Questions About Rebellion

[Gel]

DMC story says Force Edge was forged, Yamato was forged but nothing was said about Rebellion, probably was forged too.
Now if they were forged for Sparda and his sons can use them because they share his blood and soul, I don't know

 

[Morgan]

This pretty much implies that somewhere, Yamato was literally smithed, and not formed from the soul of a demon. Rebellion would probably have a similar origin. Just because nearly every weapon we see was created from the soul of a demon doesn't meant they all were - Pandora certainly wasn't, nor Artemis or Nightmare β. For something with as much power as the Yamato, the demon to possess such a soul probably would not have ever suffered such a fate for it to become a Devil Arm.

Who says the Yamato needed to be defeated? Sparda fought with a sword that had his own name on it, so he forged it while he was still alive without having suffered a defeat. When he died (I guess now that's if he died, thanks to Capcom), the rest of his soul probably went into it. A hypothetical Devil Yamato could have made his own blade while he was still alive, then eventually died through unknown means and become "whole" again. The idea that it was smithed and not formed from a devil still raises the question; how does one just make a Devil Arm with as much power as the Yamato, with no will of its own, second in power only to Sparda who was a living demon? Why does Yamato need to have been "just forged" to avoid the typical fate of other Devil Arms while Sparda not only made his own Arm, but died anyway? Canonically speaking, not a lot of devils would be able to defeat him, less so in the human world where powerful overlord devils showed up rarely.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

You're implying that a weapon smithed still needs a soul in the first place, and isn't simply just an immensely powerful magical artifact.

 

[Morgan]

Well, yes. And you're implying that one can simply make an immensely powerful, 'soulless' (it's described as 'having a will', though?) magical artifact that's second in power to an actual living devil, when other forged and 'soulless' artifacts (Pandora, Nightmare Beta, and Artemis) are not that powerful in comparison. You're implying that a weapon could only avoid the "typical fate" of other weapons by being forged as-is because of its immense power, when the only being stronger than it not only made a Devil Arm while alive, they still died despite their more-immense power.

Is there any reason the Yamato is this special aside from author fiat? Because I'm sure if it didn't exist in the canon at all and someone wrote this in a fanfic with these exact specifications (no soul, classified as a Devil Arm despite not being a Devil, super duper powerful second only to the Sparda, mysteriously connected to all of the men in that family line, and highly coveted) it'd be the Mary Sue of Devil Arms and people would be crying that it shouldn't exist. So is there a reason the Yamato exists the way it does and people should accept that?

 

[Goldsickle]

The way Dante "extracts" Pandora is the same as when Dante extracts the soul of Cerberus and Vergil extracting the soul of Beowulf.

Only in this case, Pandora is already in soul form, used to power up a mini demon's gate.

Because of this, I believe that Pandora is once a demon, died and became a Devil Arm, obtained by the Order and converted back to its soul for to power up the gate in Fortuna Castle.

 

[Gel]

The way Dante "extracts" Pandora is the same as when Dante extracts the soul of Cerberus and Vergil extracting the soul of Beowulf.

Only in this case, Pandora is already in soul form, used to power up a mini demon's gate.

Because of this, I believe that Pandora is once a demon, died and became a Devil Arm, obtained by the Order and converted back to its soul for to power up the gate in Fortuna Castle.

Pandora belonged to Dante, Trish stole it from him and gave to the order.

 

[Goldsickle]

Pandora belonged to Dante, Trish stole it from him and gave to the order.

Wait, where does it say that? =0

In the cutscene at the end of Mission 12, Lady mentioned about how The Order is collecting Devil Arms, so I thought Pandora is just one of the Devil Arms they've gathered?

 

[Gel]

In the novel( that Capcom endorsed and said officially to be the complete version of DMC4) it is said Dante usually sells his DA, but keeps others just in case of needing money.Trish, not only decides to take Sparda( which belongs to Dante, after all) but Pandora, Gilgamesh, Lucifer with her and gave them to the Order.
The Order already had some, but not so powerful, so most of the demons you see in game came out from the gates activated by Dante's DA.

 

[Gel]

@tehrugger,
First DMC4 official site endorses it, second Gregaman said in his twitter time ago( some days before DMC4SE release that canon " nerds" ( not really nerds, but a word similar) would recognize details in Vergil's cutscenes. In game is NEVER said Vergil was in Fortuna or that he was related to Nero, but in the novel that is said clearly.
In novel says Trish helps to protect the citizens, in game she does absolutely nothing.
To be honest even games contradict each other, so in game canon doesn't work either
Anyway I was replying to @Goldsickle. It is up to him if he accepts it or not. He decides what to do with it.

 

[Foxtrot94]

And if the "canon" novel really states clearly that Nero is related to Vergil, I guess the fan speculation should stop, shouldn't it?

Little off-topic here: it's already stopped. The English release of the 3142 artbook erased all doubts.

 

[Gel]

We knew he visited Fortuna in novel, now DMC4Se confirms that too: same with Lady's presence and Nero's parentage

We don't see her do anything, but that doesn't mean she does nothing. Trish even tells Dante she'll evacuate the people. I'm assuming she does.

You can't accordingly to your in game canon, since nowhere in game is said so.

-__-......So Vergil's visit to Fortuna wasn't mentioned the game. So what? We still know he visited Fortuna from the DMC4:SE. And I doubt the novel had anything to do with Capcom making that. And if the "canon" novel really states clearly that Nero is related to Vergil, I guess the fan speculation should stop, shouldn't it?



We don't see her do anything, but that doesn't mean she does nothing. Trish even tells Dante she'll evacuate the people. I'm assuming she does.

Ah, forget it. If you want to think the novel is canon, go ahead. But I hope you acknowledge that you're in the minority.

Years ago, I would.Now I'm no more in minority.
Morihashi is still the writer of DMC4SE.

 

[Goldsickle]

It is up to him if he accepts it or not. He decides what to do with it.

Sorry for not posting any confirmation.

It's not about whether I accept it or not but I don't know how to make use of the data for my story idea.

Thanks for the info, though.

 

[Foxtrot94]

You can't accordingly to your in game canon, since nowhere in game is said so.

That applies to you too though. Since the game doesn't show it, you can't know she didn't do anything either.

However, the city is clear of people during the battle with the Savior, so it's only logic to conclude that she did evacuate the people.

It's a background thing that wasn't shown, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Gel]

That applies to you too though. Since the game doesn't show it, you can't know she didn't do anything either.

Exactly!

However, the city is clear of people during the battle with the Savior, so it's only logic to conclude that she did evacuate the people.

BUT the city was already clear before she said so.

 

[Foxtrot94]

BUT the city was already clear before she said so.

No, it wasn't. She offers to evacuate the people just after the Savior's awakening following Nero's absorbtion. After that, we get the scene where the demons overrun the city and massacre the citizens. She reaches the city after that, and it's empty when Dante finally gets there after destroying the Hell Gates.

 

[Gel]

After that, we get the scene where the demons overrun the city and massacre the citizens

I don't remember the scene that way, but it could be my fault.But it's even better: first they are massacred , only later she helps them.

 

[Foxtrot94]

But it's even better: first they are massacred , only later she helps them.

Gel. The massacre was happening pretty much while she was talking to Dante about going evacuating them. I get she's a demon, but she can't be in two places at the same time. She still needs time to get from one spot to another. The Savior, being enormous and being able to fly, had a pretty big advantage, as he can sure as hell cover a much greater distance than her, and faster.

 

[Gel]

Gel. The massacre was happening pretty much while she was talking to Dante about going evacuating them. I get she's a demon, but she can't be in two places at the same time.

No, I was remembering how guilty she was of that fact, since she made everything going out of proportions. A lot of those people wouldn't be killed if those DA weren't give to the Order.

Edit: Going back to the question:
DMC1 gives Sparda as certainly dead, DMC3 says he disappeared or even Vergil, in some places he is dead, in other places his status is unknown. In games are not trustful either.
As much they are the first source of information, other media is secondary to them.

 

[Foxtrot94]

No, I was remembering how guilty she was of that fact, since she made everything going out of proportions. A lot of those people wouldn't be killed if those DA weren't give to the Order.

Ah, that. I misunderstood then. Apologies.

 

[Gel]

Gel. The massacre was happening pretty much while she was talking to Dante about going evacuating them. I get she's a demon, but she can't be in two places at the same time. She still needs time to get from one spot to another. The Savior, being enormous and being able to fly, had a pretty big advantage, as he can sure as hell cover a much greater distance than her, and faster.

No, Foxy, a friend confirmed with me I was right after all:
"Just after Dante destroys the main hellgate in the city, Trish joins him and then asks him if he needs company. He replies that she should help the others and get them as far away from here as possible. Then she walks away. The city looks empty throughout the scene, and the big fight with Savior starts immediately after, so it's only implied she helped citizens after that point."
The city was already empty.