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Capcom Halves Forcast: Blames "Excessive Outsourcing"

*nods* N-hn, I see your point. Saying he doesn't care surely wasn't a good thing, ok. Ironically, he said that he doesn't care for how well the game sells, though :P
Sure, first impressions are important, it influences us a lot, the problem is just that I only came to know of DmC during mid 2011, so my first impression of them was completely different from what yours might have been, so I guess that also figures into my inability to understand that issue with what the developers think. idk, I still find it funny to let oneself get influenced so much by what a single individual said, to me it'd be just like saying "Oh, there's that one movie that looks interesting, but actor XY who I can't stad plays a minor role in it so I'm not gonna whatch it."
That's different though. Tameem isn't just some minor guy making the game, he is the director and writer of the game. This game's style, story, dialogue all comes from his mind. He put a lot of himself in this game. But I can understand where you are coming from because you were very young at the time of the first trailer. I was just starting college when the trailer came out.

Whenever I think of reboots, I think of the Spyro reboot. The developers basically threw everything that ever difined Spyro for me out of the window and changed it beyond recognission, in a way that I personally couldn't stand. I don't know what the guys behind it think about the original Spyro games, but I believe I would have given the reboot a chance regardless of their opinion, and judged it solely on it's own merits. Because as I said before, to me, only the game itself matters.
Still a bit different. Activision changed Spyro, but do we know the reasons why they changed it? We could speculate it, but if they were not vocal with why then our speculation does not mean anything. Capcom themselves were very vocal about why this reboot was made, Tameem was very vocal about how he felt about the franchise. If they had kept all that to themselves then I probably wouldn't have a problem with them, but they chose to be outspoken about it. It's like Chic-fil-a, I was fine with buying their okay tasting chicken, but after they went public with their political views I decided not to eat there anymore. If they had kept their mouths shut I would still be fine with going to chic-fil-a.
 
Um no, I played DmC. I made it up to Mission 15 on Nephilim, but I couldn't play it for any longer than that. Throughout my time playing I didn't enjoy it at all. I was forcing myself to play it just to see what it was like and you can't enjoy games like that. I just watched the rest of the 5 missions on Youtube and I saw that there wasn't any reason to go back to the game.

And regardless of how you feel about Lords of Shadow, I felt that how they went about the development of the game made me excited to play the game. I enjoyed Lords of Shadow for what it was and I really enjoyed the story. Mirros of Fate wasn't that good, but I enjoyed the little tidbits of story that we got and I'm looking forward to Lords of Shadow 2.
You just said you didn't play it though. I don't believe you.
 
That's different though. Tameem isn't just some minor guy making the game, he is the director and writer of the game. This game's style, story, dialogue all comes from his mind. He put a lot of himself in this game. But I can understand where you are coming from because you were very young at the time of the first trailer. I was just starting college when the trailer came out.


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Umm, no it doesn't. Ninja Theory is made up of lots of people and there are people who are specifically assigned to do certain things. Alex Garland was the story's supervisor and oversaw it. Also Alex Jones and Motohide Eshiro were producers. Itsuno also oversaw DmC to an extent. You see? There is a lot of different people who develop different aspects of a video game. I don't know what's your deal with an obsession over one man. Do you have a crush on him or something?

You're not even making any sense.
 
You just said you didn't play it though. I don't believe you.
That's not what I said. I said I would have been more willing to play it if I had liked the devs, but I forced myself to play it because I wanted to see what the game is like since I have been following the game since it's reveal. You've been looking for a reason to try to discredit everything I've said by making countless assumptions and I'm getting real tired of it.

I'm not a liar, I have no reason to lie. I've been honest throughout this whole conversation and I've tried to be as nice and respectful as possible throughout my whole time here. I've even tried to be nice to you because you are an Evil Dead fan like me, but if you are going to be a child about this then I'm not going to waste my time conversing with you.
 
That's not what I said. I said I would have been more willing to play it if I had liked the devs, but I forced myself to play it because I wanted to see what the game is like since I have been following the game since it's reveal. You've been looking for a reason to try to discredit everything I've said by making countless assumptions and I'm getting real tired of it.

I'm not a liar, I have no reason to lie. I've been honest throughout this whole conversation and I've tried to be as nice and respectful as possible throughout my whole time here. I've even tried to be nice to you because you are an Evil Dead fan like me, but if you are going to be a child about this then I'm not going to waste my time conversing with you.
"I'd be more willing to play it if I liked the devs."
What do you expect me to assume because that clearly says you haven't played it because you don't want to.
 
"I'd be more willing to play it if I liked the devs."
What do you expect me to assume because that clearly says you haven't played it because you don't want to.
Well you were mistaken because that is not what I meant. Making mistakes is fine, but to just outright call me a liar after I explained what I meant is what really ****ed me off. You were looking for ways to disregard what I've been saying. I played the game, for about 6 hours, I got up to Trade Mission, but I felt no reason to play it any longer. Now that that is settled I want to respond to what you had said before about Tameem.

Tameem is the director and writer of this game, yes there are other people who work on the game, but Tameem is the heart of it all. Different people worked on Bayonetta, but the core ideas of the world, the story, and how game plays comes from the mind of Hideki Kamiya. Different people work on Metal Gear Solid games, but, like Kamiya with Bayo, many of the ideas from the game come from Hideo Kojima. I know other people are responsible for making this game, I'm not letting those people off the hook either, I'm just saying that Tameem is responsible for a lot of what this game is.
 
Well you were mistaken because that is not what I meant. Making mistakes is fine, but to just outright call me a liar after I explained what I meant is what really ****ed me off. You were looking for ways to disregard what I've been saying. I played the game, for about 6 hours, I got up to Trade Mission, but I felt no reason to play it any longer. Now that that is settled I want to respond to what you had said before about Tameem.

Tameem is the director and writer of this game, yes there are other people who work on the game, but Tameem is the heart of it all. Different people worked on Bayonetta, but the core ideas of the world, the story, and how game plays comes from the mind of Hideki Kamiya. Different people work on Metal Gear Solid games, but, like Kamiya with Bayo, many of the ideas from the game come from Hideo Kojima. I know other people are responsible for making this game, I'm not letting those people off the hook either, I'm just saying that Tameem is responsible for a lot of what this game is.

Actually Kojima really didn't have much to any involvement in MGR, he may have promoted it and it may have been his idea but most credit goes to Etsu Tamaki who was the writer and stuff and Keiji Saito (who focused mainly on gameplay and other things). MGR was half and half, Etsu was the story, characters, and design while Saito was gameplay (with the exception of blade mode/Zandetsu but everything else was PG such as parrying and the weapons), music/sound (he chose the metal/rock route), and cinematics.
 
Actually Kojima really didn't have much to any involvement in MGR, he may have promoted it and it may have been his idea but most credit goes to Etsu Tamaki who was the writer and stuff and Keiji Saito (who focused mainly on gameplay and other things). MGR was half and half, Etsu was the story, characters, and design while Saito was gameplay (with the exception of blade mode/Zandetsu but everything else was PG such as parrying and the weapons), music/sound (he chose the metal/rock route), and cinematics.
I didn't say anything about Metal Gear Rising. I said Metal Gear Solid. I know all about MGR, trust me.
 
Since we're on subject of good story telling.

I think MGR story could have been much better overall if you removed certain stuff. I felt it became to comical, and thats not good for a serious and touching story in my opinion.

But game on its own had some really amazing stuff. Especially the dialogue between Raiden and Bladewolf, that was spectacular.


ENDING
Also ending of Rising seems to be a reference to this i think:
Blade Ending
 
Since we're on subject of good story telling.

I think MGR story could have been much better overall if you removed certain stuff. I felt it became to comical, and thats not good for a serious and touching story in my opinion.

But game on its own had some really amazing stuff. Especially the dialogue between Raiden and Bladewolf, that was spectacular.


ENDING
Also ending of Rising seems to be a reference to this i think:
Blade Ending
I actually like the comical elements. I just felt that the part where they were being serious came off too cheesy. Like when he first goes into his Jack the Ripper persona I couldn't tell if I should take that part seriously or not. It was bad when it came to stuff like that.

Other than that I felt like there should have been things added into the story if anything, like a surgery scene after the first mission, or a cutscene where they acquire Blade Wolf. It felt rushed in those areas of the game and the story could have been fleshed out with more cutscenes.I know they wanted to shorten the cutscenes because it's an action game, but it's Metal Gear, it's known for having long cutscenes lots of dialogue. I think most people would be fine with that as long as their is a way to skip cutscenes and as long as the cutscenes don't last up to an hour. Hopefully if they decide to make a sequel, they will flesh out the story instead of rushing it like they did before.
 
I think MGR story could have been much better overall if you removed certain stuff. I felt it became to comical, and thats not good for a serious and touching story in my opinion.

Yeah, the absurd elements in Rising really undermined it as a whole. The Metal Gear universe has never tried to deliver such a weird juxtaposition of the profound and the ludicrous before.

View attachment 580

Nah, god bless you Son, I know what you mean. The Armstrong confrontation got completely pants-on-head bonkers, but I still loved it.

One of the things I love about Metal Gear is that manic bent between absurdity and seriousness. There's something very engaging about not knowing if the next boss is going to discuss the Selfish Gene theory with you or make fun of you for playing Castlevania. Expecially when they do both.

That deviation between the two extremes is an important part of Devil May Cry as well, and I feel a big part of DmC's failings was it's skewing towards utter dourness. Metal Gear proves you can have it both ways if you make an effort.

ENDING
Also ending of Rising seems to be a reference to this i think:
Blade Ending

It's actually a pretty standard ending cliche' in general.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndTheAdventureContinues




I'd love to discuss some of these points with you, because I got the same feeling when it came to the omission of certain cutscenes too. I particularly thought Raiden's trip in the ramjet was a missed opportunity, but that's something for another time.

>Implying your purist opinions on the Devil May Cry series is somehow right using sales of ,all things, as your argument.

>Implying this forum has greentext.

've been a fan of this series since that demo showed up with Code Veronica but it doesn't take a genius to see the series was at a creative dead end.

I wish people would stop peddling out this absurd rhetoric as if it were gospel. Just because 4 was a misstep didn't mean that that Capcom couldn't inject some fresh blood into the franchise and make something great of the series. 4's sales meant that the franchise had a massive install base with new players familiar with the old universe primed and ready for new installments throughout the PS3 generation, but didn't provide.

I never cease to be impressed by the sheer level of contempt people seem to have for their "beloved" franchise.
 
If anything Sam's story was a total butchering. That DLC story was like...

"WTF is this crap?!"

I really don't know which is worse, DmC Downfall or JetStream Sam "story" DLC.

I shake my head at both of them.
 
If anything Sam's story was a total butchering. That DLC story was like...

"WTF is this crap?!"

I really don't know which is worse, DmC Downfall or JetStream Sam "story" DLC.

I shake my head at both of them.

We could discuss it in a MGR thread if you like. Though the campaign was shamelessly recycled (So Denver has the same type of sewers as Latin-istan?), I felt Sam's playstyle was different enough from Raiden to make it feel fresh. It's a bugger trying to get through Very Hard with his imperfect version of the Parry, and not being able to Light Attack while running is an interesting inhibition. On the flip side, nothing beats Taunting a horde of cyborgs to chase you up a pagoda only to hit them with a perfectly timed charged attack and grin.

When it comes to the cutscenes, well...

View attachment 581

You can't go wrong with Sam.

It's still hideously overpriced for it's meagre content, but it's made me smile. I think you're wrong to assume it was "cut content repackaged as DLC" though; it seems that they intended to release these tiny content packs at swollen prices right from the start, and that's much worse in my book.
 
http://www.vg247.com/2010/09/22/dmc-what-was-cool-in-the-past-isnt-cool-anymore/

But, you know, what was cool 12 years ago – I think that was when the first game came out [correction: It actually came out nine years ago for PS2 - JC] – isn’t cool any more."

“If Dante, dressed as he was, walked into any bar outside of Tokyo, he’d get laughed out."

Those are quotes from Tameem after the first DmC trailer in 2010. When you say things like that they come of as disrespectful. Who is he to say what is cool now? Who is he to say Dante and Devil May Cry is outdated.
you see there are these things called opinions and he was stating his while also using some cynical humor
-_- For non Ninja Theory fans, the guy is a nobody and just comes off as douche bag who looks like the emo kid from South Park.
and this coming from a guy on an internet forum, i don't think you understand how hard it is to become a creative director and never will be gifted enough to do so
Also don't forget this one http://venturebeat.com/2010/10/15/should-developers-listen-to-their-fans/
"I instead assumed the snarky journalist persona, and without thinking asked, “So, how do you feel about the fan reaction to DMC?”

Tameen looked at me a moment and took a drag of his cigarette. Then without blinking, and without pausing to exhale the smoke from his mouth he said, “I don't care.”

or this http://www.ps3center.net//news/5327/dmc-dev-i-dont-care-if-it-sells-a-thousand-units-or-two-million/

"Usually the worst creative crimes are made when you're trying to make a game for someone else - some perceived demographic that, in all likelihood, doesn't actually exist."

Tameem does not care about us, or what we think about his creations. He makes games for.... I don't even know... himself?
you do realize that the most common thing that holds games backs in today is people playing it extremely safe all the time, other developers say this all the time and indie developers heavily believe this and i'm sure he has better things to do than care about whiny teenagers spamming his twitter with photoshopped pics of dante in suspenders and making up names like donte
Anyway, it was because of comments like the ones shown that I felt that Tameem was disrespectful.He is arrogant and seems like a person who cannot handle criticism
you mean like how you can't handle criticism of a character in a video game
(which was shown when he went off on a person on Twitter for making a valid complaint).
which is being shown in this post, btw, the attacking off screen thing wasn't a valid complaint because it is something that has NEVER occurred in the series -_-
I can't support a dev like him. The guy also doesn't know a thing about Devil May Cry.
and yet this game wouldn't be the way it was without his creative direction, hence the name, CREATIVE DIRECTOR, and people like you need a reality check and watch how much work goes into this kinda thing but no no feel free to keep pretending like its a simple job
Check out the first article and you can already tell that he was the wrong man for the job.
no he's not -_-
 
you see there are these things called opinions and he was stating his while also using some cynical humor
I understand that he was stating his opinion, but in my opinion, and I know you are going to disagree with this, I feel that developers should be very careful about what they say especially when giving a first impression to millions of gamers who have no idea who you are. I do not care if indie devs agree with Tameem, I don't play indie games, they don't appeal to me. What appeals to me is Devil May Cry and Tameem's version of Devil May Cry did not appeal to me and apparently millions of other people who did not buy the game.
and this coming from a guy on an internet forum, i don't think you understand how hard it is to become a creative director and never will be gifted enough to do so
I never said I believed being a creative director was an easy job. I'm sure it is very hard job to do, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically appreciate him and his work.
and yet this game wouldn't be the way it was without his creative direction, hence the name, CREATIVE DIRECTOR, and people like you need a reality check and watch how much work goes into this kinda thing but no no feel free to keep pretending like its a simple job
Like I stated before I never said being a creative director was an easy job. I do however believe someone can be a bad creative director or I can just not care for the things that director makes. I don't like any of Ninja Theory's games so I already do not care about Tameem's work.

Also I said the guy doesn't know a thing about Devil May Cry because he doesn't. This game barely felt like a Devil May Cry game. The only thing it shares are a few character names, weapon names, and names of moves and that's it. When he says things like this ...

“What Devil May Cry did when it launched was it brought everything that was great about action cinema like the fashion, music – it was like a cultural melting pot – and I feel like now, for Devil May Cry to have that same impact, it needs to draw on new things.

“New music, new ways of cinematography, new fashion.”

It tells me that he knows nothing about Devil May Cry. DMC is not about fashion or music, or cinema. DMC was about action, overcoming difficult challenges, and mastering the gameplay. If he went into this project without thinking of those things first then he was the wrong man for the job.

Oh also, I'm pretty sure people didn't have to photoshop pics of Donte (yep I said it) in suspenders because NT already did that for them. http://i.imgur.com/4SSIrjf.jpg
 
I understand that he was stating his opinion, but in my opinion, and I know you are going to disagree with this, I feel that developers should be very careful about what they say especially when giving a first impression to millions of gamers who have no idea who you are.
people know who NT is, devil may cry is not their first game that got hyped -_- and definitely won't be the last, and basically your statement is, NEVER STATE YOUR TRUE OPINION, ALWAYS FOLLOW MINE OR **** OFF
I do not care if indie devs agree with Tameem, I don't play indie games, they don't appeal to me.
sucks to be you dude, as some of the greatest games made this generation are indie games
What appeals to me is Devil May Cry and Tameem's version of Devil May Cry did not appeal to me and apparently millions of other people who did not buy the game.
if you haven't noticed, hns games are not selling or as relevant as they used to be and this game sold way better than one despite all the fanboy rage
I never said I believed being a creative director was an easy job. I'm sure it is very hard job to do, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically appreciate him and his work.
still doesn't give you the right to constantly bitch because he stated his opinion -_-
Like I stated before I never said being a creative director was an easy job. I do however believe someone can be a bad creative director or I can just not care for the things that director makes. I don't like any of Ninja Theory's games so I already do not care about Tameem's work.
i doubt you have ever even played an NT game before this one, watching youtube videos doesn't really help validate an opinion on something as you lack first hand experience with the actual feeling of being there playing it which is drastically different -_-
Also I said the guy doesn't know a thing about Devil May Cry because he doesn't.
and yet he developed a devil may cry game
This game barely felt like a Devil May Cry game.
the point of devil may cry is to rack up stylish combos to make the game feel like a movement to simulate the over the top cutscenes and make it feel "stylish"
people like you on this forum always contradict yourselves, because first you'll say its nothing like a devil ma cry game and then complain about it being a rip off if it had a different name
The only thing it shares are a few character names, weapon names, and names of moves and that's it. When he says things like this ...

“What Devil May Cry did when it launched was it brought everything that was great about action cinema like the fashion, music – it was like a cultural melting pot – and I feel like now, for Devil May Cry to have that same impact, it needs to draw on new things.

“New music, new ways of cinematography, new fashion.”

It tells me that he knows nothing about Devil May Cry.
DMC is not about fashion or music, or cinema.
he was talking about the atmosphere and feel of the aesthetic of the game, once again, IT TAKES TIME,EFFORT AND A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT GAME DESIGN TO BE A CREATIVE DIRECTOR
DMC was about action, overcoming difficult challenges, and mastering the gameplay
" The gameplay consists of heavy combat scenes in which the player must attempt to extend long chains of attacks while avoiding damage in order to exhibit stylized combat; this element along with time and the amount of items collected and used are taken under consideration when grading the player's performance."

this is and what always was the point of this series
If he went into this project without thinking of those things first then he was the wrong man for the job.
capcom told NT to make the game more accessible, seriously,
Oh also, I'm pretty sure people didn't have to photoshop pics of Donte (yep I said it) in suspenders because NT already did that for them. http://i.imgur.com/4SSIrjf.jpg[
better than any piece of art or character design than you'll ever make in your life/quote]
 
That's different though. Tameem isn't just some minor guy making the game, he is the director and writer of the game. This game's style, story, dialogue all comes from his mind. He put a lot of himself in this game. But I can understand where you are coming from because you were very young at the time of the first trailer. I was just starting college when the trailer came out.
Well, this is a different issue. It's a perfectly fine reason to not like the game because of style, story and dialogue. But simply disregarding it because the guy who wrote it has a different opinion on the originals then you might have, to me, is incomprehensible.
I don't think me being young really has an impact on this matter, especially since 17 isn't that young imo.


Still a bit different. Activision changed Spyro, but do we know the reasons why they changed it? We could speculate it, but if they were not vocal with why then our speculation does not mean anything. Capcom themselves were very vocal about why this reboot was made, Tameem was very vocal about how he felt about the franchise. If they had kept all that to themselves then I probably wouldn't have a problem with them, but they chose to be outspoken about it. It's like Chic-fil-a, I was fine with buying their okay tasting chicken, but after they went public with their political views I decided not to eat there anymore. If they had kept their mouths shut I would still be fine with going to chic-fil-a.
That's not the point I was trying to make :ermm: What I wanted to say was, that eventhough I had bad experiences with reboots before, I did not let myself get influenced by it and gave DmC a fair chanche. And yes, we don't know why they changed Spyro, but what I was trying to say was that even if we did know the reasons, and if they did say bad things about the originals, I wouldn't have let myself get influenced by it and just played the game and judged it on its own merits (which I did).
And isn't it actually a good thing Capcom stated their reasons for changing it?
And there is a difference between having a specific political orientation and having an opinon about a character, because the latter does not really influence the whole world, wheras political measures could.

I understand that he was stating his opinion, but in my opinion, and I know you are going to disagree with this, I feel that developers should be very careful about what they say especially when giving a first impression to millions of gamers who have no idea who you are. It sure seems that way :ermm: Kinda sad, though.

Also I said the guy doesn't know a thing about Devil May Cry because he doesn't. This game barely felt like a Devil May Cry game. Did to me ._.

“What Devil May Cry did when it launched was it brought everything that was great about action cinema like the fashion, music – it was like a cultural melting pot – and I feel like now, for Devil May Cry to have that same impact, it needs to draw on new things.

“New music, new ways of cinematography, new fashion.”

It tells me that he knows nothing about Devil May Cry. DMC is not about fashion or music, or cinema. DMC was about action, overcoming difficult challenges, and mastering the gameplay. If he went into this project without thinking of those things first then he was the wrong man for the job.
I think what he was trying to say was that all these things figured into what made Devil May Cry so appealing, not that they are more important than gameplay.
Oh also, I'm pretty sure people didn't have to photoshop pics of Donte (yep I said it) in suspenders because NT already did that for them. http://i.imgur.com/4SSIrjf.jpg
I love suspenders!Dante. It's just so silly I can't even :P

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some of the greatest games made this generation are indie games
Eden, could you recommend some to me? :3
 
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