Just curious, but does anyone still believe that silly "Nero being Vergils son" theory?
- Thread starter AlastorSword
- Start date
Raonak
Well-known Member
I think it's the theory that makes most sense. It's the most consistent with whats been said by capcom and what's present in the games.
Dante's like ~35-40 in DMC4. Nero's approx 17. So timeframe wise, it fits in place. Vergil would've been 18-20 when he concieved nero.
Nero having the blood of sparda, looking like dante, blue color focus, keeping yamoto, sharing vergil's saying. etc.
There's too many hints.
I also think nero's mother would've been atleast half demon. And nero's devil bringer comes from his mother's bloodline.
Dante's like ~35-40 in DMC4. Nero's approx 17. So timeframe wise, it fits in place. Vergil would've been 18-20 when he concieved nero.
Nero having the blood of sparda, looking like dante, blue color focus, keeping yamoto, sharing vergil's saying. etc.
There's too many hints.
I also think nero's mother would've been atleast half demon. And nero's devil bringer comes from his mother's bloodline.
AlastorSword
“Must not sleep... must warn others."
Actually that isn't correct. Dante is 28 in DMC1. DMC4 takes place only a year after DMC1 meaning Dante would only be 29 or possibly 30. Vergil and Dante are, of course twins, so they're the same age. Nero's age is never hinted but to me, he looks 18. That would mean Vergil would have been around 11 years old when Nero was conceived.
Also other theories explain that Nero might have come to be thanks to cells collected form Yamato thus caring Sparda's trademark white hair and greyish-blue eyes. Science and magic were a huge part of DMC4 so there's possibilities of him being artificial after all. Maybe he was a normal child who was used as a test subject during prototype Alto/ Bianco Angelo creating, before they used empty armors. They believed him to be a failure and he was discarded before Credo's family took him in. Knowing he wouldn't remember anything Sanctus was willing to let him roam free, however they were wrong.
Raonak
Well-known Member
source? I find that hard to believe considering both dante and trish look so different.
AlastorSword
“Must not sleep... must warn others."
Only thing that changed about Dante was chin hair lol. Trish got a new outfit and clipped her bangs. Dante and Vergil lost their parents when they were 8. Dante confirms that he lost his mother and brother 20 years ago. His brother survived but his mother did not.
AlastorSword
“Must not sleep... must warn others."
It's all in a matter of preference. To me, it's the most cliched and dull origin story they can come up for Nero and also contradicts the morals of our beloved Vergil a bit as well. But hey like I said, it's all in a matter of opinion I guess
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
Yes, and i kinda like that thought.
Something kinda misunderstood by people in this forums about Vergil comes around two things:
1) His relation and thoughts about humans, and his condition as half-human itself
2) The kind of honor he had
And that gives argument for something major about his personality: that mindset of a warrior, a demon warrior to be specific. He sees himself this way and he wants (even if he try too hard) to be this way, he want that power that his father had, and even if he shows respect to his father (because of how powerful he was), Sparda was the only demon that kinda had a human side and that was the whole point of him despising humans"weakness" as Vergil sees it (remember that Sparda became a common mortal guy after sealing his own powers); that's why he despise human emotions and traits in general, it's not that he hates human, he's uncomfortable with the idea of being part human and that making him a unsuitable warrior: he's kinda insecure about his own power and abilities: but why? The hint DMC3 left for us, is that he blames himself for not being able to protect something (most probably, his mother), that line after the first battle with Dante leaves this explicit. That's why he despises humans "weaknesses" (that Dante sees as a strenght), it's not that he truly hates human, he do not reached that point yet. Something common in the asian philosophy is that thing about opposites and became tainted by some dark side, look at Evil Ryu's description and make the contrast with normal Ryu:
"As Evil Ryu, he becomes quite demonic and rage-driven; while his anger is not mindless, he has cast aside his respectful ways. Like Akuma, he enjoys power, and seeks strong warriors to fight to the death with. He truly hates what he perceives as weakness from humanity, such as love, family, justice and vengeance."
Coincidental, huh? Not exactly, that is kinda the cultural background they have for their symbolic representations of evil and good.
Going back to that "warrior mindset", that's were his honor sits too. Vergil's honor is all about combat, fighting, even in his most tainted form he showed honor (in DMC1, as a gameplay feature itself, Nelo Angelo will not attack you until you face him directly, unless he was already charging some attack when you give him your back). That's the kind of honor he have, he wants to be a "true warrior", he wants to test his own skills in a meaningful way, he wants power and improve himself as warrior; that's why he "despise" firearms and consider them to be unworthy of a warrior, they do "all the work" by themselves; that shows one opposite between Dante and Vergil too: Dante sees fighting as a way to have fun, in a lighthearted way (remember the ending of DMC3), Vergil sees fighting fundamentally as way to improve himself and to become more powerful.
I remember some post that someone made here in this forums, with some commentary extra-game by devs telling the idea behind Dante and Vergil is that they were suppose to be kinda a counterpart of each other, an opposite pole, shadows; and that was symbolized by their colors of choice (Red, the color of Eva and a vibrant, vivid color) and Blue (more of a morbid color), and remember: Red + Blue = Purple, the color of Sparda; so they are essentialy trying to simulate and embracing opposite poles of their father's own existence. Going on into this, remember some things about DMC3 story: he proposes to Dante to share their father's power, this is ultimately a sign of caring considering what he says after (and his "selfishness" about power in the whole game) : "Without power you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself". In the final battle, he again shows that he kinda struggles to sustain this "cold devil pose", when he is falling in that abyss, he gently swings Yamato into Dante's as a final token of his existence, what kinda implies that he accepts his human side (even in a very "unique" way, without saying anything); and Dante "confirms" this symbolism by keeping the gloves in his desk by the end of the game, side-to-side with his mother's portrait; it's cool to remember too that last Vergil line when he's going to take on Mundus: "It will be fun to fight with the Prince of Darkness. If my father did it, i should be able to do it too"; notice that subtle change of posture, he now shows that he wants to fight for the sake of fighting, he does not mention anything about power and does not even show his common arrogance, this could mean what was said before: he accepted his human side along with the weaknesses that comes with it, this in parallel with the Dante line in the end: "That's what i live for!" (talking about stylin' on demons), makes this argument stronger, as they show the same mindset in the end.
tl;dr Vergil was in self-denial the whole time, ultimately he had compassion for those he loved, he was able to love too and show signs of this to Dante; and Dante symbolic represents humans, the human side of Sparda that he choose to embrace.
Something kinda misunderstood by people in this forums about Vergil comes around two things:
1) His relation and thoughts about humans, and his condition as half-human itself
2) The kind of honor he had
And that gives argument for something major about his personality: that mindset of a warrior, a demon warrior to be specific. He sees himself this way and he wants (even if he try too hard) to be this way, he want that power that his father had, and even if he shows respect to his father (because of how powerful he was), Sparda was the only demon that kinda had a human side and that was the whole point of him despising humans"weakness" as Vergil sees it (remember that Sparda became a common mortal guy after sealing his own powers); that's why he despise human emotions and traits in general, it's not that he hates human, he's uncomfortable with the idea of being part human and that making him a unsuitable warrior: he's kinda insecure about his own power and abilities: but why? The hint DMC3 left for us, is that he blames himself for not being able to protect something (most probably, his mother), that line after the first battle with Dante leaves this explicit. That's why he despises humans "weaknesses" (that Dante sees as a strenght), it's not that he truly hates human, he do not reached that point yet. Something common in the asian philosophy is that thing about opposites and became tainted by some dark side, look at Evil Ryu's description and make the contrast with normal Ryu:
"As Evil Ryu, he becomes quite demonic and rage-driven; while his anger is not mindless, he has cast aside his respectful ways. Like Akuma, he enjoys power, and seeks strong warriors to fight to the death with. He truly hates what he perceives as weakness from humanity, such as love, family, justice and vengeance."
Coincidental, huh? Not exactly, that is kinda the cultural background they have for their symbolic representations of evil and good.
Going back to that "warrior mindset", that's were his honor sits too. Vergil's honor is all about combat, fighting, even in his most tainted form he showed honor (in DMC1, as a gameplay feature itself, Nelo Angelo will not attack you until you face him directly, unless he was already charging some attack when you give him your back). That's the kind of honor he have, he wants to be a "true warrior", he wants to test his own skills in a meaningful way, he wants power and improve himself as warrior; that's why he "despise" firearms and consider them to be unworthy of a warrior, they do "all the work" by themselves; that shows one opposite between Dante and Vergil too: Dante sees fighting as a way to have fun, in a lighthearted way (remember the ending of DMC3), Vergil sees fighting fundamentally as way to improve himself and to become more powerful.
I remember some post that someone made here in this forums, with some commentary extra-game by devs telling the idea behind Dante and Vergil is that they were suppose to be kinda a counterpart of each other, an opposite pole, shadows; and that was symbolized by their colors of choice (Red, the color of Eva and a vibrant, vivid color) and Blue (more of a morbid color), and remember: Red + Blue = Purple, the color of Sparda; so they are essentialy trying to simulate and embracing opposite poles of their father's own existence. Going on into this, remember some things about DMC3 story: he proposes to Dante to share their father's power, this is ultimately a sign of caring considering what he says after (and his "selfishness" about power in the whole game) : "Without power you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself". In the final battle, he again shows that he kinda struggles to sustain this "cold devil pose", when he is falling in that abyss, he gently swings Yamato into Dante's as a final token of his existence, what kinda implies that he accepts his human side (even in a very "unique" way, without saying anything); and Dante "confirms" this symbolism by keeping the gloves in his desk by the end of the game, side-to-side with his mother's portrait; it's cool to remember too that last Vergil line when he's going to take on Mundus: "It will be fun to fight with the Prince of Darkness. If my father did it, i should be able to do it too"; notice that subtle change of posture, he now shows that he wants to fight for the sake of fighting, he does not mention anything about power and does not even show his common arrogance, this could mean what was said before: he accepted his human side along with the weaknesses that comes with it, this in parallel with the Dante line in the end: "That's what i live for!" (talking about stylin' on demons), makes this argument stronger, as they show the same mindset in the end.
tl;dr Vergil was in self-denial the whole time, ultimately he had compassion for those he loved, he was able to love too and show signs of this to Dante; and Dante symbolic represents humans, the human side of Sparda that he choose to embrace.
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Actually, Occam's Razor doesn't apply here. Occam's Razor refers to the denial of new theories that bring new principles. Theories such as Nero being an artificial hybrid or Nero being Sparda's reincarnation are perfectly acceptable because they go off of what's clearly intended in the game or what is possible by the game's standards. Nero being Vergil's son wouldn't fit in Occam's Razor because the theory assumes Vergil felt love for someone and enough love to want to have a child with said person which is hardly believable because he nearly killed Dante on multiple occasions. Even more so, the age difference between Vergil and Nero assumes pedophilia on the woman's part which makes even less sense assuming she is average- minded.
Considering what he had done in DMC 3, he was hardly honorable by the basic definition. In fact, in DMC 1, he was a stark contrast of what he was in DMC 3. He never snuck a strike on Dante and has been reported to face his foes fairly and squarely. However, in DMC 3, he killed his subordinates (the Hell Vanguard and Arkham) coldly, ruthlessly struck a near- killing blow to his brother when he was down on the ground (a rule of honor- bound dueling is that you don't strike your opponent when he is on the floor), and even killed a demon when it was blind and couldn't see him (Beowulf; another rule of honor- bound dueling- you don't fight your opponent when he's handicapped).
Actually, it does show his arrogance. First of all, he's tired and weakened by his fight with Dante yet he assumed that he was even enough with his father that he could take on Mundus. Second, that line and the scene as a whole is an affirmation of what Dante said to him in the beginning of their fight:
"No matter how hard you try, you'll never be like father."
Which is true given the difference between Vergil and Sparda's personality. Sparda had awoken to morality and accepted it. Vergil near- completely forsaken it.
Raonak
Well-known Member
Vergil wouldn't have had to love.
Vergil's worked with other people, namely arkham, so I always just saw it as Vergil working with/using a half-demon vixen(who also has a devil bringer), They might've f**ked once or twice, she was into vergil, and he just wanted to use her for his own gain. before vergil backstabs her. She dissapears. gives birth. drops him off at orphanage.
might be cliche, but the whole DMC storyline is a chiche. seems to make most sense in the context of the series.
Vergil's worked with other people, namely arkham, so I always just saw it as Vergil working with/using a half-demon vixen(who also has a devil bringer), They might've f**ked once or twice, she was into vergil, and he just wanted to use her for his own gain. before vergil backstabs her. She dissapears. gives birth. drops him off at orphanage.
might be cliche, but the whole DMC storyline is a chiche. seems to make most sense in the context of the series.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Not to mention the fact that Sanctus said that while "Nero had the blood of Sparda in his veins, it wasn't as strong as Dante's."
Let's get around the whole "Vergil had conceived Nero at age 11" thing... could there be any other possible explanation?
Maybe Nero is actually 15 (and just grew up fast due to his training and demonic blood -- the game manual did say that he was more-or-less gifted because he always worked alone), which would have Vergil conceive him at age 14.
Vergil had run away from home at age 8. So, he probably had to "grow up fast" as well as a result in order to survive.
He then, in all probability, ran into powerful human teenager (a sorceress who, was most likely a "prodigy" as well, and maybe slightly older than him) at age 14 while still on the streets and... well, he probably had Nero then when she um... seduced Vergil -- through her sheer demonstration of power if nothing else.
Which would explain why Nero is still as strong as Dante. His human side is magical (as is Vergil and Dante's; it's insinuated that Eva was a powerful witch at one point, which would explain how she managed to survive the war between the humans and the demons).
Thanks for this Raonak. I'm putting this in my "DMC connection" theory (which I'll get around to writing one day). It helped a lot.
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DMC5 would have probably revealed Nero's mother to be a powerful human sorceress, from my point of view (there are a few humans who could train well enough through magic and martial arts to take on demons... Arkham being an example -- Lady had some training as well, but it was probably her "spiritual" connection to her father that made her as powerful as she was).
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Anyway, that's my official theory. Feel free to disagree with it; it won't make me change my mind on the matter.
Let's get around the whole "Vergil had conceived Nero at age 11" thing... could there be any other possible explanation?
Maybe Nero is actually 15 (and just grew up fast due to his training and demonic blood -- the game manual did say that he was more-or-less gifted because he always worked alone), which would have Vergil conceive him at age 14.
Vergil had run away from home at age 8. So, he probably had to "grow up fast" as well as a result in order to survive.
He then, in all probability, ran into powerful human teenager (a sorceress who, was most likely a "prodigy" as well, and maybe slightly older than him) at age 14 while still on the streets and... well, he probably had Nero then when she um... seduced Vergil -- through her sheer demonstration of power if nothing else.
Which would explain why Nero is still as strong as Dante. His human side is magical (as is Vergil and Dante's; it's insinuated that Eva was a powerful witch at one point, which would explain how she managed to survive the war between the humans and the demons).
Thanks for this Raonak. I'm putting this in my "DMC connection" theory (which I'll get around to writing one day). It helped a lot.
-------------------------------------------------------
DMC5 would have probably revealed Nero's mother to be a powerful human sorceress, from my point of view (there are a few humans who could train well enough through magic and martial arts to take on demons... Arkham being an example -- Lady had some training as well, but it was probably her "spiritual" connection to her father that made her as powerful as she was).
-------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, that's my official theory. Feel free to disagree with it; it won't make me change my mind on the matter.
VOLPE
SSStylish Swordsman
I still like the theory about nero being an experiment of dante and vergils blood and a decendant of eva but this thoery makes sense too i really hope one day we get an actuall factual explanation nero is either vergils son or some kind of experiment
VOLPE
SSStylish Swordsman
Arwen Michaelas
Active Member
I resisted it quite stubbornly at first, but then I took the time to play it again, and unfortunately it makes sense on some level.
started when dante ''gave'' yamato to nero at the end, I mean who the hell gives away their dead brother's most prized possession to a stranger,
but then he did allowed him to keep it in the middle of the story 'before nero got himself swallowed by the savior'
I'm sure dante didn't give it him to him out of the kindness of his heart, he must've felt nero deserve it somehow, and the only 'how' I could think of based on the fact that nero was a descendent of sparda is, well, he is virgil offspring,
but I guess we'll never know.
started when dante ''gave'' yamato to nero at the end, I mean who the hell gives away their dead brother's most prized possession to a stranger,
but then he did allowed him to keep it in the middle of the story 'before nero got himself swallowed by the savior'
I'm sure dante didn't give it him to him out of the kindness of his heart, he must've felt nero deserve it somehow, and the only 'how' I could think of based on the fact that nero was a descendent of sparda is, well, he is virgil offspring,
but I guess we'll never know.
Dantesanimus
Well-known Member
While that wrap up novel may drop a lot of hints to it being the case I don't hold too much stock in either it or any other non game release for that matter. I mean the Manga ( that was released by Capcom) for three was Alice In Wonderland themed...of course none of this technically matters anymore thanks to that reboot thing. All the fun combat in the world can't save that vomit they called the "new" story. Then again, four never felt at home among the others to me either. Maybe if they had actually included the stuff they added to 4's book to the actual game, like they supposedly had intended, it would have felt a little more sturdy. As is, that whole idea feels like an after thought meant to wrap up that completely random adventure.
Devil May Cry 4: "Oops we accidentally killed Vergil! Quick someone make up another "Son of Sparda"! Just place a convenient coffee stain over where his origin story is and we will bull **** something later!" - Capcom
Devil May Cry 4: "Oops we accidentally killed Vergil! Quick someone make up another "Son of Sparda"! Just place a convenient coffee stain over where his origin story is and we will bull **** something later!" - Capcom
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MigsRZXAStylish
In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
Of course it did! I agree!
I'm still not buying Crapcom's crap of Nero being Vergil's son! No f'n way! No no!!
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I am.Of course it did! I agree!
I'm still not buying Crapcom's crap of Nero being Vergil's son! No f'n way! No no!!
I mean, they can always say he was a clone like Solid Snake was a clone of Big Boss, but for now, I don't see any other explanation.
Aw crap, I forgot about that.
Enigma
Crimson Sentinel
Yeah, Dante most likely is 29 in DMC4 like that guy said. If not precisely, then he's at least 'around ten years older than he was in DMC3', which I'm pretty sure I heard Kobayashi say. Since he was 28 in DMC1 and DMC4 takes place after that, that would make him 28 to 33. If he were 34, that would be fifteen years, not ten.
If Dante is 29 in DMC4, then Vergil would have been too. Nero is about 19, so that would mean Vergil had Nero at age 10. That just doesn't work. Even if D&V were 35 like most people estimate, that'd mean Vergil had Nero at age 16. Possible, but unlikely, since Vergil only wanted more power. I doubt he'd care much if humans died because he opened the hell gate. If he wanted a child, he'd have one with a demon, to make sure his son didn't become a quarter demon weakling. Also, the symbolism would not make sense. Nero fights Dante on a statue of Sparda. Nero is red and blue - even his demon form, which is purple (Sparda) taken apart, or a combo of Dante and Vergil. Berial tells Nero he is ''just like he was'' (Sparda). I dunno, maybe DMC should just be restarted, from DMC1 onward. That way people would get back the best version of Dante, and still get a nice ending to the series.
And no, the DMC story does not get retconned constantly. DMC2 did not retcon anything aside from maybe Dante's personality. The plot was simply a new plot, there was nothing retconned about it. DMC3 showed how Dante was when he was 19. It has some slight plot holes, but that does not make it a retcon. DMC4 was similar to DMC2 in that it told a story that had nothing to do with Mundus, but that's only logical. Not all games should revolve around Mundus.
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