All about Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Super

[Sparda's rejected son]

I've come to understand the "Majin Seal" as a device that merely unleashed the anger and sorrow Vegeta had in his heart already. Vegeta at that point was mad because he became soft. He wasn't a killer anymore, he was a family man. With Son-Kun dead Vegeta had nothing to fight for. He lost a large part of himself. When Vegeta saw Goku fight Yaken he realized that Son's power passed SS2 Teen/Adult Gohan's and his! He was wounded, he the Prince of the mighty warrior race reduced to a "good guy!" Vegeta let the evil warlock simply unearth the hidden potential he already had.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

It's been said in every case the Majin spell enhances power.

Well then how come her kick broke his neck? if he was stronger than before he should be unfazed by her kick.

2. Who said Goku didn't need rage for his 1st time AscendedSaiyan transformation.
Rage, or hatred is what's needed for the first time AscendedSaiyan transformation.

This is another misconception only gohan needed rage to access his dormant powers Goku&vegeta clearly don't and not to mention goku is a cheerful&lighthearted guy so he rarely loses his cool.

And besides can you point out when & where in the anime Vegeta actually went AscendedSaiyan BEFORE the Majin spell ?

That still doesn't prove that Vegeta wasn't SSj2 before majin spell.

I've come to understand the "Majin Seal" as a device that merely unleashed the anger and sorrow Vegeta had in his heart already. Vegeta at that point was mad because he became soft. He wasn't a killer anymore, he was a family man. With Son-Kun dead Vegeta had nothing to fight for. He lost a large part of himself. When Vegeta saw Goku fight Yaken he realized that Son's power passed SS2 Teen/Adult Gohan's and his! He was wounded, he the Prince of the mighty warrior race reduced to a "good guy!" Vegeta let the evil warlock simply unearth the hidden potential he already had.

This is the best explanation of what really happened to vegeta.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
1. Spopovich is still human.

Exactly he didn't get any stronger he just got more fierce and resilient by the majin spell.

Seems to me rage was a key part of Goku's first time SuperSaiyan transformation.

lol and what about Goten&kid trunks? they sure never had any type of "rage" there is no coherency in dbz logic.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

The Majin spell gave him power & strength he didn't have before.

See this is the misconception i was talking about.. majin spell is very much korin's ultra divine water,Elder guru's/Old kai's unlock potential.

Goku,Gohan&Krillin got their potential unlocked and they became wayy stronger than before but that doesn't mean guru gave them new powers or anything.

The same goes with vegeta's majin power up.. it was nothing but all of his pent up frustration being released to give him an edge over Goku's SSj2 which was stronger than SSj2 gohan from cell games.

But we know that Dabura was as stronger as Cell and vegeta could have taken him down which proves that he was at least as strong as SSj2 gohan from cell games.

so, gives way to my posts saying Vegeta's first time AscendedSaiyan transformation came about easily that's to the Majin spell placed on him.

Well that would also mean that he never needed majin power up to go SSj2.

 

[Enigma]

@ROCKMAN X
No the only misconception is on your part.
You're just running around trying to avoid the fact that Vegeta never reached AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell by splitting hairs.

Did Vegeta go AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell ?
Do you have proof he did go AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell.

The question isn't could Vegeta reach AscendedSaiyan level on his own, but did he before the Majin spell.

And as far as i know & said, NO.
There was nothing shown or said about him going AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell placed on him .

Hey, sorry if I'm butting in, and I haven't followed the discussion completely, but Vegeta reached Ascended Super Saiyan form before he turned Majin. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ascended_Super_Saiyan
It says so under 'usage and power'. Or maybe you meant a different form of SSJ.

And yeah, rage was an integral part of the Super Saiyan 1 form, as far as I know. Vegeta also got angry (while training) because he couldn't match Goku in power, and then he transformed. Goten doesn't say anything about having reached the SSJ form before or not in that video, just that he 'wants to be a Super Saiyan *now*', which sounds like he's impatient because Gohan keeps blabbing on. Sounds like he already knew how to be one.

 

[DoomSlayer87_Sss]

ascended saiyan was the form he took as super vegeta too guys. It is stated in the anime a few times during the fight with semi perfect cell , it is ssj2 we are speaking of

 

[ROCKMAN X]

You're just running around trying to avoid the fact that Vegeta never reached AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell by splitting hairs.

No i 'm not! i already told you that vegeta was very confident that he was as strong as gohan from the cell games and he said that he could beat dabura easily when gohan was unable to beat him

He was only surprised when he found out that Goku surpassed SSj2 gohan&SSj2 Vegeta.

Did Vegeta go AscendedSaiyan before the Majin spell ?

He didn't but he certainly could as he was confident to fight dabura and also explicitly stated that he was stronger than gohan.

Hey, sorry if I'm butting in, and I haven't followed the discussion completely, but Vegeta reached Ascended Super Saiyan form before he turned Majin. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ascended_Super_Saiyan
It says so under 'usage and power'. Or maybe you meant a different form of SSJ.
.

Ah.. that's "Ascended super saiyan" not "Ascended saiyan"

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Meaning the Majin spell gave Vegeta that power increase to close that gag.
Vegeta's own words admitting the Majin spell gave him a power increase.

He got a power boost i agree but he clearly had reached SSj2 before too.

2. Just because Vegeta could defeat Dabura & Dabura being as powerful as Perfect Cell only means Vegeta's SuperSaiyan level was strong enough to do the job.

That makes no sense SSj Vegeta was KO'd in one slap of Super perfect Cell.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Now show me where Vegeta went AscendedSaiyan BEFORE the Majin Spell was placed on him then i'll agree with you.

The same time when Goku leanred SSj2,3&kaioken Off screen..lol

2. Makes no sense ????

SSJ Vegeta cannot defeat Dabura because he's as strong as Super pefect cell.

EVEN THOUGH before your post #955 you said the Majin Spell giving anyone a power boost was a complete misconception & it did not you said.

Well partly i was referring to the misconception of what really happened,Majin spell only unlocked power in vegeta it didn't give him anything extra and also the misconception that Vegeta was not able to go SSJ2 without majin spell.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Vegeta first time AscendedSaiyan transformation was because of the Majin spell placed on him.

This is the misconception i was talking about,if you watch when babidi possesses vegeta he says "allow me to restore your power to the way it was before you began trying to resist your dark nature" and i've also seen the original subbed version babdi says "let's also draw out his hidden powers,beyond his limits!"

Cursorily in the subbed version Vegeta killed people in the world tournament to give their energy to buu this was never mentioned in the dub lol maybe it was too evil?

You're also saying Vegeta or any Saiyan can't increased their power level through training.
So all that training Goku did was pointless because he never gotten stronger

No i never said that,i merely said that both goku&vegeta already had SSj2 level but vegeta's SSJ2 was relatively weaker when compared to goku's and babidi helped boost up his SSj2 to goku's level that's it.

The very fact that Vegeta could easily beat dabura proves that he already had SSj2 level powers but just wasn't as strong as Goku.

Also is it just me or does gohan look like yamcha?

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Vegeta going SuperSaiyan 3​

So why wouldn't going SuperSaiyan 3 be plausible ?

The whole point of goku going SSj3 was to somehow unrealistically surpass Vegeta for like the billionth time.​

2. I don't know, i think the dubbed version is more evil because he never gave a reason why he killed them other then to tick off Goku

In the dub it seemed like vegeta just killed some people to incite Goku.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
I think, well i know Vegeta could go SuperSaiyan 3 if he was shown & told how like when Goku explained it to Trunks & Goten.
Vegeta's sacrifice i think he could have but i guess he was missing a trigger.

I think you're missing the point here,the only reason Akira introduced SSJ3 was to make Goku stronger than Vegeta because he's the main character of the show.

You see super saiyan forms are introduced so that Goku could trump his enemies,the first time it happened was to defeat freiza the second time it was for Cell and the third time it was for..? Surpassing vegeta!

SSj3 was pretty much useless against villains and it was the spirit bomb that ultimately killed buu so the only logical use for that form was to give goku an upper hand over vegeta.

 

[DoomSlayer87_Sss]

would have been cool to see ssj3 goku absorb the spirit bomb like he did against android 13 and then disentegrate kid buu with a single punch

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Or KidBuu absorb the spirit bomb & kill Goku & Vegeta.
Remember pure good or evil can create a spirit bomb.

​

lol wut? Kid buu is PURE EVIL Spirt bomb will pretty much destroy kid buu if he tried to absorb it.​

 

[DoomSlayer87_Sss]

goku‘s spirit bomb is made of pure living energy being evil kid buu is in no way pure meaning he would be destroyed if he tried to absorb it. Secondly baby vegeta doesn‘t make a spirit ball it is an energy death ball and requires no energy from organisms to create

 

[ROCKMAN X]

1. Why do you think KidBuu held it off & was pushing it back.

A direct hit spirit ball didn't kill Vegeta, Freeza, & KidBuu stops it. ​

That's still Negative energy death ball.. Goku's spirit bomb was made of positive energy which obliterated Majin buu.

​

 

[ROCKMAN X]

It's a spirit ball, it was created from the energy of others as a spirit ball has always been created.

2. Goku's spirit ball only killed KidBuu because of the wish.

I know but spirit bomb was lethal against buu because he was made of evil magic,there was no way kid buu could defend himself against a spirit bomb of positive energy.

And Goku struggling to kill kid buu was just there for climactic purposes only

 

[DoomSlayer87_Sss]

[e="VampireWicked, post: 542609, member: 15946"]@ef9 o shea
2. Actually Baby's negative spirit ball was energy taking from those that were under his control.
The sphere is comprised of the pure negative, dark-blue energy of all the possessed people under Baby's control, making it an evil Spirit Bomb, of some sort. Unlike the Spirit Bomb, however, the energy is evidently stored within Baby, and can be replicated (and possibly amplified) at any time after the initial energy is absorbed.

1. Why do you think KidBuu held it off & was pushing it back.

Spoiler

​

A direct hit spirit ball didn't kill Vegeta, Freeza, & KidBuu stops it. [/quote]

The spirit ball that hit vegeta was small the one that hit frieza wasn't powerful enough to kill him and the one for buu was being held off as goku was out of energy and couldn't give the final push it has to explode just touching them won't kill them

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Missing my point.
Since baby could create & absorb a negative spirit ball, so why couldn't he or so other pure evil blah blah blah corrupt a positive spirit ball & absorb it.

I mean seriously i know the positive energy spirit ball is suppose to disintegrate anything pure evil right, BUT HEY I just pointed out 2 instances where it didn't kill the target & one where the target was throwing it back.

So i say anything is possible don't you think.

Nah DBGT is non-canon so i don't think changing a spirit bomb to negative or positive is possible.

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

Baby's "spirit bomb" at best could be called a similar attack to Son's Spirit Bomb. Very similar but all together different. As every Anime show tells us, good positive energy (will power, life in general) ALWAYS beats Negative anything.