• Welcome to the Devil May Cry Community Forum!

    We're a group of fans who are passionate about the Devil May Cry series and video gaming.

    Register Log in

What do you think Dante did in hell?

Status
Not open for further replies.
darkslayer13 said:
Everything that has been shown in devil may cry supports the idea that what humans consider to be evil is the normal behavior for demons. You might not find it interesting but that doesn't change what has been shown. There are good demons and evil humans but it has been made very clear that those are the exception not the rule. Devil May Cry is not the real world, but you're right about one thing it is not black and white, it's grey and black (the heros' motives and history aren't entirely pure). It is definitely not the white and grey world you seem to want it to be.
Click to expand...

It sounds like we're reaching a middle ground, but your assertion that "Everything that has been shown in devil may cry supports the idea that what humans consider to be evil is the normal behavior for demons," seems only half true. With the games establishing a premise where it seems that the majority of demons are evil, the audience is given the perspective of a man whose entire life has been shaped as a result of the evil of demonkind. But only the actions of a few, under orders of their master, keep in mind. So we can go with the idea that from Dante's perspective, the majority of demons are evil. Which is neccessary to establish, if Dante is to undergo any kind of change. Meaning, that Dante must start somewhere if he is to grow further as a character. With this base level, and seeing how there isn't much room for Dante to grow further, adding a bit of realism can explore a previously uncharted side of Dante's personality and heritage. And for any kind of character development to occur within Dante, we must go on this journey into hell with him, where Dante can learn the true enemy along with the audience.

It's not a terribly radical idea. As you mentioned about "Everything that has been shown in devil may cry," as well as my examples above, the Devil May Cry series has shown us that Humans and Demons aren't so different in alot of ways. In my opinion, it would've been an interesting and logical step for the series that would mature the tone, and widen the scope of a future installment. At least that's where I would've liked to see the old series head. With the reboot, this idea has backpedaled so far I'm not quite sure debates such as this are worth it, unless Kamiya and Platinum somehow get the rights for a canon sequel.
 
KtWtWiS43 said:
It sounds like we're reaching a middle ground, but your assertion that "Everything that has been shown in devil may cry supports the idea that what humans consider to be evil is the normal behavior for demons," seems only half true. With the games establishing a premise where it seems that the majority of demons are evil, the audience is given the perspective of a man whose entire life has been shaped as a result of the evil of demonkind. But only the actions of a few, under orders of their master, keep in mind. So we can go with the idea that from Dante's perspective, the majority of demons are evil. Which is neccessary to establish, if Dante is to undergo any kind of change. Meaning, that Dante must start somewhere if he is to grow further as a character. With this base level, and seeing how there isn't much room for Dante to grow further, adding a bit of realism can explore a previously uncharted side of Dante's personality and heritage. And for any kind of character development to occur within Dante, we must go on this journey into hell with him, where Dante can learn the true enemy along with the audience.

It's not a terribly radical idea. As you mentioned about "Everything that has been shown in devil may cry," as well as my examples above, the Devil May Cry series has shown us that Humans and Demons aren't so different in alot of ways. In my opinion, it would've been an interesting and logical step for the series that would mature the tone, and widen the scope of a future installment. At least that's where I would've liked to see the old series head. With the reboot, this idea has backpedaled so far I'm not quite sure debates such as this are worth it, unless Kamiya and Platinum somehow get the rights for a canon sequel.
Click to expand...
Devil May Cry isn't really the type of franchise where that type of thing fits. For the series to work there needs to be a large number of enemies that Dante can kill without hesitation or guilt. The story you want to see would get is the way of that. The good demons have to be vastly outnumbered by the evil ones or there is nothing for Dante (or the player) to do. Saying demons can be good adds to the story, but saying it is normal for demons to be good makes the story fall apart. Not every idea works for every story. In a story like Devil May Cry having a species with a number of good members that you can count on one hand is needed.
 
darkslayer13 said:
Devil May Cry isn't really the type of franchise where that type of thing fits. For the series to work there needs to be a large number of enemies that Dante can kill without hesitation or guilt. The story you want to see would get is the way of that. The good demons have to be vastly outnumbered by the evil ones or there is nothing for Dante (or the player) to do. Saying demons can be good adds to the story, but saying it is normal for demons to be good makes the story fall apart. Not every idea works for every story. In a story like Devil May Cry having a species with a number of good members that you can count on one hand is needed.
Click to expand...

Totally agree what you're saying about the series needing a roster of throwaway demon enemies to cut through, but "it is normal for demons to be good," is not at all what i meant. It's actually the same problem as saying that all demons are bad. Saying they are all good or all bad puts the series' demons in very narrow constraints. Assigning them as having a "realistic morality" means that they have the capacity for both. And what is every struggle, but a battle against those who choose good and those who choose bad? Dante would still have plenty of baddies to fight against, and plenty of innocents to save too. But there would be a flexibility as to what race. After all, the entireity of Devil May Cry 1's demon enemies were servants of Mundus. Definitely demons who've chosen a path of evil. As were the enemies of Devil may Cry 3, who were sealed away inside Temen-ni-gru. They shouldn't represent the entireity of their race.
 
KtWtWiS43 said:
Totally agree what you're saying about the series needing a roster of throwaway demon enemies to cut through, but "it is normal for demons to be good," is not at all what i meant. It's actually the same problem as saying that all demons are bad. Saying they are all good or all bad puts the series' demons in very narrow constraints. Assigning them as having a "realistic morality" means that they have the capacity for both. And what is every struggle, but a battle against those who choose good and those who choose bad? Dante would still have plenty of baddies to fight against, and plenty of innocents to save too. But there would be a flexibility as to what race. After all, the entireity of Devil May Cry 1's demon enemies were servants of Mundus. Definitely demons who've chosen a path of evil. As were the enemies of Devil may Cry 3, who were sealed away inside Temen-ni-gru. They shouldn't represent the entireity of their race.
Click to expand...
If there were good and evil demons in equal numbers there wouldn't really be any point to Dante or Sparda. The good and evil Demons would just fight each other. Sparda would be just another soldier in the war between good and evil instead of the Savior that protected humanly from his own kind alone and Dante would be nobody instead of the heir to the Legendary Dark Knight and humanity's only real hope for survival.
 
darkslayer13 said:
If there were good and evil demons in equal numbers there wouldn't really be any point to Dante or Sparda. The good and evil Demons would just fight each other. Sparda would be just another soldier in the war between good and evil instead of the Savior that protected humanly from his own kind alone and Dante would be nobody instead of the heir to the Legendary Dark Knight and humanity's only real hope for survival.
Click to expand...

Alright, let me put it this way. Your comment "If there were good and evil demons in equal numbers" further illustrates my point that putting both races into such narrow confines as "Humans good, demons bad," just doesn't allow their place in the series to grow beyond your limited view of how they should behave. Sparda's sacrifice was in going against what the majority of demon-kind, Mundus's followers at least, believed at the time. Sparda's triumph is his loyalty to himself, over loyalty to something he knew to be bad. But concepts of good and bad are not static as you suggest, but constantly changing. Sparda for example fought for what he believed. And this sense of morality, this moral doctrine is constantly changing. In the Devil May Cry universe and in real life. There was once a time when homosexuality was a crime, or African Americans were enslaved, or women were not given the same rights as a man. Concepts of morality and social change progress with the passing of time in our culture. For a series like Devil May Cry to grow in a mature and realistic way, these ideas must continue to be represented in this way, as they have in each installment of the series. This is the base level of growth. You cannot keep generalizing either race as "mostly good" or "half bad." It does not fit within a mature framework of the realism of what morality means.

I'm not sure how I should keep rephrasing this, but I'm kind of done talking about this. We've gotten a little off topic from the thread and I don't see any point in continuing to say the same things over and over again. Not trying to be an ass or ridicule you, but I'm just kind of done talking about this
 
With his mighty Nevan in hand, Dante put on one hell of a metal show (no pun intended)! He later humped Purgatori from the Lady Death comics... I know I would!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom