DmC originally was going to have lock on right?

[OppressedWriter]

I know. I was trying to say that there really wasn't any difference (not backpedaling, just getting "lost"), and that there wouldn't be all that much of a difference, anyway.

Yeah, I was actually trying to suggest that tapping the buttons would be better, but Sam Delirious (ha-ha) up there set the record straight when he said that holding is actually faster.

I think... he might be right. He's got more than a good chance of being right, now that I think about it.

Should more fighting games use the shoulder buttons for certain "hold" functions? Who knows?

I wish MGR used something like that, anything besides the way it is now, it maps so many things into double inputs with attacks, its forward + attack for parry, its jump + attack for dodge, its like hey, you know platinum that button B was just stiting there not doing **** besides occasional QTE prompts and pressing buttons to open doors that masked loading screens.

Also speaking of lock on, its absoultey atrocious in MGR, and its only useful in one on one battles, which makes me wonder why it doesn't just auto lock in one on one battles. Aside from the sundowner fight, which didn't need a stupid helicopter to be honest, every boss battle would be fine with the game assuming auto lock on. But what do I know, I must be a casual if I don't like cheap difficulty.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Instead of sky star glide being a style you toggle into + style button. Now its something that makes sense its angel trigger + jump, it modifies the button that makes you jump into the button that gives you a glide. Its things like that make it a much more logical and intuitive control scheme.

You know, I've never really liked the "glide", despite the fact that it's... maybe a little better than the Sky Star (especially for platforming purposes).

I've always found that using that midair dodge is a better option. I'm not used to working the Glide into my combos.

Edit:

I still don't like double-tapping forward for Stinger though. Nope, not a fan (in Godhand, you had to double-tap forward just to run... I hated it then, and I hate it now).

 

[OppressedWriter]

You know, I've never really liked the "glide", despite the fact that it's... maybe a little better than the Sky Star (especially for platforming purposes).

I've always found that using that midair dodge is a better option. I'm not used to working the Glide into my combos.

Edit:

I still don't like double-tapping forward for Stinger though. Nope, not a fan (in Godhand, you had to double-tap forward just to run... I hated it then, and I hate it now).

Well, it's pretty useful in combos and dante does have a double air evasive manueuver, its called angel dodge, courtesy of the triggers, you tap dodge, then tap dodge again to dodge in place, or you can input a direction on the stick to dodge in another direction, you can do some really wicked stuff combined with glide, since when you teleport dodge, it slows down time, and leaves enemies hovering for longer.

As for the forward forward input, its really not problematic in DmC, I mean I assume if you're used to spamming it so you can move a target into a corner I guess you might have to get better, but honestly that isn't really necessary or even something you should be doing. You have a ton of moves you can use to quickly push targets, the best of which is calibur, its an aerial stinger, and it requires no inputs, just press angel trigger + B.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I wish MGR used something like that, anything besides the way it is now, it maps so many things into double inputs with attacks, its forward + attack for parry, its jump + attack for dodge, its like hey, you know platinum that button B was just stiting there not doing **** besides occasional QTE prompts and pressing buttons to open doors that masked loading screens.

Also speaking of lock on, its absolutely atrocious in MGR, and its only useful in one on one battles, which makes me wonder why it doesn't just auto lock in one on one battles. Aside from the sundowner fight, which didn't need a stupid helicopter to be honest, every boss battle would be fine with the game assuming auto lock on. But what do I know, I must be a casual if I don't like cheap difficulty.

Oh God... that double-input was SPECTACULARLY awful. It takes my philosophy of putting everything into one button, and ****s on it so hard, that I can't even dig it up.

I'm guessing it's because they don't want the player to think that Platinum has gone "soft" by giving them the option of auto-lock (not even "toggle-lock"? really?).

And yes. You are a noob casual. Don't ever show your face here again.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

my point is the two dodge buttons is unnecessary, you could easily preform a demon or an angel dodge with either R1 or L1. My point is , using one of those buttons instead for a lock on, wouldn't have exactly been that bad

So then, you suggest sacrificing the dodge functions' ease of use to have a lock-on function that's pretty much unnecessary? @_@

Yeah, I was actually trying to suggest that tapping the buttons would be better, but Sam Delirious (ha-ha) up there set the record straight when he said that holding is actually faster.

Haha, I've thought about it, and while it's a seemingly minuscule time-shave, holding down and then releasing a finger from a button is always gonna be faster that tapping, because tapping requires double the finger movement.

Gah, it sounds so stupid to discuss, haha.

Should more fighting games use the shoulder buttons for certain "hold" functions? Who knows?

This...could actually be an interesting thing they could make use of. I'm not sure how, but...it's something I'd be interested in seeing explored.

 

[Demi-fiend]

You have a ton of moves you can use to quickly push targets, the best of which is calibur, its an aerial stinger, and it requires no inputs, just press angel trigger + B.

Yeah, I admit, I spam it 'cause I think it looks "cool", and I kinda suck.

-- Good point. I'm no longer using that crap Stinger and will just go with "Angel Push" or Caliber from now on... unless I'm down to the last enemy, that is.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

So we have:

"Mix-in" combos (the ones where you can continue the same combo with a different weapon... we really need a better name for this).

And... "Hold" mechanics.

Which is actually FASTER than switching. But we can only hold two buttons (technically four, if you want to use your middle and forefingers (hurr hurr)) at a time.

So... DmC is technically better, but only has "better-than-average" execution (you know what I'm talking about).

Ok... so, if we can just have the option of a hard lock-on (no I'm not letting this go) though a toggle function with the Select (or PS4 Share) button, alongside an autolock option, then I think we can have an even better game.

That, and just tighten up all aspects of gameplay in general. Then we'll start to see a true contender for one of the "best games of all time".

 

[AgentRedgrave]

So then, you suggest sacrificing the dodge functions' ease of use to have a lock-on function that's pretty much unnecessary? @_@.

More unnecessary then two dodge buttons? Like I said it wouldn't be that hard, hell they should have used O for dodge, R1 for lock on, and L1 for devil trigger, and I don't consider lock on unnecessary

 

[OppressedWriter]

More unnecessary then two dodge buttons? Like I said it wouldn't be that hard, hell they should have used O for dodge, R1 for lock on, and L1 for devil trigger, and I don't consider lock on unnecessary

The thing is both TwoxAcross, and all the devoted DmC players use one of the dodges for Gunspecial already, and we have deviltrigger on dpaddown. I don't want to waste it with lock on when its absolutely unnecessary in DmC, I've already explained this in significant detail, I'd suggest you look through my past posts. If the only reason you'd want to hav elock on is so you could spam stinger on a particular enemy with 100% accuracy, that isn't a good enough reason to add a clunky lock on. DmC is about fast group combat, where you adapt to the action on the fly until you face your final target on which you perform the most stylish combo possible for a slow motion finish.

Also putting lock on just so you have lock on even though it blows it pointless, thats what MGR did, but you don't see anyone crapping on that game even though it works around lock on except both the soft lock and lock on both suck, so its just a wasted shoulder button that could have been used for a block/parry. And B could have been dodge, or anything else.

On top of that, the whole input thing, guess what MGR's input for stinger is forward forward + attack and it has lock on, wonder why that is. Lock on doesn't change the inputs for attacks, I think going forward all forward motion attacks will most likely be forward forward soomething lock on or no lock on.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

More unnecessary then two dodge buttons?

Given the Angel and Demon mode system that allows for three different dodges, it's not unnecessary at all. It offers ease of use.

Honestly, isn't it more unnecessary to make using those three different dodges more difficult?

Like I said it wouldn't be that hard, hell they should have used O for dodge, R1 for lock on, and L1 for devil trigger

Then we're missing a Melee Special button function, which used to be on Circle.

I don't consider lock on unnecessary

If you understood how the targeting system worked in the game, then you might >.>

 

[Demi-fiend]

The thing is both TwoxAcross, and all the devoted DmC players use one of the dodges for Gunspecial already, and we have deviltrigger on dpaddown.

That can be fixed.

I don't know how, but it most certainly can be done.

And I think there's another way to unleash the stinger other than "double-tap forward" (not so that I can push enemies away, but so that I can work it into my combos without any lag...

... this sounds like a job for the Hold function.

VDF was onto something, there. We need to work that control scheme into DmC2. It should be able to work, if done properly.

That's it, I'm starting a new thread.

 

[OppressedWriter]

That can be fixed.

I don't know how, but it most certainly can be done.

And I think there's another way to unleash the stinger other than "double-tap forward" (not so that I can push enemies away, but so that I can work it into my combos without any lag...

... this sounds like a job for the Hold function.

VDF was onto something, there. We need to work that control scheme into DmC2. It should be able to work, if done properly.

But the VDF control scheme is identical, except it uses both dodges for separate functions.... So in that scheme it would be even harder to replace one of the dodges for something else. The thing is lock on is just not something you need in DmC or a fast paced action game, during group combat if you want it to be a fluid and fast experience their really is no way a lock on that stays fixed on a target is ever going to work. Especially with how the group AI in DmC works, they actively try to work together and create phalanxes to make it harder for you to target only one of them at a time. You really have to separate them, and once you do, DmC's soft lock is excellent, it really does choose the target you're point at it and it does it so fast and naturally that its a joy to behold in light of how many games do it so poorly.

The only thing I guess you could do is well right click could be center camera + toggle lock on, but then again, I don't think this is something that would be ideal for the type of game DmC is. You're not supposed to have that much time to breath and think about picking out that one target out of the pack. You're expected to taek out whole groups of enemies at once, and when you fight specialized enemies there is really never more than 2-3 and you usually fight them in big environments so its seriously no issue to choose the right target.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Given the Angel and Demon mode system that allows for three different dodges, it's not unnecessary at all. It offers ease of use.

Honestly, isn't it more unnecessary to make using those three different dodges more difficult

It wouldn't have been that difficult

Then we're missing a Melee Special button function, which used to be on Circle.

No cause then launch attacks could still be preformed like they could in DMC1-4

If you understood how the targeting system worked in the game, then you might >.>

I understand it, I find it inferior

 

[OppressedWriter]

It wouldn't have been that difficult




No cause then launch attacks could still be preformed like they could in DMC1-4



I understand it, I find it inferior

Yeah, good argument, dude. Good to know we shouldn't take you seriously.

So, forward forward attack is too problematic and hard for you to aim in the game, but you want to complicate everything else because of one move, because you don't think its that difficult. Something tells me you haven't played DmC.

 

[Demi-fiend]

But the VDF control scheme is identical, except it uses both dodges for separate functions....

It may seem like a small difference, but trust me, it sets him apart from his twin, and improves on his control scheme quite a bit.

Not to mention the fact that the Yamato has three different forms... that alone makes it a compelling reason to follow his example in DmC2.

Just hear me out, alright? I'll present my new control scheme and gameplay functions, then you can "test" it out (theoretically -- in your head, or w/e) and see for yourself whether or not it would be ideal for your gaming needs.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Yeah, good argument, dude. Good to know we shouldn't take you seriously.

Yes cause one dodge button is sooooo difficult to work with

 

[OppressedWriter]

It may seem like a small difference, but trust me, it sets him apart from his twin, and improves on his control scheme quite a bit.

Not to mention the fact that the Yamato has three different forms... that alone makes it a compelling reason to follow his example in DmC2.

No what i mean is that his scheme is even more rigid, in that the dodges while different are nearly identical, its essentially trick up and trick down. And his dpad is used for mode toggling for his Doppelganger, essentially he has 3 weapons vs dante's 5.

My Vergil scheme is actually modified as well.


LB - Trick Up
LT - Angel Mode
RT - Demon Mode
RB - Shoot

X - Light Attack
Y - Sword Illusions/Gunspecial
B - Heavy Attack
A - Jump

Left Stick - Trick Down
Right Stick - DevilTrigger
Both sticks - Center Camera
Dpaddown - Doppelganger Delay





Toggle ranged target = None, I never even used it.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Yes cause one dodge button is sooooo difficult to work with

It's not about one dodge button, what exactly is the reason you desire lock on so badly, can you give me an example so I can debunk it and prove that you haven't really played the game?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It wouldn't have been that difficult

So...then we're just supposed to make things more difficult than they need to be because...why?

No cause then launch attacks could still be preformed like they could in DMC1-4

And then we're right back to restrictive controls, which was the whole point of Itsuno and his team wanting to get rid of lock-on...

Not to mention that then how do you perform an R1+Back action while holding a shoulder button for Angel or Demon mode. That's a lot of sh!t to hold when the default system works so much easier.

I understand it, I find it inferior

"Waaaah~ I can't make this system work! It sucks!" Seriously...that's what I'm getting out of this right now. You don't like it, can't make it work, so therefore it's inferior?

 

[AgentRedgrave]

It's not about one dodge button, what exactly is the reason you desire lock on so badly, can you give me an example so I can debunk it and prove that you haven't really played the game?

I played and beaten the game, and Like I said I've had moments where a lock on, would have come in handy

 

[Demi-fiend]

I'm telling you guys, I can improve this system and still keep the "freeflow" mechanics in there... somehow.