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How difficult would it be to make DMC5, anyways?

Lord Nero

Ultraviolet Sentinel
I think you posted that exact sentence in a thread, but not as an actual thread of its own. :laugh:

Yeah, there should be enough money to develop DMC5. It's just that Capcom has no idea what it's doing. They need to figure out what to do with Nero and the other plotholes first. Well... if they care about the plotholes, that is. After all, they seemed perfectly fine with retconning some of the story (Vergil having been lost twenty years ago in DMC1, when he was 8, but then in DMC3 Dante met Vergil at age 19).

The question is: do they have an interest in making DMC5? If they don't care about the plotholes, and if we assume that they gave Devil May Cry to Ninja Theory just to get rid of it, then the answer is no. Their reason for giving Devil May Cry to Ninja Theory probably wasn't to 'westernize' it. I mean, as far as I know, there is a western branch of Capcom that could easily westernize it themselves. So it seems like they just didn't feel like making another DMC. I would understand that, because making DMC games for all these years might take a toll on Capcom's employees as well. They might not have any motivation left.

So right now, the difficulty could be giving DMC back to Kamiya, or giving it to someone else. I'm sure there's a lot of legal hassle involved. Even if they did go and make another DMC, it would take time to think of a new story. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to start over from DMC1 on or something. Just retcon DMC4 out of existence. That could work, and I find it kind of exciting. :thumbsup:
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Well I think they just don't want to deal with all those people runing around, complaining how whole DMC franchise was "enjoyable mess", especially considering their finances.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
remember that time coke brought out new coke, and then everyone complained, so then they brought back coke classic and raked in disgusting quantities of money?

It would basically be like that.
 

Gel

When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Premium
But Kamiya himself said on Twitter DMC is his rival.
Most probably Capcom sent DMC on hiatus until they figure what to do with itor simply enough time to be safe remaking the series all over again.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
But Kamiya himself said on Twitter DMC is his rival.
Most probably Capcom sent DMC on hiatus until they figure what to do with itor simply enough time to be safe remaking the series all over again.
Never trust Kamiya about what he says on tweeter. It's the only possible way to avoid confusion and misunderstanding, when he suddenly changes his mind.
 

Lord Nero

Ultraviolet Sentinel
DMC isn't much of a rival to Kamiya if it's stuck in Limbo. In my opinion, if Capcom wants to bring Devil May Cry back soon, and they still want to reboot/retcon it somehow, they need to give it to Kamiya. He's one of the few who could reboot DMC, but could still make it look and feel like a Devil May Cry game. I suspect the reason for letting Ninja Theory work on DMC was not to westernize it, but to reboot it... because Capcom themselves didn't have any ideas left. So right now, the hard part for Capcom is figuring out what DMC5 should be about in terms of story.

I think Capcom will want to go back to the old formula. Why? Because they don't like to take chances, and they might think the reason for DmC's financial failure is because the fans don't want the series to change. That's a popular assumption, though ignorant, since the problem with DmC was that its change was not the type of change people wanted.
What's more, I doubt Kamiya is interested in developing DMC5, since he basically abandoned DMC and puts little hints of Devil May Cry in all his games now (MGR, Bayonetta etc). He hasn't worked on DMC for so long, I doubt he even knows what to do with its story and characters.

I know Itsuno said he's interested in making DMC5 (someday), so there's a good chance Capcom's gonna keep the franchise. I'm cool with that -- I liked DMC4, even though the backtracking and Nero's unexplained arm tarnished it. I know they've got it in them to make a great game like DMC3. So far, the even-numbered DMCs were the worst, while the odd ones were pretty much liked by all. So let's hope DMC5 will be as good as, if not better than DMC3.
 
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Bazilican

Beer and big tits all around! XD
At this point, Devil May Cry is fighting a losing battle, I just saw and played a little bit of Bayo 2, and honestly, Devil May Cry might as well kick the bucket because Bayonetta 2 has it stomped in gameplay, and over-the-topness.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
something to consider is that kamiya has no interest in the itsuno or tameem versions of dante, if he was involved it would absolutely be DMC1 dante again. I like what he does with mechanics, but personally I've never been 100% with his character designs, I don't know if anyone else feels the same way
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
something to consider is that kamiya has no interest in the itsuno or tameem versions of dante, if he was involved it would absolutely be DMC1 dante again. I like what he does with mechanics, but personally I've never been 100% with his character designs, I don't know if anyone else feels the same way
Kamiya still dug DmC and thought it was a nice interesting take on the franchise. And DMC 1 Dante looks the coolest.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
Kamiya still dug DmC and thought it was a nice interesting take on the franchise. And DMC 1 Dante looks the coolest... I don't get how a lot of people here are so hung up on Kamiya, yet he's only ever worked on the first game in the series and most of you seem to personally enjoy DMC 3 and 4's approach more than anything.
Kamiya thought of the new DmC game as a decent action game that had nothing to do with devil may cry. He also considers DMCs 2, 3, and 4 to have nothing to do with devil may cry. If kamiya was involved in a DMC game again, his only interest would be in continuing DMC1 dante. I agree he did look the best out of the bunch (least ridiculous, wears a shirt, only has one belt buckle) but I wasn't too hot on his personality.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
It's really difficult to program all those animations -- and put in the hundreds of hours of play-testing in order to make sure there aren't that many bugs (because there will always be bugs -- it's impossible to get rid of them all) by the time you launch the game.

That's why action games are becoming rarer. They're getting too expensive (and time-consuming) to make due to all the new technology in the marketplace nowadays.

If we scale down the graphics back to PS2 levels, then we'd see a lot more releases. Unfortunately, most gamers these days are graphics-whores and don't want anything less than AAA budgets.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Well, it depends now wether Capcom considers DmC as separate title or adds it to DMC. if it considers it's separate DMC5 may be made since DMC4 knocked 3 mil. sales as of now. If not, welp franchise is abandoned since Capcom won't do sequels to games under 2 mil sales.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
It's really difficult to program all those animations -- and put in the hundreds of hours of play-testing in order to make sure there aren't that many bugs (because there will always be bugs -- it's impossible to get rid of them all) by the time you launch the game.
That's why action games are becoming rarer. They're getting too expensive (and time-consuming) to make due to all the new technology in the marketplace nowadays.

If we scale down the graphics back to PS2 levels, then we'd see a lot more releases. Unfortunately, most gamers these days are graphics-whores and don't want anything less than AAA budgets.

So, two things. First: most of what you said is wildly inaccurate, and this will be a lengthy post about why almost all of it is wrong. I know you probably won't read it because you and your friend have lately been too scared to actually talk to me about anything, but this is for everyone else's information. Second: the remaining elements of truth are statements of why games in general are hard, and not why another devil may cry would be hard.

The entire purpose of long established in-house engines (like the MT framework) is to dramatically reduce the number of hours that need to go into pre-production, engine development, and bug fixing. The amount of gameplay programming and testing that remains is no more than any other game would require; making another devil may cry on the MT framework, unreal, unity, or any other established engine would actually be much easier than making any other game from scratch. That's kind of just common sense.

It's very rare for anyone to actually program an animation, the existing engines companies like capcom use have implemented loading a model binary and skeletal animation long ago. Furthermore, converting maya binaries and skeletal animation are pretty much solved problems, so the need to continually update your animation methods isn't really there. When someone invents something better than a simple scene graph or matrix stack, that's actually worth the overhead to tear out all existing animation code and rewrite it, maybe then we can talk about the "huge costs" a company like capcom would face here.

Oh, also motion capture. Pretty much every AAA studio has their own in-house setup for this, and even smaller studios have places they can go for access to this technology. Ever wonder why modern games aren't so big on non-realistic enemies any more? It's because rigging and animating a realistic looking dude with 4 arms is a hell of a lot harder than copy-pasting your tried and true 2 armed rig, and animating it with motion capture. Hell, even motion capturing a dog is easy compared to something that would require hand animating, like a centaur. There are exceptions to this; Riot are basically psychopaths and do pretty much all of their animations by hand, which sort of blows my mind. It's not even that they don't have access to the technology to animate their mostly-human cast of characters, it's just that they don't want to. As you could probably imagine, their artist:programmer ratio is even more skewed than normal.

Would reducing graphics quality to ps2 levels really help? Well first of all, why on earth would you do that? Most of the cool effects people associate with modern games are not hundreds of hours of manpower to implement. What usually happens is someone finds a cool trick, or neat application for a long-known method, and they just slap it in there. Even tiny indie projects made with just one or two people can still find the time to implement simple things like phong shading, motion blur, or 2D shadows (which is actually considerably harder than 3D shadows, if you can believe that). I don't think bayonetta 2 would have released a day earlier than it did if someone had decided to exclude reflection, noise, or projected texturing, (which is essentially how they achieved their cool water effects).


TL;DR - Games are hard, but the things you think would be time-savers actually aren't. The only real barriers that stand in the way of another devil may cry game are the same barriers that any other game would face. In fact, you could convincingly argue that devil may cry would be easier than most games, as it's an existing formula, modified and applied on an existing engine where that formula has been shown to work in the past.
 
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