Y'know what? I can't accept this.

[Chancey289]

Some people here need to grow the f#ck up.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That's just my suspicions - I hope I'm allowed to say what I think NT's motives are. Because honestly, I see no other reason to put 'f*ck you' in there so many times and put so much emphasis on it.

The emphasis is yours, not theirs.

Like I said, I have no problems with cursing in games - I've played plenty of M-rated games. This is purely a matter of writing to me, and I don't see why scribbling 'F you' on a guest list was even included in the game.

So you didn't like one throwaway joke, big deal. That doesn't devalue the rest of it.

As for suspicions, you're allowed those (why wouldn't you be), but I don't think you can hold them up as facts for your side of a debate, much like a scientist can't posit his own theories as facts, because theories are flimsy and bound to change based on results or evidence, which can prove or disprove a theory. It needs to be solid fact.

If you think that's what NT's motives are, that's fine, but don't expect people to share that same opinion, or adhere to it. Because, at least to me, it seems like you are essentially putting words in NT's mouths, or implications to their actions, where there are none, to prove your criticism.

It's as easy as me saying something like "Kamiya is sexist for putting Bayonetta in such alluring poses! He did it all to objectify women and I think the game sucks because of it! Harble-barble!"

Note: That's not my view of Bayonetta, at all.

 

[Lionheart]

Dante's use of "f#ck" is used emphatically like 90% of the time. He's not using it as retorts, because he has actual retorts (I'm your prom date, You don't look a day over 12,000, Taking you off the air, A face only a mother could love, etc). Yes, he replies with a hearty "F#ck you" once to the vulgar Poison, and he writes it on a clipboard, but remember that Dante is an angry individual around demons, and in regards to them, that's when he spouts the anger-fueled emphatic.

Why is it people run around thinking that "f#ck" is his trademark, as if it makes up the majority of his lexicon...? Especially when he spouts it off angrily as much as any other person could - liiiiiiike in GTA5. Better acting maybe? Who knows...

Well, I don't think ''I'm taking you off the air'' is a great retort - no offense. In fact, it basically isn't, because it has little ironic quality to it. ''I'm your prom date'' has no relevance to the situation, no logic, other than as a reply to the question ''who the f*ck are you?''

I'll admit ''you don't look a day over twelve thousand'' was pretty good, though.

But the fact that he has some retorts does not make up for the 'f*ck you' on the guest list and such. And I'm not saying Dante was the only one who said it. I'm pretty sure Dante only said/wrote it like three times. But then there's Poison and the stripper in the club who say it too. And for some reason, a lot of emphasis was put on it, as though it were meant to be funny. I don't get that.

 

[Lionheart]

The emphasis is yours, not theirs.

So writing f*ck you on a guest list is not enough emphasis? Having the characters in the game say it like five or six times is not enough? Man.

If you think that's what NT's motives are, that's fine, but don't expect people to share that same opinion, or adhere to it. Because, at least to me, it seems like you are essentially putting words in NT's mouths, or implications to their actions, where there are none, to prove your criticism.

Then why don't you give me a good reason why so much emphasis is put on the words 'f*ck you'?. I haven't heard you come up with any arguments yet. Because it seems to me that it was meant to be funny. Only it's not. So what is your reasoning for f*ck you being used so deliberately?

It's as easy as me saying something like "Kamiya is sexist for putting Bayonetta in such alluring poses! He did it all to objectify women and I think the game sucks because of it! Harble-barble!"

That's not quite the same. Bayonetta is a strong character whose personality is explored a bit as well, which disproves the idea that Kamiya wanted to objectify women. In this case, there's nothing to disprove that Dante's f*ck you was meant to be funny. Nothing to prove it either, I know, but at least I think something. Right now, I'm leaning towards my own thoughts because there's more reasoning behind it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, I don't think ''I'm taking you off the air'' is a great retort - no offense. In fact, it basically isn't, because it has little ironic quality to it. ''I'm your prom date'' has no relevance to the situation, no logic, other than as a reply to the question ''who the f*ck are you?''

"I'm your prom date" would be the cheesy way of saying "I'm here to take you out (kill you)." :tongue:

But the fact that he has some retorts does not make up for the 'f*ck you' on the guest list and such.

I'd say you think it doesn't make up for it because you put so much emphasis on it. It's like a grown-up joke in a Disney movie, it just flies over the kids' heads and is meant for those who get it, or might find some humor in it. It's no big deal if you didn't get it/find it funny, it's a throwaway joke, just move on >.<

And I'm not saying Dante was the only one who said it. I'm pretty sure Dante only said/wrote it like three times. But then there's Poison and the stripper in the bar who say it too. And for some reason, a lot of emphasis was put on it, as though it were meant to be funny. I don't get that.

Well, Poison is Poison, she's supposed to be that vile and vulgar thing that you're not supposed to like - so, job well done on that one NT. The stripper? Eh, she was ****ed for being blown off, and that's a common retort to such things.

In the end, is it possible the reason "(You) don't get that" is because you placed emphasis and implications on it all that you then don't understand? Building up this idea in your head that that's what they did, and then not being able to understand why they would do so, simply because the only reasoning would be to find it at fault? Maybe the reason you don't get the effect, is because what you think they implied has no causality.

 

[Caiden]

To me the quality of NT's writing is all based on intent. If they intended for Dante to come off the way he is by having his yell F*ck at times, then they succeeded and you can take it or leave it. But if they intended for DmC to have some high level and insightful dialogue then the writing would be pretty lazy and they failed. The intent of writing is pretty much everything. Honestly DMC would have some of the worst writing ever but that is basically what Capcom was going for. DMC is based around chessy martial arts movies with bad dialogue. They purposefully make the dialogue really campy and filled with one liners and they do a pretty good job of it.

 

[Lionheart]

"I'm your prom date" would be the cheesy way of saying "I'm here to take you out (kill you)." :tongue:

In the end, is it possible the reason "(You) don't get that" is because you placed emphasis and implications on it all that you then don't understand? Building up this idea in your head that that's what they did, and then not being able to understand why they would do so, simply because the only reasoning would be to find it at fault? Maybe the reason you don't get the effect, is because what you think they implied has no causality.

- I know, but it has no relevance to the situation they're in, their surroundings or anything. I guess it does hold relevance to Poison's looks, because nobody would want to literally be Poison's prom date, but that's exactly why that line has no power. Maybe he meant ''I'm your prom date'' with the meaning: ''Let's dance'' ('I'm going to hack you to bits'), but he doesn't follow up with that. It's like NT used irony in the wrong way. Like irony reversed.

- You mean Dante saying f*ck you has no reason other than being meant as a way for him to express his anger? Even though he wasn't exactly angry after he punched the bouncer? Because that's the big issue for me; writing it on that guest list. It certainly seems like it was meant to be funny to me, but maybe I just have to accept that NT wasn't really thinking anything when it put that into the game.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So writing f*ck you on a guest list is not enough emphasis? Having the characters in the game say it like five or six times is not enough? Man.

What's the difference here between DmC and GTA5 then? They aren't emphasized in the slightest by anyone, and are a natural thing that angry people say, and that's how it's written. Again, any emphasis put on it is by you the viewer, by...I dunno...taking offense to it, or not liking it (despite you saying you don't have a problem with it). It's like being upset that Franklin and his friends (GTA5) say "nigga" too much. By finding fault with what is a natural part of that specific culture, I am putting more emphasis on it than I need to.

People swear, it's natural. I don't see why it's okay for GTA5 to do it, but it's not for DmC. Is it because GTA5 is more grounded in reality, while DmC is a fantasy game...?

Then why don't you give me a good reason why so much emphasis is put on the words 'f*ck you'?. I haven't heard you come up with any arguments yet.

WHAT EMPHASIS!? Do they have some "F#ck counter" that goes off everytime someone says it? Does the volume get louder to emphasize it? Does a star fall from the sky every time someone says it? What is this emphasis?! You need to clarify what the game is doing to emphasize it before I can respond.

Because it seems to me that it was meant to be funny. Only it's not. So what is your reasoning for f*ck you being used so deliberately?

What's my reason? Uh...because that's how people talk...especially when upset. When I get really angry the first words that usually dribble out of my mouth are sometimes "f#ck." Many others probably do, too. In the end, I'd bring us right back around to GTA5, and ask you why they swear in that? Or why the bangers in GTA5 use "nigga" like it was going out of style?

It's deliberate because they are writing characters that speak authentically. This guy is a banger, so he speaks as one. This man is very angry with how his life is turned out, so he swears a lot because that's just what people do. Dante himself had a hard life and hates demons with an undying passion - so he swears too.

And did you know, there have been studies that when upset, swearing aloud can actually help calm nerves, or lessen pain? It's as therapeutic as just screaming, but...well...randomly screaming during a sentence is odd as hell.

In this case, there's nothing to disprove that Dante's f*ck you was meant to be funny. Nothing to prove it either, I know, but at least I think something. Right now, I'm leaning towards my own thoughts because there's more reasoning behind it.

Or, y'know...what disproves it being meant to be funny is the fact that the entire tone of the scenes in which they are used. What part of many of the scenes where it's used is it supposed to be funny? Dante and Poison's verbal battle before their physical one isn't supposed to be funny, it's tensions rising, it's anger swelling.

Of course you lean towards your own thoughts, because you made up the reasoning that you agree with. Yet, remember how that doesn't. What I'm trying to tell you is that if you're going to put up your side of the argument on that, you're going to need proof. Right now the burden of proof is on you, because we can see that there's no humorous tone in many of the scenes, so why on Earth should you expect that they were trying to be? You're placing that expectation where there isn't one, and then criticizing them for your expectation.

This is similar to the arguments that they use "f#ck" to seem edgy or cool. The classic series was known for oozing cool whenever it could, so you expected things were done for cool factor. However, the same is not applicable to DmC. Scenes aren't trying to exude some cool/awesome/edgy/funny tone at all times to emphasize being cool/awesome/edgy/funny.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

- I know, but it has no relevance to the situation they're in, their surroundings or anything. I guess it does hold relevance to Poison's looks, because nobody would want to literally be Poison's prom date, but that's exactly why that line has no power. Maybe he meant ''I'm your prom date'' with the meaning: ''Let's dance'' ('I'm going to hack you to bits'), but he doesn't follow up with that. It's like NT used irony in the wrong way. Like irony reversed.

It's sort of a two-pronged jab, a threat on her life, and an insult to her looks. And it not having relevance to the situation is somewhat beside the point, oftentimes our classic counterpart would say things with little relevance, eg DMC3 Dante talking at length about parties when surrounded by death and clearly no streamers and balloons :tongue: That's what cynicism and facetiousness is, making light of things with little or no regard to relevance sometimes.

- You mean Dante saying f*ck you has no reason other than being meant as a way for him to express his anger? Even though he wasn't exactly angry after he punched the bouncer? Because that's the big issue for me; writing it on that guest list. It certainly seems like it was meant to be funny to me, but maybe I just have to accept that NT wasn't really thinking anything when it put that into the game.

The bouncer was wasting his time, blocking his entry, plus Dante does have that slight anger problem and not caring for many others. It was a total throwaway joke, it's actual relevance is pretty minuscule as part of the whole, being summed up quickly as "getting past the bouncer."

A throwaway joke is just sorta...there. You find it funny, or you don't, but either way the story moves on, it's not integral to it, y'know? That bit is one of the few points where "f#ck" is used, but it's also one smaller element to the whole of the cheeky joke, it's not the be all end all of it.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Guys guys guys let's take this on Jeremy kyle lol

 

[Lionheart]

What's the difference here between DmC and GTA5 then? They aren't emphasized in the slightest by anyone, and are a natural thing that angry people say, and that's how it's written. Again, any emphasis put on it is by you the viewer, by...I dunno...taking offense to it, or not liking it (despite you saying you don't have a problem with it). It's like being upset that Franklin and his friends (GTA5) say "nigga" too much. By finding fault with what is a natural part of that specific culture, I am putting more emphasis on it than I need to.

The difference is that in GTA V, they have a natural reason to say it, whereas in DmC it seems very scripted. Dante writes it on a guest list and smirks. That whole scene is built around it. To me, that implies there's something I should like about him writing f*ck you on the guest list, but I can't find a reason to like it, because it's not funny.

If you still don't understand what I mean with 'emphasis', when the only purpose of that entire scene was to have Dante write f*ck you on the guest list, then I can't help you any further.

Or, y'know...what disproves it being meant to be funny is the fact that the entire tone of the scenes in which they are used. What part of many of the scenes where it's used is it supposed to be funny? Dante and Poison's verbal battle before their physical one isn't supposed to be funny, it's tensions rising, it's anger swelling.

Well, then they did a terrible job at making it seem like a tense situation. Really, saying **** you to each other, and spraying puke thereafter is meant to create tension/express anger seriously? It's really more funny to me than that it shows anger.

Right now the burden of proof is on you, because we can see that there's no humorous tone in many of the scenes

*...Really. This is just ridiculous. And how is the burden of proof on me when you haven't proven that 'many scenes weren't meant to be funny'? I guess the burden of proof lies on both of us, but we both can't give any proof, so I suggest we just stop and agree to disagree.

 

[Lionheart]

It's sort of a two-pronged jab, a threat on her life, and an insult to her looks. And it not having relevance to the situation is somewhat beside the point, oftentimes our classic counterpart would say things with little relevance, eg DMC3 Dante talking at length about parties when surrounded by death and clearly no streamers and balloons :tongue: That's what cynicism and facetiousness is, making light of things with little or no regard to relevance sometimes.

Yeah, but at least that made sense. Old Dante saw fighting demons as something fun, something like a party. As he said: ''this is what I live for! I'm absolutely crazy about it!''

A throwaway joke is just sorta...there. You find it funny, or you don't, but either way the story moves on, it's not integral to it, y'know? That bit is one of the few points where "f#ck" is used, but it's also one smaller element to the whole of the cheeky joke, it's not the be all end all of it.

Wait, so first you argue it wasn't meant to be funny, and now you're saying it was?
Well, I don't have time for this anyway. Need to get busy translating some stuff.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The difference is that in GTA V, they have a natural reason to say it, whereas in DmC it seems very scripted. Dante writes it on a guest list and smirks. That whole scene is built around it. To me, that implies there's something I should like about him writing f*ck you on the guest list, but I can't find a reason to like it, because it's not funny.

So, the one scene of Dante writing a naughty word on a clipboard is indicative of the rest of the game's vapid use of the word? Even when it's used in a natural way, just like in GTAV?

If you still don't understand what I mean with 'emphasis', when that WHOLE SCENE seems to have been built around Dante writing f*ck you on the guest list, then I can't help you any further.

I've already mentioned how the scene is not built around the use of the word f#ck - it's one small part of a scene, it's presence could have been replaced by anything else written on the clipboard, and the scene would still play out exactly as it does. If the scene was built around specifically writing "f#ck you", wouldn't the scene fall apart if it was something else? No, the joke was "You're not on the list" *punch* *write* "I am now." What is written isn't really the point. He could have written Stinky Wizzleteats and the scene would have played out the same.

*...Really. This is just ridiculous. And how is the burden of proof on me when you haven't proven that 'many scenes weren't meant to be funny'? I guess the burden of proof lies on both of us, but we both can't give any proof, so I suggest we just stop and agree to disagree.

Well no, the burden of proof does not lie on me, because I'm not the one implying things that aren't there! You're the one saying there's something where others don't see it. You need to provide evidence to what you're talking about, actual tangible things that point to how it was supposed to be funny.

Actually, f#ck, what are we talking about just then - just the bouncer scene...or the use of the word in others as well...?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Wait, so first you argue it wasn't meant to be funny, and now you're saying it was?
Well, I don't have time for this anyway. Need to get busy translating some stuff.

This brings me to why I asked that question in the end of my last post :'( I think we got all mixed up here. I'm sorry >.<

Let's just forget it. I'm gon' go eat muh pizza.

 

[Lionheart]

This brings me to why I asked that question in the end of my last post :'( I think we got all mixed up here. I'm sorry >.<

Let's just forget it. I'm gon' go eat muh pizza.

Ow... right, I think so too.
Shoarma wrap... wait... that word doesn't even exist in English, does it? So... shishkebab? ...I don't know.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Ok.....Pointless DmC/DMC argument # 8638 has commenced underway.

Seriously will people (or well the fanbase that is) continue fighting until there is nothing left to fight about anymore?

 

[Lionheart]

Ok.....Pointless DmC/DMC argument # 8638 has commenced underway.

Huh? Pretty sure it already ended :tongue:

 

[Stylish Nero]

Huh? Pretty sure it already ended :tongue:

Ok now its time to wait for Pointless DmC/DMC argument #8639

 

[Demi-fiend]

Ow... right, I think so too.
Shoarma wrap... wait... that word doesn't even exist in English, does it? So... shishkebab? ...I don't know.

Shawarma.

Best. Meal. Ever.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I think one of my favorite usages of the F word in DmC is in the first mission, when you get hit, he says a pretty believable and natural "f**k."