Why I think the juxtaposition between Dante and Vergil was done better in DmC

[Exejpgwmv]

First, let's start off by looking at the contrast made between Dante and Vergil in DMC3:

Appearance
This was actually done surprisingly well, aside from Dante's coat.
While most of Dante's clothes looks like something anyone could find in their closet.(Brown jeans, a pair of old looking boots, and some finger-less-biker gloves.)
Vergil looks like he actually came to hunt some demons; all of his clothing looking well maintained, polished, and actually looks like it might provide some kind of protection against attacks.(Most noticeably the pseudo-tunic under his coat.)

Personality
Dante and Vergil aren't exactly polar opposites in this category.
Both have been shown to be just as hot blooded and prone to violence as each other; not to mention just as prone to taunting an enemy in the middle of a fight.
Though Vergil can at least be talked down and can be convinced to actually listen to what you have to say.
While getting DMC3 Dante to stop playing around and listen to what people have to say has proven to be, "difficult".
Also, it is important to note that Vergil is notably more "cruel" than Dante in a variety of ways.

Gameplay
This where the two brother are the least different from each other.
Both of them fight like they've practiced sword-play for years on end and as if fighting demons is the easiest thing in the world.
Neither making a single miss-step or amateur looking swing in any of their moves; they look like they know exactly what they're doing. Which kinda makes Vergil's more professional looking appearance pointless when his less practiced looking brother fights just as competently as he does, both in and outside of cut scenes.
Vergil's moves don't even look more practical than Dante's, most of his moves are just as acrobatic and overly flamboyant as Dante's.

Now, onto DmC:

Appearance
Complete polar opposites in this category.
Vergil's has this overly stylized and fancy looking getup; like something you'd wear to a dinner party. His hair is neatly combed back, wears a pair of surgical gloves, and generally just carries himself with this air of smugness.
While Dante obviously has very little concern for what he looks like; all of his clothing literally looking like something you could buy from the bargain bin in a clothing store. He has very unkempt hair, worn finger-less gloves, though he does carry himself with this air of arrogance, similar to Vergil's.

Personality
Same deal here as well.
Dante has this general laid back way of talking to most people, regardless of who or what they are. Can be very hot blooded, raunchy, and is prone to violence. Though he does know when it's time to get serious and stop with the attitude.
Vergil on the other hand has a very cold and calculating way of acting, often trying to manipulate most of the people he meets, and gain their trust. He isn't nearly as hot blooded or raunchy as Dante, though he has his moments, but he has no problem with using violence to get what he wants.
Also, Vergil rarely ever taunts his enemies, while Dante has a ton of pre-programmed taunts and taunts enemies frequently in cut-scenes as well.
(Ironically, Dante is the more honorably one of the brothers in DmC.)

Gameplay
Now the difference in how they fight isn't as drastic as their appearance or personalities, but it is noticeable.

Vergil fights as if he has at least some form of official training and seems to have a very well grounded fighting style. Don't get me wrong, he's no master swords man, he's just noticeably more competent at fighting than Dante.
Dante's fighting style seems to be forged from raw experience and instinct, some of his moves having him stumble or using his weapons in a not-so-optimal manner. (Though this also raises the questions as to how Dante won the final fight against his brother, which I will make a thread about later.)

So what do you guys think?
Agree, disagree, or have anything to add to what I said?

 

[Viper]

From what I saw, DMC3 Dante and Vergil were not supposed to be so much different people, as a same person that took different paths in life. As kids they were the same, then one chose humanity, the other chose demon way of fighting for more power.
In comparison to his dragon emperor brother, I'd describe Dante's outfit as more primal. Tiger, perhaps? In eastern mythology, tiger is dragons enemy (matter and spirit).
I can't really talk about gameplay, not my area.

Neither can I speak of the other game, not my thing.

 

[Innsmouth]

Pretty much disagree. While appearance pretty much spot on (Aside that nobody wears clothes like nVergil to parties).
Personality-wise, while in original game I got feeling that Dante and Vergil are 2 sides of one coin, in DmC I had feeling its beaten cliche of opposites (cold on outside, warm on inside and vice versa). We dealt with it many times before, so it felt like Hollywood trope to me.
Combat-wise, I never played as Vergil in DmC, so i can't compare them both, but in DMC it only makes sense that they both are professional fighters. In actual gameplay Vergil moves require more skill to learn, while Dante easier to pick and play. Another thing is Vergil's reliance on summoned sword moves, which separates him from Dante's gunplay. Generally I think it fits their personalities with Vergil's style being more conventional ones and relying on sword play, while Dante being all-around guy, who adjusts to all kind of weapons.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Gameplay wise, I gotta disagree.

In DMC3, it's crystal clear how they're different from each other.

We got Dante, whose "screwing around" kind of nature reflects on his moves, which are overly flamboyant and CUHRAYZEEEE!!! with the only exception being his Beowulf moveset, maybe.
This also reflects on his battle cries, full of "Wooohooo!" "Ah-ha!", "Sweet Dreams", etc., and of course his taunts.
You can clearly tell he's like, having the most fun of his life while fighting (and yeah, all these elements make ME having the most fun too xD).

Then we got Vergil, whose style is completely different.
His moves are not nearly as flamboyant looking as Dante's, even though just as flashy.
His animations reflects his primary feat: speed and weapon swift expertise.
We got moves like Judgement Cut, whose animation consists of him drawing and resheathing Yamato so fast that you can merely see a little hand movement before dimensional-cutting slashes tear demons to shreds.
Overall, he's way more straightforward than Dante.
Even his battle cries reflect it, he doesn't scream for fun, he's cold even there, he says stuff like "Die!", "Scum!", and of course the legendary"Where's your motivation?".
Also his taunting style his different (and cooler imo), you got him scraping off his hand and emitting bored sounds, or he twirls Yamato and gets into fighting position restoring his DT (this was done to highlight the fact that he's more in touch with his demonic side than Dante, a really nice touch).

Agreed on how they play in DmC though.

So overall, I'll say that difference in characterization while actually playing as them was done a little better in DMC3.

Personality wise, I think I'll comment later but be aware that you most likely just opened Pandora's box.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Personality wise, I think I'll comment later but be aware that you most likely just opened Pandora's box.

And when those demon hordes come marching in, I'll be ready.

No, but seriously. Please can we make sure we keep this as nice as possible. I know it might be difficult for some of you. The temptation to have a bash at something someone has said because it differs from what you've said. But try to resist the urge. These particular type of threads are ones that are surefire to attract negative attention. So for anybody who doesn't take this warning seriously, be it on your head and not mine.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

From what I saw, DMC3 Dante and Vergil were not supposed to be so much different people, as a same person that took different paths in life. As kids they were the same, then one chose humanity, the other chose demon way of fighting for more power.
In comparison to his dragon emperor brother, I'd describe Dante's outfit as more primal. Tiger, perhaps? In eastern mythology, tiger is dragons enemy (matter and spirit).
I can't really talk about gameplay, not my area.

Neither can I speak of the other game, not my thing.

Could be, but the general consensus I see from most fans is that Vergil was to be Dante's polar opposite.
Though what you just said does explain a lot things.

 

[Judge]

In both DMC3 and DmC Vergil is more of an anti-hero. Even though we don't know what Vergil wanted to do with the power of Sparda in DMC3. We assume he is an honrable fighter with good intentions at heart.

DmC Vergil is more of a pragmatic character. He wants to take down demons but he will kill if its necessary to do so.

With DMC3 theres not much information in the game that explains their backgrounds. It was never really covered on why Vergil turned out the way he did and why Dante turned out differently.

With what you said at the end; I would like to see that thread with the final fight of DmC. I think that Vergil should have defeated Dante in the final fight. The only reason I can think of that Dante would defeat Vergil is that Dante defeated various demons and gained more weapons. Dante used his diverse array of weapons to defeat Vergil.

Although in DmC's story Dante is made out to be the stronger of the two. Thats the same case with DMC1 and DMC3 where Dante is stronger than Vergil in those games too.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

(Aside that nobody wears clothes like nVergil to parties).

I did say his clothes were hyper stylized; only reason I said you might find someone like Vergil at a dinner party is because he wears a pair of dress pants and dress shoes.

Combat-wise, I never played as Vergil in DmC, so i can't compare them both, but in DMC it only makes sense that they both are professional fighters. In actual gameplay Vergil moves require more skill to learn, while Dante easier to pick and play. Another thing is Vergil's reliance on summoned sword moves, which separates him from Dante's gunplay.

Now this is where I seem to come to a point of contention with most people.

I personally didn't find it all that difficult to play as Vergil.(Even his mobility wasn't that hard to adjust to.)
And I wouldn't call Vergil's moves practical either, especially not his Force-Edge or his gauntlet move set.

Also, why does it make sense that they would both be professionals?

 

[Foxtrot94]

And I wouldn't call Vergil's moves practical either, especially not his Force-Edge or his gauntlet move set.

Devil May Cry is not (and it shouldn't be) about actual practicality. It's about stylishness and over the topness.

However, in both DmC and DMC3 you can clearly see how the kind of Iaido- inspired "over the topness" Vergil possesses is more... "focused" and swift than Dante's and that's the main difference between the two.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Then we got Vergil, whose style is completely different.

I wouldn't say "completely" different.
Vergil obviously enjoys a good fight just as much as Dante does, it's just that his taunts are noticeably less cheesy.

His moves are not nearly as flamboyant looking as Dante's, even though just as flashy.
His animations reflects his primary feat: speed and weapon swift expertise.
We got moves like Judgement Cut, whose animation consists of him drawing and resheathing Yamato so fast that you can merely see a little hand movement before dimensional-cutting slashes tear demons to shreds.
Overall, he's way more straightforward than Dante.

That is debateble, considering that a lot of Vergil's moves are similar to Dante's (sometimes even being exact copies) yet he's just faster for some reason.
So his speed is less an indication of straightforward-ness and more that the devs arbitrarily decided that Vergil should be faster overall.

 

[Foxtrot94]

His straightforwardness is noticeable in DMC3.

His launcher with Yamato for example, is a simple drawing movement, that can be followed up by another simple downwards movement and a sheathing animation. Nothing to do with twirling Rebellion or A&R to launch an enemy for example.

Or Rapid Slash, him simply dashing forward leaving a trail of slashes behind.

His unique signature moves such as Rapid Slash, Upper Slash and Judgement Cut have a pretty different flavor from Dante's signature moves, like Prop Shredder, Dance Macabre or Million Stab.
Without even mentioning the crazy combos, which are the ultimate factor of difference between the two brothers's styles and the ultimate reason why I will never ever consider their fighting styles similar at all.

Also, "his taunt are less cheesy". Ehm, yeah. That's a characterization difference as well, you know.

Tbh, that's something that irks me a little bit in DMC4 SE, the fact that they gave him some of Dante's moves like Million Stab or Rebellion Combo B. But then again, gameplay is not canon in the SE, so I can ignore it. And besides, they gave him something more fit to his style too, so I won't complain too much.

 

[Innsmouth]

I did say his clothes were hyper stylized; only reason I said you might find someone like Vergil at a dinner party is because he wears a pair of dress pants and dress shoes.

Actually , thing is, that you just don't venture into high-society part in jacket coloured with historisized patterns.

Now this is where I seem to come to a point of contention with most people.

I personally didn't find it all that difficult to play as Vergil.(Even his mobility wasn't that hard to adjust to.)
And I wouldn't call Vergil's moves practical either, especially not his Force-Edge or his gauntlet move set.

Also, why does it make sense that they would both be professionals?

Because unlike characters in DmC, both Dante and Vergil were hunting and fighting demons on regular basis. In DmC neither of them does it before game kicks in. Dante lacks experience, while Vergil proved to be completely inferior in his swordsmanship to Dante and appears more of pc geek, than experienced Demon-Hunter unlike his original version.

 

[Foxtrot94]

while Vergil proved to be completely inferior in his swordsmanship to Dante and appears more of pc geek, than experienced Demon-Hunter unlike his original version.

Tbf, oVergil wasn't exactly depicted as a demon hunter, even though he slayed some demons himself.

But I get what you're saying, Vergil's depiction in DmC is more of that of a computer expert/tactician rather than a particularly skilled warrior. Unlike his brother, who has been chased by demons all his life and had to learn to defend himself, that's why he outmatched Vergil almost effortless in their final battle.

 

[Chancey289]

Actually , thing is, that you just don't venture into high-society part in jacket coloured with historisized patterns.

Because unlike characters in DmC, both Dante and Vergil were hunting and fighting demons on regular basis. In DmC neither of them does it before game kicks in. Dante lacks experience, while Vergil proved to be completely inferior in his swordsmanship to Dante and appears more of pc geek, than experienced Demon-Hunter unlike his original version.

I'm positive you never played the game because you are flat out just getting things wrong. Or just zoned out on anything concerning the story.

Dante and Vergil are both still experienced fighters in DmC, just not as refined because they are both young, and DmC is basically Dante:Year One.

Dante grew up on his own dealing with demons that attacked him on a pretty consistent basis. Also the demonic authority that kept the world submissive which Dante never abides by. Vergil also built up a lot of fighting experience because he establishes the Order. You think they were doing nothing up until Dante joined? His life was more of luxury than Dante though. He was adopted by a wealthy family and had down time to focus on learning to hack. He's more of a tactician.

Vergil is more refined than Dante still because he's devoted most of his life fighting the demons. Dante just drifted and came fought to stay alive.

 

[Innsmouth]

Tbf, oVergil wasn't exactly depicted as a demon hunter, even though he slayed some demons himself.

Really? I thought he was demon-hunter, but not the one who does it for money, unlike Dante.

 

[Foxtrot94]

DmC is basically Dante:Year One.

Ha! I like that comparison.

@Innsmouth does he go after demons? Nope. He just killed the Hell Vanguard because it failed at killing Dante and Vergil is not kind towards subordinates who fail; he killed Beowulf cause he attacked first; he killed those Abyss in his prologue for the same reason, and because they were in his way to the tower entrance.

 

[Viper]

Ha! I like that comparison.

@Innsmouth does he go after demons? Nope. He just killed the Hell Vanguard because it failed at killing Dante and Vergil is not kind towards subordinates who fail; he killed Beowulf cause he attacked first; he killed those Abyss in his prologue for the same reason, and because they were in his way to the tower entrance.

In the manga he says that he killed demons with his own hands countless times (it was a conversation with Arkham on nature of lesser demons, why they seem infinite). As son of Sparda, and one moving in shady places, he would have attracted attention of many demons in search of power, so he most likely had plenty to kill even without being hired by people.

I don't think Hell Vanguard is Vergil's subordinate, Vergil is a guest in that tower just like Dante is. It was most likely planning to attack, observing it's opponent, but Vergil did not show obvious interest until it was his moment to strike.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

Pretty much disagree. While appearance pretty much spot on (Aside that nobody wears clothes like nVergil to parties).

So nobody wears a nice looking coat to a party?

 

[Viper]

So nobody wears a nice looking coat to a party?

Well... not so much in this century, unless it's a thematic party.

 

[Innsmouth]

Ha! I like that comparison.

@Innsmouth does he go after demons? Nope. He just killed the Hell Vanguard because it failed at killing Dante and Vergil is not kind towards subordinates who fail; he killed Beowulf cause he attacked first; he killed those Abyss in his prologue for the same reason, and because they were in his way to the tower entrance.

Well he did hated Mundus so I assume he clashed with his minions more than once

So nobody wears a nice looking coat to a party?

Not coat like this, unless it's Goth's party or something.