Your thoughts on bringing Lucia back in DMC6

[berto]

"Bickering women are funnier than women be shoppin'.

That is something I said in relation to the anime. The way Trish and Lady bonded over buying things and billing Dante, and Patty adding to that, was a head slammingly bad moment in the anime and the way their relationship suddenly became tremendously shallow I correlate to that moment. That's when they stopped being characters and became hollow, featureless, background people. They no longer have stable traits.

Catfights over nothing would be gold.

I don't use the word gold as an implication of quality but rather as a form of contras. For what we have now that would be Tennessee Williams.

Not sure why elaboration on an idea would only "count" if anyone was officially hired to do it or there was some promise of sending the ideas to Capcom to work with.

The point is that flushing out and idea to that degree is not mandatory nor necessary, especially when it will lead nowhere. I'm not going to do anything with it, not going to write a fanfiction, not going to pitch it to Capcom, it's going to be written here and that's as far as it's going to go. Why bother flush it out if it's not going anywhere? I'm invested enough to put in an idea but not enough to force myself to work out the details.

I almost expect them to give him a silly fedora

That would be the Faust hat.

 

[Foxtrot94]

That would be the Faust hat.

I'm talking about Vergil.

 

[berto]

I'm talking about Vergil.

And I'm saying that the reference to the fedora is the Faust hat. There'd be no point in making the same reference twice, even if it's with the right character.

 

[Hungry Alien]

If I were to try and bring back Lucia, I would make her have her own spin off alongside Lady and Trish. Like someone said, they are the B team and can't keep up with the sons of Sparda. So unless we got an actual story with an dramatic event forcing the SoS to ask for more pairs of hands, the ladies are useless like they were in DMC 5.

So first we need an event that isn't big enough to get Nero involved. Since Lucia is stuck as the defender of her island, the event will take place here. She won't be able to handle it on her own, and she will ask for help and Morrison will take the call. I assume she knows him or he got the info from his network, he is the info broker after all. To make Trish and Lady involved, I would make Morrison get the call while in the DMC office talking to the ladies about Dante's debt and how it fall onto them since they own the shop now and that they need to pay it fast if they want to keep the shop. So the ladies now need some big cash quickly, and an angry Trish order Morrison to let them handle the call he just had since she wants the gig and money for herself (and Lady then tag along). Then the gang head toward Vie de Marli and meet Lucia there.

So at first, Trish would pay little attention to Lucia, being focused on getting the job done quickly before others demon hunters shows up. Lady would follow Trish, but be less hostile to Lucia. This status quo would last for a while with Lucia trying to bond with the two with no success. Then they would meet the antagonist, and I would make him represent something for the 3 ladies : their relationship wit their respective fathers. The antagonist would be a demon who is able to create artificial demons and control them, while also having mind reading and psychic abilities. The big bad boss would also make those servant female for his own twisted pleasure, being a sadistic phallocrat. This would affect all of the ladies and be a reminder of their own "father figure". The villain would also read each of their mind and create specific illusions in order to disturb them during the fight, ending in a tragic loss for the ladies. They would escape separated , with the antagonist letting them go while assuring he can track them to further break their mind latter for his own pleasure.

After that, the separated ladies would spend a night alone, with a focus on their thoughts and inner fears which could be made into a stage given how the antagonist is able to track them and create illusions. They would eventually go out and fight though the streets, still affected by illusions, and making their way to the start of the game. There they would reunite and have a chat, each revealing their experience with their fathers. None of them would be willing to continue the fight, and the DMC ladies would start heading home with Lucia unable to try to drag them into this hell once more. But at the chopper, Morrison would stop them, arguing about how they can just give up. Trish would then lash out at him, desperate to leave the island, but Morrison would point out that the demon can track them down, and thus they need to destroy him. He would then have a chat with the broken ladies, acting like the fatherly figure they never had, and he would find the words to get them back on their feets. Finally, the ladies would come at the demon again, this time overwhelming their respective insecurities and fears and defeating him.

This spin off would create a new bond between the ladies born of their similar experience while giving Morrison more presence then just being the info broker. We could also have some insights on how the devil hunter work plays out, if there is competition, how the fee is due, and how did the reveal of demon in DMC 5 affected this job.

 

[Morgan]

@berto So hold up, you meant that "women bickering" comment in specific reference to the anime and not the games, because the anime Flanderized the women to nonsense, but I mentioned the anime and how much it sucked for portraying the women how they did and

I'm pretty sure I haven't mentioned this having anything to do with the anime till you brought it up.

So did you bring that up or did I? Because I definitely showed up after you said your thing.

I just wanna make sure I'm reading things right.

Everything! Her character, playstyle, who to voice her than the last one and who'd be a better face model. Including background and development.

How bad was her playstyle really when DMC4 ripped off her look, weapons, and fight style to use for Gloria? They knew what they were doing with that -- potentially fueling speculation that 4 would tie in to 2 and that people liked Lucia enough to be interested in Gloria or that Gloria's presence would "redeem" DMC2 by proxy. That has some value that they felt was necessary to introduce to newer players. But of course Gloria turned out to not be her own character and DMC4 in general sucked with the intensity of 1000 suns, with Gloria's reduction to fanservice included in that, since the budget and development time wasn't fit for it.

There's nothing wrong with Lucia's face and voice. She's as stylized as every other character we'd seen pre-RE Engine, but facially and with respect to her being Afro-French, Lucia at that time looks closest to Aya Jones, and she was voiced by a French actress so there's at least better authenticity there than having an American fake a French accent. Voice acting work doesn't only fall on the actor but on proper direction; an otherwise good or experienced actor can still deliver a sub-par line if they have no context to deliver the line in, there's not enough time given for them to act and do better takes, or the company is being cheap. Ex: Reuben Langdon is popularly accepted as "the modern Dante" but he still sounded like ass in the anime and the production was like they did their lines in a trash can. Also ex: DMC2 had a legendarily subpar development time. The entire game started "development" before the first game even shipped, who-knows-what happened to it, then went from just a Stinger animation to "base definition of a game" in 4-6 months when Itsuno came on. It's a miracle the game even exists.

Anyway Lucia's background doesn't need revamping or an overhaul any more than Nero got, it needs elaboration. Her background is that she's a protector of Dumary, and believed herself to belong to a native clan "with the blood of devils" same as Matier, suggesting right there that there's a perfectly viable society of devil-descended humans and that Dante himself isn't special outside of him being born of Sparda as some kind of focal lore character the series keeps filtering its story through. A society where demonic power is entrenched as a normal part of people's lifestyle as opposed to treated like a legend (DMC1, 3) or treated like a moral failure/aberration (DMC4) sounds boss and could stand to be looked into.

The "Nero treatment" didn't retcon him to have a wholly new backstory because him having the Blood of Sparda and being raised around Kyrie and Credo was whack (though IMO, his relation to Sparda by Vergil does cheapen his presence), they doubled down on it. Lucia's backstory can be given the same respect and expanded, not discarded wholesale.

 

[V's patron]

@Ronin Unlike Trish, Lucia never knew she was a clone so you could use that to expand on her character.

@Morgan To me, Nero's connection to Sparda doesn't cheapen him but it can be a crutch. With hindsight, I feel like they should've switched 4 and 5's plot. Lead with the Vergil connection and save the dull love story for a spinoff.

 

[Morgan]

To me, Nero's connection to Sparda doesn't cheapen him but it can be a crutch. With hindsight, I feel like they should've switched 4 and 5's plot. Lead with the Vergil connection and save the dull love story for a spinoff.

Pretty much.

5s plot is "Oh no! Nero lost his arm! And he found out he's related to a Sparda! How will he cope?"

Except 4 happened. In which Nero momentarily lost the use of his normal arm and straight-up got a better one out of his desire to protect a loved one before the game even had opening credits, and then heard he was related to Sparda and didn't give a flying duck, and the novel says he was even adopted because he looked like Sparda. His relation to Sparda was the worst kept secret in the universe considering the physical characteristics in common. Why is any of that an issue for him now? How many times does one guy have to tap into his Inner Resolve for an Arm-Restoring powerup the same as before? He's Future Trunks with Gohan copouts.

 

[berto]

@berto So hold up, you meant that "women bickering" comment in specific reference to the anime and not the games

No, it had to do with the games, too. In the games they are paper thin, but it began in the anime. I very specifically remember the moment I metaphorically raised my hands in frustration of this. It was the last episode, near the end, and they were laughing in the background at something said and that's when they became background characters in my mind, but that's not limited to only there. Their cutscene in the SE of 4 had them acting nothing like they would in their original appearances making their presence vague and lacking real structure or definition. It is most blatant in the anime, sure, but it applies to their presence everywhere, not just there.

So did you bring that up or did I?

Well, you're definitely the one who specified in the anime. I didn't mention it by name because, even if it was the origin of my fastidiousness with their portrayal I didn't want it to be associated only to that. 'Well, in the anime...' no, in all of it. It's why I didn't say the anime.

Because I definitely showed up after you said your thing.

That's true. I don't know why this is so important to you but if you want to interpret this as 'as a matter of fact it was you who brought it up first' I won't mind. I have no attachments to this debate. I said my thoughts and why I felt that to be a good approach. I am not invested enough to care if this goes one way or the other.

 

[BlackAngel]

Personally, I think they should've do a DMC2 remake to rewrite the story, and characters to be more engaging and interesting. I think the backstory of Lucia is very interesting that she was a artificial demon, and she was raised by Matier to be a soldier. They could've done a lot more from that if they have good writers.

 

[Ronin]

If only there was a way to change Lucia for the better and loved.

 

[Morgan]

If only there was a way to change Lucia for the better and loved.

I don't know what you want, honestly. People provided their reasons and methods in this very thread, they've answered your questions, gone into detail if needed, etc. If the issue is that it doesn't fit your specific-yet-uninformative criteria for "better" and "loved", you could just say that instead of crowdsourcing for ideas but pushing that Lucia is still 100% worthless and needs a bottom-to-top overhaul because "everything" is wrong with her.

 

[V's patron]

@Ronin
Lucia wasn't divisive like Nero was back when he debuted. People liked her just not her debut game.

So what's holding her back is the dev team not caring to use her again.

The DMC5 prequel novel "Before the nightmare" showed us how easy she could've returned. Just invent a new reason for Dante to go to Dumary Island. Or just give her a DLC where she has to defend Dumary from the Qlipoth.

So a possible appearance in DMC6 is on the cards. I'd prefer her in a spinoff with Lady and Trish.

If you don't wanna remake 1 and 2 you could just invent a reason for Nero to those locations.Maybe some ex- order members are in Dumary and they have evil intentions?

 

[Ronin]

I don't know what you want, honestly. People provided their reasons and methods in this very thread, they've answered your questions, gone into detail if needed, etc. If the issue is that it doesn't fit your specific-yet-uninformative criteria for "better" and "loved", you could just say that instead of crowdsourcing for ideas but pushing that Lucia is still 100% worthless and needs a bottom-to-top overhaul because "everything" is wrong with her.

@Ronin
Lucia wasn't divisive like Nero was back when he debuted. People liked her just not her debut game.

So what's holding her back is the dev team not caring to use her again.

The DMC5 prequel novel "Before the nightmare" showed us how easy she could've returned. Just invent a new reason for Dante to go to Dumary Island. Or just give her a DLC where she has to defend Dumary from the Qlipoth.

So a possible appearance in DMC6 is on the cards. I'd prefer her in a spinoff with Lady and Trish.

If you don't wanna remake 1 and 2 you could just invent a reason for Nero to those locations.Maybe some ex- order members are in Dumary and they have evil intentions?

Well I had thought about what if Lucia follows Dante & Vergil in the demon world or in the human world she meets Nero for the first time and they work together as partners in a mission Nero is undertaking.

She has feelings for Dante, so its gonna take a while for the old legend to adjust to her.

Plus she needs a special playstyle. Like from Nioh 2 in a way that's ninja-esque.

Can she be given the Osiris & Aquila as her new melee weaponry? Let her keep the bowgun too but updated for land.

 

[V's patron]

Well I had thought about what if Lucia follows Dante & Vergil in the demon world or in the human world she meets Nero for the first time and they work together as partners in a mission Nero is undertaking.

She has feelings for Dante, so its gonna take a while for the old legend to adjust to her.

Plus she needs a special playstyle. Like from Nioh 2 in a way that's ninja-esque.

Can she be given the Osiris & Aquila as her new melee weaponry? Let her keep the bowgun too but updated for land.

The latter option with Nero is easier to sell to the audience. The former would require a deeper dynamic with Dante that doesn't exist in the games. She's not even in this one so why would she go after him?

She could get Osiris and Aquila.

 

[Ronin]

The latter option with Nero is easier to sell to the audience. The former would require a deeper dynamic with Dante that doesn't exist in the games. She's not even in this one so why would she go after him?

She could get Osiris and Aquila.

Okay... so what kind of dynamic would you expect to see work on her?

Plus a better voice would suffice too to fix her.

 

[V's patron]

Okay... so what kind of dynamic would you expect to see work on her?

Plus a better voice would suffice too to fix her.

Seriously though its ok to want to do a Dante/Lucia pairing in DMC6. Her just following him to hell feels weird because the series hasn't established a real dynamic between them. So you'd have to find another story to tell.

My pitch is a teamup spinoff between Lady, Lucia and Trish.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

I don't see why she needs to be in a mainline entry personally

She wasn't compelling enough in 2 to be that memorable, if she had been then fan outcry would have demanded her back

Even though i know ill get an angry emoji or anger from ronin, i think a spin off game with just the females of the franchise

Would serve better for lucias return

Just my thoughts, I've nothing against lucia, she just wasn't stand out for me

 

[Hungry Alien]

I don't see why she needs to be in a mainline entry personally

She wasn't compelling enough in 2 to be that memorable, if she had been then fan outcry would have demanded her back

Even though i know ill get an angry emoji or anger from ronin, i think a spin off game with just the females of the franchise

Would serve better for lucias return

Just my thoughts, I've nothing against lucia, she just wasn't stand out for me

The problem with a spin off for the ladies is how to make it matter. Like you said, Lucia didn't make an big impression in DMC 2, and I would say that Trish and Lady really pummeled down with DMC 4 and 5, and are now just here for the fanservice. The spin off goal would be to make the girls appealing again without falling into easy fanservice, so the ladies could be relevant for future games.

 

[Deleted member 41833]

Considering how both Trish and Lady have been nothing but glorified cameos in their own games I'd rather not. It's either all or nothing and every single game just adds more characters and it's getting too crowded with every subsequent game.

It used to be the James Bond thing. New game, different girl. But then DMC3 got popular and people wanted to see what happened to Lady and that lead to having Trish around again and now it's twice in a row.

I've actually been thinking about this the other week, it occurred to me how crowded the game feels at times and it legit makes me wonder what the best decision is when it comes to having multiple characters in a game such as Devil May Cry. I love playing dante but I don't want him losing some of his moveset because of other characters. But at the same time , I sometimes like having variety cause it feels more interesting this way. Either way, I hate the idea of playing with a limited moveset.

 

[V's patron]

The problem with a spin off for the ladies is how to make it matter. Like you said, Lucia didn't make an big impression in DMC 2, and I would say that Trish and Lady really pummeled down with DMC 4 and 5, and are now just here for the fanservice. The spin off goal would be to make the girls appealing again without falling into easy fanservice, so the ladies could be relevant for future games.

To me, it just needs to be a fun and engaging experience. I can forgive fanservice if the gameplay is fun and the story grabs me. FF10-2 and Ff13-2 have a ton of flaws but it grabbed with its story so I can overlook them.