DmC Allegory

[EllDawn]

Going by risks and responsibility, a lot of the working class make a lot of what we have possible. Without people to work in the power plants, electricians, anything to do with electricity, we'd all pretty much be in the dark. And working with electricity can be pretty dangerous, even if you're careful. The problem is that even the basest of jobs have a lot depending on them. Military jobs, yes they deserve compensation for putting their lives on the line. I don't think they get it here in America. I have a brother in the army and he and his wife have to be careful with their money. It's been easier since he got promoted to a desk job, but still difficult.

If you're going to quit school, I hope you all ready have a job. As you said, employers don't want to take risks.

I tend to think they're looking for both dedication and know-how. Having one without the other doesn't help the business much. They still have to take a chance to find out just how dedicated a person is, though.

Yeah, in a lot of them. There's a nursing home in the town next to where I live that was great. They took care of their residents, made sure they bathed each day and ate. Some nurses would sit with residents and encourage them to eat. Then they got a new manager. Now residents are bathed once a week, they've cut back on their medications (against doctors' orders), and probably don't supervise as much. And this is the lighter incidents that can happen. There have been stories about patients being physically abused. I haven't heard of that happening around here, but it does happen.

Actually, kind of both. Some are well enough to live on their own, but not to work. Those that require a motorized wheel-chair, or need oxygen, can fall into that category. They have enough mental consciousness to live alone while the chair, or tank, and their age keep them from getting a job. That's going by problems that are visible. If it's one that's not visible, it's still the person's age holding them back.

 

[Lionheart]

Going by risks and responsibility, a lot of the working class make a lot of what we have possible. Without people to work in the power plants, electricians, anything to do with electricity, we'd all pretty much be in the dark. And working with electricity can be pretty dangerous, even if you're careful. The problem is that even the basest of jobs have a lot depending on them. Military jobs, yes they deserve compensation for putting their lives on the line. I don't think they get it here in America. I have a brother in the army and he and his wife have to be careful with their money. It's been easier since he got promoted to a desk job, but still difficult.

True, but I'm talking about individual responsibilities. When you compare a plumber to someone who risks his life protecting you every day, it's clear that the latter is a higher risk on the individual scale. Hence the difference in wages. Besides, I don't think working with electricity is that dangerous - there's all kinds of security measures involved, and more. You wouldn't run as high a risk of dying as when you pilot a fighter jet in a warzone. They don't have the luxury of being careful; they either get shot down, get an improperly functioning plane or don't.

Not that I don't find my plumbing important, but it takes a backseat. If I need to, I can go do my business in the woods XD

You're absolutely right about the rest, and I agree. Things really need to be reformed, I think. There's still a culture of snobbishness in my country, at least. It has kept me from going to university instead of a slightly lower education we call 'HBO'. And that's really stupid, because if you finish the first year of HBO, you're allowed to go to university anyway. This does not make sense to me. Anyway, yeah, I agree with most of your points.

 

[EllDawn]

I'd have to look up the accident rate for electricians, but I do know that it's easy for a person to turn off the electricity in a house only for someone else to turn it back on. It can be fairly dangerous, even for someone that knows what they're doing. I don't know much about it, but I do know that dealing with electricity has always been something my dad would avoid at all costs. He worked in construction when he was younger and got some experience with it that way.

lol. Yeah, but you're a guy. You have it easy. Try squatting behind trees or bushes while trying not to urinate on your clothes. Not fun. And don't forget, plumbing includes being able to bathe and deals with some cooking. If you're like me and like pasta, water is needed. Plus for drinking.

I think there's plenty of snobbishness in every country, so I completely understand that. If you want HBO (I need to stop remembering that's a channel, too), go for it. If people look down on you for it, remember you're probably getting something they aren't. Higher education isn't always the better move. And it's always fun to prove to the snobs that their way isn't so superior. I was a music major in college and my favorite thing in choir was, as an alto, to surprise the sopranos by auditioning for a soprano solo. They always assumed they were the only ones that could sing so high, so it was fun to prove to them an alto had the vocal range too.

 

[Lionheart]

I think there's plenty of snobbishness in every country, so I completely understand that. If you want HBO (I need to stop remembering that's a channel, too), go for it.

I actually meant the opposite: I can't go to university, I have to go to HBO since I don't have the necessary prerequisites. And those prerequisites really don't make any sense. University is more focused on individual work, while at HBO you're constantly told to work together in groups, even if it's not necessary. But thanks! And yeah, I feel that snobbishness shouldn't even exist anymore.

 

[EvilX-81]

I think the analysis was interesting to say the least, im just not sure that it was a direction i wanted the series to go in.

I kinda agree, but I am curious about where they will go now with the thing having been done, though. I mean, the conspiracy is cracked, demon destroyed, you saved the world!

.....Now what.

Usually this is the time where the heroes punch out and go home, but the world just got flipped on it's head in order to save it, so... things should get even more interesting from here.

 

[Meier]

DmC is basically an exaggeration of real world problems and placed in a setting where the forces trying for control basically have everything accomplished (except for that meddlesome Dante... Scooby Doo ending). DmC doesn't go into politics at all really. They get that out of the way in the first scene with Mundus who literally wraps up a phone call sealing his final deals. What the game skewers more is investment banking, conservative propaganda, and CCTV spying networks.

Kyle Ryder is in charge of Silver Sachs tower, largest investment firm in the world and obviously a satire of Goldamn Sachs. To say that DmC is criticizing Obama I think is inaccurate. President Obama was elected after the financial meltdown which I believe is the major influence for this game's story. The game shrugs off the government influence and instead focuses on the investment banking which was truly responsible for the recession.

The government under Bush heavily de-regulated the financial industry and allowed them to have free reign on their investments. Bush appointed Henry Paulson in 2006, former CEO of Goldman Sachs to be the secretary of the treasury and before him had John Snow. Snow worked also for an investment firm called Cerberus Capital Management, which also conveniently was head by Bush Sr. former Vice president Dan Quayle. Ronald Reagan appointed Alan Greenspan as the head of the federal reserve and that guy sat in that position from 1987 until 2006. His position there is basically the epitome of the manifestation of the "trickle down" economics that has resulted in an enormous gap between the wealthy and everyone else. It was recently reported that the wealth disparity in the United States wealth disparity is the highest its been in a century, worse than tsarist Russia, and twice as bad as ancient Rome. To top off the GOP's ridiculous shamelessness in catering to investment bankers, they ran a venture (vulture) capitalist as their candidate for president in the last election while the world is still hurting from the financial fallout.

As far as a sequel can go for DmC since they topple the financial industry and get people off of poisons like red bull and fox news, they might have to just deal with how the DmC world deals with putting itself back together. They can either fast forward a few years and have someone else take Mundus's place (like one of the other demon lords hinted at in the Vergil comics), or they can make it take place right after and have multiple parties struggling for power. I think they should go after big oil and wasteful energy companies. That theme has been done many times in games (ff7, sonic the hedgehog), but I always welcome a good lampoon of wasteful profiteers.

 

[EllDawn]

I actually meant the opposite: I can't go to university, I have to go to HBO since I don't have the necessary prerequisites. And those prerequisites really don't make any sense. University is more focused on individual work, while at HBO you're constantly told to work together in groups, even if it's not necessary. But thanks! And yeah, I feel that snobbishness shouldn't even exist anymore.

Schools tend to ask for things that really don't matter, anyway.

When I was a kid we were always told we need to learn to work together. They kept that idea until college where it kind of dwindled a little. Since you'll probably have to work with others in most jobs you get, it'll probably be a good thing to get used to.

You're welcome. And I agree about snobbishness. It's not needed and it only makes things worse.

 

[LysseC]

I kinda agree, but I am curious about where they will go now with the thing having been done, though. I mean, the conspiracy is cracked, demon destroyed, you saved the world!

.....Now what.

Usually this is the time where the heroes punch out and go home, but the world just got flipped on it's head in order to save it, so... things should get even more interesting from here.

Exactly. Now the problem is rebuilding a new, saner order. And here's the problem: will the humans be able to do that just by themselves?
Imo, it would be much more interesting if the next menace (well, apart from Vergil, at this point) is not another demon or supernatural creature, but a man (or group of men), showing that humans are not all good.

 

[EllDawn]

Exactly. Now the problem is rebuilding a new, saner order. And here's the problem: will the humans be able to do that just by themselves?
Imo, it would be much more interesting if the next menace (well, apart from Vergil, at this point) is not another demon or supernatural creature, but a man (or group of men), showing that humans are not all good.

That would be quite a dilemma for Dante. He avoided killing humans, as far as I could tell. Having to decide whether he should kill them or not wouldn't be easy. And who knows what it would do to him if he did.

 

[LysseC]

I don't remember DmC Dante explicitly saying that he refused to kill humans as a general principle.
Yes, we see him only fighting (and killing) demons, but that may simply be because there are no humans between the bad guys. They are all demons in disguise.
If I recall correctly, the only human who dies in front of our eyes is that demon collaborator Vergil kills by throwing his knife, and he is, in fact, a demon collaborator, and Dante didn't seem to have any problems with that, to me.

So I don't think Dante wouldn't face a great dilemma here: he would kill the bad guy, whether he's a human or not.
But I can agree on the fact that it may be difficult for him, at least at first, to accept the fact that evil does not come only from demons, and that humans may be as evil as demons.

 

[EllDawn]

In the intro, while he was in the club, the only beings he showed any sign of being violent toward were demons. Demon collaborators, still basically being human, he didn't harm. So it wasn't actually spoken. It was more of a visual example of him chiefly targeting demons and trying not to kill any humans.

Dante didn't really have a chance to react to Vergil killing the demon collaborator. He was attacked immediately after.

Humans being able to be as evil as demons would be a way to show him that it's not as black and white as he might like. It would give him more to learn.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

 

[Loopy]

In the intro, while he was in the club, the only beings he showed any sign of being violent toward were demons. Demon collaborators, still basically being human, he didn't harm. So it wasn't actually spoken. It was more of a visual example of him chiefly targeting demons and trying not to kill any humans.

Dante didn't really have a chance to react to Vergil killing the demon collaborator. He was attacked immediately after.

Humans being able to be as evil as demons would be a way to show him that it's not as black and white as he might like. It would give him more to learn.

I don't think he'd kill a human unless he was in a really bad situation where he had no choice. Vergil on the other hand threw a knife at one. Then again, he was probably going to reveal their location or something.

Speaking of those collaborators. In the intro at Lilith's club, there were security cameras and collaborators, but none of them saw Dante or tried to turn him in.:/
Was that because Dante was already being tracked by the hunter demon? That would also explain why he got into Lilith's club so easily. Bait him with the ladies there, take him home and let the hunter follow.

 

[EllDawn]

I don't think he'd kill a human unless he was in a really bad situation where he had no choice. Vergil on the other hand threw a knife at one. Then again, he was probably going to reveal their location or something.

Speaking of those collaborators. In the intro at Lilith's club, there were security cameras and collaborators, but none of them saw Dante or tried to turn him in.:/
Was that because Dante was already being tracked by the hunter demon? That would also explain why he got into Lilith's club so easily. Bait him with the ladies there, take him home and let the hunter follow.

I agree. With Dante it's probably a last resort to kill a human. Vergil, seeing himself as being above humans, probably saw it as collateral damage and keeping the majority alive made it worth it.

That's what I think. The collaborators might have been more for making Dante vulnerable and leading the hunter to his home to kill him while he's sleeping. An easy way to take care of a possible problem.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

NO! I CLAIMED THIS THREAD IN THE NAME OF COSBY AND IT WILL STAY THAT WAY!!!

 

[Loopy]

I agree. With Dante it's probably a last resort to kill a human. Vergil, seeing himself as being above humans, probably saw it as collateral damage and keeping the majority alive made it worth it.

That's what I think. The collaborators might have been more for making Dante vulnerable and leading the hunter to his home to kill him while he's sleeping. An easy way to take care of a possible problem.

I wonder how those collaborators function anyway. Are they like sleeper agents? They live normal lives (well as normal as can be considering demonic control) and then something triggers the black tears and creepy voices? Like the scene with Dante at the club. They see him and then their collaborator mode is activated, and the black tears show. But, without Dante being around, they look like regular humans.

Also seems like they have some kind of link to Limbo through that mailce stuff...those black tears, they have to be that malice energy. So, while they don't have the strength to directly pull Dante into Limbo, it's they alert Limbo to Dante's presence.

But, that is making me wonder, if the malice energy is everywhere in the city, like a living thing, surely it would not need cameras and collaborators to pull Dante into Limbo?:/

 

[LysseC]

Maybe the malice energy lacks will and the intelligence needed to form the thought "Dante must be dragged into Limbo". This means it is just some sort of will-less matter that needs to be directed by some kind of external mind (a demon, or a collaborator). If that's so, then collaborators and cameras (who are some kind of lesser demon, if I understood it correctly) work as the source of will that gives the malice energy a purpose in its doings.

 

[>>Yamato<<]

I wonder how those collaborators function anyway. Are they like sleeper agents? They live normal lives (well as normal as can be considering demonic control) and then something triggers the black tears and creepy voices? Like the scene with Dante at the club. They see him and then their collaborator mode is activated, and the black tears show. But, without Dante being around, they look like regular humans.

Also seems like they have some kind of link to Limbo through that mailce stuff...those black tears, they have to be that malice energy. So, while they don't have the strength to directly pull Dante into Limbo, it's they alert Limbo to Dante's presence.

But, that is making me wonder, if the malice energy is everywhere in the city, like a living thing, surely it would not need cameras and collaborators to pull Dante into Limbo?:/

Well the cameras let the demons and Mundus keep track of the humans. It's not just for dragging Dante into limbo. And also while we're on the subject on cameras, could anyone explain what's up with the camera when Dante and Kat enter the order? Is the camera there for security reasons by the order? There are a bunch of scientist that could turn and see if it's a demon and then scream and panic and then Vergil would know. So why is there a need for a camera? Is it there just to give a feel that the place is packed with technology? I don't see a reason in that camera and if it for security reasons why isn't there more of them inside and out? You know to prevent some sort of invasion that may be caused by the police if they find the place "hint" "hint"?

 

[Loopy]

Well the cameras let the demons and Mundus keep track of the humans. It's not just for dragging Dante into limbo. And also while we're on the subject on cameras, could anyone explain what's up with the camera when Dante and Kat enter the order? Is the camera there for security reasons by the order? There are a bunch of scientist that could turn and see if it's a demon and then scream and panic and then Vergil would know. So why is there a need for a camera? Is it there just to give a feel that the place is packed with technology? I don't see a reason in that camera and if it for security reasons why isn't there more of them inside and out? You know to prevent some sort of invasion that may be caused by the police if they find the place "hint" "hint"?

I'm not sure. It seems a little sinster to me, like foreshadowing. Maybe it was symbolic, considering how Vergil wanted to rule humanity by the end of the game. Like a sense of if this is how he treats people working with him by constantly watching them with cameras, then is this also how he would rule the humans?

He said they use intelligence info and camera footage to fight Mundus, so who's to say Vergil wouldn't do the same to keep humans in line because he sees humanity as being like stupid children.

Or it could just be there for security reasons...but that's too boring.

 

[Happy Friend]

If anyone finds the DmC story interesting, I would suggest getting a copy of the graphic novel Brought to Light. It has two stories "Brought to Light" and "Shadowplay: The Secret Team." Alan Moore wrote Shadowplay and it is a comic book history fo the CIA. It is brilliant and terrifying and it gives a very good historical account that you cannot get in school. A write-up on Shapdowplay is here:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresource...ooks-of-all-time-brought-to-light-shadowplay/