Crossing the line. Yay or Nay?

[xMobilemux]

Since gaming has become mainstream and catering to the masses is pretty much a necessity, diversity, innovation and variety is pretty much non existent in the world of modern gaming as is taking serious risks, unless you are a massive company who can afford to take risks and **** people off.
Very few games today are taking the risk of doing things that would offend the oversensitive public.
Things like intentional sexism, objectification, torture, extreme violence, extreme gore and rape.
Movies and novels handle those things just fine, but when they're put into a game, people get very offended and cause weak developers/publishers to wimp out and remove said material(see Splinter Cell Blacklist's interactive torture feature removed).
Personally I want gaming to push for that stuff more, I want to see that stuff more in gaming just to see how it can be used to make far better games and even better stories, because all these dark, gritty and emotional story heavy games are been there, done that and have gotten so damn boring and predictable because none of them cross the line and just stay the same predictable crap, but embracing the very brutal stuff that would make modern gamers whine and cry is something I would want to check out.
For example, Kojima is taking a more narrative approach to this with MGS5 Phantom Pain by featuring extreme violence, gore, torture, intentional sexual objectification and implied rape, something you don't often see a developer want to have in his game and is pushing for it. It's offending the softies out there and that means it's going to be too intense for them and that's something I gotta see.
Then there's the mighty Grand Theft Auto 5 which took a more gameplay oriented approach to it with an interactive torture segment that offended a lot of people, but unlike the wimps at Ubisoft, Rockstar kept it in their game and it was a new experience that the sadist in me enjoyed, never tortured someone in a AAA game before.
I personally want more games to push for stuff like that, crossing the line is something that needs to be done more because if people don't cross the line then everything is just gonna be the same and get boring real fast.

I'll even go as far as to say that I want to see a brutal on screen rape scene in a game, that is something that could make for one hell of an intense moment in a dark story, I would say an interactive rape scene, but that would just result in said game being rated an adult porn game or something, yeah a lot will be offended by it, but it would change all these story heavy bores into more intense experiences.
Like say, The Last of Us, we all knew from the beginning that Joel and Ellie would survive and walk off into the sunset kind of stuff, hence the predictable crap, but how much of an experience do you think that game would have been story wise if Ellie was tortured and killed in a brutal way near the end of the game?
No one would have seen it coming and it would have been intense.
Going all Game of Thrones and killing off a loved character in brutal and offensive ways would be something new and interesting for gaming.

But what do you all think? Should games cross the line to deliver new experiences or just stick to the predictable safe stuff we have now?

 

[Chancey289]

Sounds like you are pushing for more controversial things in gaming just for the sake of being just that.

Thing is when you're touching upon sensitive subjects then they key word is "sensitive".

Artistically speaking if you feel the need to cross that line then I wouldn't stop anyone on the grounds of just simply artistic integrity. However, if you really are tossing in a rape scene, torture scene, etc. just because you can then not so much. I have nothing against graphic stuff. I mean, one of my favorite anime shows is GANTZ. One of my favorite films is Ichi The Killer. I enjoy flicks like 100 Days of Sodom and Cannibal Holocaust and my guilty pleasure is the entire Saw franchise.

But, there's a line man. Lines like A Serbian Film which has scenes of necrophilia and a newborn baby getting raped. THAT isn't really entertaining. It's just one effed up movie trying to be as sick as possible. It's senseless.

You present sensitive subjects then they are just that, sensitive. You're gonna have people out there who probably won't dig it but artistically if its needed to tell your story then by all means do so. Just handle it properly. With a video games though you're also on a different level because this is an interactive medium.

And if you wanna bring up The Last of Us that game is already pretty violent. Almost exhaustingly so to some people. Does it really need more?

Plus movies still don't just get away with that stuff without a hitch but, we all do know the gaming industry is not taken as seriously as other mediums of entertainment. And for good reason because the gaming industry is still a very immature one that has a lot of growing to do.

 

[AngelEyes]

If they play it safe then they are not artists, just bankers and money men. But there should be justification for the content in the world they is presented and the characters. People said Bioshock Infinite was too gory and it should just be a pretty game, and I'm like... guys its full of slavery and ugly racists, and civil war... Thats what I mean.

 

[xMobilemux]

Sounds like you are pushing for more controversial things in gaming just for the sake of being just that.

Thing is when you're touching upon sensitive subjects then they key word is "sensitive".

Artistically speaking if you feel the need to cross that line then I wouldn't stop anyone on the grounds of just simply artistic integrity. However, if you really are tossing in a rape scene, torture scene, etc. just because you can then not so much. I have nothing against graphic stuff. I mean, one of my favorite anime shows is GANTZ. One of my favorite films is Ichi The Killer. I enjoy flicks like 100 Days of Sodom and Cannibal Holocaust and my guilty pleasure is the entire Saw franchise.

But, there's a line man. Lines like A Serbian Film which has scenes of necrophilia and a newborn baby getting raped. THAT isn't really entertaining. It's just one effed up movie trying to be as sick as possible. It's senseless.

You present sensitive subjects then they are just that, sensitive. You're gonna have people out there who probably won't dig it but artistically if its needed to tell your story then by all means do so. Just handle it properly. With a video games though you're also on a different level because this is an interactive medium.

And if you wanna bring up The Last of Us that game is already pretty violent. Almost exhaustingly so to some people. Does it really need more?

Plus movies still don't just get away with that stuff without a hitch but, we all do know the gaming industry is not taken as seriously as other mediums of entertainment. And for good reason because the gaming industry is still a very immature one that has a lot of growing to do.

Not really just for the sake.
Something like the baby raping and stuff shouldn't be shown in a video game, but yeah like you said, something like that is just trying to be sick for the hell of it and wouldn't even really fit in any video game story, but if say a game is about you hunting a serial killer who kills kids & babies and then the game shows said killer killing an actual baby on screen, it won't be entertaining, but it will make one hell of an impact, drop jaws and open eyes.
That's where I'm getting at.
Modern games have become so predictable and safe that nothing really makes an impact anymore, GTA5s torture scene got me into the game after I thought it was getting boring cause I thought nothing jaw dropping was going to happen, that torture scene was an eye opener for me and made the game exciting cause I didn't know what would show up next.
Now say if you play as a male character who sees his girlfriend, sister, daughter or whatever get violently raped right in front of him, or you play as a female character who gets raped and I don't know seeks revenge or some relevant story, if it's just stated in a backstory or is implied then it doesn't make much of an impact and the game just becomes another predictable bore.

Another, less extreme example is something I mentioned on the Resident Evil forum about how to handle Alex Wesker if he shows up in Resident Evil 7 and have him make as much or more of an impact as Albert Wesker, let's face it, with how Capcom is now, Alex Wesker will probably just be another wasted villain like Simmons, but if Capcom wanted Alex to make as much of an impact as Albert in a single game, then they could have Alex cross one very fan sensitive line and do something like break Claire's neck in front of Chris or vice versa, actually kill 1 or 2 long time main characters of Resident Evil.
Would be one hell of a moment, fans would be shocked and Resident Evil could actually register a pulse.
That's just a less extreme example of how I want lines to be crossed.

Games need to push for those kind of things, because everyone is just playing it safe.

Rape would have even been relevant in Last of Us if it wasn't trying to be so safe, you're in a world full of bandits and marauders, if it showed a scene in which said marauders captured a woman and showed a optional segment in which the bandits were beating her, ripping off her clothes and even got to the actual rape, since it would be optional, the player could look away if it was too much, but look away or not, it would still be an intense moment and show how dark and extreme the apocalypse can be, but instead they showed just men and women being shot, like a soldier who's killed so much, I've seen plenty of that and it has no effect anymore.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Silent hill 2 did not only cross the conventional boundaries of adventure video games&storytelling it went beyond that to set a new standard that is still unparalleled by any other video game in existence,it doesn't have scripted events and it doesn't rely on cutscenes instead it relies solely on the gameplay to progress the story forward.

Games don't need overly graphic R-rated content on screen to convey a great story,atmosphere and controversial themes just look at silent hill 2! it deals with stuff that you would find in a kubrick movie and its rated M.

I agree with @chancey its like you just want R-rated stuff in video games for the sake of it.

Going all Game of Thrones and killing off a loved character in brutal and offensive ways would be something new and interesting for gaming.

err.. not really johnny in GTA 5 was surprisingly killed by trevor and i've heard that in one call of duty game your character gets killed by the enemy and the game then follows the story of the killer.

 

[Chancey289]

Also being mature doesn't just mean being Rated R. Think about that.

The industry shouldn't even try to push some boundary when it still is going through very evident growing pains.

 

[AngelEyes]

It's rare to find a level of writing in games that has real depth though, something which is mature thematically rather than just 'mature themes' is hard to come by.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

You do know that if games were to 'cross the line' like that then the next time some teenager goes to School and shoots his entire class and then himself, the VERY first thing they will blame would be games for the increasing extremities.

 

[AngelEyes]

They've been blamed for 15 years, I don't think there's much left to milk from that scapegoat.

 

[Blue_Rose]

You do know that if games were to 'cross the line' like that then the next time some teenager goes to School and shoots his entire class and then himself, the VERY first thing they will blame would be games for the increasing extremities.

That's one thing that outrages me. It's a game. For example, million have Grand Theft Auto 5 and yet I don't see people robbing banks or messing with government because of a game. All controversy.

 

[Chancey289]

You do know that if games were to 'cross the line' like that then the next time some teenager goes to School and shoots his entire class and then himself, the VERY first thing they will blame would be games for the increasing extremities.

Eh, video games are just going through the same exact thing even films went through. Video games are basically the new kid on the block to point fingers at. People will ALWAYS find something to blame.

 

[xMobilemux]

"Our games are as good as ever, they're just not for you anymore."
Why Japanese Games are Breaking Up With the West

This is too true, there's even people on this forum who complain about the anime style of Devil May Cry.
I don't blame Japan for keeping their games exclusive, as much as I want to play them.

You do know that if games were to 'cross the line' like that then the next time some teenager goes to School and shoots his entire class and then himself, the VERY first thing they will blame would be games for the increasing extremities.

Video games are going to be blamed for everything, the media is all over the negative things of video games but don't give 2 s**ts about the good things.
To quote a James Bond villain:
"There's no news, like bad news."

Crossing the line is something that needs to happen, all this crap that's happening in gaming now is predictable and just boring.
Kojima is taking the risk and I like that, Rockstar took the risk and I liked the game, but I wonder, when Telltale gets to their Game of Thrones series, will they bring along the extreme violence, sex and nudity or will it just be another show and tell playing it safe.
The extreme violence can make an impact, on the TV series at The Mountain vs The Viper, when The Mountain delivered the skull crushing fatality to The Viper, that was an eye opener and made an impact.
If gaming can deliver stuff like that then game stories might actually stop being so boring and predictable and could even make gameplay better.

 

[ReaperHunter]

Yay or Nay? Hmm it would depend on the situation. Games that would try to be shocking or controversial just for the sake of being shocking or controversial would make it seem akin to a bad plot twist, you know those kind of plot twist that are just kind of there to go "Ha Gotcha!" without any other purpose besides that. However if the shock/controversy would fit or make sense within the context of the game then I don't see why risks shouldn't be taken.

 

[xMobilemux]

Classic movies did these controversial moments where they were relevant and became timeless classics.
For example, Mad Max 2, a post apocalyptic world full of marauders, there was this one scene in the movie where a man and a woman were driving a buggy away from the marauders, but they caught up to them, rammed them off the road and the man was tortured while the woman had her clothes ripped off, was raped, then killed and you saw the whole thing happen.
That scene was relevant because that shows how brutal the apocalypse can be.
I highly doubt the remake will show stuff like that.

Then there's the legendary Robocop, the violence and gore in that movie made it a classic and unfortunately got a god awful PG-13 remake.
The violence and gore was relevant in that movie because it shows how brutal a crime ruled city can be, also let's be real here, do you really think dozens of rounds from 12 gauge shotguns wouldn't make a mess or if a robot with 2 massive guns fired dozens of rounds into a small human being, do you really think he'd just get a few small bullet holes in him.
Both guys would have been and were torn apart by those weapons and the movie wasn't afraid to show it.

Movies and games today are just too damn soft to cross the lines that can make them far better experiences, the only way Doom has become relevant again is by upping the violence and gore to the ultra violent via Brutal Doom.
The gore in MGS5 Phantom pain is looking good and making an impact, but I want something else to tackle something sensitive and make it an eye opener.
Whether it's relevant or just because doesn't matter much to me, but it would be better if it was relevant.

 

[Director Bison]

I hear ya.
If i could import japanese titles easily then i'd leave alot of these western influences behind.

i want to learn Japanese just so i can play all the awesome games i know i'm missing out on
also Japanese culture seems very cool to me

 

[Chancey289]

Japanese culture isn't all that different from us over here, like at all. Trust me. It's because of western influence it is what it is today. It's isn't the anime and cosplay wonderland that weeaboos think it is peeps.

And gaming as a whole for the most part suck. Not just Japanese games which have been in the sh!thole for quite some time. I primarily stick to indie games when looking for something new. Other than that I'm playing older games.

My older consoles don't collect dust.

 

[Chancey289]

What do you mean? All you need is some freaking common sense really. Google it or something damn. Anyone in their right mind knows Japan isn't Weeaboo Wonderland.

But if it has to be broken down then fine.

Gather around kiddies. History lesson.

You know in Rurouni Kenshin how it takes place around the Meiji Era? Yea, that was a real thing because the west came in and started introducing their way of life over there. And it caused the Boshin War that led to Japan being a centralized state adopting western judicial, political, and military institutions. All that mumbo jumbo.

Fast forward to present day and you have a country that still used all that stuff to be what it is today and is like BFFs with the west when it comes to stuff like entertainment. I mean, sure Japan still has their own culture and the west is really a melting pot but all in all don't expect to be as shell shocked as you might think or hope.

You go in Japan shouting "moshi moshi kawaii desu" sh!t and people will think you're on crack or something lol.

And like Japan doesn't love the west?

-They remake our movies (yes, Japan does the SAME EXACT THING the U.S. does with similar results for the most part).

-They love our music (my friend Konata who has lived in Japan all her life actually hates J-Pop and her favorite artist is Katty Perry) And I use to date a girl who grew up in Japan. She's half Japanese and has a cool name. It's Kira.

-And hell, just look at anime. Some of the most popular anime shows like Full Metal Alchemist and Attack on Titan don't even take place and Japan and nearly their entire cast of characters are not Asian.

Sure Japan is the patron saint of weird and absolutely bizarre on the internet that paints it out like it's not even living on planet Earth but, it's not really like that. It's relatively normal. Those crazy game shows are usually like cancelled late night programming that were also like even pornos. (looking at you wacky Guess Who By A Person's A$$ show)

 

[Chancey289]

Another example, these guys really dig Linkin Park. Yes, the west's influence is going strong whether you like it or not.

 

[Innsmouth]

To be blunt. Nay. Problem with controversy, that some uncreative developers are sometimes abusing it just to make their games to be talked about. Kojima's interpretation of Metal Gear 5 is there to show how terrible war is. So it has it's own goal. But putting some controversial stuff without any cause, just dumb, and mostly proofs tat somebody lacks writing skills, because a) he shows stuff that doesn't really serves any purpose b) he shows controversial stuff, to promote his game, instead making interesting ideas that can function without it.

 

[Chancey289]

Putting in more controversial stuff just for the sake of shock value doesn't make you mature. In fact, it makes you the opposite.