DMC V DEMO FOOTAGE

[Foxtrot94]

First off, disclaimer, Im not saying having the side roll bound to a single button wouldn't be a good thing. It's definitely more comfortable. I'm just saying that, at the same time, I don't think it's that much of a big deal when jumping has the properties that it has.

Jumping sends you up in the air while dodging moves you quickly to another spot to avoid damage.

So that's it. It is indeed the horizontal vs vertical argument one of the things that prevent you from seeing jumping and rolling as comparable. I can get behind that and see where you're coming from when it comes to some scenarios but not that much of a big deal, imo. You're still avoiding damage by going up and that's what matters in a dodge anyway. Once again, i-frames.

Because you can spam the dodge button but you can't spam the jump button.

Oh, I get what you mean now (even though spamming a long recovery move like the roll would be a bad idea anyway). But actually, you sorta can. If you tap the jump button just lightly instead of giving it a hard press, your jump gets a much smaller arc, which makes you land your feet onto the ground a lot faster, allowing you to input your next jump pretty quickly and so on and so on (note that you still get i-frames by doing so). I always used this to get past the laser corridor without Trickster or as Nero for example, when the lasers are close to each other and a "full" jump would just make me land on the next laser instead of the gap in between the two.

So the git gud approach?

Nah. It's not really that difficult to pull off at all. Since jump is cancelable so early, you don't need particularly fast reflexes, there isn't a strict time window or anything like that. It's actually a pretty commonly known "trick", and everyone can do it. Even I could, back when I first played the game, back when the only real action game I had ever played was DMC3 and was, by all means, what you could describe as a newbie. It is far more complicated to explain it than to do it, all of what I'm explaining here is, don't get fooled by that. LOL. All of this stuff is no advanced tech or anything of the sort.

As I said, ain't saying a single button dodge wouldn't be nice. Just that it's one of those things that tend to get blown just a bit out of proportion, imo, considering the context of DMC's mechanics, that's all. I too would like to be able to sideroll with just one button, don't believe otherwise. But at the same time, I'm personally not really that bothered if that's not the case.
If you guys are THAT put off by it, then all I can say to you is I'm sorry that you probably won't be able to enjoy the game the same way as the rest of us. And I'm not being sarcastic, in case that idea pops up in someone's mind.

As far as I've seen there isn't much you can do in this build of the game. In fact, in this build they didn't include the buster DB, which they showed off in the IGN gameplay footage.

Matt said in interview that the public build does have some features intentionally locked off, while Xbox staff and I'm assuming journalists too got to experience a version with those feaures unlocked.

 

[berto]

So that's it. It is indeed the horizontal vs vertical argument one of the things that prevent you from seeing jumping and rolling as comparable.

2 things. Jumping is compatible, jumping is a legitimate option. If it works it works but only if the occasion calls for it. You wouldn't jump on a downward vertical attack. But your air mobility and your ground mobility are vastly different and when you are in the air a dodge would add another option to the mobility.

Once again, i-frames.

And that's stepping into advanced combat territory. It might not be hard but it's still an advanced skill and for your standard gamer, one who isn't a dedicated DMC player, those that don't go beyond what the tutorials offer, that's not really an option. By extension, that means that there is nothing new in that aspect of the game. It means that if you are already familiar with those mechanics you are basically playing with the same tools as in 4, nothing new.

But actually, you sorta can.

Yes, but, again, it's a matter of mobility. When you do a small jump, a hop, you are almost stuck in place. A dodge, the side roll, covers a wider area, you are able to go to further places, away from follow up attacks, towards other enemies, whatever. It's not about having one or the other, it's about being able to do both, it's about the options given to the player, and in the case of the side roll, it's about being able to do it more efficiently through a single input rather than 3.

It's actually a pretty commonly known "trick", and everyone can do it

But it's still a process vr a dedicated function. It's jump -> aim+style vs tap trigger.

Just that it's one of those things that tend to get blown out of proportion, considering the context of DMC's mechanics, that's all.

Fair enough. That seems to be the consensus after DmC. That anything that was implemented in that game immediately needs to be abolished. I'm not a fan of DmC but I'm not going to dismiss something that can potentially improve this game just because it was on that one. Though I've talked to a lot of people that would burn down my house for the mere mention.

But at the same time, I'm personally not really that bothered if that's not the case.

I've said before that that's where I stand, too. I can't lie and pretend that if this is the final controller layout, something without a dedicated dodge, that I'm not getting the game. That'd be a lie. This is a day 1 purchase for me and I already have my pre-order reserved so I'm in it one way or another.

Besides, Bayonetta 3 is coming out next year so I'm solid fricking gold one or both ways.

Matt said in interview that the public build does have some features intentionally locked off, while Xbox staff and I'm assuming journalists too got to experience a version with those feaures unlocked.

My guess is that they haven't finished polishing or bug testing those features. Maybe at Pax at the end of the month or TGS. I'd say PSN but considering they're going with Microsoft for advertisement exclusivity that might not happen.

 

[Deadlegend]

Late to the party and after a long hiatus.

I dunno about you, but my face throughout the gameplay demo was like this:

 

[Goldsickle]

but my point stands pretty much whatever you input.

My point stands if all you can ever come up with are "work-around" to the system, instead of acknowledging the differences between jump and roll, as well as the pros and cons.
More explanation below.

Which jump does.

Jumping and dodging isn't the same.
We're not getting anywhere until you acknowledge the differences.

As mentioned, rolling allows you to recover more quickly than jumping.
The example I brought up before should suffice, where you roll quickly to avoid Griffin's lightning pillar spam, while shooting grenades in between dodging.
Can you jump up and shoot a grenade?
No, because some moves can only be done on the ground or air, which further differentiates roll and jump.

Which jump isn't.

It is when I'm locked on to the enemy.
I've come across situations where I roll or jump when I didn't want to.
The setup DmC implemented was just right, because you can stay locked-on to an enemy and jump sideways without any worrying of rolling when you don't want to, because dodge is on a separate button.
And then you can jump and dodge in mid-air, due to the dedicated mapping.
Because it's standardized, even Vergil can do this without needing a "Trickster" Style activated.
If this was carried over to DMCV, then Nero or even that "Vitale" can do it as well.

If your claim about AI Dante is even true, I haven't played that boss fight in a long time. I'll take your word for it.

Coincidentally, I just played Mission 10 on DMD last night before replying to your post, so I have fresh memory on being very anxious about Dante's side rolling.

 

[Foxtrot94]

some moves can only be done on the ground or air

Which is why I personally use the little hop I mentioned before instead of a full jump when I wanna do a ground move after. Its animation, in full, is as long as the roll and arguably even shorter, I get back with feet on the ground just as fast and problem solved for me, that's yet another situation where I don't really need to choose roll over jump, and when I do, it's only to add some more visual flair to the whole thing.
Maybe DMC1 and perhaps 2 work differently, haven't played those two in ages, but it's the case for 3 and 4, which are the ones I go to when I want my fix of good DMC combat anyway, and the ones DMC5 gets its basis from.

Jumping and dodging isn't the same.
We're not getting anywhere until you acknowledge the differences.

I'm aware of them. However, what I'm saying is that they barely matter in a game where jumping is as good as it is and so much better than dodging in so many ways. In this whole discussion, there was only one point that was brought up that highlights the one thing dodging really has over jumping in this game:

When you do a small jump, a hop, you are almost stuck in place. A dodge, the side roll, covers a wider area, you are able to go to further places, away from follow up attacks, towards other enemies, whatever.

Which is a point I acknowledge, it is true. A dodge can get you farther away than a jump or a hop. And as little as the instances of that actually mattering for me personally in my runs as opposed to the jump/hop's more "spammable" i-frames or its vertical distance rather than the horizontal one were, that's still a statement I can't say is countered by anything jumping can do. The horizontal distance factor is indeed a thing.

I've come across situations where I roll or jump when I didn't want to.

Oh, finally a point I can relate to. I've had that happen a few times as well. However that was mostly when a sudden change of camera happened. You know, fixed angle to a different fixed angle, which threw me off my directions. But, now that camera is not fixed anymore, I doubt I'll have that problem again.

Which ties to what @berto said about people being anal towards whichever DmC feature brought over to 5. As far as I'm concerned, sure, that game made me shake my head on a number of things but you sure won't hear me complain about the free camera, or, as much as it's far from a game maker or breaker for me, a dedicated dodge button, if they decided to put one in. As I said, I wouldn't be against it if they could find room for it on the controller.

Speaking of camera, some people say they don't like it because how close it is to Nero while not in combat. Personally I do, finally in a DMC game I can look at a character's model up close in all its high definition glory. If there ever was an action game where I wanted to do that, it's definitely this one. These graphics are drool inducing.

 

[Goldsickle]

Which is why I personally use the little hop I mentioned before instead of a full jump when I wanna do a ground move after.

Still won't help with vertical attacks like pillars of fire or explosion that affects a small area.
The good thing about rolls is that it shifts you along the ground.
The Butcher in DmC is one example where a hop won't help when it fires vertical pattern buzzsaws.
Based on attack patterns I've seen throughout the series, jumping is not "just as good" and is best or worse thing to respond with, depending on the shape of the enemy attacks.

However that was mostly when a sudden change of camera happened.

It could also happen when the enemy moves as you are inputting the commands.
The clusterf*** in LDK mode made me miss my Streak sometimes.
This could still happen because locking on to an enemy in DMCV doesn't seem to "center" the camera on them, unless there's an option.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I was debating whether I should make my own thread or post these in the News and Info thread but these aren't really news and honestly don't care to put into the effort of making a thread so I might as well put these here.

So some dudes in Resetera has been doing some digging and found there was later builds (not the show floor demo) that had a bit more to them as well as other findings from the game.

This stylish trick with Gerbera.

The fact Nero has a taunt that can rev his sword (he also has an aerial taunt that revs his sword too)

Aerial dodges are now a thing. I've noticed this during the Goliath boss fight and noticed he wasn't using Gerbera but was able to maneuver around the boss mid air without getting hit. I've noticed at times you might be able to jump cancel (or Enemy Step) into an aerial dodge. Ive noticed overall basic aerial movement and jumping/Air Hiking is far more smooth and slick.

Nero has a taunt where he puts his hoodie on and it stays on. Don't know what it takes to have it removed though.

The menu. There seems to be a Photo Mode. Whatever that entails.

I though we could only pull off 2 Air Jockies at once but either this is some glitch/exploit or in a later build the player is granted an upgrade that allows far more (or unlimited) Air Jockies. Actually might be an exploit since he seems to perform an Air Hikes between them.

Nero can perform the taunt where he tosses some bullets and catches them with his gun and reloads them (like in that cut-scene in DMC4). Apparently this loads all 3 (or well technically 6) bullet cartridges for Blue Rose which can be fired off during the taunt too. Also I hear Just Release (a mechanic from DmC) is present with Blue Rose where releasing Gun Attack button upon on fully charge releases a far stronger attack.

Dodge cancelling out of attacks turns the dodge into side stepping instead of rolling. Don't know the exact specifics.

In a later build (not floor demo) from a video from the Capcomasia Youtube channel Nero uses the Gerbera Break Age move while Overture is equipped. Bug. UI Error.

Nero has this peculiar move where he drives an enemy into the ground. Some speculate its a new Red Queen move where its Lock On + Forward + Y/Triangle (because Split is now Lock-On + Back + Y/Triangle) and sorry @Goldsickle Calibur is still Lock On + Back and Forward + Y/Triangle or so it says in the demo/training room. There is another idea that its a skill available if you have no Devil Breakers left or a base skill independent of any Devil Breaker (like Wire Snatch).

That is all I got for now.

 

[Goldsickle]

sorry Goldsickle Calibur is still Lock On + Back and Forward + Y/Triangle or so it says in the demo/training room.

I just saw that on the official site, which kinda annoys me.
I guess Japanese developers will be Japanese developers.
Input complication should never be a part of the difficulty.

 

[Carlos]

I was debating whether I should make my own thread or post these in the News and Info thread but these aren't really news and honestly don't care to put into the effort of making a thread so I might as well put these here.

So some dudes in Resetera has been doing some digging and found there was later builds (not the show floor demo) that had a bit more to them as well as other findings from the game.

This stylish trick with Gerbera.

The fact Nero has a taunt that can rev his sword (he also has an aerial taunt that revs his sword too)

Aerial dodges are now a thing. I've noticed this during the Goliath boss fight and noticed he wasn't using Gerbera but was able to maneuver around the boss mid air without getting hit. I've noticed at times you might be able to jump cancel (or Enemy Step) into an aerial dodge. Ive noticed overall basic aerial movement and jumping/Air Hiking is far more smooth and slick.

Nero has a taunt where he puts his hoodie on and it stays on. Don't know what it takes to have it removed though.

The menu. There seems to be a Photo Mode. Whatever that entails.

I though we could only pull off 2 Air Jockies at once but either this is some glitch/exploit or in a later build the player is granted an upgrade that allows far more (or unlimited) Air Jockies. Actually might be an exploit since he seems to perform an Air Hikes between them.

Nero can perform the taunt where he tosses some bullets and catches them with his gun and reloads them (like in that cut-scene in DMC4). Apparently this loads all 3 (or well technically 6) bullet cartridges for Blue Rose which can be fired off during the taunt too. Also I hear Just Release (a mechanic from DmC) is present with Blue Rose where releasing Gun Attack button upon on fully charge releases a far stronger attack.

Dodge cancelling out of attacks turns the dodge into side stepping instead of rolling. Don't know the exact specifics.

In a later build (not floor demo) from a video from the Capcomasia Youtube channel Nero uses the Gerbera Break Age move while Overture is equipped. Bug. UI Error.

Nero has this peculiar move where he drives an enemy into the ground. Some speculate its a new Red Queen move where its Lock On + Forward + Y/Triangle (because Split is now Lock-On + Back + Y/Triangle) and sorry @Goldsickle Calibur is still Lock On + Back and Forward + Y/Triangle or so it says in the demo/training room. There is another idea that its a skill available if you have no Devil Breakers left or a base skill independent of any Devil Breaker (like Wire Snatch).

That is all I got for now.

Awesome post man! I refuse to read ResetEra's garbage, and I was hoping someone from here does an in depth post like this. Like for you!

So that's it. It is indeed the horizontal vs vertical argument one of the things that prevent you from seeing jumping and rolling as comparable. I can get behind that and see where you're coming from when it comes to some scenarios but not that much of a big deal, imo. You're still avoiding damage by going up and that's what matters in a dodge anyway. Once again, i-frames.

That's basically what DMC3 was. Allowed you to jump high, and then higher, with the option of air dash. From what @Stylish Nero posted, this will be completely extended, and easily controlled as you wish.

Oh, I get what you mean now (even though spamming a long recovery move like the roll would be a bad idea anyway). But actually, you sorta can. If you tap the jump button just lightly instead of giving it a hard press, your jump gets a much smaller arc, which makes you land your feet onto the ground a lot faster, allowing you to input your next jump pretty quickly and so on and so on (note that you still get i-frames by doing so). I always used this to get past the laser corridor without Trickster or as Nero for example, when the lasers are close to each other and a "full" jump would just make me land on the next laser instead of the gap in between the two.

From what I see, we're just seeing DMC3 jumping, merged with a little bit of DmC's control design. Just a little bit. The style change system (in DmC) was a nice concept, but it was a bit slow and a tiny bit clunky. However, the juggle system in DmC was slow and clunky in my opinion. So much that it ruins my thought process since I am so used to the DMC3 gameplay.

Nah. It's not really that difficult to pull off at all. Since jump is cancelable so early, you don't need particularly fast reflexes, there isn't a strict time window or anything like that. It's actually a pretty commonly known "trick", and everyone can do it. Even I could, back when I first played the game, back when the only real action game I had ever played was DMC3 and was, by all means, what you could describe as a newbie. It is far more complicated to explain it than to do it, all of what I'm explaining here is, don't get fooled by that. LOL. All of this stuff is no advanced tech or anything of the sort.

I agree here. It was knowing when to cancel. If you hold onto the jump mechanic long enough, you've already "finalized" it. But if you let go, or move your character or press the button early, you cancel it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The fact Nero has a taunt that can rev his sword (he also has an aerial taunt that revs his sword too)

Well, he had that taunt in DMC4. It did have an effect on Exceed in the UI, but it was never enough to give you a level of it. Seems they just upped the ante on it to actually rev a level.

Aerial dodges are now a thing. I've noticed this during the Goliath boss fight and noticed he wasn't using Gerbera but was able to maneuver around the boss mid air without getting hit. I've noticed at times you might be able to jump cancel (or Enemy Step) into an aerial dodge. Ive noticed overall basic aerial movement and jumping/Air Hiking is far more smooth and slick.

I'd like to see that in action. Maybe it's like a Wall Hike version of an evade, where instead of only being able to jump up, you can move to the sides or something. The idea of making Enemy Step something that can be used for more than moving upward would be interesting (Jump Cancels notwithstanding).

Nero has a taunt where he puts his hoodie on and it stays on. Don't know what it takes to have it removed though.

Looks to be an A-rank taunt. Probably getting hit knocks it down. Go go Hood Runs~ Make it happen players. Hell, I want a trophy for that, "Clear a mission with Nero's hood up."

I though we could only pull off 2 Air Jockies at once but either this is some glitch/exploit or in a later build the player is granted an upgrade that allows far more (or unlimited) Air Jockies. Actually might be an exploit since he seems to perform an Air Hikes between them.

I can imagine that using Air Hike to cancel out of Air Jockey, into another Air Jockey is what's happening? In that gif it looks like he's also touching the ground a couple of times, which of course would reset jumps and such.

Nero can perform the taunt where he tosses some bullets and catches them with his gun and reloads them (like in that cut-scene in DMC4). Apparently this loads all 3 (or well technically 6) bullet cartridges for Blue Rose which can be fired off during the taunt too. Also I hear Just Release (a mechanic from DmC) is present with Blue Rose where releasing Gun Attack button upon on fully charge releases a far stronger attack.

That's some cool stuff, although with how you reload being automatic and not something that even takes any downtime, having a taunt that reloads is...cool, but not exactly helpful? Yet, if we have a taunt that gives us levels of Exceed, then at this point, why the hell not? Plus it's nice to see a throwback to that cutscene.

Dodge cancelling out of attacks turns the dodge into side stepping instead of rolling. Don't know the exact specifics.

Most likely just a different animation for what a sideroll is. They did talk about having more fluid animations, and since if you're using your sword and you keep it on hand after an attack, making a dodging action like a sidestep with your weapon in hand certainly looks way better. Loving those little details.

Nero has this peculiar move where he drives an enemy into the ground.

Now that's a good one. Does make you wonder if there is a simple skill set when you're armless.

That is all I got for now.

Thanks for these!

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Alright I'm back from Gamescom,
and looking through this thread I don't think I can add to much to the discussion, even after playing the demo XD
Still if you want to know something about certain aspects I might be able to answer some things here and there.

 

[Carlos]

Alright I'm back from Gamescom,
and looking through this thread I don't think I can add to much to the discussion, even after playing the demo XD
Still if you want to know something about certain aspects I might be able to answer some things here and there.

How does the controls feel?

 

[Erian1Mortal]

How does the controls feel?

I felt right at home. A lot of small quality of life improvements like revving on the run, general flow of animations being smoother.
Blue Rose really pack a punch now wich I liked.
Air Taunt and Hoodie taunt were bad ass.
I still have a few gripes with the breaker system (not being able to switch freely) but overall I think we have one of the best action games in years on our hands!

 

[Carlos]

I felt right at home. A lot of small quality of life improvements like revving on the run, general flow of animations being smoother.
Blue Rose really pack a punch now wich I liked.
Air Taunt and Hoodie taunt were bad ass.
I still have a few gripes with the breaker system (not being able to switch freely) but overall I think we have one of the best action games in years on our hands!

So, it's like DMC1/3 where you'd have to go to the whatever screen (I'm guessing Nico is going to act like the divinity statue) to switch breakers...?

 

[Erian1Mortal]

you pick them up in the level or at nicos shop, you just cannot swap them in the demo.
You also have to break them to use the next one in line, but when you pick one up it becomes the currently used one

 

[TWOxACROSS]

you pick them up in the level or at nicos shop, you just cannot swap them in the demo.
You also have to break them to use the next one in line, but when you pick one up it becomes the currently used one

That is the dumbest thing ever :/

 

[Erian1Mortal]

That is the dumbest thing ever :/

I guess I'll get used to it, but Nero has 2 buttons that are unused (even in the menu screens), so that might be something that changes

 

[Carlos]

you pick them up in the level or at nicos shop, you just cannot swap them in the demo.
You also have to break them to use the next one in line, but when you pick one up it becomes the currently used one

That's dumb. I understand picking up breakers and the bullets in the level, but what it sounds like is that once you pick up the breaker, you'd have to go to Nico's shop or have them break just to swap them. Thing is, it sounds like the save system is far and wide. (Lost Planet 2)

I think it's a trade-off for having the ability to swap weapons, styles, or secondary weapons (shotguns, Artemis, etc.)

Would the demo be available on PSN anytime soon?

Not for a long while. Spring's like ...6 months away. Mega Man 11 is getting a demo next month, a month before it's released...

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Alright I'm back from Gamescom,
and looking through this thread I don't think I can add to much to the discussion, even after playing the demo XD
Still if you want to know something about certain aspects I might be able to answer some things here and there.

Have you noticed any improvements to aerial combat? For example, DmC added more aerial attacks that could be chained together, as well as angel pull.

Did it seem to pull from DmC in this regard, or did it go back to DMC4?

 

[Foxtrot94]

You also have to break them to use the next one in line

That's what I was worried about. Gotta be the most limiting mechanic I've ever seen in Devil May Cry alongside DmC's color coding. But then again, you did tell me you didn't test what the DPad does, so I guess there's still hope. Otherwise I'd be pretty disappointed. Breakable weapons and anything of that sort doesn't belong in DMC.