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Limbo and the real world

LysseC

Philosopher and fangirl. Worst. Combination. Ever.
Yep, surely all that advertising about diets and women/girls having to be thin is a demon product!
Many girls simply have a body structure that makes them not naturally thin, or at least, not as thin as those advertisements show...
And what is even stranger, all my male friends say that too thin girls like those of the advertisements don't really look attractive to them, because, they say, boys usually like girls with some flesh on their bones, because they feel... soft and pleasant to the touch...

A healthy diet, one that is balanced and includes healthy and possibly natural foods, can do wonders for one's body...
 

Mandy Cheung

Mszeta006
And one thing bothers me is about the beauty products.
The best selling beauty products are the most advertised. They cost much, but so much people just buy them just because the advertisements convinced them that work, without knowing what is inside(probably some terms create by them, that you don't understand but you feel powerful), the same works with the health supplements, advs successfully make you feel that you are borned lack of calcium and borned of too much cholesterol(I am exaggerating, but you understand) , the focus is on the emphasis of you're lacking something, but not the current food supply system or your eating habit. I have seen so many cases that the parents buy health supplements for their kids, but they are healthy actually. When buying those things, they are unsure whether those products are really beneficial to their bodies, they don't hesitate about the price level, but when we talk about buying organic or local food/products which is about sustainability and the substances which really enter the body, they become smart and care about the prices.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
Beauty product adverts are a big lie. People in those adverts have naturally long eyelashes, clear skin or pouting lips. No amount of makeup will make people look like the adverts unless they are naturally like that.

Notice how adverts now have small print saying 'effect enhanced in postproduction'. So even the models they use in beauty adverts need to be enhanced with computers because even they are not pretty enough.
 

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
I don't understand how a person could think the new DmC is about conformity. Unless they're talking about the bad-boy image, it really doesn't make sense. Dante is fighting authority, not following. Even though it's been done a lot, it's still not telling people to conform.
From the perspective of my friend, he thinks people getting this game are just brain-dead conformists and have understood the anti-DmC people. Another claims that the irony of DmC's theme applied to them not getting DmC and said Tameem is the demon. For that friend of mine (back to him), he's more on pleasing fans by their demands; he doesn't realize it would lead to repetition. And he agreed with the 'Don't fix what's not broken' claim which is also the claim of the antis, which to him seems legit. He also agreed with antis saying DmC should be named as another title and New Dante having another name instead and even called it a 'DMC ripoff'. Sadly, he would never see the light within DmC anyway. He even said that the pro-DmC people use things as an excuse, like Dante's office having lots of booze bottles. Sadly, what he researched on from them really lacked research!

Another anti said that MGR was DMC. So they rather played that. However, the irony behind this is that, much like most DMC Fans are anti-DmC, most MGS fans are anti-MGR fans having the same claims for MGR like with DmC (ex. MGR should be named something else)

Sad, isn't it?


Probably the only reason the original Dante would no longer be used is if he wasn't bringing in enough money. Then again I do remember someone saying that, with DmC crashing, there was a high chance that Capcom wouldn't continue either one. That still wouldn't stop them from bringing Dante into other games.
Then again, that will sadden many fans for having no DMC game with him and the only time he appears would be in spin-off crossover games...

My only problem with DMC1 Dante was that some of his lines were really awkward. I'm sure they weren't easy for Drew Coombs. Other than that, I'd say he was better than the versions of him after that. I did like how DMC2 Dante felt more mysterious, though. They just should have continued keeping him different, rather than turning him into so much of a cliche.
That's exactly where I'm getting at. If Capcom goes back to Old Dante, then they'd better teach that old dog some new tricks. In DMC4, Gilgamesh was nothing but a meshed up moveset between Beowulf and Ifrit. And this was one of the many signs of the old DMC dev team's laziness...

lol. Unfortunately he didn't kill anyone with a spoon. It was the main villain, Walter, that was supposed to have killed himself with a spoon. I would have loved to see one of his victims killed that way, just as an embarrassment to his victim.
And I thought that was that short film that was shown around YouTube... I understand clearly now.

I don't think Dante could give up pizza. And he really doesn't strike me as a healthy eater. He might join Gordon's cause as a way to save people, but since it has no real effect on him I don't think he'd give up the food he liked.
I might agree with you on that. However, the demons may have forced him to be open to other kinds of food... You get what I'm saying on this? But you got a point that Dante is unaffected by demon-spiked foods and beverages.

That actually reminded me of something. Couldn't the fake meat they have in stores be considered as something made by demons? I know that with veggie burgers they taste fine after the first few bites and then you don't want to eat any more. Since it's items processed to taste like meat, you really don't know what else was put into it. And with all the people obsessed with being thin, telling them these meat imitations are going to be healthier and help them lose weight would bring more people under their control.
Well. It's the demons who spiked up his favorite foods. This might've opened his mind towards other kinds of food. It's like what Phineas told Dante about opening his mind. "Different perspectives can forge new paths," says Phineas.

I swear I am never going to touch any food like that again. I can't even look at a water cooler without thinking of the virility factory.
Then we'd best be careful and take control of ourselves here... Most food and drink fads nowadays make people fat.

I'm anti-stereotype, too. Labels just ruin everything, in my opinion.
That's right; I agree. Labels are for things, not people! We are who we are!
 

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
Beauty product adverts are a big lie. People in those adverts have naturally long eyelashes, clear skin or pouting lips. No amount of makeup will make people look like the adverts unless they are naturally like that.
Not to mention such products are big hoaxes...

Notice how adverts now have small print saying 'effect enhanced in postproduction'. So even the models they use in beauty adverts need to be enhanced with computers because even they are not pretty enough.
And that's why we got image-enhancing software like Adobe Photoshop and Corel DRAW.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
And that's why we got image-enhancing software like Adobe Photoshop and Corel DRAW.
Yep, they're good for changing images, enhancing them or making people prettier.

They're also good for painting art.^_^

That's right; I agree. Labels are for things, not people! We are who we are!
Sadly it is human nature to label things and put names on them. It's what people do...it's kinda sad.
 
I don't understand how a person could think the new DmC is about conformity. Unless they're talking about the bad-boy image, it really doesn't make sense. Dante is fighting authority, not following. Even though it's been done a lot, it's still not telling people to conform.

Probably the only reason the original Dante would no longer be used is if he wasn't bringing in enough money. Then again I do remember someone saying that, with DmC crashing, there was a high chance that Capcom wouldn't continue either one. That still wouldn't stop them from bringing Dante into other games.

My only problem with DMC1 Dante was that some of his lines were really awkward. I'm sure they weren't easy for Drew Coombs. Other than that, I'd say he was better than the versions of him after that. I did like how DMC2 Dante felt more mysterious, though. They just should have continued keeping him different, rather than turning him into so much of a cliche.

If you think more about it,a lot of things are considered cliche nowadays.

If Dante was to be serious,he would be considered one of those calm,collected and handsome guys who has no flaws.

If Dante has too much humour or sarcasm and he's too confident,he is considered one of those party guys with a lot of charisma and badassery.

If Dante is the bad-looking guy who doesn't give a damn and he has a rebellious attitude towards the society once again is considered the old cliche with "the teen against society".

To me a character can be cliche,but what's the most important,it's HOW they make him look and act without throwing it right in your face,because fictional characters are meant to represent a quality or a flaw,or how we would prefer to be like,to admire them etc. etc.

Everything has been done at a point,nothing left is really original if we think about it.
And I don't seek so much originality anymore because there is nothing much left,it's all a combination of what has been done before.
 

EllDawn

Well-known Member
I'd say fake meat and real meat. With fake meat, people say some of it has cancer causing schemicals in, and with real meat, some of it has been found to contain growth hormones. So I don't trust either anymore.
The adverts say quorn mince is healthy, but they never say exactly what is in it.

As for being thin. If you're not like that naturally, don't bother. It saves a lot of upset and terrbile diets that do more harm to you. I have a friend who tried to eat nothing but cabbage water soup to become thin. She lasted a week, and all week she jus cried because she was so miserable doing the diet.
I've heard about that, too. My problem is I love meat so much, I can't give it up. That would likely be my downfall.

How could anyone think that practically starving themselves is a good idea? Sure you'll lose weight, but you're also losing much needed nutrients by doing that. People really need to stop with the obsession of being thin.

And one thing bothers me is about the beauty products.
The best selling beauty products are the most advertised. They cost much, but so much people just buy them just because the advertisements convinced them that work, without knowing what is inside(probably some terms create by them, that you don't understand but you feel powerful), the same works with the health supplements, advs successfully make you feel that you are borned lack of calcium and borned of too much cholesterol(I am exaggerating, but you understand) , the focus is on the emphasis of you're lacking something, but not the current food supply system or your eating habit. I have seen so many cases that the parents buy health supplements for their kids, but they are healthy actually. When buying those things, they are unsure whether those products are really beneficial to their bodies, they don't hesitate about the price level, but when we talk about buying organic or local food/products which is about sustainability and the substances which really enter the body, they become smart and care about the prices.
I've always hated beauty products. The idea everyone has of perfection is absolutely what would give someone control over all humans.

And the health supplements, what's funny to me is I can't take any of them. They make me nauseous. Parents do need to realize that getting such things for their kids could be harming them.

That's right; I agree. Labels are for things, not people! We are who we are!
If we're brain-dead conformists, then how come we decided to give a low selling game a chance? Being a conformist would be more like getting a game because it's popular and everyone's buying it. That was one thing I always hated hearing. "Everyone's doing it."

They would be sad, but if Capcom thinks they can't make any money on new Devil May Cry games, they aren't likely to continue. That pretty much means the fans who rejected DmC without trying it might have ended up encouraging the death of their favorite series. At least they'd get to see Dante anyway.

Considering they decided they couldn't come up with anything new for DMC, I'm sure it will be more repetition.

I didn't even know about a youtube video like that. Then again I mostly use youtube for music.

Yeah, he might do it because they tampered with his favorite foods. It would be funny to see him eat a vegetarian pizza because meat would be too likely to have unknown chemicals in it.

Most food and drink fads are also pretty sickening. If it says sugar free, or fat free, it's pretty much something you can be sure is going to taste like crap. If people want to be healthy, it would be better to pay attention to what they're eating. Make it more natural, and don't over-eat.

Sadly it is human nature to label things and put names on them. It's what people do...it's kinda sad.
You're right, it is human nature to label everything. But that is something that is under a person's control. If parents would teach their kids not to label everyone, and why, there might be less of it.
 

EllDawn

Well-known Member
If you think more about it,a lot of things are considered cliche nowadays.

If Dante was to be serious,he would be considered one of those calm,collected and handsome guys who has no flaws.

If Dante has too much humour or sarcasm and he's too confident,he is considered one of those party guys with a lot of charisma and badassery.

If Dante is the bad-looking guy who doesn't give a damn and he has a rebellious attitude towards the society once again is considered the old cliche with "the teen against society".

To me a character can be cliche,but what's the most important,it's HOW they make him look and act without throwing it right in your face,because fictional characters are meant to represent a quality or a flaw,or how we would prefer to be like,to admire them etc. etc.

Everything has been done at a point,nothing left is really original if we think about it.
And I don't seek so much originality anymore because there is nothing much left,it's all a combination of what has been done before.
You're right. Everyone's used everything so much that nothing can officially be called original. How it's used can change everything. That's not something you see very often, any more, a unique use of cliches.
 

LysseC

Philosopher and fangirl. Worst. Combination. Ever.
You're right. Everyone's used everything so much that nothing can officially be called original. How it's used can change everything. That's not something you see very often, any more, a unique use of cliches.
That's exaclty the point. Many "archetypes" are now fixed, and may come out as clichès when they are not given any depth of character whatsoever. But if you combine well those archetypes, and give those characters their own motivations and story, then they become not simply boring clichès.
However, this is really difficult, and the real "artist" is the one who can combine different models and suggestions to create something new that somehow strikes a chord in the public.
 

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
If you think more about it,a lot of things are considered cliche nowadays.

If Dante was to be serious,he would be considered one of those calm,collected and handsome guys who has no flaws.

If Dante has too much humour or sarcasm and he's too confident,he is considered one of those party guys with a lot of charisma and badassery.

If Dante is the bad-looking guy who doesn't give a damn and he has a rebellious attitude towards the society once again is considered the old cliche with "the teen against society".

To me a character can be cliche,but what's the most important,it's HOW they make him look and act without throwing it right in your face,because fictional characters are meant to represent a quality or a flaw,or how we would prefer to be like,to admire them etc. etc.

Everything has been done at a point,nothing left is really original if we think about it.
And I don't seek so much originality anymore because there is nothing much left,it's all a combination of what has been done before.
Because, to almost everyone, the cliches back then are still the cool thing...
 
Because, to almost everyone, the cliches back then are still the cool thing...

Back then,they weren't so repetitive...as time passed,cliches were used more often,of course they became quite boring,but
in order for them to not be so obvious,they were overtaken by the good storytelling,gameplay,music and characters that were
loved or appealing to audience.
That's why I'm not too fond of what today has to offer anymore,I've seen them so many times,it's not even entertaining.Also in games too..There are some games of today,but not many,that draw my attention on them,because they don't hold anything original anymore ..because it's all a combination of what has already been made,that's why todays graphics are so high,visuals have more impact on a person,especially in the subconscious,not only this..of course.I feel that in our days pretty appearances blind us too much to see beneath them.

It's not easy to build a good story,characters and such,but because technology improved so much in the last 20 years,they focus more on how to make it as fascinating or realistic as possible(graphics),but they don't realize it often overshadows the important side in a game.As I said,not all video games are like this,but mostly are,because the visual aspect is the first that comes in contact with people and their subconscious.
They are enjoyable but they must not lose the important aspects in a game,because,that's why they are video games afterall.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
I've been alone for most of my school years,I wasn't fitting in any group. I was a smart student,but the class I've been in was divided into: Smart people but arrogant and fake (which I wasn't) and those ones which possesed no form of intelligence.
I've been lied to,bullied, even though I was being myself and didn't say anything.It was me,my drawings and the music and nothing else.I was even crying from so much loneliness and I knew school wasn't that great in the matter of forming someone's personality.
For me it was and it is just a way of accomplishing the goal of getting a job,but school should also give tolerance,acceptance and make its pupils come with delight at school.


I also think exams don't always portray someone's true potential.
It's like having a bunch of animals,different ones,and tell them to climb a tree.Just a few can,but not everybody,due to their natural disability,if you know what I'm saying.

I hate stereotypes with a burning passion.Stereotypes,manipulation and just corruption.I'm a person with a high sense of justice and I always try to change people's minds in the right way...

Different is okay. If you're comfortable with yourself then don't listen to what society tries to change or push you their way.
"What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” - What is normal to some people,others might find it weird,but that doesn't mean you have to isolate them or ignore them just because they might have a different view from you.
That's what I think.

no offence intended just some thoughts

how do you know what is right and what is wrong people were burned at the stakes and made slave for speaking against religion the religious people viewed it as right and we nowadays view at as wrong. is right simply what we have been told? or does it differ form person to person if so how come there are winners in votes of any kind? if right is what we have been told then or their only a few ways of thinking? for 90 percent of people could vote for thing which just means everyone is back to ground zero and even justice is a form of manipulation and control
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
no offence intended just some thoughts

how do you know what is right and what is wrong people were burned at the stakes and made slave for speaking against religion the religious people viewed it as right and we nowadays view at as wrong. is right simply what we have been told? or does it differ form person to person if so how come there are winners in votes of any kind? if right is what we have been told then or their only a few ways of thinking? for 90 percent of people could vote for thing which just means everyone is back to ground zero and even justice is a form of manipulation and control
You just got me thinking on that. For me, it seems like people while in public will go along with the most popular opinion, especially if a country is too 'politically correct'. However, when a person is in private, at home for example, they can think and do what they like without fear of being seen as different.

You example of voting for instance. People in public could say that they want to vote for a party that their friend supports, but when the time comes to vote, they vote for a different party of their choosing.

As for justice and laws. It is a form of control. They are there as consequences for wrong actions that would hurt society as a whole such as stealing, killing and fraud. So if people know they will be punished and sent to court for trial, they are less likely to commit a crime.

So yes, right is what we are told. Slavery was fine until small groups of people stood up to this, and began to convince others that it was also wrong. And once a large group of people was convinced, then the rest of the public followed. Now the opinion that slavery is wrong is a majority opinion. Sure, you still get a few saying it's right, but there are not many.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
im 13 years old i can perfectly understand all of this i am not incredibly and i am not incredibly dumb i do well in some subjects and poor in others (always getting hundred percent in history and 0 percent in japanese) and it seems my "freinds" are trying to make me miserable you should play this this game you should play that game and while im willing to give it a chance im not willing to play a game or refuse to play a game because evrybody else is doing i dont have ANY freinds that play DMC but i forge on.

the most annoying thing is when some thinks they are a non-comformist and says "be yourself" however they end making their own trends for their group and just becomes piece of comformity, non-conformity can only be acheived on your own otherwise it becomes a group effort and pointless i can tell someone about a game and tell them don't play this class but your welcom to try if you think it suits your play-style

modern soceity is absolutely awful it's so frustrating when somone says i am right you are wrong without providing backup or any sort of argument at all
whats worse is when people are total dipshits like there not one but TWO people in my classes that will come to class late and then sit next to their freinds kicking anyone there off the worst bit being the person does not complain they think "he is a cool kid do what he says" the absolute worst thing about that is i have done it myself without even releazing it becomes part of who you are when you are exposed to something long enough ever heard of the concept of memes? the idea is that they are concept that is created and passed you come up with a cool catchphrase and everyone starts using it. how they not? its part of there culture the very air they breathe and the ground they walk on to me humans are weak creatures that need to change themselves and will do just that unfortenaetly it only seems to be for worse at the moment. then there is the opposite of conformity you do things by yourself and usually end up aggressive towards people how could you not it is steretype you are branded with until the day you die and then you disregard all manners mannersw are things which makes the world a better place for everyone in it not to point where it is in Japanese where things are "thank you i could not have done it without you" when the person had nothing to do with it thats just being a sellout

its funny how people expect happy endings and when they turn 18 they get ****ed off because its hard to get a job and they will think things like "but i am good at school, its the teachers fault they sabotatued im going to sue them **** THIS ****"

technology is the worst all teens are expected to have facebook then once you get facebook you are expected to gave over 200 freinds then you have to update your status every few minutes then you have to ****ing get onto other social media sites and it continues until you have two plus accounts full of personal information.... and people think there money is stolen when they leave their adress and when they are going holidays for the world to see

i have facebook myself but i only talk to people on it plus another person i can't talk to in many other ways none of them very convenient :/

but here i am like one of the masses myself trying to justify his/her own conformity while arguing against it it's a complex circle of conflicting morals and general philosophical confusion that has given me many headaches

pop music is also pretty bad i hate it because the lyrics and even the instrumental versions are essentially brainwashing because love and i quote this directly "is the most pure wonderful thing imaginable" to me this is utter garbage to me love is absolute garbage hugging is consdiered sexual activity what happens when people hug their girlfreind/boyfreind?
they feel happy this is just your brain saying "this could lead to mating which will increase the population and help humanity's survival i will reward you now"

another thing why is the word mating used for animals and the term sex is used for humans humans are ANIMALS i repeat this ANIMALS it is not different yet we try to cheat it because we dont want to have to take care of babys but we want our brains to say "reward, cash out,you win "

this links back to pop culture because the music and songs enforce shallowness and puts forth the "love" idea (which i dont consider a emotion merely chemical reactions in the brain i have no scientific proof but i have analyzed it and it seems logical enough for me to believe)

there's something else people adapt as they learn and copy everything else nothing is original because it all is based of something else, people are not born with a personality they adopt by what they see around otherwise nobody could learn a language could they? AI's wouuld adapt as they learn if they were to exist indepently and relaibly in any situation even with simple tasks something will happen thats not in the user manual so machines and AI's cant do to much without being able to learn of others and thus create a small understanding even if they have not seen anyone in a simliar situation EVER because if the firts thing were to see of somone having to handle something they dont know and the person panicked the AI would then panic

people say there is a right and wrong and they go on about bad influence they are actually contradicting themselves because if right and wrong morals do exist then we could not be influenced because they are integrals morals people are born with

i like to tell people to be open minded but not so there brain falls out for a reason

as much as i would like to say otherwise im a conformist myself im not as put as other people ( i dont follow pop music or pop culture i dont even follow my favourite non-pop music maker, skrillex, i dont beleive adds and never take anything at face value....words are to easily coated with lies and false ideas) dispute all this i let the cool kids have there way and then immediantly after think "dammit what was i doing"? unlike most people my age i refrain from swearing even when im mad i only swear when i'm joking around and have been doing so for a while


this coming from a kid who overthinks about everything and questions everybodys reasoning even his own and continues to do so until he has thought WAY to long and WAY to hard dont take my opinion as right unless it corresponds with your own even if a omnipotent omniscient god told me something i would cast it aside as "you think your way ill think mine" unless it matches in with what i beleive

and look i SWEARED earlier without even realizing i can fancy things up with words but i cant properly follow it

it's pretty much inescapible the only ways out are death ( i dont beleive in heaven or hell or anything like that to me it is just loss of brain activity) and tottaly cut yourself form the ENTIRE world not just refusing to talk to them but locking yourself in a room or other private area and not using the net EVER and NEVER coming out
 

LysseC

Philosopher and fangirl. Worst. Combination. Ever.
no offence intended just some thoughts

how do you know what is right and what is wrong people were burned at the stakes and made slave for speaking against religion the religious people viewed it as right and we nowadays view at as wrong. is right simply what we have been told? or does it differ form person to person if so how come there are winners in votes of any kind? if right is what we have been told then or their only a few ways of thinking? for 90 percent of people could vote for thing which just means everyone is back to ground zero and even justice is a form of manipulation and control
It is really difficult understand what is right. What now we consider allegedly(as in, what most people publicly defend) as right may, as you say, change drastically with time. This can be one definition of right.
But if I disagree with what is publicly said, then I do not consider it right, deep down. My judgement about right is different, and it is not simply a matter of opinion. I have a strong feeling that public opinion is wrong.

I think that it is really difficult to understand what really is Right and Wrong (with capital letters to point out that I am referring to universal and atemporal moral judgements, which should not be dependent of circumstances and cultures). Historically, those people who thought they possessed knowledge of Right and Wrong were most likely to go to war for it.
In contemporary society, we are learning (VERY little by little), to live together with people who have different ideas of what is right and wrong. We are learning that we are fallible in our moral judgements, and that people who disagree with us are not simply stupid (technically speaking, each person has the same "moral powers" as every other person, there are not people who have a greater insight on this matters, provided that each of us uses his/her moral powers to the fullest), and thus we should find a way to establish a peaceful cohabitation with those who disagree with us.
That's why some political philosophers are now defending conceptions of morality that may seem "weaker" than those who established a strong conception of Right and Wrong. What really matters now is the fact that we agree on certain general principles that should rule our interactions (first and foremost respect for other people, which is another way of saying that we accept that all people have the same moral powers), and thus we create a society on the basis of those principles only.
Those principles are not Right in the sense of what I specified before, but are widely accepted, and as such can be considered 'right' in a weaker sense (exactly the sense that those are the principles that are widely accepted).
How do we find those principles? Through public debate, which should be regulated by the idea of "public reason", which is the idea that in public debate people should use arguments that could be accepted by people who do not always share their beliefs (for example, if I'm Christian and I'm talking to a Muslim, I would not use an argument whose pivotal point is the existence of the Christian God).
This is the idea that should constitute the basis of democracy, as John Rawls puts it. It think it is a pretty well thought account of the principles at the basis of democracy.

The problem is, it is a incredibly delicate balance, that of public reason, and it requires a terrible amount of education and commitment to those principles from people who take part in public debate. That's why democracy is always in danger of falling apart, in the exact moment in which people who partake in public debate do not really endorse, deep down, the principle of public reason.
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
You just got me thinking on that. For me, it seems like people while in public will go along with the most popular opinion, especially if a country is too 'politically correct'. However, when a person is in private, at home for example, they can think and do what they like without fear of being seen as different.

You example of voting for instance. People in public could say that they want to vote for a party that their friend supports, but when the time comes to vote, they vote for a different party of their choosing.

As for justice and laws. It is a form of control. They are there as consequences for wrong actions that would hurt society as a whole such as stealing, killing and fraud. So if people know they will be punished and sent to court for trial, they are less likely to commit a crime.

So yes, right is what we are told. Slavery was fine until small groups of people stood up to this, and began to convince others that it was also wrong. And once a large group of people was convinced, then the rest of the public followed. Now the opinion that slavery is wrong is a majority opinion. Sure, you still get a few saying it's right, but there are not many.

EXACTLY and how can laws be deemed right either right either? killing is against the law in most if not all places however if you really think about it and ask why is bad? if a freind was to be unable to talk to you forver you woulk sad right? but not the crying breakdown people normally have when it is essentially not that different. stealing is ok because people work hard for some stuff but if people lose you should'nt cry just say "oh well i lost a few luxuries i can make do for now"

also thanks i like being able to contribute to a discussion however possible if i genuinely care
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
It is really difficult understand what is right. What now we consider ALLEGEDLY (as in, what most people publicly defend) as right may, as you say, change drastically with time. This can be one definition of right.
But if I disagree with what is publicly said, then I do not consider it right, deep down. My judgement about right is different, and it is not simply a matter of opinion. I have a strong feeling that public opinion is WRONG.

I think that it is really difficult to understand what really is Right and Wrong (with capital letters to point out that I am referring to universal and atemporal moral judgements, which should not be dependent of circumstances and cultures). Historically, those people who thought they possessed knowledge of Right and Wrong were most likely to go to war for it.
In contemporary society, we are learning (VERY little by little), to live together with people who have different ideas of what is right and wrong. We are learning that we are fallible in our moral judgements, and that people who disagree with us are not simply stupid (technically speaking, each person has the same "moral powers" as every other person, there are not people who have a greater insight on this matters, provided that each of us uses his/her moral powers to the fullest), and thus we should find a way to establish a peaceful cohabitation with those who disagree with us.
That's why some political philosophers are now defending conceptions of morality that may seem "weaker" than those who established a strong conception of Right and Wrong. What really matters now is the fact that we agree on certain general principles that should rule our interactions (first and foremost respect for other people, which is another way of saying that we accept that all people have the same moral powers), and thus we create a society on the basis of those principles only.
Those principles are not Right in the sense of what I specified before, but are widely accepted, and as such can be considered 'right' in a weaker sense (exactly the sense that those are the principles that are widely accepted).
How do we find those principles? Through public debate, which should be regulated by the idea of "public reason", which is the idea that in public debate people should use arguments that could be accepted by people who do not always share their beliefs (for example, if I'm Christian and I'm talking to a Muslim, I would not use an argument whose pivotal point is the existence of the Christian God).
This is the idea that should constitute the basis of democracy, as John Rawls puts it. It think it is a pretty well thought account of the principles at the basis of democracy.

The problem is, it is a incredibly delicate balance, that of public reason, and it requires a terrible amount of education and commitment to those principles from people who take part in public debate. That's why democracy is always in danger of falling apart, in the exact moment in which people who partake in public debate do not really endorse, deep down, the principle of public reason.

your exactly right a chain is only as good as its weakest link and a single arrogant or uneducated person (i dont use the word dumb iqs tests are stupid trivia the only intellegience level is if you have a working brain or not the rest is what you have been told) and democracy falls apart forgive me for saying this but the world was but when we had one monarch that did not change for even if he is exceedingly incompetent it keeps the idiots in check and allows smart people to be smart you know the people you would have the best philosophy discussions with would be a terrorist because they don't folloiw society and they would generally have good points you guys seen iron man 3? i though the mandarin dude made some good points while still being a monster though the fortune cookies was just a "i am right you are wrong" thing to bad the mandarin turned out to be a idiot who was paid with girls and fancy luxuries i really wanted to see how things would turn out :(


also creds to anybody who can read my extra long post (i think i hit the word limit almost, almost)
 

seraphmaycry

Well-known Member
also i have more to say (mods are probably gonna have to give me a warning or something for double posting in this thread so much)

the whole DmC comformity/nonconformity amuses me greatly the game on the outside gives out the message of conformity however things are treated as good v evil which is silly because if it was give a non-conformist message we would get something from mundus to justify his rule other things apart from his humans are weak mini speech that can be argued as invalid since he had such poor reasoning and examples then there is dante himself he started as archetypal young adult DBAG then at the end he became the hero and was all like "i am humanitys protecter no this not cliche no i am not having a identity crisis portrayed in a cliche and thus conformist way" really i could go on about how after you scratch the surface the crystal loses it's radiance and eventually becomes just another rock (actually that's a pretty good metaphor ITS MINE NOW)

yet scratch further and the crystal shines once more (meh not that great) we get really complex themes about was it right to kill lilith? to me i think it was and it was neccesarry (see previous post about death before you kill me a monster) but lets move on

the eye of dante is conformity thing it is for iphone only the trendy gadgect to have and for facebook and twitter only the twitter social media sites

i dont have much to say right now thankfully just remember that just because i dont like nero you have to hate him to my sig is my not other peoples way of thinking i disagree on nero but i try to do so respectfully but who am i to judge? who is anybody ton judge declaring something right or something wrong makes you fall into conformity even when you are not biased in the slightest

my age makes weird to say what i have said but if i put of till later it will never get it done and this is something thats matters

also i would like to know who here came because somone else was doing it but know im not going to accurate answers this is a subject where no sometimes means yes and yes sometimes means no and it is impossible to tell when,resulting in more headaches (to me this one of the most complex things that can be discussed and i certainly have a lot to say)
 
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