Questions About Rebellion

[Goldsickle]

1. Where did the Rebellion come from? A lot of Devil Arms are formed from the souls of defeated demons but what about the Rebellion?

2. How long has Dante kept the Rebellion?

 

[LuciferHades]

1. We know Sparda was the original owner of Rebellion, but we don't know if he made the sword himself or if he obtained it after defeating a demon. Probably the former.

2. It hasn't been specified when exactly Dante was given Rebellion, but we know he has had it since he was teenager. Probably even before that.

I also think the same

 

[Goldsickle]

Thanks for the quick answers.

Another question I have:

3. What happened to Nero and the Order Of The Sword after DMC4? Is The Order still intact after the incident in the game and did Nero stick around? Whatever happened to the members of The Order that went through the Ascension Ceremony?

 

[Gel]

1. Where did the Rebellion come from? A lot of Devil Arms are formed from the souls of defeated demons but what about the Rebellion?

2. How long has Dante kept the Rebellion?

1-Papa asked it to be forged.I think it was after he knew he would fathered twins.

2-Maybe Mama gave it to him when she gave him the amulet.

Thanks for the quick answers.

Another question I have:

3. What happened to Nero and the Order Of The Sword after DMC4? Is The Order still intact after the incident in the game and did Nero stick around? Whatever happened to the members of The Order that went through the Ascension Ceremony?

Nero lives with Kyrie in a rented apartment. He is a demon hunter, she cooks for the poor( according to novel).
Novel says too some people still believe Order of Sword was a good thing, so must be some remnants of it there.

 

[Goldsickle]

1-Papa asked it to be forged.I think it was after he knew he would fathered twins.

In the games, all Devil Arms are from souls of demons.

Dante & Vergil would extract the souls from defeated demons and they would manifest as weapons.
Is there anything in the data or novels that talks about Rebellion being created via the same process or was it done differently and called a 'Devil Arm', regardless of how they were created?

 

[Gel]

Dante & Vergil would extract the souls from defeated demons and they would manifest as weapons.
Is there anything in the data or novels that talks about Rebellion being created via the same process or was it done differently and called a 'Devil Arm', regardless of how they were created?

For what we know until know, nor Yamato nor Rebellion were demons before. Yamato, as much, was animated by Sparda's soul and Rebellion was a manifestation of Dante's soul.
But I remember read something about these swords.I have to check it out again.

 

[Goldsickle]

For what we know until know, nor Yamato nor Rebellion were demons before. Yamato, as much, was animated by Sparda's soul and Rebellion was a manifestation of Dante's soul.
But I remember read something about these swords.I have to check it out again.

Thanks, I was going to specifically ask for people to reply with official data but I didn't want to sound picky =0

 

[Morgan]

@Gel you have no proof that Yamato was animated by Sparda's soul. All it is is a sword with the power to divide and wipe out the darkness.

 

[Gel]

Ok, some information here:
"The following is info on Yamato found in DMC1:

Devil May Cry, Devil Arms — 閻魔刀: Yamato: "It's the legendary sword wielded by Sparda. It is said that it has the will and the power to divide and wipe out the darkness."

From DMC3:

Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, Devil Arms File — Yamato: "A memento from Vergil’s father. This samurai-esque sword’s blade is said to cut through anything."

DMC4:

Devil May Cry 4, Nero's Arms File — Yamato: "A sword imbued with tremendous magic, it unleashes the latent power within Nero."
Combat adjudicator from DMC3 reveals that Yamato is dark-forged weapon.

It's name has a double reference:

The "Enma" within Enma Katana (閻魔刀 Enmatou?) reference "Enma-O", the Japanese name for the Hindu judge of the afterlife, "Yama", so that the Devil Arm's name is idiomatically read in the same manner as Yamato (大和?), a Japanese term referring to the people and traditional nationalistic spirit of Japan.

"DMC3 claims it was a memento from Sparda and Dante's blood awakened its true power, while DMC4 ads onto it that its a large magical blade that is a manifestation of Dante's power."

@Gel you have no proof that Yamato was animated by Sparda's soul. All it is is a sword with the power to divide and wipe out the darkness.

In this case you might be right. As much it brings out the power latent in Sparda.

*Thank you, friend*

 

[Goldsickle]

Thanks for more info.

I was also wondering whatever happened to all the Devil Arms Dante collects in his adventures.
I read somewhere that he sold them to pay off his debts.

 

[Morgan]

@Gel *You're welcome.* That said, the Weapon File doesn't discount it being its own weapon, and possibly a devil. It gives Vergil (and the specter behind Nero) a sheath on his left arm, a quality lacking in the actual Sparda sword and his devil form, and the Devil Bringer's scales match the design of the hilt. That doesn't have Sparda's direct influence (unless the Yamato is "a Sparda" but that's headcanon territory). Sparda sealed Hellgates with it and his blood, but it's not from him the same way his own Sparda sword is, or how Cerberus is made from Cerberus, etc.

To answer the topic, not even Capcom can figure out what Rebellion is.

It made its debut in DMC2, where it was described as:
Devil May Cry 2, Weapon File — Rebellion: "A standard sword for Dante." As unremarkable as the Merciless or the Vendetta.

Then DMC3 showed up and retconned its position (replacing the Force Edge) as:
Devil May Cry 3, Code: 1 — Dante, Dante's Weapons — Rebellion: "A keepsake sword from his father. Its name means "resistance." The game adds "This magic blade's true power hasn't fully awakened"/"Dante's blood has awakened the blade's true power."

In comes DMC4 and:
Devil May Cry 4, Dante's Arms File — Rebellion: "A memento given to Dante by his father, this large magical blade is the physical manifestation of Dante’s power."

So it's somehow a physical manifestation of Dante's soul/power, but it was held by his father previously. Sparda had his son's soul? And then it just becomes a standard sword in the future?

That and Devil Arms are usually named directly after the devil that possessed the soul. Cerberus was named after Cerberus, Nevan was named after Nevan, Vergil pulled the Beowulf out of Beowulf, Sparda "wield[ed] a sword that bore his own name", and while we don't see Alastor and Ifrit's forms as their own, they look markedly different from each other when Dante uses their Devil Triggers in DMC1 and neither of them resemble the Sparda DT from the second-to-last mission. Dante has no reason to make himself look like a spiked cyclops just because he's wielding fire gauntlets, so that's Ifrit's real form, and Alastor's is Alastor's. That said, if Rebellion were the equivalent of Dante's personal DA and a manifestation of his soul specifically (as opposed to literally anything else, like a demon that Sparda stripped of its true name, renamed Rebellion, and bound to his blood), it should probably have his name on it for consistency's sake but it doesn't and Capcom won't get around to explaining it.

Not all Devils turn into Devil Arms, but if it is a Devil Arm, then there's a really good chance it was a Devil beforehand. That's how the series shows it.

@Goldsickle He doesn't sell them. The DMC Anime Drama CD featured him summoning Alastor to subdue a possessed Lady, using Cerberus to deflect her bullets, and Patty and Enzo converse with Agni and Rudra. So he keeps those weapons in a room somewhere to summon whenever he needs them. Then the DMC4 novel has Gilgamesh, Lucifer, and Pandora as weapons he had before the game even started, so he didn't sell those either and he doesn't have a debt in that game anymore (Lady pays them for the mission).

 

[Gel]

So it's somehow a physical manifestation of Dante's soul/power, but it was held by his father previously. Sparda had his son's soul? And then it just becomes a standard sword in the future?

Good question, as Dante proclaimed he and his brother shared Sparda's soul. If soul is something literal or just an allegory, like talking about their beliefs or whatever.

He doesn't sell them. The DMC Anime Drama CD featured him summoning Alastor to subdue a possessed Lady, using Cerberus to deflect her bullets, and Patty and Enzo converse with Agni and Rudra. So he keeps those weapons in a room somewhere to summon whenever he needs them. Then the DMC4 novel has Gilgamesh, Lucifer, and Pandora as weapons he had before the game even started, so he didn't sell those either and he doesn't have a debt in that game anymore (Lady pays them for the mission).

He sells them when he needs money, it is said so in DMC4 novel and the same was said about this subject in CD drama. The only DA he is really attached are the ones related to his family( take with a grain of salt this part, since we all know what Trish have done to Sparda and he gave a damn about it).

 

[Gel]

That's a question no one can give you a real answer to, unless we find out in DMC5(if it's ever even made). And people should stop bringing up the DMC4 novel and stick to tier 1 canon.

As for what happens to the Devil Arms Dante collects during missions, that's also something we cannot know. Unless the drama CD is canon. If it is, then we know that Dante keeps at least some of his weapons and stores them somewhere in his shop. Selling them is not something I think a guy like Dante would do. Devil Arms are too dangerous to just be sold to anybody willing to pay.

Just a question: Are we talking about the same Dante?

 

[Goldsickle]

To answer the topic, not even Capcom can figure out what Rebellion is.

It kinda came out of nowhere.

I did mention despite how much people dislike DMC2, they can't deny that it left a mark in the series, in the form of the Rebellion.
Development-wise, maybe it's just a "standard sword" for Dante to use for the shallow weapon-changing mechanics.

From there, they decided to elaborate more on the weapon and before we know it, it's a part of Dante's family heritage or something.
I wonder what Hideki Kamiya would think about that.


The reason I'm asking all the questions is because I have some wild ideas for a DMC fan comic and needed getting some facts straight.

For all you know, this will be just an all-talk daydream where I didn't do anything in the end but I guess I should gather some data while I still have some motivation.

 

[V's patron]

To explain the discrepancy between DMC2's description of Rebellion and DMC3's description, it would be because they had different writers. Rebellion probably wasn't intended to be this lynchpin of the lore when DMC2 was being made as Rebellion wasn't even in DMC1 (right ?) so it was just a rank and file sword.

Either the writer for DMC3 retconned Rebellion from an ordinary sword to an heirloom of Sparda or just made a new sword to fill this purpose and reused the name/design because he liked it (probably the latter).

So as of DMC4 its an heirloom of Sparda but we don't know how it was passed down to Dante (was it made for him specifically or was it something Sparda already had?).

 

[Gel]

I wonder what Hideki Kamiya would think about that.

As much he would answer:
"I only made DMC1, the other DMC games are not mine" .If he is annoyed he just block you. but, to be honest he wasn't too worried that those novels contradicted his own game, so I wouldn't if he doesn't care about this either.

Rebellion wasn't even in DMC1 (right ?)

It was Force Edge.

 

[Morgan]

That's a question no one can give you a real answer to, unless we find out in DMC5(if it's ever even made). And people should stop bringing up the DMC4 novel and stick to tier 1 canon.

As for what happens to the Devil Arms Dante collects during missions, that's also something we cannot know. Unless the drama CD is canon. If it is, then we know that Dante keeps at least some of his weapons and stores them somewhere in his shop. Selling them is not something I think a guy like Dante would do. Devil Arms are too dangerous to just be sold to anybody willing to pay.

Dante selling off his weapons is highly irresponsible. ... But then again Dante in DMC4 was "highly irresponsible" on legs, letting Trish go away with the Sparda just for a cheap promotion in the bad guy's ranks. The Drama CD at least maintains some level of continuity by referencing his past weapons, and it's not confirming the "he sells really dangerous stuff off to pay money, instead of doing better at the job he's supposed to have been working for most of his life" detail as canon.

To explain the discrepancy between DMC2's description of Rebellion and DMC3's description, it would be because they had different writers. Rebellion probably wasn't intended to be this lynchpin of the lore when DMC2 was being made as Rebellion wasn't even in DMC1 (right ?) so it was just a rank and file sword.

Either the writer for DMC3 retconned Rebellion from an ordinary sword to an heirloom of Sparda or just made a new sword to fill this purpose and reused the name/design because he liked it (probably the latter).

So as of DMC4 its an heirloom of Sparda but we don't know how it was passed down to Dante (was it made for him specifically or was it something Sparda already had?).

Rebellion wasn't in DMC1, it was Force Edge.
The writer for DMC3 retconned Rebellion from an ordinary sword. If he reused the name and design, then for all intents and purposes those are the "same sword", the same way Yamato from DMCs 1, 3, and 4 are the "same sword" despite its guard changing shape and the handle being made from different materials (octagon to oval for the guard, gold wrapping to black and white wrapping for the handle), and Dante is the "same guy" even though he bulked up and his arms are bigger than his head now or something.

 

[Gel]

Dante selling off his weapons is highly irresponsible. ... But then again Dante in DMC4 was "highly irresponsible" on legs, letting Trish go away with the Sparda just for a cheap promotion in the bad guy's ranks. The Drama CD at least maintains some level of continuity by referencing his past weapons, and it's not confirming the "he sells really dangerous stuff off to pay money, instead of doing better at the job he's supposed to have been working for most of his life" detail as canon.

This reminds me how some people still believe Dante would never kill a human being, as that was a major decision factor.

 

[Morgan]

This reminds me how some people still believe Dante would never kill a human being, as that was a major decision factor.

Technically, they're right. Dante has never killed a human being in any way that stuck.
Shot Alice in the manga? Nope, was a demon decoy.
Didn't kill Arkham in DMC3 and only said he did to antagonize Lady for no reason. Lady shot the guy in the head later (but if you removed her scene, Vergil's "dying words" line would imply they killed him, but he was using "THE TRUE POWER OF SPARDAAAA!" there so he's fair game).
No humans in DMC1, so that's out.
Didn't lay a hand on Older Patty Lowell in the anime despite her endangering a child just for an inheritance.
Shot Sanctus, Sanctus came back good as new and he turned out to be very evil and willing to use demonic power as a means to an end, so he would also be fair game if Dante had actually put him down.

So he's never killed a human being before. Sadly that doesn't stop him from letting human beings get killed because of negligence, but Capcom probably considers that splitting hairs or something.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Devil May Cry 4, Nero's Arms File — Yamato: "A sword imbued with tremendous magic, it unleashes the latent power within Nero."
Combat adjudicator from DMC3 reveals that Yamato is dark-forged weapon.

This pretty much implies that somewhere, Yamato was literally smithed, and not formed from the soul of a demon. Rebellion would probably have a similar origin. Just because nearly every weapon we see was created from the soul of a demon doesn't meant they all were - Pandora certainly wasn't, nor Artemis or Nightmare β. For something with as much power as the Yamato, the demon to possess such a soul probably would not have ever suffered such a fate for it to become a Devil Arm.