Does Tameem hate CAPCOM?

[V]

Even if he added an "I think" at the start of that it would still make me laugh. People have imaginations, they don't need to project their lives and exact tastes directly into everything onscreen to like it. But that WAS pretty much the skew of the DMC reboot - the whole franchise was redesigned so that "demons" would be transposed with topical stuff we consider threatening and suspicious in today's real world, Dante was given a facelift to reflect what people think as currently (and more 'realistically') appealing in the West... it was an exercise in reducing the fantasy. Maybe that's what Western people like now, less fantasy and more reality. Or fantasies about destroying the enemies behind the reality we have. I don't know. I just know it didn't grab me. I do know that Japanese games are usually more about escape from reality, not a return to it. The assumption was that Western people would like it because somebody Western had redesigned it, and designed it to make it something they would recognize.

Game developers have to assume what people want but half the time, and particularly with CAPCOM, what they think "we" want and what we actually want are two different sports.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

SOOO it's bad for westerns to say stuff about Japan...but its fine for Japan to say stuff about the west?

Wow.

 

[ItWasAnEggTimer]

lol Think about how stupid it would be to insult an overseas market THEN try & sell your product there & expect it to do really well.
Doing stuff like this:
Tameem's blase comments about Dante's "coolness", to the deliberately animated in-joke where a wig falls onto New Dante's head - there was a sense of "deal with it"

Apparently telling gamers to Deal With It doesn't do your business any good...................Isn't that right microsoft ?

But I found the "not in a million years" scene to be a bit funny.

Although he could've said something better.

"SSStylish"
"I wouldn't be able to pull that off."
*nothing*
"I should try that..."

 

[V]

And it's wrong taking away something already established as one thing from an audience, reworking & re-designing it to cater towards another audience.

If the franchise itself was some irredeemable failure from the start with very few fans, or followers who were not passionate about it then I'd say maybe it would be a right decision to redesign and try again. But DMC was never a failure, and having done this they're more than likely left wondering if they should continue with DmC, or DMC, or both? DMC was even born out of the better thinking of making a supernatural RE4 into something entirely different with a different name. Keeping DMC/DmC the same franchise probably just complicated CAPCOM's agenda, but maybe if they figure their **** out they'll come good out of it.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's not about that wig scene being funny or not. It was, and as said by other people, about NT basically showing power and control.

I think that Capcom's outsourcing comment was a good slap on NT and Tameem, who enjoyed everything while "promoting" DmC.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yup, Now they've put themselves in a pickle.
Either alienate fans of the new or continue upsetting fans of the original.
Both would give gamers a choice.

That is, if they decide to make another Devil May Cry game. Capcom might kill the franchise which would save them from choosing between DMC or DmC.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think Capcom did that because of it's disappointing sales.
You know, when something fails then blame someone else, when something succeeds then stand & take the credit.

Either way, I think it was very clever of Capcom to say that. Perhaps "clever" isn't the right word but it sure says companies have a rather fuzzy perspective when it comes to what gamer want.

 

[The Final Offer]

So, Capcom posted up that DmC had solid sales. The also posted up that they knew there would be negative feedback to the reboot. So they treated DmC as a new IP and posted it's sales projection (Max) at 2 million. They just guesstimated the sales, not assumed them like Square Enix with Tomb Raider (which is supposed to be a triple A title). In other words, one company needed their game to do well and the other company wanted their game to do well.

DmC sold as many copies as Dragon's Dogma. Two new IPs made around the same amount of money. No word on either of their sequels.

So the sales weren't disappointing. To say that would mean Dragon's Dogma was disappointing. Here's something else that'll blow your minds. Marvel Vs Capcom 3 didn't sell as well as DMC4.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

lol Think about how stupid it would be to insult an overseas market THEN try & sell your product there & expect it to do really well.
Doing stuff like this:
Tameem's blase comments about Dante's "coolness", to the deliberately animated in-joke where a wig falls onto New Dante's head - there was a sense of "deal with it"

Apparently telling gamers to Deal With It doesn't do your business any good...................Isn't that right microsoft ?


I think gamers are getting wise, we haven't come together yet but we will soon.

But u say that like stuff like this is any new.

To me the anger stems from the fanbase just being bratty and not being able to take a joke. I feel as though if it were Kamiya or Itsuno who made such jokes then no one would bat an eye about it. But again they do own the game's rights and as such can say what they want about it, but then that begs the question of whether disrespect is still disrespect even if its the original owner.

But for me, this thread seems to steam from a tired old complaint that's been blown out of proportion by whiny fans who can't accapt the change of a gaming franchise that hasnt been sh!t since 2001 and 2005.

But I digress. I dont care for either series as much anymore. Capcom's buisness practices annoy me and the fans on both sides are crap.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

That's what me & Ieyasu were talking about as the large majority of the fanbase saw no need for the change in the 1st place.

You're right it's there's to do with as they want but if the fanbase didn't ask for it & isn't happy with it then who's to blame.

At this point, its mostly Capcom's fault since they're the ones who started all this in the first place.

 

[The Final Offer]

Comparing it to Devil May Cry 4 & the rest of the series, YES.

I'm so glad you brought that to this discussion because I HAD A FEELING it would be mentioned.

Devil May Cry 4 is the highest selling of them all. DMC 1 is second, DMC 2 is third, DmC is fourth, and DMC 3 is fifth. So according to those sales, DMC 3 did the worst out of them all with DMC 3 Special Edition doing even worse. So no, even though it is a new IP, DmC did a good job in the series seeing that Resident Evil 4 is tied with DmC in sales.

If you really wanna take it there and go with the latest versions of games selling better and not considering them new IPs. Then Resident Evil Revelations sold bad in the Resident Evil franchise.

The highest a Devil May Cry game has ever sold is nearly 3 million units. There's also the fact that it came bundled with PS3s and Xbox 360s. Those consoles alone could've boosted sales significantly. If you check out the sales of games that came bundled with PS4s and Xbox Ones you'll see the significant increase from their predecessors (depending on the title.)

 

[The Final Offer]

@The Final Offer
1. Devil May Cry 3 was a commercial success, and was the eighth-best-selling game in Japan a week after its release.The game sold over 1,300,000 copies worldwide (earning Capcom's "Platinum Title" status), and the special edition sold an additional one million copies.

Posted 9/28/2013
DmC is #52 with 1.1 million in sales.

For the rest:
Devil May Cry is ranked 17th with 2.16 million copies sold.
Devil may Cry 2 is ranked 27th with 1.7 million copies sold.
Devil May Cry 3 (non SE) is ranked 44 with 1.3 million sales.
Devil May Cry 4 is ranked 11 with 2.7 million sales.

Best selling Capcom games as of September 30, 2013 from Capcom's official site.

Here you go.

June 30 2014.

DmC 34.

DMC3 ranked 47.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

 

[Axon49]

That list is only really relevant if you ignore budgets. And that goes for the "one million sales is a commercial success" thing too. For instance, if GTAV sold just one million copies it would have been an absolute failure.

I don't know if the info is out there, but I'd be willing to bet DmC had a higher budget than any other game in the franchise.

 

[Jak]

after being horribly mind ****ed all day today, i read this...and after reading all the comments, i'm still mind raped. i'm gonna go for a fag...and by the time i get back, i hope **** makes sense...

 

[DragonMaster2010]

after being horribly mind ****ed all day today, i read this...and after reading all the comments, i'm still mind raped. i'm gonna go for a fag...and by the time i get back, i hope **** makes sense...

'You'll need more then a fag for THIS fandom.

 

[The Final Offer]

That list is only really relevant if you ignore budgets. And that goes for the "one million sales is a commercial success" thing too. For instance, if GTAV sold just one million copies it would have been an absolute failure.

I don't know if the info is out there, but I'd be willing to bet DmC had a higher budget than any other game in the franchise.

*sigh* ok.

Games usually cost around 20-50 million to produce on the ps3 or 360. They need at least 1.3m to 1.5m to make a profit.

When Capcom was talking outsourcing and Ninja Theory spoke about how closely Capcom was involved in DmC's creation. They said every month Capcom would chime in 3 to 5 days a week in that one month. The communication between them was obviously at it's minimum. This must've infuriated and frustrated alot of them. Sometimes you can't do something without the permission of your boss. Calling isn't going to do it nor showing them pictures or videos. I'm certain Capcom asked Ninja Theory several times "Let's see where you are" and told NT "You can't use that."

So a drop in quality translates to their inability to work effectively in those conditions. Personally, I believe DmC was supposed to be more epic than what it turned out to be. Check out the second trailer. Then check out the trailers after and you'll see that there are several places that didn't make the cut. I mean, you can see Dante fighting in them, but, ultimately they didn't make it in for whatever reason.

Alot of things changed overtime. Alot of these areas were done differently (notice the outdoor tables, people, etc) and the once alive city was turned into a common Devil May Cry game. There is no telling just how many ideas and areas were thrown from the game because they couldn't get Capcom's approval in time for the deadline.

For example: "We got these sweet environmental moves but, to implement it and work forward we'd need Capcom's go ahead. Still, we got this problem with the responsiveness of the combat to tell them about in this next meeting and that could take up the entire meeting. It's either push for something else or fix something....."

 

[WolfOD64]

I don't know if the info is out there, but I'd be willing to bet DmC had a higher budget than any other game in the franchise.

Actually, DmC was a fairly cheap game to make...and was probably the least expensive game to be made in the series.

DMC4 had the highest budget in the series, not just because it followed the tradition of past games in the series by running on completely new engine that had been built from the ground up for that particular game (in contrast to DmC, which was just made on the already-existing Unreal 3 Engine), but also because of the immense amount of money put into the game's cutscenes and visuals. So much so, that the game's budget ran out before the development team could make more levels or inject more content in the game...resulting in the half-baked, unfinished, backtracking extravaganze that the game turned out to be upon release.

One of the reasons Capcom made DmC in the first place was because it was a cheap cash-grab---an inexpensive collaboration with an indepent studio, without lending any assets or tools from the past games for the reboot's construction. And as The Final Offer stated, Hideaki Itsuno and a few other Capcom members would give occasional feedback to the team.

 

[Chancey289]

No i don't say it like it's new, i say it like it needs to stop.

Gamers are overly sensitive about everything & certain statements can be taken the wrong way or not the best time to be made at all.

.

That "overly sensitive" thing really is a problem in itself. It's fine to be passionate about stuff, but at the end of the day you can step back and see, it's only a video game.

And yes, they took a lot of stuff the wrong way because they forget context.

 

[Chancey289]

*sigh* ok.

Games usually cost around 20-50 million to produce on the ps3 or 360. They need at least 1.3m to 1.5m to make a profit.

"

Average 20-50 million?

I think you made a mistake here.

 

[Viper]

Average 20-50 million?

I think you made a mistake here.

I googled it and it seems that this is a true claim for big titles, price of game development has recently risen to very high levels.