WHY do you want a DMC5 for?

[berto]

Pardon?

Don't pretend! We're on to you!

 

[Lionheart]

I'm not mad at the people who created DmC, I'm mad at the people who decided to discontinue DMC. Like I said, I'm glad DmC is there for you. I'm just ****ed that they decided to throw away the old series without ending it, in favor of DmC. And like I said, games don't have to go with the times in the sense you're saying. DMC3 didn't. That was an intentional move, too.

I probably wouldn't have if DMC4 didn't have such bad results in how it was made, rushed, and presented. If DMC4 was better at being a DMC game then yeah, I'd be fine with DMC5 and I would've been angry with the reboot right now. Come to think of it; if DMC4 was good, then the reboot wouldn't be here.

DMC4 is not as bad a game as you're making it out to be. Just because you don't like it that much doesn't mean it's a terrible game. Look at how it sold, look at what kind of grades the game got. Yes, it had backtracking and an arguably corny story. That was the whole idea. I'm not going to explain it twice.

Nither do I, but only if those anime games are actually done right and are natural. case in point; No More Heroes. It did a great job in having that anime feel to it and had an interesting set of characters and situations come up. And it was funny unlike DMC4 is when they try to be funny. I have no problem with mystery, but DMC lacks the actual skill to have them, what with Nero's origin being explained in an art book instead of an actual game.

''What's done right'' is your opinion. Who says DMC4 has to be some kind of incredible piece of art? It was never intended to have interesting, deep characters. Just like Bayonetta isn't supposed to be an incredibly deep character. Not all people are looking for the same things in video games. Sorry to break it to you like that. DMC4 wasn't even trying to be funny. It was just trying to be ridiculous in its absurdity, like Bayonetta sometimes was. You don't see me going ''Enzo wasn't funny in Bayonetta!'', do you? Of course not, since he was supposed to be this parody type of thing. And parodies don't always have to be laugh out loud funny. Usually they're cringeworthy, as intended.

If you like DmC in that it's different from DMC, great. But that doesn't mean everyone's looking for gameplay change with every sequel. You do. I don't. And that's fine, but when you take one group of people over the other (like Capcom has done), well, I don't see the point in that. Especially when the game doesn't make more money than the last, and isn't loved by more people than the last was.

That's irrelevant as playing as a spaceship and playing as a character aren't the same thing.

That's my point. If every DmC has different gameplay, that's not the same thing. I know flying a spaceship is a very odd example, but if you keep trying to revolutionize the gameplay, you might eventually end up with a totally different style of game. If they expanded upon the platforming in DmC, it would eventually turn into a platformer, meaning it wouldn't be Devil May Cry anymore.

Anyway, I'm just glad we agree there needs to be one more DMC, to conclude the series with a bang. And yeah, after all this time, I would be stoked if the new DMC actually explained where Nero came from, or what happens to Dante, and so on. A bit more depth and maybe a bit more like DMC1. Doesn't have to be so damn deep, though. Just make sure the gameplay (mainly the combos) is as good or better than that of DMC4, and that would be great.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

DMC4 is not as bad a game as you're making it out to be. Just because you don't like it that much doesn't mean it's a terrible game. Look at how it sold, look at what kind of grades the game got. Yes, it had backtracking and an arguably corny story. That was the whole idea. I'm not going to explain it twice.

I've said this many times now, sometimes sales don't mean anything. I understand that not everyone thinks that DMC4 is terrible, but what about half the fanbase preferring DMC3 over 4? There were MANY reasons Capcom made the reboot besides teh MONAAAY!!

''What's done right'' is your opinion. Who says DMC4 has to be some kind of incredible piece of art? It was never intended to have interesting, deep characters. Just like Bayonetta isn't supposed to be an incredibly deep character. Not all people are looking for the same things in video games. Sorry to break it to you like that. DMC4 wasn't even trying to be funny. It was just trying to be ridiculous in its absurdity, like Bayonetta sometimes was. You don't see me going ''Enzo wasn't funny in Bayonetta!'', do you? Of course not, since he was supposed to be this parody type of thing. And parodies don't always have to be laugh out loud funny. Usually they're cringeworthy, as intended.

Oh, I thought that was one of the reasons why people miss the originals cuz of the comedy. Fine, tell me what do you miss about the originals. No "I still have them" BS, just tell me.

If you like DmC in that it's different from DMC, great. But that doesn't mean everyone's looking for gameplay change with every sequel. You do. I don't. And that's fine, but when you take one group of people over the other (like Capcom has done), well, I don't see the point in that. Especially when the game doesn't make more money than the last, and isn't loved by more people than the last was.

I'm sorry but ARE YOU CRAZY?!

No it isn't fine! If Capcom was making a DMC5 right now and if Dante still has the same moves and same animations, I wouldn't buy it and call Capcom out on it, and you would probably do the same. Don't believe me, take a look at these games.

Those two games had a lot of bashing for being all copy and paste. As you see, they may add more visuals for the sequel, he didn't have any new moves and the gameplay just felt like copy and paste, same as what happened with DMC4, Dante felt the same like DMC3 Dante.

If Capcom decides to do a DMC5, they need to add in a few new mind blowing features to make the game have the "feel" as a sequel, just like Capcom did with DMC3 by first introducing the style systems, cuz, like I said again, in today's gaming world, people expect a lot from sequels, this ain't the 90s and this ain't the Street Fighter era anymore. Sure balancing helps, but not completely. I don't want a DMC5 be like Call of Duty.

 

[SpawnShooter]

Those two games had a lot of bashing for being all copy and paste. As you see, they may add more visuals for the sequel, he didn't have any new moves and the gameplay just felt like copy and paste, same as what happened with DMC4, Dante felt the same like DMC3 Dante.

This is actually a very, very good example.

They may seem copy/paste but they are very different, well Raging Blast 2 added a lot. Did you forget about the follow up system? that added so much to the mechanics and by extension raging soul. That coupled with the Cancel system from RB1 actually made the characters unique beyond Signature moves. I know a few players that play both RB1 and 2 competitively and from the little exchanges I've had with them the two games have to be approached and played in a different manner simply because of the small yet important changes and improvements that were added and the exact same thing can be said about DMC3+4s mechanics.

Man, RB was fun. Just a shame about how broken it was, with some small improvements it could have been a very solid, unique fighter but I digress.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

This is actually a very, very good example.

They may seem copy/paste but they are very different, well Raging Blast 2 added a lot. Did you forget about the follow up system? that added so much to the mechanics and by extension raging soul. That coupled with the Cancel system from RB1 actually made the characters unique beyond Signature moves. I know a few players that play both RB1 and 2 competitively and from the little exchanges I've had with them the two games have to be approached and played in a different manner simply because of the small yet important changes and improvements that were added and the exact same thing can be said about DMC3+4s mechanics.

Man, RB was fun. Just a shame about how broken it was, with some small improvements it could have been a very solid, unique fighter but I digress.

*sigh* Yeah they were fun at the time, but now looking back at them, they really weren't that different from each other and they weren't better than BT3 besides the graphics. Sure RB2 had the follow up system(and I liked it cuz it had depth), but they could've took more notes from the old BT games to make it a worthy successor, but too bad, now they had to screw up by listening to the fans by doing 'something new' by making Ultimate Tenkaichi (I liked it cuz it was a breath of fresh air), and the DBZ Kinect(UGH!). I don't think BT3's the best, I think that Budokai 3 and BT2 are. I hope for a BT4 though.

Anyway, enough about them, I'm just glad you see my point and not coming up like a douche like some people here are. That's the reason why I'm scared for a DMC5 to happen cuz I'm sure everybody know how Capcom is.

 

[SpawnShooter]

*sigh* Yeah they were fun at the time, but now looking back at them, they really weren't that different from each other and they weren't better than BT3 besides the graphics. Sure RB2 had the follow up system(and I liked it cuz it had depth), but they could've took more notes from the old BT games to make it a worthy successor, but too bad, now they had to screw up by listening to the fans by doing 'something new' by making Ultimate Tenkaichi (I liked it cuz it was a breath of fresh air), and the DBZ Kinect(UGH!). I don't think BT3's the best, I think that Budokai 3 and BT2 are. I hope for a BT4 though.

Anyway, enough about them, I'm just glad you see my point and not coming up like a douche like some people here are. That's the reason why I'm scared for a DMC5 to happen cuz I'm sure everybody know how Capcom is.

I'm sorry sir but I must disagree, like I said the follow up system change things up so much and I personally thought it took a lot of tips from BT, it was the difference between gameplay like this in Raging Blast 1

and this in Raging Blast 2

But I also hope for a BT4, I've grown tired of the modern ones too and since RB although it's nice to see the Tenkaichi "style" continued, I think there were too many problems with the games that annoyed me.

Lol at DBZ Kinect!

 

[GF9000000Returns]

I'm sorry sir but I must disagree, like I said the follow up system change things up so much it was the difference between gameplay like this in Raging Blast 1

and this in Raging Blast 2

Those are nice, but I meant by "not being different" from a casual standpoint.

But I also hope for a BT4, I've grown tired of the modern ones too and since RB although it's nice to see the Tenkaichi "style" continued, I think there were too many problems with the games that annoyed me.

Same here.

Lol at DBZ Kinect!

AKA "Hurricane Kinect" cuz it made almost all of the games dead. That's something that old fans should look at, sure DmC may have dumbed down for the casuals, but it didn't go that for by making a DMC Kinect, at least DmC kept its original touch.

 

[SpawnShooter]

Those are nice, but I meant by "not being different" from a casual standpoint.

Ah I get you, and I suppose I agree.

I'm enjoying this nostalgic discussion but don't wish to derail the thread, may I suggest we continue here?
http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...vs-raging-blast-discussion.15475/#post-471059

 

[GF9000000Returns]

Ah I get you, and I suppose I agree.

I'm enjoying this nostalgic discussion but don't wish to derail the thread, may I suggest we continue here?
http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...vs-raging-blast-discussion.15475/#post-471059

Nah we're not really, I'm just proving a point as to why I think Capcom didn't do a DMC5 in the first place.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Also, I keep thinking about Mc'D's because DMC decided to play scrabble and now all I read is MCD.
I'm hungry.
BYE!

Don't eat that ! That thing its KILLING YOU ! you don't know ! its made by undercover DEMONS to brainwash and then lobotomize you with...... AWFUL DUBSTEP !!

So again, why do yall want Capcom to make a DMC5 after or instead DmC?

But in all seriousness its for many reasons..

1) Just to see what left of the impossible DMC2's ending (Human curiosity)
2) I want to see the Original DMC1 Dante one last time on this/that gen (Nostalgia)
3) I love Duality
4) I want to see patty in the game she's like the only Moe character i like (fanboyness)

If not anything i just for Epic LULZ !! i mean what's more bizarre than a company like Crapcom cancelling out a profitable Reboot ??

 

[Lionheart]

I've said this many times now, sometimes sales don't mean anything. I understand that not everyone thinks that DMC4 is terrible, but what about half the fanbase preferring DMC3 over 4? There were MANY reasons Capcom made the reboot besides teh MONAAAY!!

Companies don't work that way. Most care about money - especially Capcom. DMC4 made more money than DMC3. It was a decent game, and Capcom sure as hell doesn't care that much about its fanbase, that much had been clear for quite a while. And saying DMC had unfixable plotholes is just bull. I can even rectify those plotholes, so don't tell me Capcom can't. What other reasons were there for creating the reboot? To improve the gameplay?
Trol... lol... wait for it...


LOOOOL

Oh, I thought that was one of the reasons why people miss the originals cuz of the comedy. Fine, tell me what do you miss about the originals. No "I still have them" BS, just tell me.

Well, I sure as hell don't miss them because they were funny. I don't think I ever thought they were. They just had good gameplay, an awesome atmosphere (especially DMC1, probably), cool characters (not deep ones), a great soundtrack and so on and so forth. I grade games based on the full package, not based on what stands out most.


I'm sorry but ARE YOU CRAZY?!

No it isn't fine! If Capcom was making a DMC5 right now and if Dante still has the same moves and same animations, I wouldn't buy it and call Capcom out on it, and you would probably do the same. Don't believe me, take a look at these games.

No, I think if it were something like DMC4 is to DMC3, I'd be fine with it. Dante didn't have the same moveset in DMC4 as in DMC3. He had different weapons, you could switch styles and weapons while fighting, you could create your own combos. It was like an RPG, in a way. And that's awesome. Sure, if the gameplay were exactly the same with every sequel, with the same characters etc, that would be boring. But DMC4 simply isn't like that, just like DmC isn't. I mean, DmC has gameplay that's more similar to DMC4's than DMC4's gameplay was to DMC3. Or would you like to 'defend' it (as Chancey likes to call it), saying demon pull is something new? Or that Devil Trigger is not very similar to Quicksilver? So DmC added platforming. Wow. Innovation to the max, right? -_-

Those two games had a lot of bashing for being all copy and paste. As you see, they may add more visuals for the sequel, he didn't have any new moves and the gameplay just felt like copy and paste, same as what happened with DMC4, Dante felt the same like DMC3 Dante.

Yeah, I didn't like Raging Blast 2 as much as the first, but I believe it had new characters, and along with those new characters came new moves. And it had a different campaign, I guess. I thought the graphics change was a weird choice, as the first looked way better. That game wasn't great, but then, it wasn't that bad either. Just because it doesn't change many things doesn't mean it sucks. And I don't get where you're coming from now. You said to SpawnShooter that you'd liked RB to have added some old gameplay features from older DBZ games. How is that not copy - paste? How is that innovative or new?

If Capcom decides to do a DMC5, they need to add in a few new mind blowing features to make the game have the "feel" as a sequel, just like Capcom did with DMC3 by first introducing the style systems, cuz, like I said again, in today's gaming world, people expect a lot from sequels, this ain't the 90s and this ain't the Street Fighter era anymore. Sure balancing helps, but not completely. I don't want a DMC5 be like Call of Duty.

It would be nice if they added something interesting, but you can't expect them to redo everything. When I look at DMC2 or DMC3, I don't get depressed 'because he still has a lot of the same moves/same movesets as in DMC1'. I'm not saying I'd be fine with carbon copies of previous gameplay, but sometimes there just aren't any mind-blowing features to add. Eventually, we'll get bullcrap like ''Dante can now use demon pull to grab the moon'''. Or simply that he can grab cars and throw them at enemies, but then, that wouldn't be gameplay innovation. It's just the demon pull/angel grab again.

I doubt Dragon Ball RB2 didn't change anything, and I now see the posts between you and SpawnShooter. There's always something new, and DMC4 was no different in that respect. And now I'm done talking to you, because I won't be called a douche in a post directed at someone else. Your opinion is not the right one, just like Chancey's isn't, and just like mine isn't. I swear, It's the same thing all over again.

 

[Marionette Cherry]

I don't know why people put DmC's platforming on a pedestal

I am just going to copy and paste what I said on Capcom Unity about what I think of the platforming

I didn't really see the platforming as platforming.

There was no timed jumping, no wondering how far you need to jump, all that jazz.

Your Glide move pretty much guaranteed you were going to reach a platform that seems pretty far anyway. And the whip stuff? Not all that challenging just hold in the correct shoulder button for the appropriate 'swinging' section and let it do the work for you.

When people say the level design is good. It's really not. They just mean your surroundings look pretty and I can dig that.

If you think the platforming is good then I'm sorry to say you're wrong. Mega man, Castlevania, Bionic Commando, Sonic the hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are superior platformers when compared to DmC.

It's not even up for debate.

Even saying it's better than Original Devil May Cry's platforming is kinda silly. Because that game didn't have a heavy emphasis on platforming, it was trying to be a hack 'n' slash game, not a platformer.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Not quoting people I'm directing this one statement to DragonMaster.

I see your saying you want to try something new in each DMC game...ignoring that DMC2 is DMC1 with acrobatics and some extra moves and ability to change guns on the fly and DMC3 piggybacks off of DMC2...also ignores Nero as another character who plays drastically different from Dante and is completely NEW and different from anything in DMC before.

Nero does more NEW things for DMC than DmC did.

What did DmC do?

Demon Whip? Carbon copy of Nero's Devil Bringer

Angel Whip? A slower method to teleporting or getting closer

Angel Glide? A slower Sky Star

Eryx? Ifrit with less moves and slower

Angel Evade? Trickster Dash

Devil Trigger? A really bad quicksilver

Revenant? Its practically the Shot Gun (with less moves) with Nero's Blue Rose charge shot effect.

Kablooey? Yay Lucifer in gun form so it has less stylish tricks and methods to impale foes with its detonating spikes.

DmC Rebellion? Takes away some of its moves and gives them to other weapons and gives it one of Nero's moves

Anything NEW DmC does is a bad thing.

Color-coded enemies

Demon Evade breaks the game and even when Capcom nerfs it, its still pretty broken

Platforming?

What else is there?

The Angel and Demon stances..its practically taken from Heavenly Sword. NT was too lazy and uncreative to come up with a new creative battle system that they just reused one from their past game to make it work. At least with Kamiya and his Bayonetta he was able to come up with an unique and new battle system for Bayonetta and not latch onto his past works.

DmC takes away so much things and adds nothing new and just reuses old ideas from other games.

Well there is one thing.........then I forgot.

 

[berto]

Nero does more NEW things for DMC than DmC did.

In all fairness there is more than that.

What did DmC do?

Demon Whip? Carbon copy of Nero's Devil Bringer

Yep.

Angel Whip? A slower method to teleporting or getting closer

But it is nice to have them both in a single character. Though not new it was the natural next step in that mechanic, it was going to happen even if it was DMC and not DmC game.

Angel Glide? A slower Sky Star

And not as cool looking.

Eryx? Ifrit with less moves and slower

That and there is practicably nothing to do with them in the air. I'd like some more air mechanics for DA's too.

Devil Trigger? A really bad quicksilver

You can't really call it quicksilver, ether. The whole thing is rather cheap.

Revenant? Its practically the Shot Gun (with less moves) with Nero's Blue Rose charge shot effect.

It is a shot gun. It just has a fancy design and fun name. In all honesty, it's all the guns that took a hit, not just the shot gun.

Kablooey? Yay Lucifer in gun form so it has less stylish tricks and methods to impale foes with its detonating spikes.

Yeah, but the trigger is better than the original.

Anything NEW DmC does is a bad thing.

Just about.

Platforming?

It's flat. There is really very little platforming, most of it is hitting the right button at the right time more than actual platforming .

What else is there?

The large number of gameplay interruptions do to unsinkable cutscenes through out the game, but specially annoying in the last level where if you are about to do some good damage the game thinks it's more important to show you meaningless plot breaks that nether advance the story, characters, or the experience. Not to mention sequences where Dante can't do anything but walk and you have to listen to meaningless drivel over and over and over again even if you don't want to making those levels more of a chores than good time.

The Angel and Demon stances..its practically taken from Heavenly Sword. NT was too lazy and uncreative to come up with a new creative battle system that they just reused one from their past game to make it work. At least with Kamiya and his Bayonetta he was able to come up with an unique and new battle system for Bayonetta and not latch onto his past works.

I don't know if laziness is the right word for it. I think it was more of a need to have something reminiscent of their previous work, an homage to their first game.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Not quoting people I'm directing this one statement to DragonMaster.

I see your saying you want to try something new in each DMC game...ignoring that DMC2 is DMC1 with acrobatics and some extra moves and ability to change guns on the fly and DMC3 piggybacks off of DMC2...also ignores Nero as another character who plays drastically different from Dante and is completely NEW and different from anything in DMC before.

Nero was just a downgraded version of DMC3 Dante with not as much moves and a grappling mechanic. Yeah, he was new, but he wasn't as good. DMC3 actually didn't pggyback off DMC2, but use acrobatic mechanics of DMC2, and made its own style of gameplay from DMC1 but improved it.

Nero does more NEW things for DMC than DmC did.

Oh wow. An arm that grabs people. Impressive. -_-

What did DmC do?

It took emphasis on environment kills along with projecting actual distance and timing into its attacks, along with properly familiarizing yourself with how the weapons will set off or ignite demons into the air.

It improved on environment by having vibrant locations of fantasy mixed with modern and even European Architectural locations mixed with actual places like Kony island pier and graffiti that are in actual places.

It tried to make a story important. Though I'll admit not the best, but still a damn good story. But that's my opinion, and don't bust that "Well let me explain why DmC isn't a good story" because if I can't complain about why DMC3 and DMC4 had a terrible story without being told that I'm wrong, then that just seems hypocritical.

Demon Whip? Carbon copy of Nero's Devil Bringer

Nero's Devil Bringer?

Angel Whip? A slower method to teleporting or getting closer
So just because Nero uses it you think he created it? okay.

Angel Glide? A slower Sky Star
True. And?

Eryx? Ifrit with less moves and slower
Better then those tinfoil gloves and boots you call Gilgamesh.

Angel Evade? Trickster Dash
No. Angel Evade is way different from Trickster dash. Trickster dash is a haze, while Angel evade is a mist.

Devil Trigger? A really bad quicksilver
Quicksilver doesn't launch enemies in the air, nor does it have much of a story purpose except "Hey look! You can stop time! Now you can spam on your enemy and say your a DMC3 master!"

Revenant? Its practically the Shot Gun (with less moves) with Nero's Blue Rose charge shot effect.
Since when is Nero's double barrel revolver a shotgun? Last time I checked Nero's shots don't explode.

Kablooey? Yay Lucifer in gun form so it has less stylish tricks and methods to impale foes with its detonating spikes.
I don't see much people complaining considering people do use it.

DmC Rebellion? Takes away some of its moves and gives them to other weapons and gives it one of Nero's moves

Roulette spin is actually better with new Dante so I'm not complaining.

Anything NEW DmC does is a bad thing.

Says who? You? Last time I checked, you weren't running Capcom to say that like it's fact.

Color-coded enemies

Okay, I'll give you that.

Demon Evade breaks the game and even when Capcom nerfs it, its still pretty broken
Who says you HAVE to use it? Just like I don't have use the rising dragon attack on DMC3 to own all my enemies with literally not problem.

Platforming?
Platforming actually looks cooler and feels better to me then moving blocks and Nerfed floors.

What else is there?

Open your eyes, maybe you'd see.

The Angel and Demon stances..its practically taken from Heavenly Sword. NT was too lazy and uncreative to come up with a new creative battle system that they just reused one from their past game to make it work. At least with Kamiya and his Bayonetta he was able to come up with an unique and new battle system for Bayonetta and not latch onto his past works.

You mean Bayonetta? The game Kamiya said he played DMC4 in order to "get inspiration" to make? Yeah, how creative. -_-

And of course NT can use HS as a reference. It's their actual game Y'know.

DmC takes away so much things and adds nothing new and just reuses old ideas from other games.

Just as DMC4 did.

Well there is one thing.........then I forgot.

No, you proved how wrong you are.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Nero was just a downgraded version of DMC3 Dante with not as much moves and a grappling mechanic. Yeah, he was new, but he wasn't as good. DMC3 actually didn't pggyback off DMC2, but use acrobatic mechanics of DMC2, and made its own style of gameplay from DMC1 but improved it.

I kinda agree with you here, Nero is a casualized version of Dante with less depthness in his gameplay. But you're contradicting yourself, first you've stated that you don't liked old DMC series except by the first one because it was all a "rehash with the same 3-sword-slash combo". Now you're saying that DMC3 is a complete reworked game from DMC2. I mean, it looks like you change your opinion for what is more comfortable to make a point with other people arguments. This is no different from "trolling", and takes the discussion to nowhere.

It took emphasis on environment kills along with projecting actual distance and timing into its attacks, along with properly familiarizing yourself with how the weapons will set off or ignite demons into the air.

It improved on environment by having vibrant locations of fantasy mixed with modern and even European Architectural locations mixed with actual places like Kony island pier and graffiti that are in actual places.

It tried to make a story important. Though I'll admit not the best, but still a damn good story. But that's my opinion, and don't bust that "Well let me explain why DmC isn't a good story" because if I can't complain about why DMC3 and DMC4 had a terrible story without being told that I'm wrong, then that just seems hypocritical

Environment kills in a game focused on combat? Doesn't look the best move to do, mainly because this environment kills works even on the most "difficulty" modes of DmC. DmC tried to be two or even three "types" of games at the same time and it's one of the causes that it isn't a game with some depth in none of them.

You can complain about DMC3 and DMC4 and you actually do it a lot here on this forum. But don't expect to people just be passive about what they think is wrong in your statements, if you're not in the mood to discuss you can just watch the thread or say what you've said in this comment: that you do not want to discuss some specific point, but in the other hand it's better to avoid criticism if you really doesn't want a discussion going on. But don't try to make it look like people doesn't allow you to criticize the original series story because it is a lie.

Nero's Devil Bringer?

>2D fighting game
>3D hack'n'slash game
>making a comparison of gimmicks and design instead of mechanics which is the core of StylishNero arguments

True. And?

The core of his argument is that DmC add nothing new and dumbed down mechanics that already existed, and it was an example. He will need to draw it to you? Or you'll continue pretending that it makes no sense?

Who says you HAVE to use it? Just like I don't have use the rising dragon attack on DMC3 to own all my enemies with literally not problem.

Rising dragon has a very slow startup to pay the damage that it does, go try to use it on Arkham or Beowulf to see what will happen. It's not even near to be overpowered as Demon Evade or Devil Trigger are on DmC.

You mean Bayonetta? The game Kamiya said he played DMC4 in order to "get inspiration" to make? Yeah, how creative. -_-

Wow, what an argument. It still has better mechanics than DmC and are nearly on par with DMC4, which is a great accomplishment for the first game of a franchise.

Just as DMC4 did.

DMC4 just added new mechanics and possibilities as SpawnShooter already explained in detail here in this thread. It not discarded anything that already existed in the series.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I kinda agree with you here, Nero is a casualized version of Dante with less depthness in his gameplay. But you're contradicting yourself, first you've stated that you don't liked old DMC series except by the first one because it was all a "rehash with the same 3-sword-slash combo". Now you're saying that DMC3 is a complete reworked game from DMC2. I mean, it looks like you change your opinion for what is more comfortable to make a point with other people arguments. This is no different from "trolling", and takes the discussion to nowhere.

You obviously didn't read my post right. I said that I didn't like how DMC4 has the same moves as DMC3 because DMC4 piggybacks off it. But DMC3 was different with its gameplay from DMC1 while getting elements from DMC2. And secondly, that so ignorant to accuse me of trolling just because I won't praise DMC3 or DMC4.

Environment kills in a game focused on combat? Doesn't look the best move to do, mainly because this environment kills works even on the most "difficulty" modes of DmC. DmC tried to be two or even three "types" of games at the same time and it's one of the causes that it isn't a game with some depth in none of them.

Again, environments are a lot more useful and interesting. But that doesn't mean they need to be used. I just enjoy them because they're part of gameplay and can be utilized.

You can complain about DMC3 and DMC4 and you actually do it a lot here on this forum. But don't expect to people just be passive about what they think is wrong in your statements, if you're not in the mood to discuss you can just watch the thread or say what you've said in this comment: that you do not want to discuss some specific point, but in the other hand it's better to avoid criticism if you really doesn't want a discussion going on. But don't try to make it look like people doesn't allow you to criticize the original series story because it is a lie.

So why do you get on my balls when a talk about DMC4 and DMC3? Why can't you ignore me and move on? Plus, that can go the same for you since you constantly criticize DmC and your doing it to me right now. No one likes a hypocrite.

>2D fighting game
>3D hack'n'slash game
>making a comparison of gimmicks and design instead of mechanics which is the core of StylishNero arguments

So you gonna lie to me and say that Nero's devil bringer wasn't some sort of nod to Scorpion regardless of pretty graphics? Gee I didn't know that was how people saw it -_-


The core of his argument is that DmC add nothing new and dumbed down mechanics that already existed, and it was an example. He will need to draw it to you? Or you'll continue pretending that it makes no sense?

So just because he says it, I have to take it as fact? Because I've already proven how he's mistaken, so I don't see why I should have to repeat myself to you.



Rising dragon has a very slow startup to pay the damage that it does, go try to use it on Arkham or Beowulf to see what will happen. It's not even near to be overpowered as Demon Evade or Devil Trigger are on DmC.

Okay. I did. It's the same thing. It's all about timing and precision. What's your point?


Wow, what an argument. It still has better mechanics than DmC and are nearly on par with DMC4, which is a great accomplishment for the first game of a franchise.

In your opinion. Not true fact.


DMC4 just added new mechanics and possibilities as SpawnShooter already explained in detail here in this thread. It not discarded anything that already existed in the series.

Take it as you see it, but I think DMC4 limited itself to try and please a fanbase.

But either way, I can't praise DMC4 just because others do. I don't have to like a sub par game. Just like I don't force you to like DmC. Learn to respect opinions, boy. It'll help you in the long run.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Let me clarify things to you, and i believe that's the main problem why we keep "arguing" in a loop:

Opinions are what the human senses and intellect can grasp from reality, or can be created just by someone's imagination. Debating or discussing is the process that we put what we grasp from reality or imagine into words for other people to understand. But the main point of a dicussion or a debate is to find reality, obviously some subjects are more difficult to understand or put into words than others and we cannot make good connections between what we can graps or imagine and reality itself, and we say that these kind of things are "subjective", because people can't agree and can't prove what is the better way to define or analyse something.

And during the time i was discussing with you on some topics i was realizing that you rely strongly on your opinions (which actually is not a bad thing by itself, but let me explain) and ends up ignoring someone who is showing to you the reality by a logical and objective way (i.e. when talking about games mechanics), if we can put in that words. That's why i saiyed that your behaviour can be no different from someone who's "trolling", not because you don't praise DMC3 or 4. And i need you to understand this in order so we can make better debates on this forum, i'm not saying you should agree with me or that i'm always right. I'm saiyng that you need to find inconsistences on what people are saying, and not just justify your post by saying "BUT DAT IS MAH OPINION AND I WILL KEEP IT BECAUSE FUK Y0U", if we keep this philosophy we will be forever rounding in circles without finding the reality we want when we discuss things. When i have no faith on what i'm saying i make it clear saying to people and agree with them if they come up with a more solid point of view, but even knowing that my opinion is not solid at all i want to express myself and what is my personal experience and insights on that subject and i understand that all human beings feel this, but even then there's a need to accept people who criticize your opinion in a logical and reasonable way, this is what a discussion is all about and this is what is lacking on our debates.
You need to understand that debating is not the same as disrespecting someone's opinions and beliefs, at least it's true for most of the things in life.

Just for the sake of an example, i will quote and answer something that you asked in that post:

So just because he says it, I have to take it as fact? Because I've already proven how he's mistaken, so I don't see why I should have to repeat myself to you.

Here you can't see the connection he made with the example and the core of his argument, and you even say that you "proved that he's wrong", so let's take a quick look at all this scenario:

He said that DMC4 added more than DmC to the franchise, and he was talking mainly about the mechanics of the game. The game itself if i can put this way, and it gets more clear as he were putting the examples to the table, so let's see this:

Demon Whip? Carbon copy of Nero's Devil Bringer
Nero's Devil Bringer?

See this? He was saying that this gimmick was already introduced into the franchise, which support his core argument that DmC do not introduced nothing new to the franchise and it already existed; not that Nero was the first character in the world who can pull things. And to be honest there was a move with Kalina Ann using the Gunslinger in DMC3 that already pulled monsters, but it's much more accessible with Nero than with DMC3 Dante, so he's not quite right in this example too but it still support his main argument.

One more:

Eryx? Ifrit with less moves and slower
Better then those tinfoil gloves and boots you call Gilgamesh.

Look at it here: he's giving a reasonable reason to why Eryx is a dumbed down Ifrit, and more importantly something that already existed or is very similar to other things that already existed in the franchise. And you're simple saying it's "better" than Gilgamesh. Again you rely on your opinion as it was your personal truth and ignores the main point of the other arguer.

Revenant? Its practically the Shot Gun (with less moves) with Nero's Blue Rose charge shot effect.
Since when is Nero's double barrel revolver a shotgun? Last time I checked Nero's shots don't explode.

Here you mistook animation and design with mechanics too in your first statement. And Blue Rose charged shots explodes and send the enemy flying too: http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Charged_Shot, see the description of the level 3 shots for Nero:

Level 3
Red
The third level now features dual explosions, wherein the bullet explodes after having penetrated the enemy, causing internal damage.

Is this kind of thing that makes discussions turn into a mess and eventually into a war were people get ****ed so easy with each other because they're exhausted of debating, there's a moment when exists no room for reason or good manners when people became ****ed.
I know that i commit that kind of errors and provoke people too, but i try to be always beware of my limits and i simple do that when i'm ****ed off myself with the other arguer. And if you're doing all this on purpose, i really don't know what to say for you.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Let me clarify things to you, and i believe that's the main problem why we keep "arguing" in a loop:

Opinions are what the human senses and intellect can grasp from reality, or can be created just by someone's imagination. Debating or discussing is the process that we put what we grasp from reality or imagine into words for other people to understand. But the main point of a dicussion or a debate is to find reality, obviously some subjects are more difficult to understand or put into words than others and we cannot make good connections between what we can graps or imagine and reality itself, and we say that these kind of things are "subjective", because people can't agree and can't prove what is the better way to define or analyse something.

And during the time i was discussing with you on some topics i was realizing that you rely strongly on your opinions (which actually is not a bad thing by itself, but let me explain) and ends up ignoring someone who is showing to you the reality by a logical and objective way (i.e. when talking about games mechanics), if we can put in that words. That's why i saiyed that your behaviour can be no different from someone who's "trolling", not because you don't praise DMC3 or 4. And i need you to understand this in order so we can make better debates on this forum, i'm not saying you should agree with me or that i'm always right. I'm saiyng that you need to find inconsistences on what people are saying, and not just justify your post by saying "BUT DAT IS MAH OPINION AND I WILL KEEP IT BECAUSE FUK Y0U", if we keep this philosophy we will be forever rounding in circles without finding the reality we want when we discuss things. When i have no faith on what i'm saying i make it clear saying to people and agree with them if they come up with a more solid point of view, but even knowing that my opinion is not solid at all i want to express myself and what is my personal experience and insights on that subject and i understand that all human beings feel this, but even then there's a need to accept people who criticize your opinion in a logical and reasonable way, this is what a discussion is all about and this is what is lacking on our debates.
You need to understand that debating is not the same as disrespecting someone's opinions and beliefs, at least it's true for most of the things in life.

Just for the sake of an example, i will quote and answer something that you asked in that post:



Here you can't see the connection he made with the example and the core of his argument, and you even say that you "proved that he's wrong", so let's take a quick look at all this scenario:

He said that DMC4 added more than DmC to the franchise, and he was talking mainly about the mechanics of the game. The game itself if i can put this way, and it gets more clear as he were putting the examples to the table, so let's see this:



See this? He was saying that this gimmick was already introduced into the franchise, which support his core argument that DmC do not introduced nothing new to the franchise and it already existed; not that Nero was the first character in the world who can pull things. And to be honest there was a move with Kalina Ann using the Gunslinger in DMC3 that already pulled monsters, but it's much more accessible with Nero than with DMC3 Dante, so he's not quite right in this example too but it still support his main argument.

One more:



Look at it here: he's giving a reasonable reason to why Eryx is a dumbed down Ifrit, and more importantly something that already existed or is very similar to other things that already existed in the franchise. And you're simple saying it's "better" than Gilgamesh. Again you rely on your opinion as it was your personal truth and ignores the main point of the other arguer.



Here you mistook animation and design with mechanics too in your first statement. And Blue Rose charged shots explodes and send the enemy flying too: http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Charged_Shot, see the description of the level 3 shots for Nero:




Is this kind of thing that makes discussions turn into a mess and eventually into a war were people get ****ed so easy with each other because they're exhausted of debating, there's a moment when exists no room for reason or good manners when people became ****ed.
I know that i commit that kind of errors and provoke people too, but i try to be always beware of my limits and i simple do that when i'm ****ed off myself with the other arguer. And if you're doing all this on purpose, i really don't know what to say for you.

Look dude, I understand.

You don't know how to take critisism and opinions. I get it. That's just something you need to work on. But constantly dragging this on with your little sassy fits aren't making you look better or me taking you seriously. Especially your past post of calling Dante "Donte" or Vergil "Vorgil". I mean seriously? You could have used "Vergin" at least.

But I can't take you as seriously if you result to such anctics.

I stop this discussion here. Once you learn to understand opinions, I will speak to you again.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Look dude, I understand.

You don't know how to take critisism and opinions. I get it. That's just something you need to work on. But constantly dragging this on with your little sassy fits aren't making you look better or me taking you seriously. Especially your past post of calling Dante "Donte" or Vergil "Vorgil". I mean seriously? You could have used "Vergin" at least.

But I can't take you as seriously if you result to such anctics.

I stop this discussion here. Once you learn to understand opinions, I will speak to you again.

This looks OK to me. I will take my time learning to deal with criticism and you should take yours dealing with reality.