Which Vergil you'd like to see: villain or hero? [SPOILERS]

[temp-dsn]

I think Dante jumped to conclusions. Who says Vergil wouldn't have been a good ruler? He did say that they would be nothing like Mundus. I mean, think about it. Kat probably wouldn't have minded being a subject to Vergil (or Dante).
....okay, maybe she would.
Man. Whatever. I'm siding with Vergil.

Also, I don't see Vergil as hero or villain. I think he's in between. Does bad things with good intentions. Or does good things with bad intentions. Depends on how you look at it.

Man, I fully agree with every word in this post!
For me, Dante is not just impulsive but he's the most stupid character in the new DmC. Even compared to some of the bosses. Yes, he's kind. But stupid.
Vergil IS the one who's smart enough to rule others with wisdom and who's fair/decent enough to rule with kindness and care. For real nephilims, people are just like little silly kittens. You love and care of them, you give them milk sometimes, but you punish them if they pee your shoes and you never-ever-ever let them jump out of the window from the 20th floor. Even if they see a tasty bird.
And all this "everyone are equal" stuff is nothing more then kittens' demand to let them hunt that bird.
Seriously, in the final battle I'd prefer to fight for Vergil. Beat Dante, force him to calm down and then explain him my reasons so easy, that this idiot would understand.

 

[Chancey289]

Man, I fully agree with every word in this post!
For me, Dante is not just impulsive but he's the most stupid character in the new DmC. Even compared to some of the bosses. Yes, he's kind. But stupid.
Vergil IS the one who's smart enough to rule others with wisdom and who's fair/decent enough to rule with kindness and care. For real nephilims, people are just like little silly kittens. You love and care of them, you give them milk sometimes, but you punish them if they pee your shoes and you never-ever-ever let them jump out of the window from the 20th floor. Even if they see a tasty bird.
And all this "everyone are equal" stuff is nothing more then kittens' demand to let them hunt that bird.
Seriously, in the final battle I'd prefer to fight for Vergil. Beat Dante, force him to calm down and then explain him my reasons so easy, that this idiot would understand.

Can't really agree on that. I'm siding with Dante because Vergil was just talking bullsh!t. Vergil always had this superiority complex and that doesn't sound like a good ruler if you ask me. Vergil is willing to sacrifice anyone for means to an end and looked at Kat as expendable despite her literally saving their lives multiple times. Sure Vergil is smart but he is an asshole. Dante's sword has been specifically named after Dante's own sense of justice. He fights against oppression.

Dante wasn't buying Vergil's bullsh!t. You don't say you're not going to be like Mundus and literally turn around and flat out say you're better than the people you want to rule. Vergil would not be a good leader. Vergil just wanted power and his actions throughout the game shows that's all he cares about. Vergil isn't a good person and he wouldn't make an ideal leader.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

DmC!vergil is the perfect example of a good intention twisted by growing apathy and desire to be in control. His intentions, protect humanity, was noble...but he became more and more detached from a sense of humanity as time went on that he came to decided he needed to protect like children; even from themselves. So yes, he was benevolent in his intentions, but we all know what the road to Hell gets paved with.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

Sure Vergil is smart but he is an asshole.

Teeheeheeheehee, you said asshole.
XD
I agree with your post, btw, but then I agree with everyone's posts. There's no right or wrong here, just different perspectives.

 

[temp-dsn]

Vergil isn't a good person and he wouldn't make an ideal leader.

Being a good person and being a good leader are different things. It's good when they both appear in the same human, but you're not necessary have to be always nice with people if you're a good leader.
You're right. Vergil is assh0le. But, first, he wasn't always been like that. He progressively becomes it during the game. And, second, there's only one thing he's asshole at: his relationship to Kat.
If you ask me, I don't understand this side of his behavior. And for me, all these cruel actions to Kat was completely out of character. I mean, he's kind, wants all the best for the mankind, he cares about people and loves his brother. It's noticeble, that under mask of rationality he's very sensitive and vulnerable character.
He's been protecting Kat for almost entire her life... but then - BANG! - Kat suddenly becomes expandable. Then everything seems came back to normal but - BANG! again - he doesn't give her a credit for saving the world from Mundus.
It looks like NT was developing Vergil as completely different character (the one who I'd like to see), and then Capcom told them to make him a villain again. I believe, many of you noticed that all that inhuman Vergil's lines look completely unnatural and out of place. Because if you just turn the sound off when Vergil says them it will look like they never were there. Nothing at all lead to them before and nothing at all follows them after. Except for the final battle, of course.

 

[Chancey289]

Being a good person and being a good leader are different things. It's good when they both appear in the same human, but you're not necessary have to be always nice with people if you're a good leader.
You're right. Vergil is assh0le. But, first, he wasn't always been like that. He progressively becomes it during the game. And, second, there's only one thing he's asshole at: his relationship to Kat.
If you ask me, I don't understand this side of his behavior. And for me, all these cruel actions to Kat was completely out of character. I mean, he's kind, wants all the best for the mankind, he cares about people and loves his brother. It's noticeble, that under mask of rationality he's very sensitive and vulnerable character.
He's been protecting Kat for almost entire her life... but then - BANG! - Kat suddenly becomes expandable. Then everything seems came back to normal but - BANG! again - he doesn't give her a credit for saving the world from Mundus.
It looks like NT was developing Vergil as completely different character (the one who I'd like to see), and then Capcom told them to make him a villain again. I believe, many of you noticed that all that inhuman Vergil's lines look completely unnatural and out of place. Because if you just turn the sound off when Vergil says them it will look like they never were there. Nothing at all lead to them before and nothing at all follows them after. Except for the final battle, of course.

Vergil sees people as means to an end when we're talking about Vergil being a good leader, I wouldn't side with the guy because he has this superiority complex. Vergil seriously thinks that just because he isn't human it makes him better than everyone else in the world. Vergil has big ambitions but he's rather petty and just selfish.

He's willing to throw rash assumptions around right away about humans because he views them as weak regardless just because of their humanity. He views them in a lesser light already so what makes you think Vergil will fulfill a promise such as treating people with respect if he's already shown on multiple occasions he only cares about himself and his plans more than anything. Vergil has always been like this. Him saying he wouldn't be like Mundus is total bullsh!t and I wouldn't buy it either. Vergil deserved to be taken down.

And the whole thing with Kat, Vergil used Kat all along again for his plan and felt confident in him and his brother's ability to take them down because Dante was the most vital part of his team. Kat was useful when Vergil needed her to be but, she's not as important as Dante which he absolutely needs to take down Mundus.

 

[Teimurazor]

Imo Vergil shouldn't be neither Hero, nor Villain. The way I see it DMC3 Vergil totally nailed it.
He didn't think about things being right or wrong. He just needed power, and went for it with all he got. Trusting enemies, betraying friends, none of it matered as long as he saw a chance to grab the power to himself

 

[temp-dsn]

Vergil seriously thinks that just because he isn't human it makes him better than everyone else in the world.

Yes, he thinks he's better than the others. And yes, because he's nephilim. But no, it's not the only reason that automatically makes him the best.
Besides being nephilim, he's very smart and fair. He can make difficult decisions without being affected by emotions. And he's capable of doing bad things that need to be done, even when he doesn't like it. If he was a human, these traits will already make him a worthy candidate to the world leadership. And since he's nephilim, there's no sense for anyone else to even try to compete with him.
Yes, he thinks he's better then the others. But, in fact, he really is. This is very unpleasant, but it's true. He knows that, and the only thing you may not like is that he doesn't deny it with false modesty. Being capable to admit and use your advantages doesn't make you selfish.
I'd really prefer to be under patronage of such a wise leader rather than some other childish, naive and impulsive guy who will drive us to chaos and anarchy, but, yes, who says nice things (nobody get who I'm talking about ).

But - yep - he's very complex character and your feelings about him depend on your point of view. I see him this way. You see him your way. And I fully agree, that it's not a pleasure to be in Kat's place. Sometimes he's real assh0le and villain. But sometimes he's the best person in the world and definitely is a hero.

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

I just dont want Vergil to be all lovey with Dante. I want to have his own goals and go about reaching them his own ways and even if said goal is the same as Dantes i dont want him to be at his side and whatnot. If NT wants to the full villian route then look no further than Sousuke Aizen as your inspiration (in attitude and personality not goals obviously).

 

[Chancey289]

Yes, he thinks he's better than the others. And yes, because he's nephilim. But no, it's not the only reason that automatically makes him the best.
Besides being nephilim, he's very smart and fair. He can make difficult decisions without being affected by emotions. And he's capable of doing bad things that need to be done, even when he doesn't like it. If he was a human, these traits will already make him a worthy candidate to the world leadership. And since he's nephilim, there's no sense for anyone else to even try to compete with him.
Yes, he thinks he's better then the others. But, in fact, he really is. This is very unpleasant, but it's true. He knows that, and the only thing you may not like is that he doesn't deny it with false modesty. Being capable to admit and use your advantages doesn't make you selfish.
I'd really prefer to be under patronage of such a wise leader rather than some other childish, naive and impulsive guy who will drive us to chaos and anarchy, but, yes, who says nice things (nobody get who I'm talking about ).

But - yep - he's very complex character and your feelings about him depend on your point of view. I see him this way. You see him your way. And I fully agree, that it's not a pleasure to be in Kat's place. Sometimes he's real assh0le and villain. But sometimes he's the best person in the world and definitely is a hero.

But Vergil is not fair nor is he really a hero. He only cares about his goals and he's willing to use anyone for means to an end. Why would you be so quick to side with a person who says he would never be like Mundus but clearly up to that point already showed he is selfish and only cares about gaining that throne. Vergil was talking total bullsh!t before that final fight.

Thing is, what does being a hybrid have to do with how he perceives emotions? Do you know why this franchise is titled Devil May Cry? It was explained in DMC 1 and still holds on to its meaning as a defining theme throughout every game.

Devils are allegedly known to not have emotions and are incapable of crying. This isn't true. No matter what you are in nature it doesn't make who you really are. Looking at DMC 1 Trish cried for Dante and she is a demon through and through. It also all comes back to Sparda who fell in love with a human and 1000 years before even he had got a date he defeated Mundus and his legion on his own accord because he has a sense of justice. It wasn't Eva who converted him to protect humans. Now he did see what humans are capable of and that's empathy and they aren't as weak as demons think they are. He feels they deserve a chance and also deserve to live. Boom. This mirrors exactly what Dante does in DmC. He's just like his father Sparda.

I think that's what they want to do with DmC. It's the most Dante centric storyline of the bunch and is still an ongoing origin story. Dante in the DmC version could become the Legendary Hero himself which is cool with me. I don't know why Dante always seems to just live in his father's shadow all the time in the previous games.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I think the biggest burn for Vergil at the end of DmC is that he is saved by a human, Kat, I think its just too much for his superiority complex, which is why he has to literally trick himself inside his own mind to come to the conclusion that he does in Vergil's Downfall.

 

[temp-dsn]

Chancey289,
Obviously, you like Dante and I like Vergil. And you're reasonable in your discourse.
But I have to disagree with one thing.

But Vergil is not fair nor is he really a hero. He only cares about his goals and he's willing to use anyone for means to an end.

He's doing what he believes is need to be done for the greatest good. Sometimes, to make world better, you need to do good things. But sometimes - bad ones. You pay attention only to his bad actions but for some reasons don't notice his other side.
Vergil isn't good nor bad person. He's beyond these labels.
He's nasty person. He speaks things that may hurt you withou hesitation. But he's usually right. And at the end of the day, he's the one who established the Order which eventually saved the wotld from Mundus. He's the one who rescued Kat, gave her the goal in her life and daised her as decent, kind and honorable person. He saved Dante from himself. And he's the one who wants to do the same thing with humanity.
Thorny and ugly cover, beautiful inside. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Zarmat]

I would like to have Dante and Vergil going against each other in the next game, having Vergil be seen as the main bad guy at the start, then find out there another force involved as well, I don't think I want Vergil to do a complete turn around in one game, but if the series continues have him try to redeem himself but still retain the same personality. All I hope that they don't try to cram to much into one game, I like a good story but not if it seems rushed.

 

[FrostBite]

For the entire playtime of the "Vergil's downfall" DLC I was hoping that at some point he'll calm down, come back to Dante, just talk to him, and they will overcome their controversy. They're twin brothers, after all!
And then they colud continue to work together to make the world better.
But nope, none of this happen.

Because we already know the ultimate outcome,this is the story of how vergil became the way he is in DMC 3 ( even how he got the hairstyle).So no surprise there.

But I would like to see them as a team

 

[temp-dsn]

FrostBite,
AFAIK DmC is franchise relaunch. So NT is free to do whatever they want. For instance, they rewrote the story of Dante's and Vergil's childhood. What I'm talking about! NT even made them nephilims instead of demons by making their mother an angel instead of human. And Sparda is still alive in DmC.
Devil May Cry and DmC are different universes. They share the same idea, but all the rest - including characters, design, setting, storyline etc. - is completely independent from each other.

 

[FrostBite]

FrostBite,
AFAIK DmC is franchise relaunch. So NT is free to do whatever they want. For instance, they rewrote the story of Dante's and Vergil's childhood. What I'm talking about! NT even made them nephilims instead of demons by making their mother an angel instead of human. And Sparda is still alive in DmC.
Devil May Cry and DmC are different universes. They share the same idea, but all the rest - including characters, design, setting, storyline etc. - is completely independent from each other.

Yeah,but the bulk of the matter supports what I'm saying,it might be a reboot but it still stays relatively close to what was already established,it's not like they rewrote the rules.

 

[temp-dsn]

Well, some of the rules they already have rewrote. At least the fact that Vergil was a good guy. Not for long, but he was.
The fact that Mundus is not "just bad" now, but he has his own reasons to be the one who he was. He's as nasty as before but has his reasonable POV now. And this POV at least deserves to be explained.
None of these is even possible to be in previous Devil May Cry.

 

[Chancey289]

Yeah,but the bulk of the matter supports what I'm saying,it might be a reboot but it still stays relatively close to what was already established,it's not like they rewrote the rules.

Well reboots tend to pay homage to their source material.

 

[FrostBite]

Well, some of the rules they already have rewrote. At least the fact that Vergil was a good guy. Not for long, but he was.

Again,in my original post I said that we already knew the ultimate outcome,so they can portray him however they want before that,i.e a good guy and how he shows sparks of lust for power and eventually turn into what he is in DMC 3.I don't see what point you're trying to make.

 

[nephlim god]

How do you no he will turn into wat he is in dmc ? its a compleately diffrent universe in all honesty. Preety much anything can happen to vergil. I hope they do him justice and make him kinda redeem himself