Taramafor
Well-known Member
This is going to be really in depth.
So let's work with what we do know using 3 as a template. Virgil says atop the tower "Might controls everything and without strength you can not protect anything". This sentence alone made it clear he wants to protect. Which to me was obvious. People he cares about. 5 simply confirms it. Now Virgil isn't the type to care about you just because you exist (a notion I actually agree with. EARN it) and will cut you down if you get in his way. Or even bother him (shown in Virgil's intro in 3. but he'll also give you a chance if you have a good reason). But once he cares about you then you got his respect. You have to FIGHT for it in his case (both metaphorically and not). He might be "mostly uncaring" but he cares in his own twisted way. Just about YOU though. Not "most people". So if you think about it he's one of the most loyal people out there. Cold hearted but not completely uncaring. Unlike with his "only evil" half. In some ways he's much like Big Boss from Metal Gear. You might see him as a bad guy but there's more to him then that. Everything he does has a greater meaning behind things.
So in other words Virgil's mad pursuit for power, which becomes misguided but starts noble is because he cared about others (namely one specific person who even to this time remains unknown). While Dante on the other hand had no one to care about at first (baring Eva but she's dead anyway). As luck would have it though Dante meets Trish and Mary and even Nero while Virgil is doing nothing else other then hunting for power. He wanted power but he lost sight of why. If you don't have the reminder itself around then it's easy to forget. Plus you can't bring back the dead and no one else currently living was worth respecting as far as he was concerned. On a more serious note if you don't care about someone that doesn't care (guanine or not) then this is why they want to burn the world. Do keep that in mind. Thus Virgil's "World be damned" mindset. It's even possible that Virgil is jealous of Dante. Kind of says so in 5.
So I'm looking at this in two ways. First, Dante got lucky, Virgil didn't. Man that's a gut punch. No wonder Virgil is cold hearted. If fate screws you over may as well screw the world, right? In some ways Virgil does but not without a reason. He's still gaining power but he's still waiting for the time when it needs a use. Until he gets corrupted in 1. Starts off holding out hope until 5s events (or even 1s) then things get turned around and then he has a reason to use power because suddenly he has a son who fights for his respect. Seriously, Nero fights for his acceptance (that reason is found during the fight. Not before. Before it's just to stop them killing each other).
But the other way of looking at it is that Virgil never looked for anyone to care about. Thing is he couldn't since he didn't know who to look for. The only connection Dante had at first was Virgil himself. And vice versa. But along the way he meets a lot of other people. While Virgil kind of... sticks Arkham in the stomach with a sword. Who ended up surviving and meaning to betray him anyway. In that scene I see Virgil being in denial. He assumed Arkham cared about Mary. And naturally didn't care for the reminder (because reminders can be painful) and so stabbed him. As much as I feel bad for Virgil he's a total hypocrite in that moment. As much as I hate Arkham he does a good job of telling Virgil that too. Then Virgil only further sticks the sword in him. Wish we had moments like that in 4 and 5. Actually 5 feels like it missed an opportunity in that regard. "Power or someone you care about". Right in Virgil's face. Maybe in 6? Any situation where a character questions themselves is good.
And Nero himself very nearly became like Virgil in 4 because of Kyrie (confirmed). Which just reminds me of people I lost and regained myself and gets me thinking about other people that aren't so lucky. And all I can do with Virgil is feel sorry for him. He'll cut you in two if you get in his way but who gave him a reason to care? If the world burns him he'll burn the world for power because who cares. But Virgil isn't after pity either and will cut you down for that too. You can win but you better have a better reason then "Because good/right". Ironically Nero made one of those reasons smacking his face in. Which Dante had been doing the whole time but he did it in a whole different way. As I type this I suddenly realise what a clever move Capcom did.
Virgil changes in 5 due to Nero. But that's the present, not the past. Dante also manages to stop trying to kill him at every meeting because of Nero (but obviously Dante and Virgil still fight. Just not "to the death" anymore. We see this in the post credits). As Nero says in 5 "There are other ways". Did Dante try ANY other way then fighting Virgil before this? Or use violence at the FIRST opportunity? And could have all of Virgil's events in 5 have been avoided if Dante reached out to him sooner rather then later? As Nero shows you have to be a stubborn jackass in order to convince someone else that there's another way (given Dante's thing is stubbornness I'm surprised it wasn't him). As someone that's actually had to do that (It's about as difficult as fighting Virgil on hell and hell mode) I can say it works or at least has the possibility too. Nero talking sense into both Dante and Virgil might be "cheesy" but it's also something that works and can and does happen. What is cheesy can also be true. Two others you care about at each others throats until they realise they're both important to you (at which point they have to give each other a break due to transit of property logic. Which Virgil and Dante kind of do). And even Virgil is able to stop his slaughtering and clean up his own mess. Going back to hell to cut down the tree. He knows he's responsible and wants to fix things. Though naturally he'll never say that. He cares but he's not going to be mushy about it.
It's kind of surprising how complex a character Virgil is. And that's not even getting into V. Just what IS Virgil's nightmares (the bird mentions it). Best I can figure is that it means his fear of losing those close to him. Which results in pushing everyone away as a defence mechanism. But that still doesn't explain why the animals wanted to kill Dante (beyond the fact Virgil might have been afraid of letting Dante close). Even I don't know what to make of that part. It's technically not even Virgil's memories though. It's "Nelo Angelo's". And Dante mentions something about "trying to atone for something". Past failures maybe? But how does trying to kill Dante fix anything?
So let's work with what we do know using 3 as a template. Virgil says atop the tower "Might controls everything and without strength you can not protect anything". This sentence alone made it clear he wants to protect. Which to me was obvious. People he cares about. 5 simply confirms it. Now Virgil isn't the type to care about you just because you exist (a notion I actually agree with. EARN it) and will cut you down if you get in his way. Or even bother him (shown in Virgil's intro in 3. but he'll also give you a chance if you have a good reason). But once he cares about you then you got his respect. You have to FIGHT for it in his case (both metaphorically and not). He might be "mostly uncaring" but he cares in his own twisted way. Just about YOU though. Not "most people". So if you think about it he's one of the most loyal people out there. Cold hearted but not completely uncaring. Unlike with his "only evil" half. In some ways he's much like Big Boss from Metal Gear. You might see him as a bad guy but there's more to him then that. Everything he does has a greater meaning behind things.
So in other words Virgil's mad pursuit for power, which becomes misguided but starts noble is because he cared about others (namely one specific person who even to this time remains unknown). While Dante on the other hand had no one to care about at first (baring Eva but she's dead anyway). As luck would have it though Dante meets Trish and Mary and even Nero while Virgil is doing nothing else other then hunting for power. He wanted power but he lost sight of why. If you don't have the reminder itself around then it's easy to forget. Plus you can't bring back the dead and no one else currently living was worth respecting as far as he was concerned. On a more serious note if you don't care about someone that doesn't care (guanine or not) then this is why they want to burn the world. Do keep that in mind. Thus Virgil's "World be damned" mindset. It's even possible that Virgil is jealous of Dante. Kind of says so in 5.
So I'm looking at this in two ways. First, Dante got lucky, Virgil didn't. Man that's a gut punch. No wonder Virgil is cold hearted. If fate screws you over may as well screw the world, right? In some ways Virgil does but not without a reason. He's still gaining power but he's still waiting for the time when it needs a use. Until he gets corrupted in 1. Starts off holding out hope until 5s events (or even 1s) then things get turned around and then he has a reason to use power because suddenly he has a son who fights for his respect. Seriously, Nero fights for his acceptance (that reason is found during the fight. Not before. Before it's just to stop them killing each other).
But the other way of looking at it is that Virgil never looked for anyone to care about. Thing is he couldn't since he didn't know who to look for. The only connection Dante had at first was Virgil himself. And vice versa. But along the way he meets a lot of other people. While Virgil kind of... sticks Arkham in the stomach with a sword. Who ended up surviving and meaning to betray him anyway. In that scene I see Virgil being in denial. He assumed Arkham cared about Mary. And naturally didn't care for the reminder (because reminders can be painful) and so stabbed him. As much as I feel bad for Virgil he's a total hypocrite in that moment. As much as I hate Arkham he does a good job of telling Virgil that too. Then Virgil only further sticks the sword in him. Wish we had moments like that in 4 and 5. Actually 5 feels like it missed an opportunity in that regard. "Power or someone you care about". Right in Virgil's face. Maybe in 6? Any situation where a character questions themselves is good.
And Nero himself very nearly became like Virgil in 4 because of Kyrie (confirmed). Which just reminds me of people I lost and regained myself and gets me thinking about other people that aren't so lucky. And all I can do with Virgil is feel sorry for him. He'll cut you in two if you get in his way but who gave him a reason to care? If the world burns him he'll burn the world for power because who cares. But Virgil isn't after pity either and will cut you down for that too. You can win but you better have a better reason then "Because good/right". Ironically Nero made one of those reasons smacking his face in. Which Dante had been doing the whole time but he did it in a whole different way. As I type this I suddenly realise what a clever move Capcom did.
Virgil changes in 5 due to Nero. But that's the present, not the past. Dante also manages to stop trying to kill him at every meeting because of Nero (but obviously Dante and Virgil still fight. Just not "to the death" anymore. We see this in the post credits). As Nero says in 5 "There are other ways". Did Dante try ANY other way then fighting Virgil before this? Or use violence at the FIRST opportunity? And could have all of Virgil's events in 5 have been avoided if Dante reached out to him sooner rather then later? As Nero shows you have to be a stubborn jackass in order to convince someone else that there's another way (given Dante's thing is stubbornness I'm surprised it wasn't him). As someone that's actually had to do that (It's about as difficult as fighting Virgil on hell and hell mode) I can say it works or at least has the possibility too. Nero talking sense into both Dante and Virgil might be "cheesy" but it's also something that works and can and does happen. What is cheesy can also be true. Two others you care about at each others throats until they realise they're both important to you (at which point they have to give each other a break due to transit of property logic. Which Virgil and Dante kind of do). And even Virgil is able to stop his slaughtering and clean up his own mess. Going back to hell to cut down the tree. He knows he's responsible and wants to fix things. Though naturally he'll never say that. He cares but he's not going to be mushy about it.
It's kind of surprising how complex a character Virgil is. And that's not even getting into V. Just what IS Virgil's nightmares (the bird mentions it). Best I can figure is that it means his fear of losing those close to him. Which results in pushing everyone away as a defence mechanism. But that still doesn't explain why the animals wanted to kill Dante (beyond the fact Virgil might have been afraid of letting Dante close). Even I don't know what to make of that part. It's technically not even Virgil's memories though. It's "Nelo Angelo's". And Dante mentions something about "trying to atone for something". Past failures maybe? But how does trying to kill Dante fix anything?
