Where are taunts ?

[Stylish Nero]

I guess they simply didn't think it was important enough to implant into the game. Which I can understand.

......heh....I don't think Rising has taunts either.....but its always been in the past games and if Itsuno wanted to put taunting in the game even he sees it has value and considering he made DMC3 & DMC4 as well as Star Gladiator, Power Stone, and other well known games and clearly has much more experience than I put his word above that of NT who only made 3 sub-par games.

 

[ZeroLove]

......heh....I don't think Rising has taunts either.....but its always been in the past games and if Itsuno wanted to put taunting in the game even he sees it has value and considering he made DMC3 & DMC4 as well as Star Gladiator, Power Stone, and other well known games and clearly has much more experience than I put his word above that of NT who only made 3 sub-par games.

A game without taunts doesn't have less value compared to games with taunts. Taunts are nothing more then extra filling. It is unimportant and useless.

 

[Paexie]

If they were to integrate taunts they should tweak the style system so it goes down ranks as you are not attacking.

That's really all there is to it.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

If they were to integrate taunts they should tweak the style system so it goes down ranks as you are not attacking.

That's really all there is to it.

dmc4 is the first devil may cry game to keep the style at a consistent rank if a player isn't attacking

 

[Macabre]

THe backlash, by Capcom's own admission, was expected, and INTENDED from the 2010 teaser.

I'd love to see the documentation of that actually. In fact I wouldn't put it past Capcom; they were probably debating whether or not to fund the HD Collection's development and wanted to use the outrage to gauge how much people care about the old games.

And what Itsuno was referring to was a hybrid of the two ideologies between western ideas of getting a look down then building engines, with the Eastern following of "build a gameplay, then throw something in top of it to make a look". You're definitely making a hell of a stretch and twisting Itsuno's words which had NOTHING TO DO WITH A COMBAT ENGINE. You are making stuff up at this point, and you know it, the whole article was about the different approaches in general, not to a combat engine.

Yeah I'm sorry if I'm not throwing up the quotes I need. I'm probably talking out of my arse and I'm sorry.

BTW, Tameem is not as bitter and "snippy" as you seem to want to think of him as, I've talked to the guy, he's not that bad.

Oh ho-ho, really?

Little arrogant, but honestly, he was more surprised by the DEATH THREATS he got for having followed the capcom directive of "make it as different as possible. Why are we outsourcing for you to make this like we would?"

The thing is you have to expect the worst from people and learn to look beyond the stupid people to the legitimate critique. You're always going to have to put up with morons, especially when you're adapting a beloved franchise in a drastic way. Believe me, car bombs were mentioned in fan forums around the time the first images of JJ Abrams's Star Trek were revealed. The difference is Abrams didn't have catty little insults at the old guard of Trek's expense; he appreciated that he had an uphill fight in order to win over the existing fanbase, and realised that it would be impossible to get the approval of the hardcore trekkies. Resigned to that he made a puerile popcorn flick, but loaded it with affectionate glances back at the serie's legacy, and most will agree it has good intentions.

DmC is...well, it's DmC. It wouldn't have taken much to turn those two examples into something charming to win over the old fans. How about when Dante gets the wig on his head, he smirks and says, "Hey, not bad. What do you think?" and the Hunter Demon roars so loud it flies off, causing Dante to reply, "Yeah, it's not for me.". Instead of a morbidly obese man, they could have had a kid with a cap with "5" mourning at a grave, and Dante gives him a slap on the shoulder and say, "Hey, it gets better. Trust me.". Just little well natured bits like that to show that NT don't want to burn bridges with their huge install market. Why punish everyone because of what a handful of morons do?

NT WAS going to just develop DMC5, Capcom told them "reboot the thing". Start laying blame you have against the people in charge, not the guy hired to do a job with directives.

I'm laying blame with everyone. You. Me. Everything. My Blamethrower is at full pressure and nobody is getting out without a third degree!

A game without taunts doesn't have less value compared to games with taunts. Taunts are nothing more then extra filling. It is unimportant and useless.

It clearly is important because people are willing to debate it's exclusion and lament it's absence. Even if you yourself didn't use it, you have to have some sympathy for your fellow fans, right?

 

[ZeroLove]

It clearly is important because people are willing to debate it's exclusion and lament it's absence. Even if you yourself didn't use it, you have to have some sympathy for your fellow fans, right?

... No.

This might come to as a shock for you, but I only care for what I like. My own personal opinion is what matters to me, not others' opinions. Sure, I can respect other people's opinions, but in the end, it is only my own opinion that matters to me.
That said, I don't form an opinion on something without actually having experienced it. I can have thoughts about something which I share with others, but until I have been in the situation myself, I try to stay open-minded. I can't use other people's opinions for anything other than contemplating about how it would be for me when I experience the discussed situation myself.

People bitching about something unimportant on the internet... Why would I show sympathy to such people? They miss the taunts and they share those opinions to the people on here. I don't miss the taunts, I never liked them or used them, and I share that opinion with you guys. Why should I form my opinion about it from other people's perspective when they are clearly not willing to do the same for me? Why is it ME who has to change MY point of view and not the others?

If you are going to preach something, practise it yourself first.

 

[Macabre]

... No.

This might come to as a shock for you, but I only care for what I like. My own personal opinion is what matters to me, not others' opinions. Sure, I can respect other people's opinions, but in the end, it is only my own opinion that matters to me.
That said, I don't form an opinion on something without actually having experienced it. I can have thoughts about something which I share with others, but until I have been in the situation myself, I try to stay open-minded. I can't use other people's opinions for anything other than contemplating about how it would be for me when I experience the discussed situation myself.

People bitching about something unimportant on the internet... Why would I show sympathy to such people? They miss the taunts and they share those opinions to the people on here. I don't miss the taunts, I never liked them or used them, and I share that opinion with you guys. Why should I form my opinion about it from other people's perspective when they are clearly not willing to do the same for me? Why is it ME who has to change MY point of view and not the others?

If you are going to preach something, practise it yourself first.

I didn't say you had to change your opinion Chief, just whether or not you can sympathise with your peers or appreciate their perspective on things. People come to forums to share their opinion with others, to be informed and crucially to find out from others what their opinions are. I certainly don't come here to have my own thoughts parroted back at me by like-minded drones: I'd much rather people contested the validity of my observations so I can learn from their rapport and improve.

But everyone comes to these kinds of discussions with a different intentions and desires, so keeping to your own thoughts and ignoring everyone who disagrees is fine too.

Obviously Taunting as it existed in the old series wouldn't compliment DmC's take on the rating system, but now I've thought about it DmC's rating system has a lot in common with another game I really enjoy: God Hand. In God Hand instead of being rated by the style and speed with which you dispatch foes the game monitors how much damage you deal and how effectively you dodge incoming attacks. The better you are, the more you "Level Up", and the worse you do the more you "Level Down". So instead of Taunts being used to amp up your rating or to keep a combo going, you instead use it to give your Level Meter a little boost and charge up the God Hand, which is this game's equivalent of Devil Trigger. However, the trade off with using Taunt isn't only that you are rendered vulnerable while using it in battle, but also that taunted enemies go into a Rage status, where they temporarily attack more aggressively, take less damage and will basically wreck you even faster than normal.

If anyone's been playing on Dante Must Die difficulty on DmC you'll know that every monster has an Enraged state that's meant to be the equivalent of the Devil Trigger old Dante Must Die monsters had access to. If I were balancing combat, I'd have Dante's Taunt trigger this status in all surrounding enemies and give you that tempting boost of Devil Trigger you so desperately want. It would be an entirely optional way of boosting difficulty for fans who want it, tempt casual players with the reward of more power and set up the motif that the game is leading to: Dante is an incredibly annoying asshole whose mission in life is to get up in a God's grill and make a really tasteless MasterCard joke.

 

[aoshi]

A game without taunts doesn't have less value compared to games with taunts. Taunts are nothing more then extra filling. It is unimportant and useless.

Uh...No. Taunts boost devil trigger and increase your style ranking if done at the right time. In DMC 3, There is a special taunt which gets dante to say....."Sweet baby". It's kinda like style achievement which is wat DMC is all about. In DMC 4 though, taunt will only increase DT when done at the right time where enemy is dying. Like when an assault or blitz dies. Its not completely useless as you say.

 

[ZeroLove]

I didn't say you had to change your opinion Chief, just whether or not you can sympathise with your peers or appreciate their perspective on things. People come to forums to share their opinion with others, to be informed and crucially to find out from others what their opinions are. I certainly don't come here to have my own thoughts parroted back at me by like-minded drones: I'd much rather people contested the validity of my observations so I can learn from their rapport and improve.

But everyone comes to these kinds of discussions with a different intentions and desires, so keeping to your own thoughts and ignoring everyone who disagrees is fine too.

Obviously Taunting as it existed in the old series wouldn't compliment DmC's take on the rating system, but now I've thought about it DmC's rating system has a lot in common with another game I really enjoy: God Hand. In God Hand instead of being rated by the style and speed with which you dispatch foes the game monitors how much damage you deal and how effectively you dodge incoming attacks. The better you are, the more you "Level Up", and the worse you do the more you "Level Down". So instead of Taunts being used to amp up your rating or to keep a combo going, you instead use it to give your Level Meter a little boost and charge up the God Hand, which is this game's equivalent of Devil Trigger. However, the trade off with using Taunt isn't only that you are rendered vulnerable while using it in battle, but also that taunted enemies go into a Rage status, where they temporarily attack more aggressively, take less damage and will basically wreck you even faster than normal.

If anyone's been playing on Dante Must Die difficulty on DmC you'll know that every monster has an Enraged state that's meant to be the equivalent of the Devil Trigger old Dante Must Die monsters had access to. If I were balancing combat, I'd have Dante's Taunt trigger this status in all surrounding enemies and give you that tempting boost of Devil Trigger you so desperately want. It would be an entirely optional way of boosting difficulty for fans who want it, tempt casual players with the reward of more power and set up the motif that the game is leading to: Dante is an incredibly annoying asshole whose mission in life is to get up in a God's grill and make a really tasteless MasterCard joke.

I have never played God Hand, but from what you describe, taunts at least seem useful in that game. Maybe I should pick it up some time and try it out.

But no, I don't ignore others opinions, but I don't rate my own opinion up against others either. I come here to talk about the games, to find some cool new information, to discuss certain relevant topics and such. But someone saying "I hate this and that" isn't something I can use to a whole lot...

Uh...No. Taunts boost devil trigger and increase your style ranking if done at the right time. In DMC 3, There is a special taunt which gets dante to say....."Sweet baby". It's kinda like style achievement which is wat DMC is all about. In DMC 4 though, taunt will only increase DT when done at the right time where enemy is dying. Like when an assault or blitz dies. Its not completely useless as you say.

Fair enough, not completely useless. I stand corrected.
Personally, I would rather get my Stylish rank up by actually attacking and making stylish combat than just stand there and make taunts. Kinda seems like cheating, a shortcut to get some quick points without actually earning them.

 

[Dante47]

Taunts could be useful in Devil May Cry, but I don't think there potential was fully realized.
Maybe we could get a new and improved taunt system in DmC2. No harm in adding it.

 

[Macabre]

Uh...No. Taunts boost devil trigger and increase your style ranking if done at the right time. In DMC 3, There is a special taunt which gets dante to say....."Sweet baby". It's kinda like style achievement which is wat DMC is all about. In DMC 4 though, taunt will only increase DT when done at the right time where enemy is dying. Like when an assault or blitz dies. Its not completely useless as you say.

I think Zero's point is that if he didn't personally need it, it's as good as useless.

Just out of interest Zero, did you ever manage to beat the old games on the higher difficulties? They're kind of balanced in such a way that it's downright impossible to get anywhere if you don't get S Rankings in every fight, and it's practically impossible to do that without Taunting.

I have never played God Hand, but from what you describe, taunts at least seem useful in that game. Maybe I should pick it up some time and try it out.

Well keep in mind that God Hand is ugly, silly and completely merciless. Nobody will blame you if you roll through your first playthrough on Easy. Well, except Gene, but he's a cock. TotalBiscuit did a pretty good overview of the game, just skip along to the fighting to get an idea of what it's like.

But no, I don't ignore others opinions, but I don't rate my own opinion up against others either. I come here to talk about the games, to find some cool new information, to discuss certain relevant topics and such. But someone saying "I hate this and that" isn't something I can use to a whole lot...

If that's aimed at me I do make an effort to do constructive criticism. I overload my posts with comparison images and videos to demonstrate the points I'm making and show how I think things could be improved.

Unless you're not referring to me and i'm just making a prat of myself...so nevermind!

 

[aoshi]

Just out of interest Zero, did you ever manage to beat the old games on the higher difficulties? They're kind of balanced in such a way that it's downright impossible to get anywhere if you don't get S Rankings in every fight, and it's practically impossible to do that without Taunting.

Yeah, i have beaten DMC 3 on DMD. I relied heavily on taunts in mission 20 on every oppurtunity i get and used royal guard to complete the mission. DT was so crucial in that mission and taunts definitely helped me there. I can't remember taunts of vergil relied on style ranking but depended on weapon that was equipped.Not sure if taunts boosted DT when played as vergil.

 

[ZeroLove]

@ Macabre:
I try to, but I am not all that good at it.
And I was corrected by aoshi in that taunts were useful for something, though it is not something I would use either way. ^^

 

[Macabre]

@ Macabre:
I try to, but I am not all that good at it.
And I was corrected by aoshi in that taunts were useful for something, though it is not something I would use either way. ^^

Give it a crack again and try incorporating taunts into your repertoire, they're really thrilling to pull off when you've already got your style high, and the animations give you a great perspective on Dante as he becomes more and more audacious in how he shows off. It could give you a more rounded perspective on the issue without you sounding like you don't like green eggs and ham.

 

[ZeroLove]

Give it a crack again and try incorporating taunts into your repertoire, they're really thrilling to pull off when you've already got your style high, and the animations give you a great perspective on Dante as he becomes more and more audacious in how he shows off. It could give you a more rounded perspective on the issue without you sounding like you don't like green eggs and ham.

But... I don't like green eggs and ham.

 

[Macabre]

But... I don't like green eggs and ham.

Would you like them here or there?

 

[ZeroLove]

Would you like them here or there?

I do not like them anywhere. ;P

 

[Macabre]

I do not like them anywhere. ;P

Would you like them wild and CERAYZAY?
Would you like them bland and lazy?

 

[ZeroLove]

Would you like them wild and CERAYZAY?
Would you like them bland and lazy?

Actually, unlike Dr. Seuss' delightful little cartoon there, I actually did try using the taunts and I didn't like using them as I found them useless. I didn't deem them useless just from the start and then refused to use them at all. As I mentioned earlier, I only form an opinion after I have actually experienced it.

 

[Macabre]

Actually, unlike Dr. Seuss' delightful little cartoon there, I actually did try using the taunts and I didn't like using them as I found them useless. I didn't deem them useless just from the start and then refused to use them at all. As I mentioned earlier, I only form an opinion after I have actually experienced it.

Aw you ruined it, you berk.

The point still stands though; Taunting serves a purpose in the classic games in terms of both characterisation and gameplay, and it's absence detracts from the unique identity that the series has had in the past. We can all appreciate the notion of adapting an IP with the times, but when it comes at the cost of removing established elements in such a way that reduces depth from the gameplay without adding new mechanics that significantly improve on established elements, it's not a fair trade.