does DmC reboot actually have deeper combat then DMC 4

[Dantenevercries]

i read this from a poster at Neogaf defending DmC

"I'm not gonna go over it in much detail on my phone at 4am. But I'll humor you. Ignore the mispells.

- lack of aggression: old DMC wasnt that aggressive even on DMD. Similar levels of aggression. They're nowhere near Ninja Gaiden level. Being airborne in DMC3 completely removes the threat from well over half the nonboss enemy roster. Enigma, Fallen, Bloodgoyle, Lust (VH+DMD only), Dullahans, Damned Knights are the only ones who can hit you while you're midair.
- dumbed down combos: you can do more moves per weapon. It also introduced/refined mechanics like pull back, pull forward, aerial dash attacks, ground to air dash attacks and a delayed MANUAL knockup detonator (kablooey). Blue Rose, while offering both KB/KAway, was automatic. Vergil was fun as hell, and has WAY WAY more mobility than DMC3 Vergil can dream of.
- restrictive gameplay: how so? Just because it didn't have styles in 4 that were actually subpar compared to 3? Junk royalguard. Totally underwhelming Darkslayer (2 JCuts??). Mediocre Gunslinger. Removal of Crazy Combos and Wall Run. Imagine the excitement of pros when real time style switching was announced. Imagine the possibilities! Too bad they nerfed most of them, so DMC4 Dante can't be a lot stronger than DMC3 Dante when played to the absolute limit. If DMC3 got a mod than enabled style switching and 3 weapons, it'd be the better game.
Enemies arent even well designed for Dante, who was clearly an afterthought. Did I see anyone whine about the lag 4 introduced? RG is very clunky. JC Shotty can't be done as fast as 3. Gilgamesh is slower than Beowulf, and less practical than Ifrit. Pandora is TOO immobile; the gunship was laughable in a bad way. You can't buffer Round Trip while using other weapons and I believe the same applies to guns. Generally less cancelability on everything. I could go on and on about the technicalities. Lucifer was good though.
- easier: did anyone of you actually find DMC4 hard on your first playthrough under Devil Hunter, but actually beat past DMDs? Be honest. It was damn easy. I beat DMC4 DMD itemless on a KEYBOARD without much fuss. Does that make the game ****poor easy? No. I'm just used to it and so many many other people who played through DMDs many times.
- other stuff. 4am but I'll get back to you tomorrow.

DmC gets too much nitpicking **** mainly from "fans" who didn't dig very deep into past DMC titles. You very rarely ever find people hating on the game who DID dig into the mechanics.

It's not a perfect game. Lack of lock on and color coded enemies are still big negatives. Donte's heavy weapons don't work super great in combos. 30FPS for consoles."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=739825&page=3


he's defending DmC reboot

 

[Demi-fiend]

If DMC3 got a mod than enabled style switching and 3 weapons, it'd be the better game.

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

DmC gets too much nitpicking **** mainly from "fans" who didn't dig very deep into past DMC titles. You very rarely ever find people hating on the game who DID dig into the mechanics.

Well, there are a few "pro-players" out there (like spawnshooter and chastertech) who never cease to give the game ****. But I see his point.

It's not a perfect game. Lack of lock on and color coded enemies are still big negatives. Donte's heavy weapons don't work super great in combos. 30FPS for consoles."

Thank you. A balanced post from an unbiased fan. This guy was probably one of the few sane people on that site to begin with.

 

[seraphmaycry]

i havn't touched DmC in months and play dmc3 daily, my opinion is obvious.

i find DmC good for newer players, but it's a story based game experience, you play through once and that's it (i don't find the "choice" system in games very good so no replay-ability) after beating DmC on dante must die, i made a few horribly edited videos and got bored because there was to little depth to combat.

dmc3 is frustratingly impossible on DMD and the game had alot of techniques to learn some obvious, royalguard and jump cancel and some of them less obvious, like how a well timed dte is devastating or getting a freind to go doppelganger team-up.

so dmc3 is harder and has more to learn but DmC is a great expereince for new players, that's how i see the combat done

also being arborn removes threat? sure buddy, if you can learn how to keep a good and stylish combo going in the air with all those jump cancels around and i have been hit plenty of times when i thought jumping and shooting ebony and ivory was a good idea.

im on the dmc team if you havn't noticed already.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

IMO not a hope dmc4's combat is insane and the possibilities in it are nigh on endless its vastly superior to the reboot as is dmc3 its got more depth more fun and more challenge I do like the reboots combat but its inferior its streamlined and made easier t attract new fans this removes the hook the old DMC games had so no the reboot s good but falls behind

 

[DragonMaster2010]

DMC4 has more deeper gameplay obviously.

But deeper gameplay doesn't always equal fun for me. DMC4 has a sh*t ton of mechanics that I could hardly care for, and some that I hardly find myself using at all. I find it a bit jarring when I don't use all the moves of a game nor buy all the moves of the game if I can just get by with rebellion and ebony and Ivory. Like there's no use for the other weapons or styles besides swordmaster.

I prefer DmC since I do need to use other weapons to get by through story and gameplay. Sometimes I don't want to master this entire button layout or have to press three buttons to do one attack. DmC is what Hack n Slashing use to be back in DMC1's period, minus the difficulty spike; just hacking and slashing with a weapon with shooting added in, and that's what I prefer then some clusterf*ck of mechanics that I won't even bother to use.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Round Trip > Tornado = S
Demon Dodge > Overdrive = dead boss

Very deep.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Round Trip > Tornado = S
Demon Dodge > Overdrive = dead boss

Very deep.

DMC4
Prop shredder> three knights giant energy ballshot = SSS
Devil Bringer> three knights giant energy ballshot = SSS
Uppercut punch+DT> Berial=Life drained in half
Don't see a difference.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Round Trip > Tornado = S
Demon Dodge > Overdrive = dead boss

Very deep.

So, you think damage values and how they bring about SSS is depth, so I just modded the game so it was impossible to get SSS, and removed all of Dante's moves you'd suddenly think it was super deep.

This is what bothers, thh same bullshit about, oh its great for newcomers and bullshit like that. It's a helluva of fun game with an amazing combat system, style meter and combat potential are two completely different things. If depth to you means, frustratingly hard controls, and cheap enemies than yeah DmC is less deep, but if you care about killing demons with style than DmC is extremely deep.

TL; DR, DmC has one of most fun, fluid, intuitive, and deep combat systems ever made.

 

[OppressedWriter]

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

Well, there are a few "pro-players" out there (like spawnshooter and chastertech) who never cease to give the game ****. But I see his point.

Thank you. A balanced post from an unbiased fan. This guy was probably one of the few sane people on that site to begin with.

I also think some of the pros don't have a proper PC to handle the game, and just never were willing to really give it a chance, if you're mastered the old control scheme then even if a new one seems better designed you have a crapton of muscle memory that makes it hard for you to adjust.

 

[Dantenevercries]

I also think some of the pros don't have a proper PC to handle the game, and just never were willing to really give it a chance, if you're mastered the old control scheme than even if a new one seems better designed you have a crapton of muscle memory that makes it hard for you to adjust.

so you actually believe that DmC combat is deeper then DMC 3/4? lol

 

[DragonMaster2010]

so you actually believe that DmC combat is deeper then DMC 3/4? lol

In terms of mechanics, and canceling; I believe DMC3/4 are superior, and I'm sure he agrees.

But in terms of stylish looking gameplay, and fluid weapon switching mixed with the need to choreograph your combos as if you were making a movie and using the weapon switching and canceling to make your final strike look just beautiful with the close up effect; DmC is superior in doing what the original goal of Devil May Cry was that DMC3 and DMC4 kind of failed to do; make you feel like you're playing an action movie filled with stylish combat.

 

[Dantenevercries]

In terms of mechanics, and canceling; I believe DMC3/4 are superior, and I'm sure he agrees.

But in terms of stylish looking gameplay, and fluid weapon switching mixed with the need to choreograph your combos as if you were making a movie and using the weapon switching and canceling to make your final strike look just beautiful with the close up effect; DmC is superior in doing what the original goal of Devil May Cry was that DMC3 and DMC4 kind of failed to do; make you feel like you're playing an action movie filled with stylish combat.

still i think pros prefer DMC3/4 for its deeper and more fun combat.....

 

[DragonMaster2010]

still i think pros prefer DMC3/4 for its deeper and more fun combat.....

It's to do with the challenge of the mechanics and the feeling of succeeding in mastering the game.

Personally, I just prefer hacking and slashing while looking cool in DmC as oppose to glitching all over the place in DMC4.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Maybe to some JC in dmc4 is glitching but it still takes a high level of skill to master it all and put it together fluidly without mistakes and JC is in the reboot too but as its not got the styles or guard flying rave cancels etc it looks less messy to some but that doesn't make it better I think the reboots combat is brilliant but when I play bp on dmc4 and destroy bosses in the air jc'ing them star raving around them or breaking them with royalguard and air juggles and attaxks I love it its fun it keeps me focused and it looks insane I really like the reboot but I wouldn't spend hours on it at a time as I get bored of it after a while I don't have that with dmc4 although juggling enemies wit Aquila JC I the air is pretty cool I prefer to teleport to my enemies and guard fly off em than pulling them to me if me to them but I still hold the reboot in high regard all the same its a great game so I hope this hasn't offended anyone

 

[InfernalOverkill]

This is what bothers, thh same bullshit about, oh its great for newcomers and bullshit like that. It's a helluva of fun game with an amazing combat system, style meter and combat potential are two completely different things. If depth to you means, frustratingly hard controls, and cheap enemies than yeah DmC is less deep, but if you care about killing demons with style than DmC is extremely deep.

I didn't say it wasn't a fun game. And no, difficulty alone doesn't make a combat system deep. Take DMC2's Bloody Palace for example; having 300 goats flying around makes it quite hard, doesn't mean DMC2 had a deep combat system.

Was DmC a fun game? Yeah. I honestly don't understand people who hate Donte so much that they say DmC is the worst/one of the worst games ever. Despite being fun, did DmC have a deep combat system? Maybe if it came out 10 years ago you could say that, but seeing as it came out in 2013, after DMC3 and 4, after other games like Bayonetta and GoW came out? It's lacking.

It's to do with the challenge of the mechanics and the feeling of succeeding in mastering the game.

Personally, I just prefer hacking and slashing while looking cool in DmC as oppose to glitching all over the place in DMC4.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of the best gameplay mechanics around started out as glitches; rocket jumping, skiing in Tribes, combos from SF 2, etc.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of the best gameplay mechanics around started out as glitches; rocket jumping, skiing in Tribes, combos from SF 2, etc.

Never said it was bad. I just founded a bit ironic that the nirvana of Devil May Cry gameplay was discovered by a glitch.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Despite being fun, did DmC have a deep combat system? Maybe if it came out 10 years ago you could say that, but seeing as it came out in 2013, after DMC3 and 4, after other games like Bayonetta and GoW came out? It's lacking.

You're joking about GoW right, you can't be serious if you think any game besides maybe Bayonetta and DMC4 have anything on DmC's combat. I say maybe because Bayonetta has too much QTE for my liking. and Dante in DmC has 95% of the moves he did in DMC4. So, I"ll say it again, DmC has the one of the most in depth and intuitive combo systems ever made in the hack and slash genre.

Show me this in GoW or even Bayonetta (this isn't fair, because Bayonetta 2 I'm excited for it as well, and well most uploads of old combos are of **** quality)... And no epic cutscenes with QTE mashing don't count...

or this:

If harder inputs, less intuitive controls, shorter evade/block windows is what you think gives a game depth than you should realize that doesn't have anything to do with the depth of Dante's moveset.

DmC is easier, because its about being the best Dante in any given situation, the AI reacts to you and doesn't just mindlessly attack. It's kinda sad that most people who complain about the AI and difficulty tend to play with little aggression and if you play too defensively you never get to experience the AI in DmC as it was intended.

To me, the replay value comes from playing the levels are dictating the flow of battle myself. When enemies just mindlessly attack, or have long invulnerable windows, it becomes tedious, as if the game is dictating the flow of combat vs me doing it. Honestly, I think if DmC gets rereleased on PS4 and Xbox One, it will see a lot more popularity due to the ease of the share buttons.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Have to say the reboots combat is superior to gow by a long shot

 

[Demi-fiend]

Maybe if it came out 10 years ago you could say that, but seeing as it came out in 2013, after DMC3 and 4, after other games like Bayonetta and GoW came out? It's lacking.

Well, at least you're being fair when criticizing DmC.

 

[Demi-fiend]

If depth to you means, frustratingly hard controls, and cheap enemies than yeah DmC is less deep,

Guilty as charged. I basically live for this kind of gameplay.

but if you care about killing demons with style than DmC is extremely deep.

I can see where they're coming from, though. They think that JUST BECAUSE you have more moves in DMC4, you basically have "deeper combat."

TL; DR, DmC has one of most fun, fluid, intuitive, and deep combat systems ever made.

I'll take DmC over the cheap "PF398 Revenge" attack (laser cannon) that Pandora has any day.

DMC4
Prop shredder> three knights giant energy ballshot = SSS
Devil Bringer> three knights giant energy ballshot = SSS
Uppercut punch+DT> Berial=Life drained in half
Don't see a difference.

LIES. VIDS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Oh wait...