DMC3 remake idea

[Xeroxis]

*Xeroxis flies in through the window, sending shattered glass flying everywhere. He stands up, draped in a luxurious silk cape and business suit*
Guys, guys. This is the DMC forums! its ok to speculate on things that probably will never happen, and its all just hypothetical anyway, so lets have some fun! I want Dante and Vergil to do the fusion dance, and win next years world tournament. Thats my DMC 3.

Also I come here on behalf of Capcom with this here contract saying that DMC 3 is being remade, no matter how many times they get sued, so no backsies, DMC 3 remake discussions. GO.
*Jumps out the window and plummets to my dead because im not a superhero*

 

[Morgan]

They can't fuse with the Fusion Dance, it has to be with the Potara Earrings. That way the time limit is an hour, unless they go SSB, in which case it's only 5 minutes.

 

[berto]

@Morgan
I couldn't agree with any of that less but for the sake of space and time I'll just point out that A) I don't believe you can use 'in a nutshell' with more than a paragraph. It's an indication to a summary, not to indicate alterations to all mayor key points. You sir (or madam, it doesn't say in your profile) are using the expressions 'Basically' and 'In A Nutshell' in illegal formats. I'm afraid I'm going to have to report you to the grammar police, expressions and euphemisms division. You're lucky you didn't use the word literally wrong, you could get the chair for that.

The two of them only interacted for 15 minutes and Lady was racist to him for 20 of them.

Racist towards demons? C'mon. That's the same as being racist to Nazis.

 

[Morgan]

Racist towards demons? C'mon. That's the same as being racist to Nazis.

Correction. Racist towards a half demon. Which is totally unfair-- Dante didn't choose how he was born! *sniffle*

 

[berto]

Correction. Racist towards a half demon. Which is totally unfair-- Dante didn't choose how he was born! *sniffle*

The fact that he's half demon never came up. She doesn't know he's the son of Sparda, not Vergil for that matter. He's a demon, and that's as far as it goes... Though she did pull a rather d*** move by shooting him in the head for no reason.

 

[Morgan]

M11
Arkham: Yes, I was manipulated. Manipulated by a devil, named Vergil.
Lady: Vergil?
Arkham: He is attempting to bring the demon world back to this modern day. A world that Sparda once sealed off.
Lady: Sparda? I thought he was a myth.

M13
Jester: You want to know why the spell didn't break, hmm Vergil? You have two amulets, and Sparda's blood.

M16:
Lady: Why do you care so much?
Dante: This whole business started with my father sealing the entrance between the two worlds. And now, my brother is trying to break that spell and turn everything into demonville. This is my family matter.

Emphasis mine.
The fact that he's half demon never came up because again, the script is terrible and Dante never once mentioned Eva to Lady. Sparda was mentioned a LOT in the script (and that Vergil and Dante are descended from him, Dante says it himself TO Lady) but his most humanizing aspect, the fact that Eva, a human woman, was his mother and that she was murdered by demons (making him have more in common with Lady since her mother was murdered by "a demon" too) gets 0 words dedicated to it. Of course Arkham would refer to Vergil as "a devil" to play off Lady's prejudice but Dante has no reason not to clarify that he's not a full devil. Except, once more, a terrible script that doesn't make full use of what the characters know to better convey their development.

 

[WolfOD64]

DAMN, I leave the forum for two seconds and I come back to see @Morgan laying down the law on DMC3 better than I ever managed to.

Also, that "summary" of DMC3 from earlier practically made me laugh myself into a coma. Spot on and accurate as hell.

 

[Morgan]

Oh psh. With all the cutscenes in DMC3 adding up to just shy of an hour and 40 minutes, I consider my text a legitimate summary unless it took an hour to read it all. Or an Abridged version, at least.

 

[berto]

The fact that he's half demon never came up because again, the script is terrible

Wait. What? It never came up because it's irrelevant. Lady wouldn't care if Dante was half human, she, and everyone involved, would only care about the demon half so why bother bringing up the other part.

Dante never once mentioned Eva to Lady

Again, why? Because she'd treat him better? Not likely, nor would he care if she did. To just spew out your life's story just for the sake of it is the worst use of exposition and that's one sure fast way to make scripts bad.

Again, I couldn't agree less with most of what you're saying. It's pretty dismissive all around and it tells me that you'd want them to go with the 'If I was him/her I would've done this because what they did was dumb' but, truth be told, what would've it changed? Lady wouldn't stop trying to kill her father nor would she have stopped calling Dante a demon or treating him any different; changed a few lines, yeah, but she wouldn't treat him 'nicely.' She'd still tell him to 'f*** off, it's my family problem' and continue to climb. Considering she shot him in the head when she thought he was human I don't imagine she'd care about anything he'd have to say about his mother, anyway, nor would she stop trying to kill him if he ever got in her way.

Dante, for his part, provably doesn't care if she treats him nicely or cooperates with him. His mother is his private life, what happened to her is, too. Between him and, at most, his brother, so why tell Lady about her at all? To sympathize? To get her to stop saying mean things? Because she's pretty? He didn't care is she thought it was him that killed Arkham, why would he care what her opinion on what happened to his mother was? Besides, it's not like it was his mother's blood that held the key so why bring her up at all? Dante might not have a reason not to clarify his lineage but he also has no reason to do so. It'd be exposition at it's most blatant and it wouldn't do anything to move the story forward, just take up time.

 

[Morgan]

You mean... exactly like Lady ranting about her life story and how her father killed her mother to a guy that didn't give the impression that he cared in the least? That's pretty much what happened in the game. Lady asked if he killed Arkham, he made some insensitive comment, and she flew into a rage and went into this spiel about what Arkham did, how despicable he was, and how she needed to finish him off. Then she did the same thing in M16, and those are the moments people are saying brought about Dante's character development and turned him from "At first, I didn't give a damn" to "now I know what's important". Why did Lady say all that? It's not like she would know the kind of effect it would have on him, it's not like she was specifically aiming to make him less of a jerk, her mother's murder was not somehow less private than Eva's murder, and she, like him, didn't care if he treated her nicely or cooperated with her during those moments-- she didn't even bother considering that he physically saved her life twice. She still hated him. What was the point of that exposition, and what makes her so special that my suggestion that Dante exposit a bit about his mother gets this level of denial from you?

 

[berto]

Yes, because her mother's murderer and the man who killed him are both right there. Besides, he asked and she sure as hell wasn't going to not answer at during what was a very emotional situation for her at the moment.

What was the point of that exposition, and what makes her so special that my suggestion that Dante exposit a bit about his mother gets this level of denial from you?

Because it's pointless to talk about Eva. She has, literally, no bearing to the story, no more than Batman's mother did in the Dark Knight. Lady's mother is central to her motivation, her murder is a recent event, too, and her murderer is in the same building so her murder is a key point to the plot. Dante's has no relevance outside of having something in common with Lady and bringing her up would change nothing.

So, in relation to this hypothetical remake and its plot or script, I say leave it alone. This is one of the most popular DMC games around. When they remade RE1 they didn't change the dialogue to make it better, they did to fix some of the less than serious lines that didn't age well.

Plus. Denial? Seriously? I disagree with you and that equates to me just being in denial? Not like it's a difference of opinion.

 

[RadiantWolf]

According to interviews, every DMC game starting with 3 had a story penned by Bingo Morihashi, which is in turn---at least according to Capcom-- "fleshed out through consultation with American film scriptwriters."

So, yes...these scripts are partially the work of English speakers, which only makes the laughable dialogue in these games all the more baffling.

Of course, with how DMC1 was localized, I don't see how the script could've turned out much worse.


If they had instead reserved the entire Madhouse Production of the Devil May Cry Anime series for a straight-up adaptation of the novels instead of whatever failure at world-building they attempt with the whole slice-of-life filler plot with Patty etc., I would've loved it.

Just thinking about all that lavish production value with Yoshiaki Kawajiri's storyboarding while adapting that first voulme of the novels, maybe eventually bringing life to Beryl through animated form....

A girl can only dream. :'(

Man, I would love to see Beryl in animated form (as well as that Dante, since the novels as you mentioned are truer to Kamiya's vision than later versions and I will always prefer the Kamiya take).

DMC1's localization (or general lack thereof) is the reason I wouldn't mind seeing Coombs take another crack at the Dante role. I actually like Langdon's performance but Coombs injected as much pathos as he could into a broken script. The best actor in the world couldn't make some of those lines sound natural. His director did not help things, I'm sure.

I could go on and on about how much I wish the original version of Dante and his story had been the standard for the series so I probably should not in the interest of the thread keeping on point.

 

[Morgan]

Yes, because her mother's murderer and the man who killed him are both right there. Besides, he asked and she sure as hell wasn't going to not answer at during what was a very emotional situation for her at the moment.

So what you're telling me is that she was compelled to give her life story to a cold-blooded murdering demon, just because he asked and she was emotional? Really? That's what you're going with? She didn't actually have any obligation to rant to him. Again, he didn't care. In her mind, he's a murderous demon with no concept of family. It'd be like explaining physics to a mollusk. It in no way benefited anyone to hear her, least of all her. But we're supposed to accept that her ranting about stuff he wouldn't care about made him care and prompted his self-reflection. (And also that she's alright with letting her guard down in front of a killer and allowing him to walk away when he could just, you know, kill her.)

Because it's pointless to talk about Eva. She has, literally, no bearing to the story, no more than Batman's mother did in the Dark Knight. Lady's mother is central to her motivation, her murder is a recent event, too, and her murderer is in the same building so her murder is a key point to the plot. Dante's has no relevance outside of having something in common with Lady and bringing her up would change nothing.

No. You keep insisting that she's not relevant in the same game where Arkham mentions her relationship with Sparda as part of "the story of Sparda" and in "the book of ancient legends". The game where they're using her amulet, the amulet stated to be "the only memento left from the mother you both lost". The game whose manga has the Mad Hatter point out that Dante is obviously seeking vengeance for her murder and covering it up with a demon-hunting business, and whose Note of Naught art book says her death is the reason Vergil seeks power. This game. You're disagreeing with the very script and supplementary material that pins her as central to Dante's and Vergil's characters.

Plus. Denial? Seriously? I disagree with you and that equates to me just being in denial? Not like it's a difference of opinion.

Well, yes. I wasn't making a psychological assessment of you. I'm saying "this thing should have been in the script because the characters would benefit from it, and the script is filled with redundancies and poor word choice" and you are declaring that untrue and denying that the characters would benefit from it. A series built on "I need to share my life story with a total stranger"/"This total stranger already knows my life story" can't stand a mention of one more family member, when she's already been mentioned but the issue is placement.

 

[WolfOD64]

Because it's pointless to talk about Eva. She has, literally, no bearing to the story, no more than Batman's mother did in the Dark Knight.

Wait, wait....WHAT?
It's pointless to talk about Eva, when DANTE is concerned at all in the plot? Are you kidding me?
Eva's death is the basis behind Dante's motivation as a demon hunter, the whole reason he took up arms after her death, why he opened up shop as a freelancer in the first place: to exterminate demonkind one fiend at a time until, in his own words, he "hits the jackpot" and eventually confronts Mundus. That was the sole, concrete, hard-boiled aspect of Dante's character that made any of the serious scenes in the first game work, and the primary motive that builds up his most important confrontation of the series! How is it not relevant? How is Eva pointless??? She's the whole reason he became a Demon Hunter in the FIRST PLACE.

But, wait...

If what you're saying is actually true of how the third game is written, and Eva really is dropped to irrelevance, then DMC3 retcons the first game in a way I never even comprehended prior to this.

Dear God, I just realized how this makes everything about Dante's characterization in 3 so much worse...
The way Dante is so inexplicably carefree and non-committed to his role as a demon-slayer in 3, how he's actually lacking resolve and focus as a demon hunter as an ACTUAL PLOT POINT, in an attempt to flesh out his origins and emphasize how he doesn't have an actual purpose for fighting until he meets up with Lady and has that whole epiphany about "not giving a damn" and "now knowing what he hes to do". So basically, this game completely contradicts every vengeful and determined trait we were led to believe Dante had throughout his whole life up to the first game. DMC3 actually manages to BLOCK one of the most vital aspects of Dante's character that Mikami and Kamiya established in the first place by making him a flamboyant and directionless doucheclown for the entire game, when it was established that he spent his whole life growing up in pursuit of hunting his Mother's killer. This might be the biggest screw-up of the entirety of DMC3's script, and it's a direct middle finger to everything that was established by the original creators of the first game.

I'm actually in shock. After all these years, there was another reason to hate DMC3 that I was never even aware of...and it actually might be the most heinous thing about the game, because it tainted something I loved about the first game.

I don't even know what to say. Is there ANY aspect of DMC3 that didn't systematically taint the series?

 

[Viper]

@WolfOD64
Technically, you can say that DMC3 Dante was lost and without true purpose, except to survive the only way he knows, something like the one from first novel, although that Dante has excuse of amnesia. If we look at it that way, then seeing Lady fighting with all her might, despite the overwhelming odds, he became inspired to take up his sword in name of his mother, Lady's mother and all the people that can't fight for themselves. Granted, it would be nice if they did include more Eva in all this, but it's done now and maybe they do something more in the future.
Kalina Ann and her death were going to be explored in the third volume of the manga, but that got dropped, so everything was left too ambiguous.

 

[WolfOD64]

@WolfOD64
Technically, you can say that DMC3 Dante was lost and without true purpose, except to survive the only way he knows, something like the one from first novel, although that Dante has excuse of amnesia.

Exactly. There, at least Dante had an excuse for not being aware or for being marginally complacent in the face of demons with his real motivations tucked away. The implication of DMC1 that Dante's desire to pursue Mundus from childhood still thrived in that version of the story, albeit dislodged momentarily due to the amnesia...a plot thread that was actually used again in DmC, and quite effectively.

DMC3 has absolutely no excuse. He remembers Vergil just fine, and all his memories are perfectly intact...he just does't care. He is, as you say, lost and without true purpose...which is an absolute, wretched contradiction to the brewing, driven malice Dante had in DMC1, that was supposed to baste and pave his road to becoming a Demon Hunter by the time of his fateful encounter with Trish...the same malice that DMC3 chucks away by having of all things, Lady be the thing that provides him the drive. Forget his mother, the person who literally died protecting him...no, the thing that breaks him out of the obnoxious and aggressively-insensitive swagger is a complete stranger's family issues, not his own.

This takes the sole character arc of Dante's entire persona in the first game, the narrative force propelling his entire reason to fight Mundus and be a Demon Hunter at all, what makes Trish's resemblance and the basis of his moral compass throughout the entire story....and takes a rancid dump all over it.

This makes literally every narrative liberty taken in DmC seem like nothing. At Ninja Theory didn't take the entire foundation of Dante's origins and put a bullet into its head.

It's insulting. Offensive, even.

 

[Foxtrot94]

I think I get what berto was saying. While Eva is still the reason why he fights, and he never forgot that - as wearing her amulet and "taking good care of it" cause "it's the only memento from the mother he lost", to quote Arkham, indicate (he wasn't "lost and without purpose") - she and her death weren't the focus point of the story this time around. @berto, correct me if I interpreted your post wrong.

That epiphany with Lady was about making him realize how it's his responsibility and his duty to stop his brother cause he's his kin. Something strictly concerning that specific story. Not meant to set up the reason why he is a demon hunter. He already was one and he didn't forget why he is, as I explained above. That epiphany and him being a demon hunter because of his mother ain't mutually exclusive concepts.

Then, at the end of the game, we get to see how he's grown to be a more compassionate person, with a higher sense of empathy, traits that will carry on to his DMC1 persona.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

No surprise that nobody can keep to the actual topic.

I...whatever. Not like you guys listen anyway.

 

[Foxtrot94]

No surprise that nobody can keep to the actual topic.

I...whatever. Not like you guys listen anyway.

Sorry.

On the other hand, I don't know what else is left to say about the actual topic.

 

[RadiantWolf]

That is maybe something that COULD go into a DMC3 remake, though, isn't it? Giving Dante back his sense of purpose?

I kind of feel like some of the fumbling of his character stems from a lack of understanding of Kamiya's original concept. Kamiya once said (and the first games and novels reinforce it) that Dante purposefully acts cocky partially because he really is that confidant and partially because it's just an act intended to throw off his enemies. If he acts fearful or angry he believes the demons he hunts will be able to get to him, right? I don't see any reason that quality could NOT be re-injected into the DMC 3 script and fairly easily.

The second novel has some interesting ways of showing the quality without making Dante ever crack as he does in DMC1 (a major part of that story being he cracks and his full demonic nature starts to pour in at the end there). Little things like him telling Beryl that he does not WANT to understand her anguish because he thinks it will make him a weaker combatant, or him slipping in beside her in combat and gently warning her to stay cool.