I feel the need to clarify something...

[GF9000000Returns]

I thought he was just talking about the overall tone and design

i need to go off-topic here.. it's funny that people who enjoyed DmC --like moi, are the ones getting bored, fed up, or just lost interest in Japanese stuffs.. i mean not entirely, it's because more or less, someting seemed off with japanese creativity nowadays,

This is so me! There's only a couple anime I still love to this day.

One example being them acting like they've got a monopoly on what's cool, saying that old Dante's not cool anymore -- even though everybody from 2008 (DMC4's release) would disagree, and 2008 was only 4/5 years before NT made their statement that Dante wasn't cool. Who are they to decide if Dante and/or DMC are cool or not? And since when is coolness objective instead of subjective?

'K then, allow me to oblige. 2010 is a start of a new decade, which means some things needed to be left behind, whether its styles, music, some game genres, etc. Plus, most of today's gamers would see any of the new stuff and think that its outdated, and therefore, there'll be no sales. It's objective once you think about that. So, his statement does hold some merits. I mean, you don't have to agree with it(sometimes I don't agree with it either), but in reality, that's how it is. Look at the transition from the 1980s to the 1990s.

Plus, if there was a DMC5 instead of DmC, it would've made less sales than 4, cuz some of the aesthetics and backtracking turned many people off, including me.

The 'Dante is' and 'Dante is not' stuff made me cringe, and them comparing old Dante to a boring picture of Brokeback Mountain just seemed low to me. In no way is Brokeback Mountain comparable to Fight Club.
And Tameem apparently didn't understand the idea that old Dante was like a superhero. Sure, if he walked into a real-life bar, people would probably go 'wtf?' But that also goes for Superman and any other extravagant heroic character, not just 'absurd Japanesey characters'.

But you forgetting one thing. Dante doesn't have to dress up as a superhero to be one, or dress up as a mercenary to be a mercenary. That's the point Tameem made. Sure, the BM thing was a bit out of line, but still.

 

[Lord Nero]

I thought he was just talking about the overall tone and design



This is so me! There's only a couple anime I still love to this day.



'K then, allow me to oblige. 2010 is a start of a new decade, which means some things needed to be left behind, whether its styles, music, some game genres, etc. Plus, most of today's gamers would see any of the new stuff and think that its outdated, and therefore, there'll be no sales. It's objective once you think about that. So, his statement does hold some merits. I mean, you don't have to agree with it(sometimes I don't agree with it either), but in reality, that's how it is. Look at the transition from the 1980s to the 1990s.

Plus, if there was a DMC5 instead of DmC, it would've made less sales than 4, cuz some of the aesthetics and backtracking turned many people off, including me.



But you forgetting one thing. Dante doesn't have to dress up as a superhero to be one, or dress up as a mercenary to be a mercenary. That's the point Tameem made. Sure, the BM thing was a bit out of line, but still.

I don't see much of a transition to be honest. DMC4 came out in 2008, there's no way there was a huge shift in ''what's cool'' from then to 2010. 1980 vs 1990 is a completely different case than 2005 (DMC3) or 2008 vs 2010. And even if there were, who cares? It's all just a fad -- in a few years time, we'll all have '70s haircuts again and scoff at pictures of 2015 haircuts and clothing styles and stuff. I think it's a bit childish to go with ''what's cool'' just because it happens to be in style. Developers should stay true to their definitions of coolness, not go along with the herd.

Besides, Bayonetta 2 was released recently, and people loved it. Didn't seem outdated to anyone either, even though it has a very similar style to DMC4. In fact, when I played Bayonetta 1, I could clearly see the influence of DMC4.
Aside from that, I don't see how the classic DMC (let's take DMC4 as an example) is extremely outdated or out of style or whatever. Now consider that DMC5 wouldn't be all that much like DMC4 -- at least, we can't assume it would be.

''Plus, if there was a DMC5 instead of DmC, it would've made less sales than 4, cuz some of the aesthetics and backtracking turned many people off, including me.''

How can you just assume that? And why are you assuming DMC5 would look exactly like DMC4? Why are you saying DMC5 would have backtracking like DMC4? You're making an awful lot of assumptions, none of which appear founded on anything. Remember, DMC4 was rushed: the development time was reduced from two years to *one year*. The backtracking was a direct result of that, and the plot was even overhauled and dropped in quality because of that.
Now that I'm reading it again... how does that sentence even make sense? 'DMC5 would make less money than DMC4, because DMC4's aesthetics and backtracking turned people off'? ...Hwat? Again, it begs the aforementioned questions I posed about assumptions. And then there's the fact that DMC4 sold 2.8 million copies, while DmC only sold 1.1 within its sales deadline. So... if DMC5 did sell worse than DMC4, why would that be a bigger problem than DmC selling 1.1 million? I doubt DMC5 would sell THAT badly.

Sorry, but I've heard that argument so many times, and it's never been fleshed out well.

''But you forgetting one thing. Dante doesn't have to dress up as a superhero to be one, or dress up as a mercenary to be a mercenary. That's the point Tameem made.''

I understand that. But it is part of Dante's identity, his image. His calling card. It's part of the full package. Without it, there would be a slight disconnect between his actions and words and how he looks. It increases his charm as a character, for me at least. DmC's toned down style of ''white tanktop with combat boots and jeans'' worked because it was used on a different type of Dante. If you gave DmC Dante DMC4 Dante's clothes, there'd be a disconnect between his looks and his personality.

Anyway, NT's comparison of old DMC to Brokeback Mountain and DmC to Fight Club just seemed unfair to me. One movie was very typically 'masculine', if there is such a thing, and the other was not about being cool or badass at all. It's just an illogical comparison, and the picture of the characters from Brokeback Mountain lying in a field was obviously used to portray classic DMC in as ''pedestrian'' a light as possible.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

The Aquila is more like a fuuma shuriken or 'windmill' shuriken.

Unlikely.
Most of those are at least 3 to 4 times larger than the Aquila, don't have handles, and aren't used in the same way aquila is.

It's more than likely inspired from things like the weapon from Dark Sector:

Or Krull:

 

[Chancey289]

Unlikely.
Most of those are at least 3 to 4 times larger than the Aquila, don't have handles, and aren't used in the same way aquila is.




Or Krull:

Of course it isn't. Those things were meant to be huge for pure thematic purposes. That giant shuriken isn't even a real weapon.

 

[Lord Nero]

Unlikely.
Most of those are at least 3 to 4 times larger than the Aquila, don't have handles, and aren't used in the same way aquila is.

It's more than likely inspired from things like the weapon from Dark Sector or Krull.

Just because fuuma shuriken are usually larger doesn't mean they're suddenly a completely different kind of weapon. And those weapons from Dark Sector and Krull had to be inspired by something, right? Seemingly inspired by windmill shuriken.
And technically the Aquila doesn't have handles, just dull parts.

In any case, they're not glaives (a kind of polearm). I never even heard of the word 'glaive' being used for throwing weapons, and I'm not getting any useful hits on Google.
The Devil May Cry wikia refers to them as shuriken.
I suppose they could also be like chakram, with the obvious difference being that chakram are circular.

 

[Chancey289]

Just because fuuma shuriken are usually larger doesn't mean they're suddenly a completely different kind of weapon. And those weapons from Dark Sector and Krull had to be inspired by something, right? Seemingly inspired by windmill shuriken.
And does the Aquila have 'handles'? Doesn't Dante just hold them somewhere where there's no blade?

In any case, they're not glaives (a kind of polearm). I never even heard of the word 'glaive' being used for throwing weapons, and I'm not getting any useful hits on Google.
I suppose they could also be like chakram, with the obvious difference being that chakram are circular.

The whole point behind those ridiculously large shuriken is the size. Size purely for thematic purposes.

They're not real weapons. They don't function like actual shuriken because hell, the design goes against the point of shuriken in the first place! lol

And just saying, the inspiration behind the weapons go further than just their physical appearance. The names also hold relevance here.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Just because fuuma shuriken are usually larger doesn't mean they're suddenly a completely different kind of weapon.

But it does make it less likely that they were the inspiration for the weapon.
Especially considering there are two other popularized weapons of a more similar design.

Doesn't Dante just hold them at the dull edges?

That's typically what most people would refer to as a "handle".
They obviously aren't apart of the actual blade of the weapon.(The same way the handle of a sword isn't.)

In any case, they're not glaives

They were inspired by the fictional throwing version of glaive.
Just type "throwing glaive" into Google, you'll find dozens of weapons almost identical to the Aquila.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

As for what Tameem said, I don't see why calling something 'Japanesey' is supposed to be insulting now. That said, NT has been pretty disrespectful in some instances. One example being them acting like they've got a monopoly on what's cool, saying that old Dante's not cool anymore -- even though everybody from 2008 (DMC4's release) would disagree, and 2008 was only 4/5 years before NT made their statement that Dante wasn't cool. Who are they to decide if Dante and/or DMC are cool or not? And since when is coolness objective instead of subjective?
The 'Dante is' and 'Dante is not' stuff made me cringe, and them comparing old Dante to a boring picture of Brokeback Mountain just seemed low to me. In no way is Brokeback Mountain comparable to Fight Club.
And Tameem apparently didn't understand the idea that old Dante was like a superhero. Sure, if he walked into a real-life bar, people would probably go 'wtf?' But that also goes for Superman and any other extravagant heroic character, not just 'absurd Japanesey characters'.
"The people who are skeptical secretly want to like it." Arrogant much?

Anyway, they've said more stupid stuff, though they might not have intended it to be offensive.

But yet all the fans who say nDante isn't cool are aboslutely right?

You're right, what's cool and what's not is subjective, and that's THEIR subjecive opinion not a fact. if you think oDante's cool, that's fine, but that doesn't mean I have to agree, nor NT have to agree. Like you just said; subjective, opinions, blah blah blah.

Tameem knew Dante was something of a superhero. he himself said DMC1 was his favorite one of the series. Ask for superman and dante; superman is ten times more popular then Dante ever could be. In an american bar, people know who superman is. Dante's clothes probably get odd looks compared to a hero everyone knows.
Also was it REALLY Tameem who said that, or someone at Capcom, because I need proof of that.
Also if this is gonna be another "Tameem hurt my fanboy feelings" argument again, then I'm just gonna stop here before things get pretentiously annoying.

 

[Chancey289]

But yet all the fans who say nDante isn't cool are aboslutely right?

You're right, what's cool and what's not is subjective, and that's THEIR subjecive opinion not a fact. if you think oDante's cool, that's fine, but that doesn't mean I have to agree, nor NT have to agree. Like you just said; subjective, opinions, blah blah blah.

Tameem knew Dante was something of a superhero. he himself said DMC1 was his favorite one of the series. Ask for superman and dante; superman is ten times more popular then Dante ever could be. In an american bar, people know who superman is. Dante's clothes probably get odd looks compared to a hero everyone knows.
Also was it REALLY Tameem who said that, or someone at Capcom, because I need proof of that.
Also if this is gonna be another "Tameem hurt my fanboy feelings" argument again, then I'm just gonna stop here before things get pretentiously annoying.

I remember that particular thing about coolness and Dante. And no one said Dante wasn't cool himself, he said what was cool back when DMC first came out, isn't what's really cool now. They always viewed DMC back in the day as this melting pot that incorporated all that cool stuff it was about at the time together.

They wanted to do that again with a more contemporary approach. Basically, what's in nowadays.

And when it came to the bar quote, it was also referring how their approach to the world was going to be more grounded and realistic thus Dante's flamboyant outfits wouldn't mesh well with that. They were going for an every man hero look when it came to Dante in the latest game. Him wearing the clothes from the original here, is like a cosplayer who got lost on his way to a convention.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

This thread is going down a path I'd rather it not.

To quote Adam Jensen: "I never asked for this..."

 

[V's patron]

@Malik Robinson

According to the wiki, The hunter's design was said to be similar to a japanese creature called the nue which is like a chimera so there's another fun fact.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Even though I never come here anymore aside from to watch whatever ignorant things people say nowadays

Followed by this...?

As for what Tameem said, I don't see why calling something 'Japanesey' is supposed to be insulting now. That said, NT has been pretty disrespectful in some instances. One example being them acting like they've got a monopoly on what's cool, saying that old Dante's not cool anymore -- even though everybody from 2008 (DMC4's release) would disagree, and 2008 was only 4/5 years before NT made their statement that Dante wasn't cool. Who are they to decide if Dante and/or DMC are cool or not? And since when is coolness objective instead of subjective?
The 'Dante is' and 'Dante is not' stuff made me cringe, and them comparing old Dante to a boring picture of Brokeback Mountain just seemed low to me. In no way is Brokeback Mountain comparable to Fight Club.
And Tameem apparently didn't understand the idea that old Dante was like a superhero. Sure, if he walked into a real-life bar, people would probably go 'wtf?' But that also goes for Superman and any other extravagant heroic character, not just 'absurd Japanesey characters'.
"The people who are skeptical secretly want to like it." Arrogant much?

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle a racial slur >.>

Seriously man. Everything you've said was either taken out of context or completely misattributed.

Just because fuuma shuriken are usually larger doesn't mean they're suddenly a completely different kind of weapon. And those weapons from Dark Sector and Krull had to be inspired by something, right? Seemingly inspired by windmill shuriken.

Shuriken means "blade hidden in hand," that's why they are only ever about the size of one's palm - so they can hide it in their hand. It stops being a shuriken when it can't be hidden in one's palm, much in the same way a shortsword is no longer a short sword when the blade goes past a certain length.

Aquila, the Krull "glaive", and Dark Sector's whateveritwasIforgotwhatitwascalled, are just different variations of the generic "throwing star." The shuriken counts as a throwing star, but it's a specific type of throwing star, given its specific design and name.

 

[WolfOD64]

You know, this may be the reason people come to this forum less and less, but it's also the reason I come here daily.

There's no way in the Nine Circles that I can pass up something as entertaining as arguments like these. It's like being the Caesar seated comfortably in his spectator's box in the Colosseum.

 

[Elijah Guerrero]

*arrives with tons of snacks like i'm ready to watch a great movie* did it start yet? *takes a sip of soda*

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It's like being the Caesar seated comfortably in his spectator's box in the Colosseum.

And you know what those thumbs up look like.

 

[Judge]

Besides, Bayonetta 2 was released recently, and people loved it. Didn't seem outdated to anyone either, even though it has a very similar style to DMC4. In fact, when I played Bayonetta 1, I could clearly see the influence of DMC4.
Aside from that, I don't see how the classic DMC (let's take DMC4 as an example) is extremely outdated or out of style or whatever. Now consider that DMC5 wouldn't be all that much like DMC4 -- at least, we can't assume it would be.

''Plus, if there was a DMC5 instead of DmC, it would've made less sales than 4, cuz some of the aesthetics and backtracking turned many people off, including me.''

How can you just assume that? And why are you assuming DMC5 would look exactly like DMC4? Why are you saying DMC5 would have backtracking like DMC4? You're making an awful lot of assumptions, none of which appear founded on anything. Remember, DMC4 was rushed: the development time was reduced from two years to *one year*. The backtracking was a direct result of that, and the plot was even overhauled and dropped in quality because of that.

With respect to your point about Bayonetta, we need to think about how many people really loved it. Bayonetta 1 and 2 were critically acclaimed titles, both reaching 9s and 10, but Bayonetta 1 did not sell whatever it needed to. So much so that Nintendo had to come in and fund Bayonetta 2. Then if we look at Bayonetta 2, that game has not sold very well either despite being highly acclaimed.

While its not necessarly down to the style asethetic. Bayonetta 1 had a lot of problems running on PS3, which gave the game a bad reputation with PS3 fans, and there were a few problems with the gameplay, but its aslo likely that the style of Bayonetta is simply not that popular. Even in Japan I don't think Bayoneta is that popular, neither is DMC for that matter.

"How can you just assume that? And why are you assuming DMC5 would look exactly like DMC4? "

Well I think the point of DMC4 was to establish Nero as the new main character of the series. Personally I'm not sure if Dante would've even featured as a playable character in DMC5. Maybe thats what Capcom were afriad of?

They saw that reaction to Nero was not as well recieved as they hoped and fans wanted Dante to return as the main character of the series, so they decided to give DmC to a developer to reinvent Dante and explore new directions to the franchise.

You know DMC4 actually sold 3 mil copies according to Capcom, so its entirely possible the series will continue with Nero as the new main character. Whether Dante returns as a playable character for DMC5 I don't know.

 

[Innsmouth]

With respect to your point about Bayonetta, we need to think about how many people really loved it. Bayonetta 1 and 2 were critically acclaimed titles, both reaching 9s and 10, but Bayonetta 1 did not sell whatever it needed to. So much so that Nintendo had to come in and fund Bayonetta 2. Then if we look at Bayonetta 2, that game has not sold very well either despite being highly acclaimed.

While its not necessarly down to the style asethetic. Bayonetta 1 had a lot of problems running on PS3, which gave the game a bad reputation with PS3 fans, and there were a few problems with the gameplay, but its aslo likely that the style of Bayonetta is simply not that popular. Even in Japan I don't think Bayoneta is that popular, neither is DMC for that matter.

Now this is complete off-topic, but Id like to point out that Bayonetta sold 1,3 mil in 3 months after international release. Which outscores games like Dragon's Dogma etc. and 90% of HnS releases alltogether. Problem is that Sega was pretty much on the very bottom and expected much higher sales, which of course is pretty unrealistic for a new franchise in HnS genre.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Not to start crap or anything, bu Bayo sold around the same as DmC, and people just love to point out that DmC "sold terribly" and that "it failed". Despite selling over a million being a triumph for any product.

It's the curse of the stylish action game - people wanna hit stuff, but the majority of the gaming consumerbase don't want to put as much effort into it, so games like God of War are overshadowed by Devil May Cry because of the button-mashy, my-swords-reach-every-onscreen style. Not to say that God of War wasn't fun, the second entry is a favorite of mine, but it pales in comparison to my love for Devil May Cry and games like it.

 

[Innsmouth]

Not to start crap or anything, bu Bayo sold around the same as DmC, and people just love to point out that DmC "sold terribly" and that "it failed". Despite selling over a million being a triumph for any product.

It's the curse of the stylish action game - people wanna hit stuff, but the majority of the gaming consumerbase don't want to put as much effort into it, so games like God of War are overshadowed by Devil May Cry because of the button-mashy, my-swords-reach-every-onscreen style. Not to say that God of War wasn't fun, the second entry is a favorite of mine, but it pales in comparison to my love for Devil May Cry and games like it.

GoW is mainstream. It sales on blood and easy to access style. Sadly in the end publisher expectation is all that matters. Bayonetta's sales were more than solid especially for the new franchise. But it wasn't enough for sega so they canned sequel which led to it reduced to only one platform, with most of it fanbase just isn't being there. Same happened to Onimusha. And who knows how many sequels were canned because games underperformed in publishers eyes.

 

[Judge]

I think Bayonetta was heavly discounted before it sold that many copies. I remember the price dropping very quickly just a week after release.

DmC, was still a bit more expensive for a while. So while both games might have sold about the same, in terms of profitability Bayonetta didn't make enough profit for the sequel despite having good sales. We know Ninja Theory made royalties on DmC, so we know DmC was profitable.

Whats even more interesting is that DMC4 has sold 3 mil copies. It will be interesting to see if all those fans come back for DMC4 SE. Bearing in mind DMC 1,2,3 HD has sold less than 1 mil copies. So while DMC3 did sell 2.3 mil copies, not that many fans came back for DMC HD. Despite getting three games in one package.

The million dollar question is will those 3 mil fans who bought DMC4 return for DMC4 SE. This one I have no idea about. Was DMC4 that popular to begin with?

I was also interested in Capcom releasing a demo for DMC4 before they release DMC4 SE. I want to play the demo to see if the final game has good improvements or not, before I comit to buying DMC4.