DMC5 Vid Says CAPCOM is Getting It Wrong

[berto]

Ok, so, yes, CAPCOM has Been Cutting Corners and Playing it Safe for Years but to just say that and pretend it's as clear cut as that is not fair. Yeah, Capcom dropped the ball throughout the whole 7th generation. They became synonymous with bad business practices in the game industry, but they are trying to turn it around and have bend over backwards trying to present a good product time after time. They might not be the creative makers they once were, the way all games tried to mimic theirs. They created genres, for f's sake, (RE & RE4, DMC) and now, not so much, but that's not because they don't want to, it's not as easy to take risks in the post-PS2 era, it costs a lot more to make AAA games than it did then and a flop would hit the company much harder now, specially because they don't have the financial stability they once had. If it cost the same to make a AAA as it did in the PS2 days you can be sure they wouldn't be as scared to screw up.

Yeah, I would love, loooveeee, for DMC5 to be a much less 'safe' title, same for RE2, I would all but literally, and maybe even literally, drop kick someone for RE2 to be a fixed camera, classic style survival horror game, to be to RE2 what REmake was to the og RE, and it's true, DMC's best titles were the ones that kicked caution to the wind and dared, but I can't fault them, not when they're genuinely trying.

Ok, how was it not a big deal when Capcom and Clover split? It was a huge deal and it did make headlines but, again, that's not how it went down. There were a lot more factors at hand than hypothetical corporate meddling and overpowering their creatives with corporate decision making. Clover made quality games that have become truly iconic but each and every single one sold like every copy came with anthrax. After much negotiation and problems with cost to sales they left not only of their own accord but with the blessings and good wishes from Capcom. There was nothing 'embarrassing' about it.

I already mentioned it but the micro transactions are not as intrusive or detrimental as all that. If the didn't exist and the game was still as hard and you'd still earn as many orbs as we've seen there wouldn't be an issue with the game not giving you enough so there is no reason for there to be an issue at all. If you don't want them don't use them. From what we've seen you don't need them to beat the game or even progress.

I understand the implication of having the two most anticipated games out of Capcom in 2019 being a DMC, something Kamiya created, and the remake to RE2, something Kamiya directed, so, yeah, gratitude, and whatnot, but what exactly would you want out of it? He's not going to get involved with either DMC5 or RE2, one is practically done and the other one is done. There is no 'let Kamiya do it' about this, as much as I'd love that, so that is a dead horse. And I would very much love that because despite the overly pessimistic interpretation from these of the events taking place there is one thing I do, whole heartedly, agree with: that the characters I fell in love with are long gone. There is only a parody of what they were left and in that I am not seeing anything to tell me otherwise and while Kamiya wouldn't be able to recreate that experience without more than just himself and his team, I do think he'd get it much closer to it than most anyone else.

I don't think this is the creative bankruptcy of a game this guy keeps saying it is (PS: Easy Auto has been a feature in every DMC game and every Bayonetta, too, not just this one), I do have hope, but there are also a lot of things I think the guy hits home with and I also have my own laundry list of issues with the game that have me concern with the final product, so I'm not going to pretend I don't see where this guy is coming from, or even disagree with the general sentiment, but I am most definitely more hopeful about the possibilities than he seems to be.

Lastly, I do think people should be allowed to express their concerns. This is the very first video I've seen of anyone saying anything negative about the existence of this game and usually every mayor title has at least a few dozens of people who are very vocal about how the game in question is going to suck and they have plenty of evidence. Have you seen the stuff being posted about RE2? But for DMC? This is all I've seen. 1 video, so maybe the guy isn't far off, that we're so grateful that the game exists we're so not willing to look at this gift horse in the mouth in case Capcom decides to never make another one, considering how long it took for this one to come into being it might not be so farfetch'd for people to eggshell across this one. I definitely don't think people are 'settling for a bad game over nothing at all.' If DMC5 looked bad, after a 11 year absence, people wouldn't stay quiet, but I do think that there is a absolute refusal to say or hear anything bad. Everytime I express any concerns elsewhere there is a huge uproar and comparisons to DmC or, basically, as odd as it sounds, I get called a DmC-lover, which everyone seems to equate hating on this game to. It's an odd mixture of the ludicrously long absence of the mainline series and the existence of DmC that seem to have people demanding everyone be happy with the game. Weird, I know, but that's the impression that I get.

fin. At least to the point by point discussion of the things the video is saying.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Ok, so, yes, CAPCOM has Been Cutting Corners and Playing it Safe for Years but to just say that and pretend it's as clear cut as that is not fair. Yeah, Capcom dropped the ball throughout the whole 7th generation. They became synonymous with bad business practices in the game industry, but they are trying to turn it around and have bend over backwards trying to present a good product time after time. They might not be the creative makers they once were, the way all games tried to mimic theirs. They created genres, for f's sake, (RE & RE4, DMC) and now, not so much, but that's not because they don't want to, it's not as easy to take risks in the post-PS2 era, it costs a lot more to make AAA games than it did then and a flop would hit the company much harder now, specially because they don't have the financial stability they once had. If it cost the same to make a AAA as it did in the PS2 days you can be sure they wouldn't be as scared to screw up.

Yeah, I would love, loooveeee, for DMC5 to be a much less 'safe' title, same for RE2, I would all but literally, and maybe even literally, drop kick someone for RE2 to be a fixed camera, classic style survival horror game, to be to RE2 what REmake was to the og RE, and it's true, DMC's best titles were the ones that kicked caution to the wind and dared, but I can't fault them, not when they're genuinely trying.

I don't know about you but the Devil Breaker system and V's playstyle looks like very unsafe design decisions and very unorthodox to me. Putting resource management with an emphasis on gambling/playing cards and managing multiple characters at once in strategic play and piece maneuverability (like its chess) in a fast paced action game about quickly chaining combos is new and out there for actions games (Chaos Legion had a similiar playstyle to V's but that didn't do all that well both critically and commercially). There has been endless debates over if these 2 playstyles are warranted in a DMC game let alone an action game.

The fact that Capcom is willing to put in this much effort, time, and money into a game from a genre that is borderline dead outside being held together by 1 company (whose games usually don't sell that well) is quite the risk if you ask me.

 

[berto]

The fact that Capcom is willing to put in this much effort, time, and money into a game from a genre that is borderline dead outside being held together by 1 company (whose games usually don't sell that well) is quite the risk if you ask me.

It's not that big a risk. The reason they put this endeavour together is because DMC4SE sold like crack glazed donuts, because if it hadn't, if they saw no financial possibilities from that, I'm pretty sure they would've just let it die off quietly as they already were. The SE was their way of testing the waters before diving in. They're doing the same with Onimusha.

 

[BrawlMan]

It's not that big a risk. The reason they put this endeavour together is because DMC4SE sold like crack glazed donuts, because if it hadn't, if they saw no financial possibilities from that, I'm pretty sure they would've just let it die off quietly as they already were. The SE was their way of testing the waters before diving in. They're doing the same with Onimusha.

Unfortunately, Onimusha ain't doin to hot. I still have my faith in Capcom, when it comes to most of their non-Street Fighter stuff, but Onimusha feels really barebones despite the improve controls and upres. The fact that is screams cash grab/follow the leader after games like Ni-Oh with its sequel on the way, and with releases of Ghosts of Tushima and Sekiro, it's all the more noticable. Apparently, they did not make a lot of copies either, even in their home country. So those sales are hurting right now. The classic, crappy, Capcom stupidity strikes swiftly once again.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Great comments in this thread overall guys :thumbsup:


Anyways:

they are trying to turn it around and have bend over backwards trying to present a good product time after time. They might not be the creative makers they once were, the way all games tried to mimic theirs. They created genres, for f's sake

I see this as being one of the main points in the video. Seeing them bend backwards totally validates the point of "CAPCOM being followers." While I agree that there's a lot of pessimism in the video, I think the video blames CAPCOM in general more than Itsuno or anyone else. CAPCOM forgot how to take risks. Definitely feels like we're only getting a DMC5 because the DMC4SE contributed a "significant amount" to their quarterly sales." I think this article is actually in the video.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-profit-jumps-100-thanks-in-part-to-devil-ma/1100-6429308/

My interpretation is that CAPCOM is valuing the good old dollar bill, (or Yen) over creativity. Overall though, I feel like I agree with more or less everything you said berto. While the video runs the risk of being wrong, it's interesting to see someone in the community at least say something different.

We'll see what happens when the game launches.

As far as the lore of the game, it does feel more DMC-oriented with the William Blake stuff. But with new things being added game by game rather than there being an overall series plan, it feels less like a solid progression, and more of a "This is what they're doing now." So again, I can't say anything about it until I see the final product.


Also kind of a side note, but I'm super confused to see people on the vid and in the comments here saying Bayonetta isn't an indie title.

To my knowledge, CAPCOM has like 3,000 employees, while Platinum has 200. Platinum is only able to make money if their titles sell well, which they are only able to fund as independent contractors receiving support from larger companies like SEGA. That's about as indie as it gets. Luckily Bayonetta has been a super successful title for them, leading to further licensing for games like Smash Bros. But it still doesn't make Bayonetta any less than an indie character. In that respect, I feel like there's a lot of confusion from people about how the industry works. In this case, any singular bad title can bankrupt the whole company, which Kamiya mentioned is exactly what almost happened had Neir: Automata not been a success. CAPCOM obviously doesn't have those problems, and still chooses to split hairs.

You can find that sourced here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...aved-platinumgames-according-to-hideki-kamiya

 

[Innsmouth]

My interpretation is that CAPCOM is valuing the good old dollar bill, (or Yen) over creativity. Overall though, I feel like I agree with more or less everything you said berto. While the video runs the risk of being wrong, it's interesting to see someone in the community at least say something different.

I think that taking risks is what undermined capcom last couple of years. The problem is in taking them they didn't really payed off. DmC, RE6, Dead Rising sequels, Lost Planet 3, all the outsourcing and even Dragon's Dogma tried to chase after new crowd, but it never showed up. So now they took step back and trying to return their splitted fanbases, which is a good thing. IT's easy to talk about creativity, but without people wanting it, it would be just some games you are making for yourself, while it shouldn't be forgotten that games are also being made for fanbases.

Also kind of a side note, but I'm super confused to see people on the vid and in the comments here saying Bayonetta isn't an indie title.

That's incorrect. Indie title is title published independant from publisher with your own costs, aka like Hellblade is indie title. Bayonetta trademarketed and owned by SEGA, not by Platinum Games.

 

[V's patron]

@KtWtWiS43
I don't think making it up as they went along was the core problem. Its easier to do that with DMC because it has a case of the week structure. Unlike KH its not barreling towards an end goal so it has more freedom to play around.

Im optimistc about DMCV tho because it does feel like they are course-correcting or trying new things that are more advantageous going forward.

 

[D.Dark]

If DMC5 looked bad, after a 11 year absence, people wouldn't stay quiet, but I do think that there is a absolute refusal to say or hear anything bad. Everytime I express any concerns elsewhere there is a huge uproar and comparisons to DmC or, basically, as odd as it sounds, I get called a DmC-lover, which everyone seems to equate hating on this game to. It's an odd mixture of the ludicrously long absence of the mainline series and the existence of DmC that seem to have people demanding everyone be happy with the game. Weird, I know, but that's the impression that I get.

Agreed. Back when they revealed the E3 I really despised the realistic look(had me confused for DmC 2 for a bit), also hated the fact that some Nico was taking up a portion of the runtime, and the fact that my man Dante is getting sidelined. Well, the subreddit bashed my skull in, I still tolerated, but their defense of the microtransactions was what killed it for me. I understand it might not affect the game, but it's very existence is an insult and test to see how much they can get away with.

I don't know why Capcom went all Grey and Dark this gen, when they were the only source of colour last gen. I would have rather the game look like those awesome DMC4 Pachinko cutscenes.

I don't like how Itsuno seems like he really wants to throw away Dante.

I don't think anything can continue on like nothing happened after a 10 year absence. Look at Beyond Good and Evil, God of War. It honestly feels like a soft reboot just like those, just like RE7. Whether Capcom admits it or not.

 

[D.Dark]

Ok. After playing the demo and watching most of the new stuff I changed my mind. Besides the graphics it basically seems like a game that's coming out right after DMC4. Still don't like the Devil Breaker system but the core seems the same. Will have to wait and see the full game to see if the characters stayed intact.