Final boss fight is confusing.

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

Ok why the heck did Vergil and Dante fight. After they defeated Mundus Vergil said that it is time for him and Dante to rule and that they are to treat their subjects with respect and to protect them. So Dante gets ****ed and fights Vergil. Then after he wins he says something like the people are mine to protect now. Then Vergil leaves. This fight was pointless. Vergil wanted to protect the people so did Dante. Vergil cant even be considered evil in this game. I know if they make a sequel that he will be evil in it because he feel betrayed and he should. Dante got mad for no reason at all.

 

[Loopy]

Dante fought Vergil because he said humans were like 'children' and his 'subjects'. While Vergil honestly thought he was doing the right thing by taking over from Mundus and thinking he was going to be different to Mundus, Dante was worried that Vergil was going to become like Mundus over time.

Mundus as well thought that humans were unable to rule themselves and claimed that he saved humans from their own bad behaviour by ruling them.

Dante is a guy who has spent his life being hunted down, imprisoned and very aware of demons infuence. He says to Mundus that he belives in freedom for mankind. If Vergil took over from Mundus, then to Dante it is the same as humans having no freedom.
Dante doesn't want humans to be his subjects or Vergil's, but he wants to protect them in secret from demons and ones like Vergil who want to rule.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

What your saying sounds right but, if thats the case they should have just talked it out. I just feel like their friendship shouldn't even had been broken over something so stupid. I hate to use that word but that what it is. Thank you for your insight though. I appreciate it.

 

[Loopy]

They could have talked, but for me, I dn't think that would have been in character for them.
All along, Vergil was working towards this goal thinking Dante would happily rule with him and see humans the same way as him. But when Dante doesn't, Vergil becomes disillusioned with his brother. He's so focused on his goal that he won't let anyone get in the way.

As for Dante, he's not mutch of a talker; he's an action guy. He is very focused on freedom for himself and for humans. I guess Dante just snapped, and figured he would rather fight and stop Vergil there than wait a few years for Vergil to be like Mundus.

 

[Joypad]

They could have talked, but for me, I dn't think that would have been in character for them.
All along, Vergil was working towards this goal thinking Dante would happily rule with him and see humans the same way as him. But when Dante doesn't, Vergil becomes disillusioned with his brother. He's so focused on his goal that he won't let anyone get in the way.

As for Dante, he's not mutch of a talker; he's an action guy. He is very focused on freedom for himself and for humans. I guess Dante just snapped, and figured he would rather fight and stop Vergil there than wait a few years for Vergil to be like Mundus.

From what I remember, Vergil's the one who raised his voice first towards Kat after he suggested that Kat wasn't that useful and by extend his stance towards treating humans as subjects to him was reaffirmed. That's what made Dante snap.

 

[Loopy]

From what I remember, Vergil's the one who raised his voice first towards Kat after he suggested that Kat wasn't that useful and by extend his stance towards treating humans as subjects to him was reaffirmed. That's what made Dante snap.

Yep, and that. Thanks for adding that point, kinda forgot it for a moment.
That would have pushed Dante over the edge. Kat did really risk herself for Vergil's cause but he counts her as nothing.

 

[JohnKasarinlan]

Kat did really risk herself for Vergil's cause but he counts her as nothing.

Vergil's logic: A girl that mostly did more than him in the game and only counts her as "useful".

 

[darkmanifest]

Hm, agreed. The problem with the fight is that it's supposed to be this dramatic betrayal, but Vergil hadn't actually done any betraying yet. He was dismissive towards Kat, but he didn't outright harm her, and he talked about ruling, but not feeding on humans (and besides, it would be years before he'd be able to take Mundus's place). So Dante tried to murder his brother over some vague ideal of freedom. Preemptive strike, sure, but you'd think Dante would give Vergil the same chance to change his views that Vergil gave Dante. Imagine if Vergil's reaction to Dante's "What makes you think I give a sh*t?" in the beginning was "Well, if that's how you feel, I better decapitate you now so you won't be a danger to the world in the future, here, hold still a second". It was a little hasty.

Now, true, Vergil's sociopathic behavior towards Kat and Lilith was seriously dubious, and it was clear he had no trouble using Dante for his own ends, but none of those valid points came up in the argument before they fought. So it just felt awkward to me.

 

[Gbraga]

They could have talked it out, and it would probably be actually better storywise, but dude, this is Devil May Cry, gameplay comes first. I'd be really ****ed if they gave up a possible fantastic boss fight just to make the bad story a little bit better.

They did screwed up the fight with those cutscenes too, but that's another matter.

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Yeah, I really don't understand how it could have escalated so quickly. It makes sense that they fought, but having it go to the extent that it did... like Dante trying to kill Vergil, and Vergil saying "I loved you, brother"... it feels like after the Mundus fight Ninja Theory was like "Alright guys, we're almost done... now, just just wrap this up. Lets uh, we still don't have a Vergil fight so lets do that... If we make a sequel, I want a Vergil fight in that too... so, lets make Vergil leave out of a feeling of betrayal. Right, that's good. No conclusion, that's good enough".
The overall story is disappointing since Ninja Theory make themselves out to be pro's at story telling. It feels like they tried too hard to shape this new world to the world we already knew. As a DMC game, the story is very well done. If they never bragged about their story telling skills, then I wouldn't really be complaining.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

I honestly think the Vergil fight was foisted on NT as "this must be in there" by Capcom, because the game would have ended right there, as they look down on Limbo City, contemplating how to guide humanity out of disaster and prevent the demons from moving right back in. It really feels like the NT team did not WANT to have Vergil by the final boss with how much they made him trying so hard to befriend Dante and make him his family again.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

Yeah, I really don't understand how it could have escalated so quickly. It makes sense that they fought, but having it go to the extent that it did... like Dante trying to kill Vergil, and Vergil saying "I loved you, brother"... it feels like after the Mundus fight Ninja Theory was like "Alright guys, we're almost done... now, just just wrap this up. Lets uh, we still don't have a Vergil fight so lets do that... If we make a sequel, I want a Vergil fight in that too... so, lets make Vergil leave out of a feeling of betrayal. Right, that's good. No conclusion, that's good enough".
The overall story is disappointing since Ninja Theory make themselves out to be pro's at story telling. It feels like they tried too hard to shape this new world to the world we already knew. As a DMC game, the story is very well done. If they never bragged about their story telling skills, then I wouldn't really be complaining.

in my opinion it escalated to that point because at first it wasn't them outright trying to kill each other, and then as the fight went on they started trying to outright kill each other, like when vergil "force pushed" dante into a wall, its represented by the environment how out of control the fight was getting, NT accomplished their job, telling a very good interpretation of the devil may cry story, and telling a good story in general, the ending may not have been as great as enslaved odyssey to the west's ending but it was still really good and its gonna be nice to see if vergil's downfall does a good job of either
-setting up a sequel in a cool way
-ending NT's dmc story

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

Vergil's logic: A girl that mostly did more than him in the game and only counts her as "useful".

lol. The only thing he did was kick down doors.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

They could have talked it out, and it would probably be actually better storywise, but dude, this is Devil May Cry, gameplay comes first. I'd be really ****ed if they gave up a possible fantastic boss fight just to make the bad story a little bit better.

They did screwed up the fight with those cutscenes too, but that's another matter.

It would have been better if they just spared. Vergil: Now that Mundus is done with. Lets see if your really are stronger . Dante: Bring it on Brother!! . See that would have been completely better. I understand that gamepay comes first i mean come on the Mundus fight was depressing lol but it seriously would have been better if they just spared.

 

[Gbraga]

It would have been better if they just spared. Vergil: Now that Mundus is done with. Lets see if your really are stronger . Dante: Bring it on Brother!! . See that would have been completely better. I understand that gamepay comes first i mean come on the Mundus fight was depressing lol but it seriously would have been better if they just spared.

I think it would've been even worse storywise, that would make no sense at all lol

And Vergil clearly shows sings of his intentions throughout the game tbh, what people were expecting when he was clearly willing to abandon Kat without even thinking twice? He thinks objectively, he didn't become a bad person, I believe he honestly just wanted to guarantee peace.

 

[788Masri]

What your saying sounds right but, if thats the case they should have just talked it out. I just feel like their friendship shouldn't even had been broken over something so stupid. I hate to use that word but that what it is. Thank you for your insight though. I appreciate it.

Vergil was not concerned with talking. he was the person who first initiated the fight and made the first stance (ie reached for his sword) further more. during the fight Dante is constantly telling Vergil to stop. listen.think. please. but Vergil is having none of it. he just becomes more aggressive and ruthless. if you look at his face when they fight (more obvious in cutscenes during fight) he has this demented, cruel smile. like he takes a dark pleasure from this. so you can see the evil has already taken root inside him.
he loves being in control. he said he learned to hack because it gives him that sense of controlling things. as such he wouldnt have backed down no matter what. its just his nature. like an OCD, you cant talk those things out.

while i did wish it was more light hearted and NT saved the heavy stuff fora later game. this is just as good. neigh better. now they can jump to a DMC3 esq plot whenever as we now have ample reason why Vergil and Dante would fight. rather than the "last year" incident.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

I think it would've been even worse storywise, that would make no sense at all lol

And Vergil clearly shows sings of his intentions throughout the game tbh, what people were expecting when he was clearly willing to abandon Kat without even thinking twice? He thinks objectively, he didn't become a bad person, I believe he honestly just wanted to guarantee peace.

I dont know its still confusing to me. I know Vergil didnt care for Kat at all. The only person he cared about was Dante and we cant say that he was using Dante because Vergil's final words were "I loved you brother" he could have said "i was using you anyway" but, he didnt. All im saying is i beleive Dante started it. Dante yelled at Vergil first. Even when Dante was yelling Vergil was still calm. (I think Dante yelled first, im not sure).I really think Dante only fought Vergil because of Kat. Vergil wasn't trying to start anything. He had a big smile on his face when he said it was him and Dante's time to rule. He even said he was going to respect humans and protect them but no. Dante throws a temper tantrum over Kat. Dante is seriously confusing.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

Vergil was not concerned with talking. he was the person who first initiated the fight and made the first stance (ie reached for his sword) further more. during the fight Dante is constantly telling Vergil to stop. listen.think. please. but Vergil is having none of it. he just becomes more aggressive and ruthless. if you look at his face when they fight (more obvious in cutscenes during fight) he has this demented, cruel smile. like he takes a dark pleasure from this. so you can see the evil has already taken root inside him.
he loves being in control. he said he learned to hack because it gives him that sense of controlling things. as such he wouldnt have backed down no matter what. its just his nature. like an OCD, you cant talk those things out.

while i did wish it was more light hearted and NT saved the heavy stuff fora later game. this is just as good. neigh better. now they can jump to a DMC3 esq plot whenever as we now have ample reason why Vergil and Dante would fight. rather than the "last year" incident.

You make a good point. In the middle of the boss fight when Vergil was smiling and all the other crazy stuff i knew he was turning evil but then after the fight. This dude gets up says " i loved you brother". Like come on. Now that dosnt make any sense. This dude was going crazy then he gets up off the ground and becomes a softy.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

What started it was Vergil stating that humans were children who needed to be ruled...exactly what MUNDUS told Dante before they went at it. Dante heeded Phineas' warning; Once you take out the Tyrant, who takes his place? Vergil wouldn't even acknowlege that without Kat, they would have been DEAD. Vergil acted like she had been an obediant pet, doing small tasks, Dante saw her as an equal, and thus represented what Humanity could be capable of. The minute Vergil said "Stand aside," Dante knew that his brother had made an decision that would damn them both; Vergil was becoming Mundus.

 

[788Masri]

You make a good point. In the middle of the boss fight when Vergil was smiling and all the other crazy stuff i knew he was turning evil but then after the fight. This dude gets up says " i loved you brother". Like come on. Now that dosnt make any sense. This dude was going crazy then he gets up off the ground and becomes a softy.

they are brothers, while that is a very strong bond. they had reached an im-pass. Vergil wanted to rule, Dante to give them freedom. the two were mutually exclusive. one of them had to give in. yet they are both too damn similair. they are incredibly stubborn in their beleifs and mindsets. if they weren't so strong willed Mundus could have broken them ages ago. as such neither were going to back down no matter what. it was inevitable. vergil and dante love eachother, but that isnt enough to make either of them give up their beliefs...

he isnt "going" crazy he isnt crazy yet. he just has that disposition