Colored Enemies; How Would You Revise Them

[Shin Muramasa]

They should all sparkle is such a way that everyone has seizures just by mentioning them. :lol:

Besides making Rebellion and the guns be able to hit them or just connect with them but not hit them so you can set up combos or something, the armor idea seems good if they have to stay. Maybe they don't all have to be brightly colored or have it switched around; blue versus red, red versus blue. Say we have an enemy that uses ice attacks, okay, let's use a fire weapon to deal massive damage, however, you can still use whatever, but it just won't be that super effective.

 

[Macabre]

You could even justify demons relying on Armour instead of being inherently elementally aligned in storyline by saying that they "Can't draw from the power of Mundas anymore, and have to rely on ancient demonic artifacts to gain an edge".

 

[Shin Muramasa]

You could even justify demons relying on Armour instead of being inherently elementally aligned in storyline by saying that they "Can't draw from the power of Mundas anymore, and have to rely on ancient demonic artifacts to gain an edge".

Or blunt, stab, and slash armor. Osiris seems like a slashing weapon - it's a scythe, what else would it be? - so the Frost Knight could just be demons with blunt (and stab) resistant armor. And with Eryx obviously being a blunt weapon, and Arbiter being closer to a crushing weapon than a stab/slash weapon, maybe the Fire Knights could just be wearing slash (and stab) resistant armor. But that doesn't make sense if they're immune to anything other than what's protecting them. It should just be less effective.

 

[BLACKSWIPE]

Personally I like them. I know I'm probably going to get flamed or see a nice bomb of negative messages in my alert box, but who gives a damn.

The color coded enemies allowed for me to better explore what I could do and what I did it with, it allowed me to gain a better feel for the angelic and demonic weapons. I was a bit awkward with them at first, but the more and more I used them, the better and better I got.I used to freak out when a Frost Knight appeared with a hell Knight, but I'm no longer a slobbering mess of crying when I see them. I've learned to adapt and limit myself on what I can and can't do with both of them around, I've learned to use the demon evade quite efficiently and I've gained such a good strategy with them that I actually welcome them. The color coded enemies push me to think harder and a bit smarter with how I plan to do things, it forces me to adapt and think of my winning strategy. No longer an I getting D's and C's when around these enemies, its all SSSensational...

 

[Judgement]

What actually gets me is if a enemy has a certain distinct type of defense (angel or demon), wouldn't it also make sense that the demon weapon would do more damage to the angel and vice versa? Just a thought. I also said how rebellion should be able to damage both but even forgetting that for now at least shouldn't rebellions charge skill, drive and overdrive be able to hurt them at least? I have noticed I can actually hurt the racially aligned demons with drive but not right away.

EDIT: To Blackswipe's last post I have to agree. Even if it was a little unnecessary to make us use different weapons at least we could use 2 per type of enemy we were fighting. It definitely got me more accustomed to switching between each and combining combos between them too which only lead to better combos for all the weapons combined. It also got me accustomed to attacking one type of demon, leaving it for a second and jumping to another, or few, of the other faction and switching to those weapons and juggling back and forth. It definitely did help shape my over all play-style for the better in the end. Some may just keep attacking one enemy with the same weapon which is fine I guess it's up to anyone to play the way they feel but if you really want to improve it's right there for you to jump back and forth while switching constantly. Sure some people will say "you can do that anyways" and that is always true! Though it is a decent idea and not a bad one.

 

[Mystiq Doom]

I was actually thinking about this recently, and the fix is easy.

First of all, using guns on these enemies is a MUST. You can assign angel/demon properties to the guns so that maybe on some enemies you can only use pistols and other enemies only shotgun etc. The last thing is you should be able to use Rebellion on ALL enemies whether they're angel or demon. That alone would give you enough freedom on colored enemies, and that's how they SHOULD have done it originally.

 

[scionicspectre]

You could see it the other way- it could be like demons being impervious to anything that isn't from the same realm. So angel 'realm' enemies can only be affected by that kind of weapon. Just like how you can treat a wound to remove infections without burning your skin off.

 

[Soupie]

After having some practice with DmC, I can say that they're not as bad as people say. I'm beginning to have fun against them, albeit using simple combos.

I do understand where some combat enthusiasts are coming from with these enemies though. Fighting them gets very arcade-y and doesn't offer much in terms of combos.

 

[zarion]

Enemies only taking damage from their own element is stupid. The revision should make it so that only the shield can block attacks and pulls that aren't of the assigned color code and once the shield is broken you can use any attack to wreak havoc on them.
It should also have color coded mid boss-level demons, like Drekavak and the Tyrrant. The Witches are a great example of color codes done right.

 

[Chancey289]

After having some practice with DmC, I can say that they're not as bad as people say. I'm beginning to have fun against them, albeit using simple combos.

I do understand where some combat enthusiasts are coming from with these enemies though. Fighting them gets very arcade-y and doesn't offer much in terms of combos.

I personally have fun in thinking of ways to play games in a very non-methodical way. When you don't follow through with the typical streamline combos that just about every supposed "combo enthusiasts" all do and really think outside the box then even the when you're forced to pick a side then less methodical methods really open up the kind of possibilities that can be accomplished. Don't only attack with your move set. Use the level itself and how the demons can actually attack each other to get creative. Streamline in a more unorthodox manner. That being said, I would rather not have this color coded combination but more so a system that the demonic side carries more weight and power than the angelic side which really has you using it it when you're good enough to sneak a more powerful attack in. Gives more relevance to every side of combat regardless.

 

[Macabre]

I personally have fun in thinking of ways to play games in a very non-methodical way. When you don't follow through with the typical streamline combos that just about every supposed "combo enthusiasts" all do and really think outside the box then even the when you're forced to pick a side then less methodical methods really open up the kind of possibilities that can be accomplished. Don't only attack with your move set. Use the level itself and how the demons can actually attack each other to get creative. Streamline in a more unorthodox manner. That being said, I would rather not have this color coded combination but more so a system that the demonic side carries more weight and power than the angelic side which really has you using it it when you're good enough to sneak a more powerful attack in. Gives more relevance to every side of combat regardless.

Oh yes, I remember how the old Devil May Cry games were so limiting and how they constantly held your hand behind your back, throwing up enemies who you could harm with whatever you wanted, with the diverse movelists they provided because of their smelly Lock-On based combat systems, and enemies who gained entirely new combat behaviour at higher difficulties.

Bleh to it I say. Bleh!

 

[Chancey289]

Oh yes, I remember how the old Devil May Cry games were so limiting and how they constantly held your hand behind your back, throwing up enemies who you could harm with whatever you wanted, with the diverse movelists they provided because of their smelly Lock-On based combat systems, and enemies who gained entirely new combat behaviour at higher difficulties.

Bleh to it I say. Bleh!

They did have enemies that were also only harmed by certain weapons before. On the top of my head those bird enemies in DMC 3 which only could be hurt with a gun to turn them to stone then kill them.

 

[ZeroLove]

I actually liked the colour-coded enemies. The game forces you to think and change tactics.

 

[Macabre]

They did have enemies that were also only harmed by certain weapons before. On the top of my head those bird enemies in DMC 3 which only could be hurt with a gun to turn them to stone then kill them.

We've already discussed this.

The Bloodgoyles were a good example of enemies with immunity being done interestingly though. Instead of stopping your attack outright, Devil Arms attacks caused them to divide into two like an amoeba. They made for an interesting challenge when backed up by multiple enemy types, but hitting them didn't freeze you in your tracks either.

It's not outright technical prohibition. In fact dividing Bloodgoyles could actually work in your favour by allowing you to farm orbs from the multitudes you create by dividing them. There's a difference between enemies which present a new gameplay challenge by reacting in strange ways to certain attack types and those that just outright stop you from attacking them with over two thirds of the arsenal.

Besides which, Bloodgoyles are invulnerable to Devil Arms to a point then they become vulnerable to anything, which is exactly what people are suggesting with the Armour concept.

 

[Ruisu]

Armour instead of pure color coding does it. The game does it with the witch, and the possibility of she using her shield even on other enemies, that's something that really gives you some challenge in a fight, they could have been more creative with the rest of the colored enemies. They should've been more creative.

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

Oh yes, I remember how the old Devil May Cry games were so limiting and how they constantly held your hand behind your back, throwing up enemies who you could harm with whatever you wanted, with the diverse movelists they provided because of their smelly Lock-On based combat systems, and enemies who gained entirely new combat behaviour at higher difficulties.

Bleh to it I say. Bleh!

restriction breeds creativity, though there is a limit. while on the topic of enemies and DMC3: i honestly like the enemies in DmC much more. Bloodgoyles, armored things with the shield and jewel on the back, ghost vagina thingies, chess pieces, metal things that sit in the back shooting you and zoom away when you get close, and fallen!? bleh no thanks

 

[lorddemolatron]

Also I had hate in this as I had moments in game where I just mistaken weapons in combat, in end I had quickly to change weapons for survival but Im still good in this game. This minor thing is mine small hate in DmC, as other aspects in game I liked for now.

 

[Macabre]

restriction breeds creativity, though there is a limit. while on the topic of enemies and DMC3: i honestly like the enemies in DmC much more. Bloodgoyles, armored things with the shield and jewel on the back, ghost vagina thingies, chess pieces, metal things that sit in the back shooting you and zoom away when you get close, and fallen!? bleh no thanks

<EDIT: God I was tired when I typed this, sorry>

You have to see that enemies who have unique AI behaviour which dynamically reacts to different attack strategies have specific weaknesses to exploit is better game design when compared to enemies that just prevent you from using certain equipment.

One of these elements requires months of careful gameplay balancing, AI tweaking and unique animations. The other is an On/Off button in a monster's coding. If you want monster slaying to be a question of how fast you can mash the attack button rather than the divergent tactics you can come up with against varied enemies, I've got just the game for you.

Remember to save your keys carefully.

Which reminds me, why the hell out of all the games getting unnecessary co-op, why the hell didn't DmC get some?

 

[EllDawn]

I actually found out today that, at least with blue enemies, you go into DT and you can still damage them with Rebellion. It was something I did on accident and then tried again to make sure. I haven't tried it with the others, yet.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Macabre is 100% right about this. Thankfully there's only a few colored enemies Red Rage, Hell Knights and then blue knights and blue rage. Dream runners are the best enemies in the game because you can damage them using all the weapons just some weapons are more effective than others.