Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Well..If christianity rules doesn't apply to DmC world, than that would mean, that Nephilim was just picked because it's a cool word, and there isn't much to it. Just like Succubus.
Origins of the Nephilim
- Thread starter Ronin
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Except Succubus wasn't picked for being a "cool word" 
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
It does actually. Succubi are often depicted as sexy, virile young women, when they aren't supposed to look like that at all. They come to men in their dreams looking like hot b!tches so they can take their testerone/little sailors/life force/whatever bit you subscribe to, but the reason succubi do it through dreams is because in reality they're disgusting, ugly, vaguely feminine creatures.
It's the mythological equivalent of pretending to be a sixteen-year-old girl on the internet.
It's the mythological equivalent of pretending to be a sixteen-year-old girl on the internet.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
The whole concept of Succubus is about them being seductresses, independent from their look. + It's all about having sexual intercourse with men to steal their energy, which in DmC case wouldn't be even possible. Maximum differences from humans they have in mythol0gy is that sometimes they described to have animal legs/horns. So Witcher nailed it pretty precise, unlike DmC. In DmC it does have nothing in common with succubus. It's just giant ugly larva, with word succubus slapped atop of it, so Dante could say "suck on this, succubus"
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
That's somewhat different from the mythology I grew up reading. The funny thing is that you seem to be arguing so adamantly for the mythology you've read when mythology at its core is open to a vast amount of interpretation depending on region. Did you know that the Philippines have their own version of the Minotaur? It's similar in many ways to the Greek interpretation, but also has a few differences.
And it's not like the succubus can't be entering men's dreams to steal their whatsits, we see her for all of one mission, and we've already seen one character who can astral project and affect the world from it: Kat. Stands to reason that the Succubus is doing something similar. In fact, I believe I remember one of the devs saying just that during an early stream of the game.
And it's not like the succubus can't be entering men's dreams to steal their whatsits, we see her for all of one mission, and we've already seen one character who can astral project and affect the world from it: Kat. Stands to reason that the Succubus is doing something similar. In fact, I believe I remember one of the devs saying just that during an early stream of the game.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
You literally arguing about stuff that wasn't in game in any form, and trying to make it legit. I dunno what you read, but Succubus has clear definition. It already exists and it's established, and yes there are few different forms of succubus as well (like if it's ugly old woman or pretty young demon or female with animal features), but none of them has something in common with DmC. Like incubus is all about impregnating women, succubus all about feeding on sexual desires from men. There is no way around it.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Mythology is open to interpretation in a lot of different ways, but there's nothing to say that DmC's succubus wasn't "about feeding on sexual desires from men", the absence of evidence does not equal the evidence of absence - just because we don't see her projecting some sexy young female form to do guys into death, doesn't mean that isn't what she's capable of. Plus, the devs corroborated that it is like a succubus from mythology, but she's just excruciatingly ugly in DmC's universe.
We also know that the succubus' name is "Poison" because of Word of God, despite it not being in-game.
We also know that the succubus' name is "Poison" because of Word of God, despite it not being in-game.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
As long it's not in game, it doesn't exist. Your politic about Vergil from DMC3. As such, all you do is grasping on straws and coming with non-existing fantasies. Mythology is mythology. It's gathering of mythos established over years and often having real basis, natural phenomenon's and personification of real experiences. That's why people study mythology, otherwise any person can slap any bs. on anything which would make whole mythology scholarship pointless.
DmC slapped name baseless, and you don't have a single fact to prove otherwise, since it just don't exist outside of your imagination.
DmC slapped name baseless, and you don't have a single fact to prove otherwise, since it just don't exist outside of your imagination.
LordOfDarkness
The Dark Avenger © †
@Innsmouth, @TWOxACROSS: You guys have both been making your points. But you're just going back and forth to try and see who is right or get the upper hand. It's not really a big deal or worth it, just accept each other's opinions respectively because that's a fair deal. Otherwise you're just going to be running around in circles, trying to get one back at the other.
I'd like to throw in my own input also. I decided to simply google the word and took this from Wikipedia:
A succubus is a female demon or supernatural entity in folklore (traced back to medieval legend) that appears in dreams and takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. The male counterpart is the incubus. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or even death.
In modern fictional representations, a succubus may or may not appear in dreams and is often depicted as a highly attractive seductress or enchantress; whereas, in the past, succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic.
I got two points out of that which relate to what TWOxAcross is trying to say. It states that it's usually through sexual desire, and that they aren't always attractive. Now from what I remember from the demon, she was ugly as sin. And no, perhaps she did not seduce men from sex but I am assuming that DmC's interpretation of the word was meant to imply that she controlled Virility from her own secretions (the energy drink that humans drank which was clearly addictive and used to seduce mankind into the control of demons). So here we have a female demon who is 'controlling' people's minds through a different means other than sex, but it was still through a stimulant. Now TWOxACROSS is simply trying to imply that they were probably using this definition I just gave as the means to justify her as a succubus. That's their own definition they gave, so you can't say he is wrong.
At the same time though Innsmouth, you are right. If you're just clearly sticking to what it states in Mythology, then fair enough. But most things can be changed by movie or game producers, if they think it seems fit for their story. And in this case, Ninja Theory decided to go with this prefered definition of their own.
It helps to just acknowledge each other's points and come to terms with hearing what one another is saying, instead of just going around and round like a ferris wheel. Hope this helps you come to some understanding.
I'd like to throw in my own input also. I decided to simply google the word and took this from Wikipedia:
A succubus is a female demon or supernatural entity in folklore (traced back to medieval legend) that appears in dreams and takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. The male counterpart is the incubus. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or even death.
In modern fictional representations, a succubus may or may not appear in dreams and is often depicted as a highly attractive seductress or enchantress; whereas, in the past, succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic.
I got two points out of that which relate to what TWOxAcross is trying to say. It states that it's usually through sexual desire, and that they aren't always attractive. Now from what I remember from the demon, she was ugly as sin. And no, perhaps she did not seduce men from sex but I am assuming that DmC's interpretation of the word was meant to imply that she controlled Virility from her own secretions (the energy drink that humans drank which was clearly addictive and used to seduce mankind into the control of demons). So here we have a female demon who is 'controlling' people's minds through a different means other than sex, but it was still through a stimulant. Now TWOxACROSS is simply trying to imply that they were probably using this definition I just gave as the means to justify her as a succubus. That's their own definition they gave, so you can't say he is wrong.
At the same time though Innsmouth, you are right. If you're just clearly sticking to what it states in Mythology, then fair enough. But most things can be changed by movie or game producers, if they think it seems fit for their story. And in this case, Ninja Theory decided to go with this prefered definition of their own.
It helps to just acknowledge each other's points and come to terms with hearing what one another is saying, instead of just going around and round like a ferris wheel. Hope this helps you come to some understanding.
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Half right; my "politic" was about how headcanon can't be placed up as fact. What's in the game(s) or other official sources, like canonical material and the express Word of God from the dev's themselves, count as immutable fact.
Word of advice, this is close to ad hominem; attacking the person instead of the argument. Finding a fancy way to say why I'm wrong isn't countering my points. Let's stop that, it goes no where and deviates from discussion.
Correct, mythology is mythology, but don't forget that there are many various interpretations of the same things. Elves and goblins exist all over the world, through different depictions but congruent behavior and/or names.
The people who study mythology actually account for as many interpretations as possible, as well as where and when they originate to denote their validity. Yet, even in time newer versions will be accepted as interpretations if they fit the mythos enough, to commentate on the cultural and societal changes.
LordOfDarkness up there provided some info, and DmC's interpretation of a succubus just fell out of the ugly tree hitting every branch on the way down. Then there's the Word of God from the devs that I mentioned saying that she was a succubus like in mythology. In fact, if I remember correctly, that's why it was even mentioned; someone asked why it was wasn't a sexy gal, and they said something along the lines of "in mythology, succubi are actually supposed to be ugly, but they project the image of a beautiful woman to prey on their victims, and that's what this one is portraying."
And who knows exactly what that stuff is they're extracting from her - it could be her spoils from victims she's laid with, and Virility is marketed as a drink that increases sexual prowess and attractiveness. Even the word virility means a strong sexual libido.
Artistic liberties were taken, but there's a helluva lot of validity to DmC's version of a succubus. Nephilim, on the other hand, is just a cool word they wanted to use, with only half of its definition steeped in the actual mythology.
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Anyway, I'm done. There's nothing more I can say to my point.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Which means nothing, since you provide no proof. It's not in the game, so stop pretending like it somehow relevant. I may as well say that Dante is 28 since Tameem made mistake in claiming he's "decade younger than him"
Well you started this once again, an once again you back down from your position. You should seriously stop spreading self-insert facts. It's already on the edge with lies.
Goblins are goblins. Nobody makes flying unicorns out of them and claim that since they mischievous they are goblins.
Difference is that mythos and mythology are based like I said, on personifications, experiences of past generations, social aspects and natural catastrophes. Slapping names left and right adds nothing.
They completely passed the fact that succubus is called like that because she's supposed to be sex demon. It doesn't represented in game, it doesn'T mentioned and there is nothing that points at that. It's clearly that the guy has 0 clue about mythology and just slapped it's name because they wanted to make it even more controversy, or just for fancy words. Did she projected beautiful woman image? no. Case closed.
Even more unproved fun-fiction that's not in game.
Like i said both are just slapped definition and holds as much relevance to mythology as 90% of stuff in Supernatural.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
I don't argue that they used it for game's inner story. Any game can use any name they see fit for it. But it doesn't make it relevant to actual mythology, which is what I try to explain. Soul Sacrifice took great liberties with names, but it doesn't actually follows mythology and isn't relevant to it.
I'm afraid, it wouldn't be possible, since this situation repeats time after time. I think the only way out of it is to add each other on ignore list.
LordOfDarkness
The Dark Avenger © †
I know you weren't trying to argue about that. I understand your points and you are entitled to your opinion.
Okay if you feel like that is the right thing to do (if you can't see eye to eye) then I would say do so if you think it would help. I'm not going to say do that, it is up to you. I only intervened because seeing the same points being argued back and forth kind of takes the fun out of a topic. Also it could end up getting people into trouble or even get the thread closed.
But whichever way might help your differences, I hope you both sort it out. It would be the wisest thing to do, only in my opinion.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Tbh, I think you're right, so I probably just stop there, before it drags for days to come
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Mythology is open to much interpretation and there's lots of different stories but when you get right down to the general idea of a succubus you can see where DmC fits.
Just throwing this out there, the demonic drink Virility is created by a succubus. Virility by definition is basically just manliness especially concerning things like your sex drive and libido. It's an energy drink. The ad campaign specifically promotes that stuff.
Soooooooooooo....................................
Just throwing this out there, the demonic drink Virility is created by a succubus. Virility by definition is basically just manliness especially concerning things like your sex drive and libido. It's an energy drink. The ad campaign specifically promotes that stuff.
Soooooooooooo....................................
Blue_Rose
One way to get yourself shot
Yeah personally I agree with @TWOxACROSS and the succubus being involved with Virility in a semi-sexual way. There is a possibility that she's using the "juice" she got from men over the two thousand years she's lived to put in the drink. And the ads state that sexual performance is increased by 60% ish.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Well that literally won't be possible since she's immobile. Sooo..she can't have intercourse with men. + She exists only in limbo making it once again not possible by mortal men to achieve. Aside from it, it wasn't implied in any way in game, as such it's only raw speculation without any definitive base.
Blue_Rose
One way to get yourself shot
And I was always like, "how does she have intercourse with a man when she's THAT big?"
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
that's another aspect. TBH, if they made Lilith succubus, it would have been much more fitting and made much more sense.