Positive Features From DmC To Be Used In DMC5 And Vice Versa

[berto]

Um, 'cause you made this big speech and ended on a typo. To be fair, I would have done the same with anyone else, regardless of who they were.

second language. so what IS the correct spelling?

 

[Stylish Nero]

It's business. when a game is too hard only a smaller batch of people will have the patience and dedication to beat it. Developers want more people to play their titles, so they make the games easier in order to get more buyers to buy their games. Yeah, it's unfair, but developers can't only think about the hardcore players. There's also the people who just want to play games to pass the time that are thought about.

But it appears that developers can't seem to just slap an easy mode on their game, and let those players play that if they just want to pass the time. Of course there's the gamers who want to climb to harder levels, but then that would be hardcore level and too much for them. So they would have to tone it down lower for those gamers and the number of gamers would grow after that.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

That hole's too small.:troll:

 

[berto]

I made a particular video, watch the harpy battle, having a regular lock on would cause issues, or it would require the game to rebalance certain things so people wouldn't abuse it by centering the camera on a target. One thing they would have to bring back is enemies hitting you off screen, etc, the reason the camera sorta moves around is to let you know an enemy is moving into your periphery so you don't get hit my cheap hits.

I very much get the feeling that you didn't read my comment. Granted, it got pretty lengthy, but you left so much for me to respond.

I don't think you'll read this ether but the lock on serves more than purposes than 'centering the camera,' but you don't seem to want to hear that. The primary purpose of a lock on is to prioritize an opponent, the camera focusing on that opponent over the rest, that is some basic combat mechanics. Abuse the lock on? are you kidding. I abused the Arbiter and Aquila to get SSS in no time, that is abuse, asking for the ability to focus on a single enemy is standard on just about all video games of this genre. What you are describing is this ultimatum that isn't reflective of what actually happens. Enemies do attack you off screen, harpies do it all the time, they're called auditory cues which is when an enemy makes a specific noise to indicate a specific attack is incoming and they happen off screen all the time. Not often enough, though, since the easiest way to win a fight with large amounts of damage inducing enemies is to keep them off screen and render them harmless till you are ready to deal with them.

Where do you get the whole 'lock-on means enemies get to hit you off screen' thing, anyway? That's a design choice that is in no way dependent of the lock on feature. Even if an enemy is locked on that doesn't automatically mean all other opponents are ejected from view. I don't want the lock on to turn the fight into a one on one, I want it to focus on the enemy I want and prioritize him as my current target and that in no way should alter the behavior of the rest of them.

Also:

What your'e asking for is a way to make the game easier,

Believe me, the last thing I want is to make this game any easier.

a way that you can just permanently isolate and center the camera on one target even if there's a giant group of enemies attacking you.

So? What's the issue?

Again, auditory cues. They would be cheap shots if there were no hints that an attack was coming but this game gives plenty a' ways to let you know something is when it's off screen, whether it be a sound or a laser pointed at you, aka, visual cues.

Go to 2 minute mark and watch. A lock on simply centers teh camera on a target, you can do this in DmC all the time with the right stick. What difference does having to hold a button to keep it centered make?

You keep saying that, you just don't want to let people have something they want and say they need. What is with you? I keep telling you that if you don't want it you don't have to use it. DmC is not the only game that has a good auto lock system, it's been done before and it's been done just as well, if not better, but this is the first time they refused a hard lock to go with it. Why are you so dead set on refusing me something I want and need? Why must it be your way or nothing? The game play wouldn't change, I still don't know where you got that from.

That better come with a Platinum trophy. That's ganna take like, I don't know, a whole effing minute to pull off!

GOD, why do the Japanese insist on making gaming so hard?

A game journalist name Michael Cromwell once said that western developers go "Look kids, you're so good at games!" while Japanese developers are more "Sorry, kids, you have to try harder if you want to be good at games."

Some would argue that if you give in to what people want you'll simply spoil them and rather than making the industry better you are harming both the player and the game. You don't do good parenting by just caving in to a child's every demand.

Others would say that not doing so would alienate the consumers and kill the industry.

It's hard to know where you stand since Video Games are such a chaotic medium. I personally always thought that the way to go is to try to make good games, that if you had a mentality of creating rather than selling you'd do well. Well, that's not always been true since a lot of games that I thought were outstanding never seemed to prosper.

 

[Demi-fiend]

second language. so what IS the correct spelling?

Choice.

 

[berto]

Choice.

a little late for that.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Comments

I'm not anti-lock on, I just don't see why having it in the first place would alleviate any of the problems you're talking about. But fine, you can continue to argue for things without mechanical purpose. If they add lock on without changing the rest of the game's mechanics then whatever I guess they can just arbitrary throw it in there so people can then complain that the lock on is broken, because the game was never designed around it in the first place.

And as for telling me about auditory cues and what not, if you watched my harpy battle in that video you'd see I don't need explanations about how that stuff works, my goal was to show that I am targeting the proper enemies when I need to in the video. The combat in DmC at least when in comes to group battles is all based around sound and timing, at any given moment you can dodge, pull, or parry an attack, the game never lets you get hit by a cheap shot. The reason you lose focus on an enemy is because at that moment you are about to be attacked by another enemy and none of your attacks can move towards the farther enemy, so the best thing to do would be to dodge, and then center your camera and isolate the enemy.

Additionally, I still think your desire to want to single out a particular enemy for an extended period of time out of a mob seems strange, you don't do that in DMC3 or DMC4, at least not that I've seen, if you can show me a video that better explains what you find so valuable about a health meter over a particular enemy in DMC3 or DMC4 I'd really appreciate it.

 

[berto]

Additionally, I still think your desire to want to single out a particular enemy for an extended period of time out of a mob seems strange, you don't do that in DMC3 or DMC4, at least not that I've seen,

What!? Yes, you do. I'll give you a very distinct example of that right now where in those game it was very much needed to single out an opponent with the aid of the hard lock, since I was just playing DMC3 a second ago and I very much used the lock on.

Stage 2, first time the Hell Wraths pop in. The second Hell wrath becomes surrounded by other enemies so if you don't have a lock on that guy the directional lock will target any of the ones that are nearest to you in the same direction first. The standard tactic for that is to get near it, lock on, move away, and shoot from afar since it reflects all melee attacks and you don't get to push him into a corner to single him out. Unless that guy is there by himself Dante will target who ever is nearest with the auto lock.

 

[OppressedWriter]

What!? Yes, you do. I'll give you a very distinct example of that right now where in those game it was very much needed to single out an opponent with the aid of the hard lock, since I was just playing DMC3 a second ago and I very much used the lock on.

Stage 2, first time the Hell Wraths pop in. The second Hell wrath becomes surrounded by other enemies so if you don't have a lock on that guy the directional lock will target any of the ones that are nearest to you in the same direction first. The standard tactic for that is to get near it, lock on, move away, and shoot from afar since it reflects all melee attacks and you don't get to push him into a corner to single him out. Unless that guy is there by himself Dante will target who ever is nearest with the auto lock.

Could you find a video to showcase something like this, not being a jerk, I really would like to see, because from here it seems like there isn't an enemy or situation like that in DmC where you would have to use lock on as a tactic because it provides you with other ways to get out of situations and keep up the heat. I guess it's fine to disagree on this point, but basically what I"m thinking is that a lock on button would make the game more frustrating for you with the way its designed, and the only way to fix that is to design the game with lock on in mind from the beginning. I mean if they kept it as is, then yeah I suppose the player would be responsible if they got hit off screen or missed an opportunity to dodge or repel an attack because they were locked on to the wrong enemy. Still, I fear that in reality very few people would admit that the system is fine and its their fault, and that in the end the complaints would come out the same, oh the lock is broken, I can never choose the right target at the last minute.

 

[berto]

Could you find a video to showcase something like this, not being a jerk, I really...

I'm going to do you a solid and I'm going to get a copy of the game. I'll try out some of the techniques you listed and tell you if I think they are sufficient replacement for a lock on.

As for the video, I'll see if I can find one later but I don't think you'll have a hard time finding one. Mission 2, DMC3. I'd guess all of the videos would have the fight.

Edit: I just read through that list of moves again, those are just standard moves. I knew all that, how was any of that meant to deterrent me from wanting a lock on?

Also, replaying this game I am reminded why I returned it to begin with. It needs a lock on, all those reasons you keep saying are why it doesn't didn't hold up for very long.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I'm going to do you a solid and I'm going to get a copy of the game. I'll try out some of the techniques you listed and tell you if I think they are sufficient replacement for a lock on.

As for the video, I'll see if I can find one later but I don't think you'll have a hard time finding one. Mission 2, DMC3. I'd guess all of the videos would have the fight.

Edit: I just read through that list of moves again, those are just standard moves. I knew all that, how was any of that meant to deterrent me from wanting a lock on?

Also, replaying this game I am reminded why I returned it to begin with. It needs a lock on, all those reasons you keep saying are why it doesn't didn't hold up for very long.

Well, what I mean is if you want to focus on a specific target, here's another thing you can do hold a gun charge either shotgun or ebony and ivory, then when you jump or dodge away dodge back in place or jump and angel boost away and keep holding the angel button and let go of your charged shot, he will bounce/gravitate back to the target you were initially focusing on.

Also, if you use calibur towards an aerial target even if you don't reach them it will lock on temporarily then you can angel pull and demon pull and it should connect to the right target.

Try using ebony and ivory and the rgiht stick to toggle targets, when dante shoots at the target you want he's locked on temporarily now you can use angel pull or demon pull and grab him. The lock on works sort of like how most people used DMC4's, where they would toggle snap to a target and then move towards them with one of the ranged moves like trickster/stinger.

Edit. Hey, I also appreciate you giving it another shot. I guess you're right I am being a bit obstinate for no damn reason. I just feel that if a feature is implemented it should be designed around it otherwise the feature will feel lackluster and be criticized for how its implemented.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

considering the camera system in Dmc would lock on not centre the camera on the target leaving you wide open from behind or other blind spots?

 

[OppressedWriter]

considering the camera system in Dmc would lock on not centre the camera on the target leaving you wide open from behind or other blind spots?

Yeah, that's what I'm worried about, I mean unless you change enemy behavior a lot of people will think the game is cheap if they are given a lock on and then use it and start getting hit all over.

I guess they could put it as a hidden option that's not default in the menus so that only advanced players would use it if they felt necessary. I mean very few of us used the different lock on types in DMC4 but options don't hurt I guess.

I think for 95% of players it would make DmC much harder if they gave you fully manual lock on, because when it was active the game's auto switch mechanic would turn off, much like it did in DMC4, lock on means you have full control, so you have to toggle to switch targets. Mainly it would be fine if you weren't in danger and wanted to just isolate targets, but if you got into the habit of holding it, then during situations with multiple enemies attacking most players would criticize lock on for doing its job, oh it never switches targets fast enough, etc.

Also, their only one real flaw I'm noticed in DmC toggle lock on system, its nearly perfect besides this little thing, for some reason the game also considers the secret area blue webs and the little destructible items around the world in the same class as enemies so it needlessly auto targets them sometimes during battle. If they remove the auto target or adjust the sensitivity that during battle they don't count that would make the smart lock system in DmC nearly perfect.

 

[berto]

I just feel that if a feature is implemented it should be designed around it otherwise the feature will feel lackluster and be criticized for how its implemented.

If you build you're combat system around a single feature then it certainly will, but if balance it with the rest of the game it should compliment everything else rather than making everything dependent on it. Like I said, Bayonetta has an equally excellent auto lock on, if not better, and it includes t a hard lock if you want. Bayonetta is where the idea for making forward forward the new stinger input without lock on.



On topic. Since playing the game again there are more things I remembered that I wouldn't be to seeing again.

One of them was the fancy camera work that goes with the last strike of the fight. That gets pretty bad ass at times. I'll check the rest of the tread before I post more, I don't like repeat things and I'm pretty sure this one didn't come up.

 

[OppressedWriter]

If you build you're combat system around a single feature then it certainly will, but if balance it with the rest of the game it should compliment everything else rather than making everything dependent on it. Like I said, Bayonetta has an equally excellent auto lock on, if not better, and it includes t a hard lock if you want. Bayonetta is where the idea for making forward forward the new stinger input without lock on.



On topic. Since playing the game again there are more things I remembered that I wouldn't be to seeing again.

One of them was the fancy camera work that goes with the last strike of the fight. That gets pretty bad ass at times. I'll check the rest of the tread before I post more, I don't like repeat things and I'm pretty sure this one didn't come up.

Oh, I know DmC takes a lot from bayonetta, the witch time mechanic etc, Damn I wish I could really have this discussion with the game in front of us, I'm still sure I could convince you in that scenario .

Also, use kablooey to mark the target, and don't detonate the bomb that way you can keep track of whichever enemy you want to keep focused on, even though I don't think that's the best idea, sometimes you want to take out groups of enemies together otherwise they deviltrigger and get much harder.

Another thing, with ebony and ivory just tap it and input a direction to see if dante shoots at the appropriate target, if he does press right stick and then demon pull angel pull stinger towards him.