I’m lost. Help me to understand.

[Angelo Credo]

Thank you for writing this Ryan, there's a lot of points here I've been trying to get across for quite some time, yet never knew how to properly word it.

I'd just like to clear something up, I don't enjoy banning people, I don't enjoy dishing out punishments, I'm a hardass, granted, but I'm still fairly lenient when it comes down to the rules.

Honestly, when I come home, open my inbox and see 10 or so messages saying "Reported post", do you know what I feel? I honestly feel a little depressed, I feel depressed because it means I have to go ahead and dish out a punishment to someone, probably ban them if their history is bad enough or, given that many reports, just be forced to ban them outright anyway.

You know why else I get unhappy over it? Because it means yet again, after the countless times both myself and other staff members have told people to shape up, after I've warned people, after I've dished infractions, it means they STILL haven't listened to the advice they have been given and it means people STILL aren't growing up, it means people STILL aren't mature enough to be able to participate in a grown up way in an online community, and that, ladies and gentlemen of DMC.org, is what gets me down most about this place.

There are people that just make me straight up angry, me, Dark Drakan and Keaton work hard to keep this place in a respectable state, like Angel said a while back, some of you guys seem to take for granted the dedication we put into trying to make this place a respectable community for everyone to come in, have fun and make friends.

Thing is, we have our own lives, we can't do everything here for you and what we really want, more than anything, is for people to start taking initiative, and to start taking responsibility for their actions, for people to think before they post, to just do something to police yourselves.

Failing that, the ignore function exists for a damn good reason and more people need to start using it.

I don't want to have to say all of this again, I really don't, but honestly, if you see someone flinging insults around, don't respond to them, ignore them, they're just trying to get a reaction out of you, report them and move on, don't get yourself into trouble unnecessarily...

 

[Richtofen]

LoD seems to be always one step ahead of everyone it seems. ^_^ Anyways, something else I have to say:

When you're online, you have to think for yourself-which means using your head. There's no one here to hold your hand or tell you what's right or wrong, but that's why there are forum rules to look at and get a rough idea of what that 'law' is in this forum. When people bad mouth each other, it's not only feeding the fuel to a blown out agrument but it also drags innocents into a conversation that started out with someone else's opinion. I understand each to his own but if you stomp on someone elses foot or pressure/forcing them to accept something against their will, yeah, there will be blood to be spilt.

This is why if you use that handy-dandy ignore function, you won't have to put up with someone else's crap. This is why you have to be mature and think of the consequences before responding. Everyone on here may be pixels on a screen talking to each other but really, there is a person behind every letter in each post they make. I hate seeing Mods/Admins feel like sh!t, they come here to enjoy what forum members have to say but all they do is get a slap in the face everytime they come here and deal with other people's petty problems. If we just used our heads to think logically, we wouldn't be divided into groups. We aren't children, it's about time we act our age that we say we are. Or at least prove we are the bigger person and say 'No, I won't get involved' in an argument that could potentially hurt others or make it worse for yourself.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I definitely agree that this place has become divided into cliques. I look at each person here individually, with the exception of credo (because he has a gimp suit that I’m afraid of wearing again) and Drakan. People need to realize that any arguments or unpleasantness that happen in a thread, stay in that thread. Feelings are hurt, but life goes on. No need to spoil other threads ongoing discussions over something that happened under an unrelated topic. This isn't a cafeteria. There are no tables for you to choose to sit and eat lunch at.

Thank you for agreeing, Cheez. I'm glad you‘re mature enough to do just that. And I feel that this place would benefit greatly if everybody was to do just that. I agree. Things are going to get a little problematic at times, it‘s only expected. But I've seen tons of Threads demolished in the past, many my own. Where it simply wasn't necessary. Just because someone couldn't ignore something and just let it go. It‘s sad really. I love that analogy you placed. I think I‘ll have the peace soup please. Was that the pea soup Sir? No, the p.e.a.c.e soup, thank you lol

You're right. There aren't bad people, just people who tend to act immature and are not given the same benefit of the doubt other members are. I’ve been guilty of going on that prejudice in the past, that's something I’ll work to improve on, personally.

I think that a mix of both of these qualities is what should be strived for. Don't start stupid arguments and keep the rules in mind before you post. There's nothing wrong with 'stepping around' them, as you say. I don't really know the whole Sparda reference, but it's not a bad quality. You should be keeping the rules in mind when you're in a heated discussion.

I think we are all somewhat at fault in that area also Cheez, it’s something we can all improve on as a Community. The Rules are stuck under our noses, and placed in the Mods and Admin's Signatures just in case any of us ‘forget’. So it really isn’t that hard to follow and respect them, since they are easy enough. I slightly disagree however, as I think you may of misunderstood me. What I meant by doing a Sparda is the following. Someone who would get involved in an argument, but word things in a way as to not seem offensive. In other words, offending but within the limits. This is what I would say, ‘stepping around the rules’ is. And eventually those types slip up and fall into the Rules, and they get the hot lead of the law in their heads. But you’re right in the sense that the rules should always be in mind when you are making a comment. Unless you are, as I said, side-stepping the rules to not get into trouble.

You're right none of them are right. The group that doesn't get in trouble as opposed to hasn't yet. I’ve gone 3 years without an infraction, wonder why? Because I’ve never made a post in response to something disrespectful that's just curse words and insults. I understand that the forums are not a real-time conversation, and that taking the time to cool off if something gets on my nerves is for the better. But hell, a lot of you probably just think I have my head up my ass. :lol:

I’m glad you feel the same way as I do about this. If everybody took the same approach as yourself, we’d have a more calm and collected atmosphere. And members wouldn’t get so worked up at times with others. No, I most certainly don’t think that about you.

I’m of the opinion that in a community that is, as you described, 'whole', it's important for people to call each other out. If someone is being immature and whiny, there's no harm in pointing it out to them. But it's subjective. See, with this site people also seem to jump at people who do this and it's ridiculous.

Generally, if you think that the situation is explosive, and that it'll only spill more blood then let the staff handle it. Report and walk away. If you think there's even a chance of it, then I say don't get involved.

And lastly, do so with maturity. Don't pick sides, and don't start flaming people yourself.

I totally agree, I mean yeah you are right in what you say. However, I don’t think it’s right to make a huge deal or a great scene about how someone has acted wrong. It kind of draws upon negativity. Someone is more likely to just carry on being ‘bad’, if such a fuss has been made the first time they have done so. If people just pointed it out in a reasonable manner, the person may understand that they were actually ‘wrong’, and therefore they may feel more apologetic. Instead, they are probably feeling ‘ganged up on’, and like an ‘outcast,’ like I said before.

And that’s exactly how I see it also. Thanks for being someone who is respectful enough to understand such things. It’s more than appreciated, honestly.

On the contrary. That thread explicitly stated that the staff can't do everything for you. People need to start showing some maturity, plain and simple. I've read two other threads like this now, and there are a lot of good feelings and goals made. The problem is that nothing really comes of it. There's too much talk and not enough action.

Maybe so, but it does show desperation on the Admin's behalf. It’s more of a cry, a plead for us to change how we are. And it hasn’t really gotten better, if not worse from the date that it was posted. I’m hoping that we can all try and grasp these problems, and understand where we have gone wrong. In this, there can maybe be some vague attempt to try and stop these petty squabbles. Maybe this’ll be seen as another failing attempt to the many. And maybe it could somewhat feel that way to me, in a sense. But it’s better to try and make some attempt, then to just watch as people whine about each other and carry on as they do. So any attempt, is an attempt worth going for.

It was thoroughly enjoyable to read your opinion Cheez, and a high dosage of Rep is coming your way ^_^

LoD seems to be always one step ahead of everyone it seems. Anyway, something else I have to say:

When you're on-line, you have to think for yourself-which means using your head. There's no one here to hold your hand or tell you what's right or wrong, but that's why there are forum rules to look at and get a rough idea of what that 'law' is in this forum. When people bad mouth each other, it's not only feeding the fuel to a blown out argument but it also drags innocents into a conversation that started out with someone else's opinion. I understand each to his own but if you stomp on someone else’s foot or pressure/forcing them to accept something against their will, yeah, there will be blood to be spilt.

This is why if you use that handy-dandy ignore function, you won't have to put up with someone else's crap. This is why you have to be mature and think of the consequences before responding. Everyone on here may be pixels on a screen talking to each other but really, there is a person behind every letter in each post they make. I hate seeing Mods/Admins feel like sh!t, they come here to enjoy what forum members have to say but all they do is get a slap in the face every time they come here and deal with other people's petty problems. If we just used our heads to think logically, we wouldn't be divided into groups. We aren't children, it's about time we act our age that we say we are. Or at least prove we are the bigger person and say 'No, I won't get involved' in an argument that could potentially hurt others or make it worse for yourself.

I’m not always one step ahead, but I try to make sense of things. It’s my nature.

Too true. It’s worth using the ol' noodle. You have to see for yourself what is right and what is wrong. That is the same in every day life. In life, you may be lucky to have your mum hold your hand as a child. But when you age and get into the big old World, your mum lets go of your hand. She holds onto your heart though. If people here realised nobody is going to hold their hand and tell them that if they do wrong it'll be okay, then it’d be great.

Again, same with life. You tell someone not to have their opinion, what else is going to happen? An explosion waiting to happen. Also a lovely analogy. It’s like I told Meg. “Don’t just see me as a computer screen. See me as a person who has feelings and wants to help”. Well, I know it was something on those lines, so you kind of get the cheesy gist

Again, that’s a lovely point. And exactly what I am trying to get at myself. It’s simple. People are too opinionated and egotistical. Even myself. I don’t resort to posting my opinions and thoughts most of the time, because I know it’s not worth the inevitable quotations and mocking. “Ha, his opinion is different to mine. What a n00b!”. Seriously, people think they are grown up and mature at times, but the big scene is they aren’t. If we take into account everybody’s actions here, then not many of us are even close to being mature. And that includes myself, honestly speaking. I’m not a mature person. As I could honestly say, I could fall under the exact same lines as others do. I could easily get myself into trouble right now, and all it would take is for me to say how I felt towards certain people’s opinions in a serious and blunt way. And yeah, it'd portray me as a moron. But what makes it different is that I understand that sometimes saying something how it is, isn't how it is. Follow me here. If I told all of you exactly, quite seriously and bluntly, how at times I truly felt. I bet most of you would change your opinion of me, and may even take me off your friend's list. However, I understand that everyone has feelings. And nobody here is even at a point where I could say much more than a mere “Uh, you again”. You see, it's not the people here I have a problem with. It's just how at times people fail to do what I choose to. They fail to stop and ignore these things, and they decide to get involved and fight fire with fire. In the end, both people will end up burnt.

We all need to respect each other. We're adults, not children.

Thank you for writing this Ryan, there's a lot of points here I've been trying to get across for quite some time, yet never knew how to properly word it.

I'd just like to clear something up, I don't enjoy banning people, I don't enjoy dishing out punishments, I'm a hardass, granted, but I'm still fairly lenient when it comes down to the rules.

Honestly, when I come home, open my inbox and see 10 or so messages saying "Reported post", do you know what I feel? I honestly feel a little depressed, I feel depressed because it means I have to go ahead and dish out a punishment to someone, probably ban them if their history is bad enough or, given that many reports, just be forced to ban them outright anyway.

You know why else I get unhappy over it? Because it means yet again, after the countless times both myself and other staff members have told people to shape up, after I've warned people, after I've dished infractions, it means they STILL haven't listened to the advice they have been given and it means people STILL aren't growing up, it means people STILL aren't mature enough to be able to participate in a grown up way in an online community, and that, ladies and gentlemen of DMC.org, is what gets me down most about this place.

There are people that just make me straight up angry, me, Dark Drakan and Keaton work hard to keep this place in a respectable state, like Angel said a while back, some of you guys seem to take for granted the dedication we put into trying to make this place a respectable community for everyone to come in, have fun and make friends.

Thing is, we have our own lives, we can't do everything here for you and what we really want, more than anything, is for people to start taking initiative, and to start taking responsibility for their actions, for people to think before they post, to just do something to police yourselves.

Failing that, the ignore function exists for a damn good reason and more people need to start using it.

I don't want to have to say all of this again, I really don't, but honestly, if you see someone flinging insults around, don't respond to them, ignore them, they're just trying to get a reaction out of you, report them and move on, don't get yourself into trouble unnecessarily…

My pleasure, Kyle ^_^

I’m sure you have, and I’m glad I could help word things out in a decent enough manner. I didn’t think it would please you to go ahead with banning anyone. As much as some people may think otherwise, it isn’t going to be nice for you. I know you obviously appreciate the power and control you have over people here. And it makes you feel nice to know you’re respected and that you know how to do your job and make the many great decisions that you do. But at the same time, I see that it may not be nice for you to have such a control. I doubt you want people to walk around scared of what you may do. And I doubt you want anyone thinking that if they so much as make a single mistake in your presence, you’ll send them to the darkest and deepest pits of Hell. I know how you are, and since you’ve been here you’ve always had a clear mind, a level head, and a kind heart. And though you are most definitely that badass that you say you are, you are still a badass with feelings and a conscience. If you feel someone has to go, you tell it to them straight. You let them know the true feelings you may hold about them, because of how much whining you may of heard about them. So you tell them bluntly. But it’s not going to please you. I know you’re going to wish the person had just buckled up, and tried to smile and get along politely. And you’re going to hope that banning them isn’t the option. But when there are so many complaints, you may feel that it is an option that is maybe only plausible. And at the end of the day, you’ll probably only take pleasure if they have been a consistent pain for a very long time. In any other sense, you’d probably be as pleased about banning someone that has been here for three days, as you would for banning someone that’s been here three years. As the longer someone has been here would have no difference to the rules. We’re all equal.

I’m sorry that your advice gets ignored by some people. If you feel like giving people chances or trying to explain things would be a waste of time, then there is little else you can do but to ban someone. It upsets me to no end to see all the hard work put into this place; not only by yourself, but all members of Staff, be completely ignored and unappreciated. I’ve seen how yourself and the other Staff members have acted towards us members. I’ve seen all the attempts and tries you have made to make things change between us members here. And I’ve seen thread after thread just ignored. And I’m sure that it gets to you, and I’m sure that it is annoying and stressful. And I can understand that you are here to help, and you do more than a good job of it.

To everyone else, please understand that the Staff members here do an excellent job. The Webmaster and the Admins have created a great place here, that we should all appreciate and not ruin with silly arguments. And the Moderators that got to where they are, having gained their position, got to it by being the most helpful and kindest people. They got chosen because they showed excellent skills, and the skills required to do the job in a respectful and admirable manner. And whether anyone likes it or not, the Staff members are who they are. And they aren’t going to favour anybody here at all. They are going to favour the rules over the word of us members. So we need to all understand that. Once again it goes back to me saying that we are all equal. The Staff have told us all time and time again to learn to ignore such things and not get involved. And any problems caused, are the faults of anyone involved. Nobody is greater than anyone else.

Once again, my pleasure Kyle ^_^

+ Rep for you three ^_^

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Wow. You guys all raise good points. This thread is awesome!

@Master Vergil: I do believe I was the one to say that I was nervous, I think... Or I could've been one of many.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

^It was a while after you joined when things were getting 'messy' around here, but I can't remember the username of the member.

Is it weird that I'm jealous LoD and Credo are on a first name basis? ._. LOL

Rep for this thread though, very good points were raised and everything has been laid out very clearly. I just hope people not only read it but take it to heart and do something about it now.

And how come I'm able to give myself rep? I haven't, but I can - ish weird man.

 

[Meg]

Is it weird that I'm jealous LoD and Credo are on a first name basis? ._. LOL

Yes considering everyone here is on a first name bases with me.


HOW DO YOU ALL KNOW MY NAME!!!! :lol:

 

[The dark knight]

I'm part of the forum, but not really part of the community. So your fights and whatnot go by unnoticed by me. I think it is useless we have threads like this one. We had some before and they went nowhere. Edit: I'm on a first name basis with one guy that I still talk to. lol

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

I don't really know any one by their first name on here... apart from Master Vergil...
I haven't been in the DmC section in months. Personally, I just got sick of seeing the arguments. I think the last time I went in there, someone was causing trouble with derogatory comments...

I've got problems IRL (as do alot of ppl) so I don't really want to get into arguments on here. I know i have, but I have matured alot.... at least i like to think i have.
Although I will NEVER shut up about how great Vergil is

 

[The dark knight]

I'm not really a fan of DMC anymore. lol

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I think it is useless we have threads like this one.

Appreciate the opinion, but I don't really agree. I think it's useful we have people come here to discuss how things can improve and mature. I've seen a lot of it happening in people, so a difference can still be made.

 

[moseslmpg]

I agree with Dark Knight. I think threads like this are superfluous at best, and self-indulgent at worst (not saying you fall into the latter category by any means.) Pragmatically, it doesn't really get anything done though. Nothing on the board is going to change after this thread because either the members who are reporting posts all will-nilly will not change, or the mods who feel pressured to respond to such posts will not. Either way, the structure and personalities are still the same.

Really, I think the only problem that this forum has is that its has a culture of oversensitivity. Perhaps because it is so isolated and self-sufficient, in its own way, it seems that a lot of members never developed the hard outer carapace needed to survive on the internet, and thus can't handle something as innocent as an argument over undisputed facts. They see to view this place as some fluffy, sunshine-filled gumdrop land of fun and escapism where none of their opinions (offered on a public forum, no less) should ever be challenged. That's unrealistic and childish and defeats the purpose of a discussion forum IMO. If people want escapism and a place to decompress, I would advise them to find somewhere without other people around, because they aren't going to bend over backwards just so you can feel better.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy saying that this forum has issues, because it is one of the least "offensive" DMC forums there is. Sure, there may be cliques (although I have never noticed or cared about them), but that is bound to happen naturally when membership grows to a certain number.

Like DK said, I'm a member of the forum. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see this as a deficiency, nor do I see belonging to the "community" as something to be desired necessarily (although it does have its advantages, as all social groups do).

 

[Esura]

Okay, so I’ve been here for about three years now (As some of you may be aware. Or you can just look yourself) And when I first joined, this place was usually quite peaceful. We didn’t have hectic activity here, or much chaos going on. Things moved quite slow, generally speaking. And now, as of the last few months, since the new DmC also, this place has gotten a lot worse. And I really fail to see what everybody’s problem is. Everybody is accusing everyone of jumping down everybody’s throats. We’re all pointing fingers, blaming people. We all think we know who the bad people are, maybe outcast them also. There are some of us who think we’re greater and shun those who are in the ‘wrong‘. But personally, I don’t understand where this has originated from. To be fair, I think we’re all equal. And if one person is saying they know who is to blame, and whining at them, then aren’t they wrong to do that also? So all in all, this madness and chaos is everybody’s fault. Hell, even mine also, for just being here and being involved.

This place needs equality. And we normal members don’t walk on the lines of, “This person has to go”, or “This person is always wrong”. Ultimately, we’re not Staff Members. I think personally things get blown way too out of proportion, to the point that this place separates into groups. And it’s these groups that are ruining the Community. The Community needs to be a whole, and as one. But with these groups, that’ll never be so. There are the ones who are wandering around, disagreeing with opinions. Those people are the ones usually seen as wrong, and are whined about constantly. However, they stay here. It is until a member of Staff chooses to ban them (If they decide to) that they will remain here. We also have the peace group (The righteous ones) The group that always walks away from an argument, pointing out the wrong doers. Holding their heads high as if they can’t be blamed for anything. And then there are those who do good and bad. They get involved with arguments, but step around the rules to not get harmed. I would refer to this as, doing a Sparda. For those of you that will understand what that means.

So, which group is right? Is it right to waltz around like you’re invincible? Or think that you’re more perfect, because you haven’t got in trouble from the Mods or Admins? Or is it right to disagree with opinions and find yourself arguing with people, and getting all of your posts reported? Or is it right to tiptoe around the Forum Rules, whistling as you walk away without getting blamed. No, none of these are right at all.

I’ll tell you which group I come under. I come under all three. Here is why. I am in the first group, because I try my best to help people. I am in the first group, because I ignore arguments and don’t get involved. I am in the second group because I caused arguments, insulted other members. I am in the second group because my bad actions gained me an Infraction. Something many of you First Groupers wouldn’t own. And I am lastly in the third group, because at times I have walked away from the heat with my so called ‘likeableness’, without being blamed for a thing.

If anything I have the right to say all of this to you lot, what with being in all three groups in my time here. None of these groups are right. The group we all belong to isn’t a group. It’s a fun-loving Community, where we discuss Devil May Cry in a reasonable and mature manner. We let people have their opinions. We don’t jump down their throats. And if we think someone is wrong, we don’t whine about it for hours. We just learn to ignore it. And if worst comes to worst, we let the real people handle the work. We let the Staff Members get involved and determine what is right or wrong. And we let them punish and ban who they so wish. We don’t class ourselves as better, or view anybody as less of a member. We label ourselves as equal, and we accept that.

Here are two splendid Threads to browse through.

The Ignore Function

^ This Thread shows how we can all be mature, and learn to ignore bad things. If we ignore them, we rise above them.

Help Us To Help You

^ This Thread just goes to show that we all take things into our own hands, and judge too much. We need to realise that the Members of Staff structured this place.

I would just love for all of us to separate our differences. Appreciate being around here. And to just let people be how they want, and let the Staff do their job without us trying to do it for them.

Here’s to hoping I can understand more of what you guys think and feel towards what I’ve said. And here’s to hoping there is a lot more good things to come to this place, instead of bad.

~LoD

My boy...I know exactly what you meant when you said, "doing a Sparda." :lol:

That alone I'm repping you, then I'm going to rep you again because I completely agree with your post. Too much drama up in this bee. Feels like I'm in an episode of One Tree Hill or Gossip Girl in some of these threads.


BTW...I realized I've been here awhile my damn self. Two years.

 

[moseslmpg]

Ah, That bit about the ignore function, I definitely do agree with. And the paragraph before it, to an extent.

I wonder sometimes if the forum would be better off without the constant temptation to press that report button and have the conflict fairy come and make things nice. I grew up in a modless forum, and after a while, you learn to moderate yourself, albeit a little more roughly than modded forums.

Oh well.