Should all games include an easy mode?

[Meg]

With the popularity of the Souls series and games like it, I got thinking. A lot of fans of those games will argue that having an easy mode would undermine the experience of those games. However, including an easy mode would also make it possible for a lot more gamers to play it and enjoy it: as well as actually finish it. So do you think all games should include an easy mode? Or would a game designed with a harder difficulty in mind be harmed by the inclusion of an easy mode? Basically should games strive to be as accessible to as many people as possible, or should the integrity of the designers' vision for the game come first and foremost, even if that means some people won't be able to play it?

There's a lot I can say about this, but I want to give other people the chance to respond first before posting my own thoughts.

What do you guys think? :happy:

 

[Lain]

If the developers don't want casuals to play their games then fine, it's their loss.

But as I've gotten older, I seem to have less and less time to play video games. I just can't spend entire afternoons grinding in a RPG anymore. So I do appreciate a "Easy Mode" that allows me to experience the entire game quicker, even if at the cost of a lower difficulty.

 

[xMobilemux]

I can't remember the last time I played Easy mode because a lot of games today are so easy that I just jump straight to hard mode in order to get a decent experience, either that or I'm just getting damn good.

When I first played Witcher 3 I started on the 2nd highest difficulty and it was a good decision because despite me failing to kill that first Griffin dozens of times, it felt oh so rewarding to finally kill it.
Ever since I've been playing Witcher 3 exclusively on the highest Death March mode.
Doing so actually allows all the features of the game to come into effect more often and delivers a far better experience because you're playing the game to it's fullest and using everything at your disposal.
If someone just wants to stroll through the game to experience the story then that's what Youtube is for.

In regards to the Souls series I can't really say because I've never played the Souls games, they just don't interest me, but I have played Nioh and yeah the difficulty is a key and famous part of the game, the feeling of overcoming the battles after dozens of retries is just so rewarding.

I think games that offer intense but fair difficulty are just far better experiences and that's why Dark Souls and Nioh have been so well received, gamers these days hate having their hand held and being treated like a casual and putting an easy mode in something like Dark Souls which is designed to be beaten rather than played kinda defeats the purpose.

I do support the Easy modes where the game mocks the player for playing on Easy though.

 

[WolfOD64]

The Fire Emblem series, a tactical-RPG franchise RENOWNED for its historic and still very-much-alive difficulty and ruthless permadeath system....now has the option for Casual mode. This is, however, 100% optional, and has not hindered the emphasis on strategy, the brutal nature of higher difficulties, or the interest of long-time fans like myself. All it has done is allowed newer gamers into the franchise who just want to play the game and experience the story without being anatomically-rearranged by the difficulty of the game.

That is why I can tolerate easy modes in games, because it doesn't rob players looking for a challenge. There is something far, far worse than an easy mode or difficulty...the casualization and streamlining of a game's mechanics, so that it's a departure of difficulty in EVERY sense, meaning that EVERY difficulty plays the same and suffers the same downgrade in complexity.

This is the difference between a Fire Emblem game, and a mechanically-stripped nightmare like Hitman: Absolution or even DmC: Devil May Cry. Every gamer, regardless of skill or challenge-seeking, is wrangled into a downgraded dumbification of a game that will play like a cakewalk on EVERY difficulty.

 

[berto]

No. If the developers make a game with no easy mode, or a difficulty setting to begin with, that is up to them. If part of what makes your game what it is is important to you as a developer why should you have to change it?
Hey, your game is too Japanese or too weird, you should make it more western friendly to reach the casual audience, or what? Not interested in money?
Fact of the matter is if you start to change what makes your game what it is just to sell more copies then you'll lose the aspect of it that made it what it was. Souls games were made to be hard, that's part of the experience; without that, let's be honest, they just wouldn't be the same, nor would they be memorable.
I do understand what Izzy is saying about difficulty and how little time you have once you're older. I've been playing Persona 5 almost exclusively since it's release and I just barely beat it the other day. 100 hours in almost 2 months, it was a bitch to stay away from spoilers when it took other people less than 3 weeks to do the same but still, I wouldn't demand that they make the game shorter. If the game's worth it you'll put the time in.

The reason I'm so adamant about this is because if you start adopting a policy of only developing casual friendly games you will never again make anything unique. Without a drive to make unique games you'd never have titles that are memorable. You'd never make the Souls games or Resident Evil and, by extension, Devil May Cry, Rez, Gravity Rush or anything indi.
One of my favorite games, Shadows of the Damned, went through 4 or 5 different concept stages. Originally it was going to be based on the drawings and writings of Franz Kafka and it was going to have mechanics based on light and darkness shifting the world. That sounds brilliant and unique, creative as all hell, but EA told them to change that and every concept that came after. They said that that sounds too weird for American players, that they wouldn't get it. To change it to a simple premise, one based on one of the 7 basic western archetype plots and that in the US your concept had to be so simple you could pitch it in the length on an elevator ride and that's how games and movies were made in America. Basically the equivalent of saying, 'omg, that is, like, so weird? I don't get it, couldn't you make it, like, something more simple? Yeah?'
That is what I think about everytime someone makes a video or write an article where they want to remove something that they don't like from a games and the worse part is that it comes up more often than you think. It's not just demanding that they make Souls games easy. Jim Sterling, for example, once made a video about how the problem with Square Enix was their character design as made clearly obvious with their release of a limited time Batman figure design by FF artist, Nemura, therefore they should stop and become more streamlined and 'normal.' It's why no one was buying their games.
If you don't like it don't play it, that's a perfectly ok thing to do, it is your money, do with it what you will. If there is something fundamentally wrong with the game, something that makes it less than it could be, like a garbage cover mechanic, or a terrible story you have every right to point it out, too, but if the developers have it as something crucial and a rudimentary aspect of the game, something that is part of what defines it, like Dante's red coat or the gothic horror setting in Devil May Cry or the unique stages of Alice, and someone wants it changed because they don't like it or it would make it more casual friendly then they are asking to remove a fundamental aspect of the game. I could go on but I'm getting preachy.

 

[Viper]

@berto
There is a difference between changing the story and design to suit uneducated masses (which remain uneducated thanks to this vicious cycle), and creating an additional mode for those that don't have either time or skills to grind difficult games. In another world I would have agreed that one should do with their game whatever they want, but facts are that games cost a lot to produce and it would be a wise decision from economic standpoint to make it more accessible to majority of the everyone and their mother that plays games these days but are not mad combo masters that can finish a game in a week and still not abandon real life.
If you don't get your game loved by many, chances are you won't be making that many games, at least not AAA titles everyone drools over.

 

[berto]

If you don't get your game loved by many, chances are you won't be making that many games, at least not AAA titles everyone drools over.

And yet the game is loved by many. Souls game have become tremendously popular because of unique creatures, excellent stage design, beautiful architecture and a relentless difficulty, not despite of it. In fact if they weren't popular we wouldn't even be having this discussion, it be some random niche game no one plays because it's too hard. Without that challenge there wouldn't be that sense of reward and accomplishment and it wouldn't have gotten popular.

Again, removing a fundamental part of the game would've taken away from what it is, from what makes it it. A huge part of the souls game is their difficulty, it's what they're known for. Take that away and it's no longer the same game. You no longer have to memorize enemy patterns, save your health, practice your timing. Now you just spam the one attack that works on everything.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Thinking about it, Souls games have a kind of easy mode. Simply summon a few friends to help you out. Doesn't really change much on how much damage the enemies do to you though. That's how I play these games these days, mostly because I enjoy coop experiences a lot though.

I don't mind the easy mode option, as long as the rest of the game does not suffer from it, I actually changed Persona 5 to easy because I want to experience the story first and foremost on my first playthrough. I hit a wall near the end of the first dungeon, and there was no way around it, since I did not want to replay everything up till then (I really planned my runs through the dungeons poorly).

Weirdly enough, most games nowdays tend to be really easy, which is partly due to my/our experience as gamers and controls that are streamlined. Good controls make half the game really. I stopped counting on how often I died in the souls games because the game didn't pick up the jump command. Why not have a friggin jump button if you have mandatory platforming?
It's something I realized when going back to some ps2 games, the control schemes really felt clunky a lot of the time. Nowdays that's mostly no problem (unless we're talking assassins creed, where the control is taken from you most of the time) but I feel like games have for the most part not evolved accordingly.

 

[Viper]

@berto
It's loved by many for the design and the lore, the difficulty as the barrier that turns many new players away has been addressed by both critics and the director himself, meaning it ain't all fine and dandy as you claim.

I love easy setting, it's a training mode before I tackle game for real. Can't help it if my reflexes have limits and need to be woken up, I still want to game from time to time.

 

[Angel]

As someone who enjoys games but is unbelievably dreadful at them, I appreciate the inclusion of an easy or novice mode. It makes a game more appealing to me and less elitist; it allows everyone to join in and experience the fun. Even the Golden Tanooki outfit in Super Mario 3D World is a nice addition to a game that some players (usually younger ones) can indulge in without wrecking the gameplay for others.

That said, some games don't suit an easy mode. Part of the experience can be the almost soul-destroying challenge of getting past "that" level or "that" boss. That sense of achievement when you finally complete an area (or indeed the whole game) after months and months of cursing everyone and anyone even remotely connected to the game.

To put an easy mode in some games is akin to allowing someone to drive around an obstacle course and still get the same accolade as someone who has struggled through the whole thing legitimately.

I do believe that making games accessible is important so that the business itself can remain viable; after all, making every game nigh-on impossible for anyone other than the most hardcore players would reduce the market considerably. On the other side of that, there are many many casual games out there across a wide variety of platforms that can appeal to anyone, regardless of ability. And there are some games still that don't even require a difficulty because of their inherent design.

I appreciate an easy mode personally because it means I can join in the fun too. But I also appreciate that if a designer has a certain gameplay in mind then they should be able to pursue that, even if it means that certain players won't be able to get stuck in too (unless they really want to). I'm not a fan of all-inclusiveness as a general rule in life anyway. It has the right ideas on paper but in reality it is not feasible in all cases and can lead to friction.

tl;dr: I use godmode almost exclusively theses days so it doesn't really apply to me ololololol

 

[Shadow]

I think all games should include an easy mode. I know a lot of gamers have problems with people playing on easy, but y'know what? If you don't like easy mode, you don't have to play it. Complain about people being casuals or whatever, but some people don't have time or the skills or maybe they even have health problems that make playing some of these games really hard for them even if they enjoy the games. Why should they be punished because "oh, real gamers don't play on easy mode"? Do you like games? Do you spend time gaming? Do you get excited when a new game comes out? Congratulations, you're a real gamer. You are no longer a construct of someone else's imagination. Fancy that. Anyway, yeah. Let people have an easy mode if they need it.

 

[Innsmouth]

Fun fact is that Souls games aren't as hard people making it out to be. Patience is main point of the game. You need to explore and strategise and think about your approach toward problem. IF its removed by easy mode, it makes game simply pointless. Not all games need easy mode. Games are interactive experience and they stop to be that when game reduced to "hold/mash button to win". If people don't want to invest in games, they shouldn't complain imho.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Thinking about it, I really think some games should make their higher difficulties available right from the start (looking at you Devil May Cry series....). That way more people can enjoy the difficulties they wish to play, the way they wish to play.
I never got why you needed to play through some games like 3 times just to unlock the highest difficulty...

 

[Meg]

I personally think that games as a whole would only benefit from including easy modes. Mainly because more people would be able to experience the game. New people are getting into games all the time and these people simply aren't going to have the skills to play a lot of games. I love the original Dark Souls. It's my favorite game ever. And while yes the difficulty can create some really awesome moments, the part that I enjoy most is the exploration. And that's the thing. Even with an easy mode, the lore, exploration, and design would all still be there. And honestly, saying the removal of DS-like games' difficulty would remove the purpose of the game is kinda insulting. A poorly designed game doesn't become better with a harder difficulty; it becomes worse. Difficulty doesn't automatically make a game good, and saying a game would be made worse with a lower level of challenge is to say the rest of the game isn't that good. And Dark Souls is that good.

I don't like the prevailing idea that gamers who like easier games are automatically casuals. As Shadow said, if you love games, then you're a true gamer and that's that. Everyone's different and some people really don't have the time to dedicate to super hard games. I've been playing the same JRPG for months now and I'm only maybe halfway through. The rate I'm going, it could take me until the end of the year. That means one game took me over a year to finish. I really regret not putting it on easy and the game doesn't allow you to change it so I'm stuck. I want to play Persona 5 but I don't want to tackle two of these games at a time.

It's not that I don't care enough. It's that I work a full time job and have various other responsibilities. I'll never play Dark Souls 3 (even though I would like to) simply because I don't have the time to get good. And all my friends play on PC instead of PS4 so I wouldn't be able to just play with them to make it easier. If it had an easy mode, I would have run out to buy it. But it doesn't. So oh well I guess.

And that's the kind of attitude a lot of people have. Either they don't have the skills yet or they don't have the time. Neither means you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy a game. And frankly, how another person chooses to experience a game is no one else's business. Their experience playing the game is not yours and you can still play the game the way you want to play it. The more people who get to enjoy games the better. :smile:

 

[berto]

Well, I stand by my position. Altering something fundamental to the game's changes it fundamentally. Argue all you want that a Souls game's difficulty isn't important to it's core, it doesn't change the fact that it is, ask anyone who loves those games or started to play them and didn't stop. It's not a matter of elitism, it's a matter of altering the very essence of the game, not issues like glitches or poor design. I've never played any of the main Souls game, not my cup of tea, but I've 100% Bloodborne and it took me forever, and it's not like I could play it for days on end, I just played it the few hours that I could when I could. Muscle memory and patience. I'm not as good as other players, it took me a long time to get to every boss and I even cheated by looking up strategies online, but I do know that a huge part of the games are how hard they are, how much they demand from their players. That is part of what they are.

I'll go back to my previous example, Persona 5 took me 100 hours and those 100 hours took me 2 months. The game is long, that is part of what it is, it's huge, time consuming, story. I know others, it seems, beat it in 60, but weren't going for all the side stuff. Anyway, I'm not going to demand that Atlus make their future games 8 hours long, or ask that Square limit any possible future NieR games to a single ending, or change Final Fantasy games to not require any grinding, or making action games have a single attack button, or demanding that all horror games not be scary so that everyone can enjoy them, not just horror fans.

Bottom line, I'm sorry, I don't agree.

 

[Meg]

Well, I stand by my position. Altering something fundamental to the game's changes it fundamentally. Argue all you want that a Souls game's difficulty isn't important to it's core, it doesn't change the fact that it is, ask anyone who loves those games or started to play them and didn't stop.

I love the games. The original Dark Souls is my favorite game. Put about 200 hours into it, beat NG+ several times with different characters. As a huge fan of the game, I'm telling you that the difficulty isn't such an integral part of the game that it can't be enjoyed without it. And as someone who admits to never playing Dark Souls, it feels weird that you would try to convince me, an actual fan, otherwise.

And I'm not saying games should be made shorter. I never said we need to completely alter games. Rather it would be great it all games offered an alternative way of playing them.

I'm going to change my original question a bit and ask everyone who is against all games having easy modes a simple question: why does it matter to you how other people play a game? Your experience isn't being impacted at all, so what does it matter to you if other people play an otherwise hard game on easy?

 

[berto]

And as someone who admits to never playing it, it feels weird that you would try to convince me, an actual fan, otherwise.

Is Bloodborne really so incredibly different to Souls that my experience is irrelevant? Like I said, I've Platinumed Bloodborne. Does that not give me enough credibility to have my two cents taken seriously.

 

[Meg]

Is Bloodborne really so incredibly different to Souls that my experience is irrelevant? Like I said, I've Platinumed Bloodborne. Does that not give me enough credibility to have my two cents taken seriously.

Well you did kinda do the same thing to me. I said DS was my favorite game ever and then you responded by saying to ask any fan of the games and they'd tell me you were right. As if....I didn't just say.....I was a fan myself??

So no, I didn't intentionally try to write off your experiences as invalid. And if that's how it came off, then I apologize. Rather I was just really confused because it came off as you saying my experiences playing a game I love were invalid/wrong when you didn't even play it yourself. Not saying you don't love Bloodborne, but I was talking about Dark Souls specifically, so saying I was wrong about a game I love and you didn't play came off as very ????? to me. That's all I was trying to say. Hope it makes sense!

tl;dr

I had a knee jerk reaction.

 

[berto]

Well you did kinda do the same thing to me. I said DS was my favorite game ever and then you responded by saying to ask any fan of the games and they'd tell me you were right. As if....I didn't just say.....I was a fan myself??

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Fair enough.

 

[Angel]

I'm going to change my original question a bit and ask everyone who is against all games having easy modes a simple question: why does it matter to you how other people play a game? Your experience isn't being impacted at all, so what does it matter to you if other people play an otherwise hard game on easy?

Doesn't matter to me one splat. If a game has it in there, brilliant. If not, it's unlikely I'll try it unless I can cheat horrendously.

Maybe some people feel that to play on easy is to miss out or not get the full experience? Way I see it is, easy mode in the games I play tends to have the same gameplay only just not as tough to beat. I don't know whether that happens with other games but seeing as I almost exclusively play sandbox RPGs, I don't see the issue personally.