MedicoreR
Well-known Member
I'm sure you didnt heard him and Kat had an awesome sex that night
Where are taunts ?
- Thread starter ThanatosPL
- Start date
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Oddly enough, without t "bridge for keeping the Style meter up" they accommodated for that loss with how they changed the Style meter's behavior, where it doesn't decay full grades unless hit. It was done explicitly because of Taunt's removal, and in and of itself is a more user-friendly system because it doesn't require you to rush in (possibly risking injury and lost Style) to keep your Style up, and not leaving yourself open by Taunting.
It is actually a bit more applicable to DmC Dante's character, too. He's not as concerned about taunting his enemies like the classic, and par for the course with Dante's "brawler" personality, he'd rather just keep beating them to a pulp instead of mouthing off to them. All of his combat dialogue in DmC does come with attacking
Oh well. I understand why they did it, and it still works, but I still would have rather had those "scripted taunts" I mentioned before
Dante47
Well-known Member
I'm only eight missions in, and I see where a lot of people are coming from.
Taunts are genuinely fun and a useful tactic for many. I used it many times as well.
I think Ninja Theory has learned a lot from there first major tactical hack n' slash title and will work hard to improve the overall combat. So, just make sure Ninja Theory hears from us and give your constructive criticism.
Taunts are genuinely fun and a useful tactic for many. I used it many times as well.
I think Ninja Theory has learned a lot from there first major tactical hack n' slash title and will work hard to improve the overall combat. So, just make sure Ninja Theory hears from us and give your constructive criticism.
Oddly enough, without t "bridge for keeping the Style meter up" they accommodated for that loss with how they changed the Style meter's behavior, where it doesn't decay full grades unless hit. It was done explicitly because of Taunt's removal, and in and of itself is a more user-friendly system because it doesn't require you to rush in (possibly risking injury and lost Style) to keep your Style up, and not leaving yourself open by Taunting.
It is actually a bit more applicable to DmC Dante's character, too. He's not as concerned about taunting his enemies like the classic, and par for the course with Dante's "brawler" personality, he'd rather just keep beating them to a pulp instead of mouthing off to them. All of his combat dialogue in DmC does come with attacking
Oh well. I understand why they did it, and it still works, but I still would have rather had those "scripted taunts" I mentioned before
Might have been tight, but I think they could've worked both in. Perhaps as a boss or specific scene only feature or somesuch? With more dynamic dialogue for when you're doing good or bad against your attackers/boss.
I do love his comments when you're beating on the red enemies. "Unh! Badass!" "Smack that!"
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
The problem is that the entire fight engine that NT made was scrapped when Capcom discovered it was barely playable, and they dispatched Itsuno and a shower of other people with legitimate talent to throw together the combat system you now see before you.
Some of the choices, such as a lack of Lock on and perhaps even the lack of Taunt, were (supposedly) instigated by Itsuno in an effort to casualize the game and to cut down on development time.
If these incredibly poor decisions were indeed born out of a brain fart from Itsuno (A fact I find difficult to believe), they may end up sticking to them in sequels.
So remember, it's not a bug, it's a feature!
LeoXCV
Single life for life
(Pretty much said this before somewhere but I'll say it again)
Taunting could have been an end game perk, narratives pretty much over for the player so taunting could have been a fun little extra to appease people. It doesn't have to have a style increasing benefit (The game already has enough of those), it could literally just be a taunt animation with a little bit of dialogue.
Taunting could have been an end game perk, narratives pretty much over for the player so taunting could have been a fun little extra to appease people. It doesn't have to have a style increasing benefit (The game already has enough of those), it could literally just be a taunt animation with a little bit of dialogue.
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
It is actually a bit more applicable to DmC Dante's character, too. He's not as concerned about taunting his enemies like the classic, and par for the course with Dante's "brawler" personality, he'd rather just keep beating them to a pulp instead of mouthing off to them. All of his combat dialogue in DmC does come with attacking
That's clearly untrue though. Etnad constantly mouths off to enemies throughout this game with his patented witless barbs, even to security cameras for god's sake.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
See, this is the nice stuff. It's really that easy to be respectable when giving criticism to NT :/
Where's the proof of this? I've never in the three years I've followed information on this game hear something like that.
As far as I know, Capcom was always present to help work on the game's combat :/
Not really. Classic Dante's Taunts, by mechanics and whatever else, were always done as a bridge in-between attacks. In DmC, Dante's quips are almost always done mid-attack. "Slamdunk!" is yelled during a Helm Breaker, "You like it when I hit on you?" and "Nice nails, let me cut 'em for you" are said while attacking Poison, "Aww don't by shy" when hitting her and she's blocking her attacks, and so on and so forth. He even says "Lights out!" while winding up to kick the camera, and his "I'm gonna get up there and rip you apart" is more a declaration than a taunt like the Dante's "C'mon wimp" of yore.
There really aren't that many times where he blurts out a taunt when he's not actively ruining a demon's day. Where classic Dante hooted and hollered while attacking, and used smarmy taunts in-between his attacks, DmC Dante just shouts cockiness during his attacks.
Granted, those are still scripted, and it still would have been better to just have those be part of a scripted taunting system that still keeps the narrative intact along with the mechanic itself.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
Proof. I Want PROOF that this was the situation, because Capcom hired NT to handle design and plotting, with Itsuno's team ALWAYS having been on hand to develop the combat engine, and they would have expressed issues prior to release of this being the case if it were true.
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
Apologies, it's the best I could turn up before going to bed.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/08/09/what-capcom-learned-from-ninja-theory-while-making-dmc/
Itsuno: Given our experience, it seems like with the West and Ninja Theory they focus on the visuals stuff at the beginning and then build the gameplay on top of that," "Whereas at Capcom Japan, we focus on the game logic and getting the systems down in the beginning then we gradually build the visuals on top of that. The key to the feedback and the kind of advice we’ve been giving is we’ve been trying to find a hybrid system where we take a best of both worlds approach. It hasn’t been easy, but I think we’re happy with the results we have."
While I might be reaching, Itsuno's semantics imply that there was originally gameplay code produced by NT which had to be altered. There were reports of the Capcom hijacking around the same time as the 2010 reveal and the aggressive backlash that followed, and the subsequent redesign and shift in focus was mandated by Capcom. It's part of the reason why Antonaides was so bitter and the game has these catty little insults; do you really think he'd have changed anything just because his installed customerbase were unhappy?
Yeah though, mea culpa, I'm short on links right now. Sorry about that.
Ether0
Nephilim Lover
Well that's all conjecture, it was never explicitly stated so making comments on your own negative assumptions does not really say much. To me it sounds like it was a difficult give and take process and NT have stated for a while that Capcom has been basically teaching them how to make good combat in the game.
Perhaps they did make a prototype battle system that had to be scrapped which would not be that surprising honestly since that happens quite often in game development but at this point it was not firmly stated or eluded to that, that was the case.
Dante Redgrave
Son of Sparda
THe backlash, by Capcom's own admission, was expected, and INTENDED from the 2010 teaser. And what Itsuno was referring to was a hybrid of the two ideologies between western ideas of getting a look down then building engines, with the Eastern following of "build a gameplay, then throw something in top of it to make a look". You're definitely making a hell of a stretch and twisting Itsuno's words which had NOTHING TO DO WITH A COMBAT ENGINE. You are making stuff up at this point, and you know it, the whole article was about the different approaches in general, not to a combat engine.
BTW, Tameem is not as bitter and "snippy" as you seem to want to think of him as, I've talked to the guy, he's not that bad. Little arrogant, but honestly, he was more surprised by the DEATH THREATS he got for having followed the capcom directive of "make it as different as possible. Why are we outsourcing for you to make this like we would?"
NT WAS going to just develop DMC5, Capcom told them "reboot the thing". Start laying blame you have against the people in charge, not the guy hired to do a job with directives.
BTW, Tameem is not as bitter and "snippy" as you seem to want to think of him as, I've talked to the guy, he's not that bad. Little arrogant, but honestly, he was more surprised by the DEATH THREATS he got for having followed the capcom directive of "make it as different as possible. Why are we outsourcing for you to make this like we would?"
NT WAS going to just develop DMC5, Capcom told them "reboot the thing". Start laying blame you have against the people in charge, not the guy hired to do a job with directives.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I have to argue that despite what other decisions Capcom forced NT o make the removal of taunting was a creative decision that NT themselves chose to make and even Tameem stated it himself. Itsuno himself stated interest in bringing back the taunt feature but even went to say if NT will allow it or suit their....whatever....I guess in the end NT still went for the bone head move.
However as for removing taunt for the sake of the narrative itself I have to argue that is bullsh*t.
I bought and played Anarchy Reigns and though its story isn't its key focus like DmC it does have dialogue during game play moments and even the most dramatic and serious of fights and in that game you can taunt but guess what happens when you do taunt......the TAUNT GETS MUTED OUT.....the character will still strike the taunt pose but what they're saying or the taunt will get muted out while the characters is engaging in story focused/scripted dialogue.
Even Platinum Games, despite their track history of well.....bad storytelling....you can say.......can incorporate a rather useful taunt feature without disrupting the story's scripted dialogue.
Taunting in DMC games wasn't just a pointless extra gimmick it was a decent feature that had 2 uses....it increased our Style Meter and even helped increased our DT gauge and Lord knows that DmC needed it considering that thing took almost FOREVER to fill up and drains quick as hell when you used it.
Oh how is this as another solution why not use DMC1 method where he just taunts without saying nothing (it won't satisfy everyone) but its better than nothing as taunting had its uses and wasn't just there for being a cool gimmick.
Plus considering Dante's personality in this one and even his lines I think him saying stuff like "Bring It" or "Showtime" against even bosses like Mundus (considering the situation)...heck his boss battles with everyone but Vergil he taunts them. So why can't we?
However as for removing taunt for the sake of the narrative itself I have to argue that is bullsh*t.
I bought and played Anarchy Reigns and though its story isn't its key focus like DmC it does have dialogue during game play moments and even the most dramatic and serious of fights and in that game you can taunt but guess what happens when you do taunt......the TAUNT GETS MUTED OUT.....the character will still strike the taunt pose but what they're saying or the taunt will get muted out while the characters is engaging in story focused/scripted dialogue.
Even Platinum Games, despite their track history of well.....bad storytelling....you can say.......can incorporate a rather useful taunt feature without disrupting the story's scripted dialogue.
Taunting in DMC games wasn't just a pointless extra gimmick it was a decent feature that had 2 uses....it increased our Style Meter and even helped increased our DT gauge and Lord knows that DmC needed it considering that thing took almost FOREVER to fill up and drains quick as hell when you used it.
Oh how is this as another solution why not use DMC1 method where he just taunts without saying nothing (it won't satisfy everyone) but its better than nothing as taunting had its uses and wasn't just there for being a cool gimmick.
Plus considering Dante's personality in this one and even his lines I think him saying stuff like "Bring It" or "Showtime" against even bosses like Mundus (considering the situation)...heck his boss battles with everyone but Vergil he taunts them. So why can't we?
Ryuuou
The King Of Chinese Dragons
Wow, no taunts? Really? No fun... Boring.
Going back to DMC4 Dante. Come on! Ahhahaaaa ''Points'' Dies in laughter. ''Bows down on knee''
Nero: What did you say? Shall we dance? Pang. Rolls Blue Rose, ''Rolls Red Queen sword. Hey hey hey come on yeah... this gotta be fun XD
Going back to DMC4 Dante. Come on! Ahhahaaaa ''Points'' Dies in laughter. ''Bows down on knee''
Nero: What did you say? Shall we dance? Pang. Rolls Blue Rose, ''Rolls Red Queen sword. Hey hey hey come on yeah... this gotta be fun XD
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
That is the thing taunts were optional if you didn't like using them fine but others did......it doesn't make a game but it at least added more options to the player.
Taunting never got in the way before and if done right won't get in the way either. There was no need to remove them.
I guess they simply didn't think it was important enough to implant into the game. Which I can understand.
AlchemistFromEden
Well-known Member
I honestly don't think people understand how difficult it is to make something like a taunt animation work.... -__-