DmC. What was missing?

[REAPER 3142]

The devil may cry reboot is easily one of my favorite games. but it isnt without its flaws or missing pieces. here are my top five:
1. Holy water- its been in every game since the first. i dont need it, but i just liked having for those oh $H!+ situations.
2. TwoSome time- Dante is a badass sword fighter, but for me, he has always been a gunslinger first and a swordsmen next. To me this move is just as recognizanle as stinger.
3. Wall Running/Wall Hike- This one just looks awesome and was fun to do. it could easily be added in, like in Darksiders 2, just hold the jump button while junping into the wall.
4. More action-y cutscenes/ Vergil- We are all aware that Dante and Vergil can fight with style. but there wasnt alot of cutscenes showing off their skills. especially vergil. more of that would have been nice.
5. Angels- Holy Crap. I cant stress my frustration enough on this subject. I have said it plenty of times in other threads. but this was my single biggest disappointment with DmC. They could have atleast added in an angel character to help out in a few cutscenes. i mean we have phineas (Demon.). Now have an angel counter part. Someone like Castiel from Supernatural. Now that is a Badass Angel.

 

[LysseC]

Can't agree more on points 4 and 5.

 

[REAPER 3142]

Can't agree more on points 4 and 5.

yeah those were my biggest ones. the others are just kind of what i miss from the old games. im just a big dmc nerd.

 

[Angelo Moreira]

no need for holy water the game is easy enougth as it is.vergil showing off thats something I missed at least on downfall dlc because on the main story I felt Vergil was holding off for the ending.I was also a bit disapointed with angels in the game,I mean Eva was very weak =' . and Dante guns were kinda useless in contrast to Vergils swords.If DmC2 sees the light of day I hope they work on the points u said the story came out pretty good it would be a shame if we dont see what happends to Vergil

 

[DragonMaster2010]

The devil may cry reboot is easily one of my favorite games. but it isnt without its flaws or missing pieces. here are my top five:

1. Holy water- its been in every game since the first. i dont need it, but i just liked having for those oh $H!+ situations.
Game's easy enough. We got demon dodge which is a nuke ability.

2. TwoSome time- Dante is a badass sword fighter, but for me, he has always been a gunslinger first and a swordsmen next. To me this move is just as recognizanle as stinger.
Yeah, I definitely wanted this. You didn't even need a lock-on for this. But I get ricochet, and fireworks work just as well.


3. Wall Running/Wall Hike- This one just looks awesome and was fun to do. it could easily be added in, like in Darksiders 2, just hold the jump button while junping into the wall.

Well if you use Angel glide on a wall and quickly jump off it, you can do a jumping move from wall to wall.

4. More action-y cutscenes/ Vergil- We are all aware that Dante and Vergil can fight with style. but there wasnt alot of cutscenes showing off their skills. especially vergil. more of that would have been nice.
This!^

5. Angels- Holy Crap. I cant stress my frustration enough on this subject. I have said it plenty of times in other threads. but this was my single biggest disappointment with DmC. They could have atleast added in an angel character to help out in a few cutscenes. i mean we have phineas (Demon.). Now have an angel counter part. Someone like Castiel from Supernatural. Now that is a Badass Angel.

Yeah, Angels weren't even considered as much in DmC. I thought we'd see some other angels besides Eva and the ones Dante screwed.

 

[EvilX-81]

Time to bring it back up again;

ROYAL GUARD!

It just makes more sense than Demon Dodge (eventhough a combined demon/angel dodge does look cool.)

Also a taunt button would've been cool. I mean I don't really care about taunting much, but it would be rather snazzy and awesome to do with a timed kablooey or Revenant Bomb.

Also, completely agree with opening post, though I always felt like on a game where being combo crazy was the point, that the optional items felt out of place.

 

[BLACKSWIPE]

For me it would be the lack of in game costumes. I seriously wanted some cool ingame costumes, but we never seem to get any. DMC3 had a crazy abundance of them, for both Dante and Vergil. But oh well, we'll probably end up seeing it in DmC2.

 

[REAPER 3142]

For me it would be the lack of in game costumes. I seriously wanted some cool ingame costumes, but we never seem to get any. DMC3 had a crazy abundance of them, for both Dante and Vergil. But oh well, we'll probably end up seeing it in DmC2.

yeah, i was really hoping to play as dmc3 vergil in vergils downfall. even if they just kept making dlc costumes or weapon skins, i think that would be satisfying enough.like for example. all the people who were super bummed about ebony ivory and rebellions new look. make dlc skin swap of the originals. i personally favor rebellions new look, but the old E&I looked way more intimidating to me. or add in a skin swap for rebellion of all the dmc weapons like allastor, sparda, red queen. the eryx could turn to ifrit or beowulf. osiris get a purple metalic nevan theme. just to please some people and give a little more customize-able feel to the game. as for costumes, dmc 2 dante is my favorite

 

[Jak]

The devil may cry reboot is easily one of my favorite games. but it isnt without its flaws or missing pieces. here are my top five:
1. Holy water- its been in every game since the first. i dont need it, but i just liked having for those oh $H!+ situations.
2. TwoSome time- Dante is a badass sword fighter, but for me, he has always been a gunslinger first and a swordsmen next. To me this move is just as recognizanle as stinger.
3. Wall Running/Wall Hike- This one just looks awesome and was fun to do. it could easily be added in, like in Darksiders 2, just hold the jump button while junping into the wall.
4. More action-y cutscenes/ Vergil- We are all aware that Dante and Vergil can fight with style. but there wasnt alot of cutscenes showing off their skills. especially vergil. more of that would have been nice.
5. Angels- Holy Crap. I cant stress my frustration enough on this subject. I have said it plenty of times in other threads. but this was my single biggest disappointment with DmC. They could have atleast added in an angel character to help out in a few cutscenes. i mean we have phineas (Demon.). Now have an angel counter part. Someone like Castiel from Supernatural. Now that is a Badass Angel.

i think if we get a sequel there will be more angels involved in the series. then again, think about it. earth has been taken over by demons. and thats pretty much what the angels were fighting against. so would that mean most if not all the angels are dead.

 

[OppressedWriter]

For me it would be the lack of in game costumes. I seriously wanted some cool ingame costumes, but we never seem to get any. DMC3 had a crazy abundance of them, for both Dante and Vergil. But oh well, we'll probably end up seeing it in DmC2.

you know what's the worst part, for some damn reason they really don't want us to mod a shirtless Dante, the stupid model for classic dante, if you remove his coat well his back is seethrough, the model lacks arms and the upperback, because they are covered by the red jacket. Damn you NINJA theory!

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

^ cant you get a fan made model and put that into the game as costume?

 

[OppressedWriter]

2. TwoSome time- Dante is a badass sword fighter, but for me, he has always been a gunslinger first and a swordsmen next. To me this move is just as recognizanle as stinger.

Twosome Time was replaced with Ricoshot, a move that also keeps multiple enemies in the air stylishly.

I believe this was done to merge DMC4's redundant skills that maybe didn't feel visually or mechanically interesting enough on their own, for example, the two charge levels for Ebony/Ivory in DMC4 just make your gun glow and do more damage, which isn't very rewarding to the player.

On the other hand, Twosome time, is both visually rewarding and technically useful. because it allows the player to juggle multiple enemies in the air at once while looking incredibly stylish to boot.

The problem is that these two mechanics aren't meaningful enough on their own to be wasting three buttons on the controller, and this is what Ricoshot fixes by merging the ebony/ivory charges with Twosome Time, it create a single move that retains both move's combo potential without sacrificing two additional buttons on the controller.

 

[OppressedWriter]

^ cant you get a fan made model and put that into the game as costume?

unfortunately not, editing skeletal meshes, well at least I don't know how. If we figured that out, I'd already be messing around with a shirtless dante mod, there's an artist on deviant art who already made adjustments to the base skeleton, but I don't know of a way to tell the game to load that mesh instead of the default ones.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

unfortunately not, editing skeletal meshes, well at least I don't know how. If we figured that out, I'd already be messing around with a shirtless dante mod, there's an artist on deviant art who already made adjustments to the base skeleton, but I don't know of a way to tell the game to load that mesh instead of the default ones.

i see.

 

[REAPER 3142]

i think if we get a sequel there will be more angels involved in the series. then again, think about it. earth has been taken over by demons. and thats pretty much what the angels were fighting against. so would that mean most if not all the angels are dead.

I just kind of assumed that the Angels were maybe in a sort of retreat or trying to stay hidden due to Mundus's rise to power. Maybe to avoid massive human casualties or prevent tremendous losses of their own army.

 

[REAPER 3142]

Twosome Time was replaced with Ricoshot, a move that also keeps multiple enemies in the air stylishly.

I believe this was done to merge DMC4's redundant skills that maybe didn't feel visually or mechanically interesting enough on their own, for example, the two charge levels for Ebony/Ivory in DMC4 just make your gun glow and do more damage, which isn't very rewarding to the player.

On the other hand, Twosome time, is both visually rewarding and technically useful. because it allows the player to juggle multiple enemies in the air at once while looking incredibly stylish to boot.

The problem is that these two mechanics aren't meaningful enough on their own to be wasting three buttons on the controller, and this is what Ricoshot fixes by merging the ebony/ivory charges with Twosome Time, it create a single move that retains both move's combo potential without sacrificing two additional buttons on the controller.

I would have been satisfied if inverse rainstorm was replaced with twosome time. just hold square and x and move the joystick for direction and keep ricoshot.

 

[OppressedWriter]

What I really want is the way rainstorm can be done while moving forward in DMC4, its far too stationary and realistic in DmC even though it still looks epic, and why do we need to lose invert rainstrom, they just need to add twosome time to a button combination, there's plenty left for them to do that.

 

[Kam]

Two-some time was iconic of gunslinger, and it was fun as hell, while moves like gunstinger and point blank just felt awesome. Rainstorm made it across, but I'll never understand why they went out of their way to make it look so visually stupid when every other move got a visual tune-up.

Trickster's teleport was aggressive and fun as hell, and it was removed too. Sky star and dash made it across, but sky is much slower than it used to be (though it looks much better, so there's that I guess).

Then there's royalguard, which is a bit of a tricky issue. It was an incredibly powerful style though, if not the single most powerful style in all of DMC, and that's no exaggeration. Fully mastered, royalguard could be used to negate all damage sources, while producing higher damage output than any other style in the game. I also can't overstate how freaking satisfying it felt to use. Being in the middle of a combo, and seamlessly switching to royalguard and negating a counterattack with a flawless just release felt fantastic, not just because it was powerful, but also because it was legitimately one of the harder things you could try to do in the game.

On the other hand, it was so unforgivably difficult to use properly, most players wouldn't attempt to use it in the course of normal play. Even tournament pros would avoid using the style, and pro players were often tiered into categories of who could use it and who couldn't. No matter how awesome a style is, if nobody's using it, it's not very good.

On top of that, despite how great it felt for the player, high level royalguard play was visually the most boring to watch. Here's a video; it's really long, but you don't have to watch more than a few minutes to see the point.

The player here is extremely skilled, and pulls off a ton of very impressive maneuvers here. Perfectly parrying attacks with almost no cues or visually ambiguous hitboxes, parrying multi hit attacks, at one point he's even melee attacking a blitz and then parrying the reflected damage from blitz's lightning armor. The guy here is incredible to watch...

...if you have any idea what he's doing. If you don't, he's a guy playing an "action game" where he stands in place for 90% of it and takes no damage. I've seen people linking to videos like this saying things like "look how easy and boring DMC4 was" and while it's clear that they have no freaking clue what they're talking about, their complaints aren't entirely without merit because it does look really boring.

TL;DR
royalguard, trickster, and gunslinger. One or two moves from some styles made it across, but the majority (and also the coolest) moves moves were replaced or written out. "Royalguard" is now used a lot more frequently, which is good, but it's just a hollow shell of its former (though obscure) glory

Edit - hey, someone did a video comparing DMC4 rainstorm to DmC rainstorm

that slow windup with his arms way out to the side just looks terrible, and the slow speed on the windup just makes it feel like a slow, lackluster move.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Well, I'm working on a video showing how the style system needed to be changed, and how DmC does in fact retain the vast majority of the moves that were needlessly placed into different style boxes.

Gunslinger:
Ebony/Ivory = gets rainstorm ability + twosometime
Coyote= gets fireworks, shotgun blast behind you (redundant), and shotgun stinger (redundant).
Pandora= Gets the battleship mode with missiles, the boomerang, and big dot damage effect.

DmC
Pretty much has all the moves from gunslinger without wasting buttons and requiring a total style change.
Ebony/Ivory = Rainstrom (adds inverted rainstorm) + ricoshot (effect of twosometime, and can actually juggle more than 2 enemies if charged fully)
Revenant = Gets fireworks + charged shots that cause target to explode straight into the air.
Kabloeey = An amazing little gun, probably too overpowered once you learn to jump cancel it, but it allows for some amazing combo set ups, and I personally love utilizing it for how it blows enemies straight back or back towards if you if they're facing away from you. (This is pretty much one of the parts from Lucifer, which is pretty much spread over various different moves between Vergil and Dante).

Trickster:
You get Sky Dash, Dash, Dash + lift, and teleportation with invulnerability frames

DmC
Angel Glide,
Angel pull + Angel Lift,
Angel Dodge on ground in whatever direction you point when double clicking dodge.
Angel Dodge in Air ground whatever direction you point when double clicking dodge.

Edit. Forgot you also can combine this with Demon Dodge to get that effect teleporting right on top of the enemy like you do in DMC4, once you nail a demon dodge, if you activate angel dodge within the slomo time frame you'll dodge back to the place you just dodged from, or you can dodge into another direction by pointing the stick towards it.

Swordmaster Why is this even a style?

Aerial Rave for Rebellion, Rebellion prop shredder, pretty much all the secondary moves DmC weapons have naturally mapped to the B button, because they don't waste the button by limiting it to an archaic style system.

I think like 98% of the moves from here are in DmC and w/ a more intuitive control scheme.

DmC
Aerial Rave = its done using Y, and we also have aerial roulette.
Osiris Prop Shredder = Done holding the same button, but with Osiris equipped.
Etc, you get the idea, honestly everything from swordmaster is in DmC if we are comparing similar weapons, and it doesn't require a style change.


Royal Guard
You just said it, its too difficult for majority of players and not very exciting to watch.
Also, a whole style to remap a button to block is not very smart game design. Hence, its gone.

DmC
It has Demon Dodge to take its place, which while being easy to do for anyone with average skill, is used by lots of players and look beautiful and epic in combo videos. It is also still something that can be impressive when done in certain scenarios by hardcore players. So from a game design perspective its an excellent edition.

​

I'd like rainstorm to be able to move forward as well, but that video neglects some other unique things you can do with rainstorm in DmC, like instant arbitrer drops, and what not. One way they could bring that inertia type move back is by making you have the ability to vault over and shoot or be able to run across walls and shoot at enemies beside you.​

 

[OppressedWriter]

Here's a more exciting representation of rainstorm in a combo video I made. DmC is a different type of game and I readily admit that. The best way to see it is as each level is an action movie set and you're the all powerful director in charge of it.

You see in the video from the other guy, he fails to rotate the camera as he descends that one little thing alone would make the rainstorm look 100% better and more stylish, he could also seamlessly transition into Calibur to get forward momentum, you have to judge the game and the quality of its moves by seeing how people good at the game use them.