Were the reviews really paid or people aren't buying it?

[Macabre]

You responded to my posts. If you're going continue this, then do it on PM.

It's obvious now that you're doing this for the sake of an audience, nothing more.

And you never needed to reply, either.

You're accusing me of intentionally trying to mislead people, and now you're throwing out flippant accusations like confetti. I'll be damned if I'm not going to take issue with that, and anyone else who has a problem with your behaviour deserves to know it.

It's still an insult when YOU insult people, you know.

An addendum of the subject of DmC's reviews: I think that DmC is one of those games that tends to review well. It has a lot of superficial flash and approachable mechanics, and accessibility tends to be a crucial feature for mainstream reviewers. They do after all review with the everyman in mind rather than on behalf of those with esoteric tastes, especially when it comes to action games.

Can anyone think of a recent, non-strategy game with a high difficulty curve or obscure mechanics that got positive reviews across the board? I recall when the likes of Minecraft and Demon's Souls first hit the gaming press, and they weren't nearly as favourably regarded as they are now in retrospect.

 

[Demi-fiend]

snip

Then take it to PM. You're only escalating the situation.

So, your reasoning for derailing the thread is because "other people deserve to know"? Ah, so you do want an audience.

Not very effective as a defense.

Reported.

 

[Chancey289]

Demon's Souls did get favorable reviews across the board.

Demon's Souls is a stupid name. They could call it Demon Souls or Demon's Soul and it would mean the same thing but nope. Let's just pick the name that's incredibly awkward to say.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Let's just pick the name that's incredibly awkward to say.

Demons-s-s-Souls

 

[Macabre]

Demon's Souls did get favorable reviews across the board.

Demon's Souls is a stupid name. They could call it Demon Souls or Demon's Soul and it would mean the same thing but nope. Let's just pick the name that's incredibly awkward to say.

Yeah, that was awkward nomenclature. Even now we have to refer to the "franchise" as the Souls series, which always gets me confused with Soul Blade/Calibur.

But there were reviewers who considered DeS to be too difficult and user unfriendly. Yahtzee for example, and he has a lot of clout with plenty of gamers and reviewers alike.

 

[Chancey289]

I just find those Souls games boring. And no, I don't suck at them. I can hold my own in those games but, I just prefer to play other stuff.

I really hate the Souls community. They can really be some self righteous elitist pr!cks. I hate them. A part of the reason why I don't play those games.

And I saw where Yahtzee was coming from. I also discovered that lack of pause feature by getting killed. Got a call from my girlfriend at the time and walked out the room. Came back I was dead. I was well, f*ck you too game.

I was playing offline anyway and it really did seem like the game was like "What kind of loser are you? Real gamers have no friends or girlfriend. No pausing. You can't use the bathroom either!"

I got better as time went on but, I found myself playing different stuff anyway because I was going zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[Macabre]

I just find those Souls games boring.

And you see, that's why you like Yahtzee so much; your opinions seemingly coincide with his.

Yahtzee as a reviewer is one of those who looks to the most superficial, knee-jerk observations he can make in the first hours of play in order to construct jokes to base his reviews around. His critique tends to avoid elements such as kinesthetics or complex levels of play, because his high review turnover means he doesn't have the time to analyze them.

You don't see many mainstream reviewers carefully weighing up exactly what DmC lacks in relation to it's predecessors, or at what cost the "improvements" have come to. A 3D Hack and Slash is just mashing combos over and over, right? What more is there to review? Cutscenes and graphics? Great, something that's easy to describe!

I also discovered that lack of pause feature by getting killed. Got a call from my girlfriend at the time and walked out the room. Came back I was dead. I was well, f*ck you too game.

I was playing offline anyway and it really did seem like the game was like "What kind of loser are you? Real gamers have no friends or girlfriend. No pausing. You can't use the bathroom either!"

Funny, because I have friends, a girlfriend and a time consuming job, yet I found the lack of a pause feature to be an interesting challenge that meant I had to seek out safe areas carefully as I explored. It's almost as if you like resorting to insults in order to belittle people you disagree with.

 

[Chancey289]

And you see, that's why you like Yahtzee so much; your opinions seemingly coincide with his.

Yahtzee as a reviewer is one of those who looks to the most superficial, knee-jerk observations he can make in the first hours of play in order to construct jokes to base his reviews around. His critique tends to avoid elements such as kinesthetics or complex levels of play, because his high review turnover means he doesn't have the time to analyze them.

You don't see many mainstream reviewers carefully weighing up exactly what DmC lacks in relation to it's predecessors, or at what cost the "improvements" have come to. A 3D Hack and Slash is just mashing combos over and over, right? What more is there to review? Cutscenes and graphics? Great, something that's easy to describe!



Funny, because I have friends, a girlfriend and a time consuming job, yet I found the lack of a pause feature to be an interesting challenge that meant I had to seek out safe areas carefully as I explored. It's almost as if you like resorting to insults in order to belittle people you disagree with.

I wasn't insulting anyone. -_- That line was just a silly little quip not aimed at anyone. Don't take it personally. Geez, what is your deal?

I like Yahtzee because he's funny. Simple as that. I tend to agree with Yahtzee on things but at times I also disagree with him. He recently reviewed Injustice and doesn't really care for it, I adore the game. He also knocks around Little Big Planet which is probably my favorite game on the PS3. He even flames my precious MGS which is one of my favorite video game series ever. Still entertaining so that's why I like it. I won't get upset if he knocks around my favorite game.

 

[TerrorA]

.

You don't see many mainstream reviewers carefully weighing up exactly what DmC lacks in relation to it's predecessors, or at what cost the "improvements" have come to. A 3D Hack and Slash is just mashing combos over and over, right? What more is there to review? Cutscenes and graphics? Great, something that's easy to describe!

Angry Joe.

 

[VineBigBoss]

I just find those Souls games boring. And no, I don't suck at them. I can hold my own in those games but, I just prefer to play other stuff.

I really hate the Souls community. They can really be some self righteous elitist pr!cks. I hate them. A part of the reason why I don't play those games.

And I saw where Yahtzee was coming from. I also discovered that lack of pause feature by getting killed. Got a call from my girlfriend at the time and walked out the room. Came back I was dead. I was well, f*ck you too game.

I was playing offline anyway and it really did seem like the game was like "What kind of loser are you? Real gamers have no friends or girlfriend. No pausing. You can't use the bathroom either!"

I got better as time went on but, I found myself playing different stuff anyway because I was going zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I find the Souls community to be quite mature at the time i've discussed some things about lore even on YouTube who is a ****fest by itself. In EpicNameBro's lore videos there is plenty of productive comments and stuff, never stepped on any DkS or DeS forum, just the forums of the Wikis where i discussed some builds and it was pretty straight forward to discuss, no more than one week i had the answers i needed to go and do some builds i wanted, with help from more experienced players.

The lack of pause feature comes from the game design overall, the game was design to be merged with the multiplayer online feature, none online games can be paused and sadly you cannot add a pause feature because of this design choice, probably. And it really was a matter of lefting your character standing in some safe place, if there's no enemies nearby nearly nothing can hurt you if you're not playing online, or you just can select "quit game" in a matter of like... 5 seconds by pressing select and the "Quit" option.

The Souls series is for the most part indeed a hardcore gaming experinece, although there's no really a barrier between hardcore gaming, social life and having a girlfriend like you imply, i think that this mindset of thinking that playing videogames as any other hobbie like martial arts or any sport as something negative is just lack of knowledge of what gaming is. You don't need more than 3 to 7 hours per week to do "hardcore" gaming, the actual world champion on SSFIVAE 2012 plays 3 to 7 hours, mostly 3 he said on an interview on a tournament he attended here in Brazil, and is still winning most of the tournaments he attends to. Most of the guys of the fighting game community here in Brazil have girlfriends and hangout with their friends just like the average joes that are casual gamers; actually, being a competitor in the fighting game community made me talk with a lot of people from everywhere in my country and other countries (i've already played with Chileans, Canadians and Koreans, very cool experiences)

Here's the interview with Laugh and Infiltration from Korea, the start of the video was made talking in portuguese, but most of the interview goes on in english with portuguese translations in real time by the journalist.

(Jump to 10:44 where the interviewer asks for their practice routines and how much time they play)

 

[Chancey289]

I find the Souls community to be quite mature at the time i've discussed some things about lore even on YouTube who is a ****fest by itself. In EpicNameBro's lore videos there is plenty of productive comments and stuff, never stepped on any DkS or DeS forum, just the forums of the Wikis where i discussed some builds and it was pretty straight forward to discuss, no more than one week i had the answers i needed to go and do some builds i wanted, with help from more experienced players.

The lack of pause feature comes from the game design overall, the game was design to be merged with the multiplayer online feature, none online games can be paused and sadly you cannot add a pause feature because of this design choice, probably. And it really was a matter of lefting your character standing in some safe place, if there's no enemies nearby nearly nothing can hurt you if you're not playing online, or you just can select "quit game" in a matter of like... 5 seconds by pressing select and the "Quit" option.

The Souls series is for the most part indeed a hardcore gaming experinece, although there's no really a barrier between hardcore gaming, social life and having a girlfriend like you imply, i think that this mindset of thinking that playing videogames as any other hobbie like martial arts or any sport as something negative is just lack of knowledge of what gaming is. You don't need more than 3 to 7 hours per week to do "hardcore" gaming, the actual world champion on SSFIVAE 2012 plays 3 to 7 hours, mostly 3 he said on an interview on a tournament he attended here in Brazil, and is still winning most of the tournaments he attends to. Most of the guys of the fighting game community here in Brazil have girlfriends and hangout with their friends just like the average joes that are casual gamers; actually, being a competitor in the fighting game community made me talk with a lot of people from everywhere in my country and other countries (i've already played with Chileans, Canadians and Koreans, very cool experiences)

Here's the interview with Laugh and Infiltration from Korea, the start of the video was made talking in portuguese, but most of the interview goes on in english with portuguese translations in real time by the journalist.

(Jump to 10:44 where the interviewer asks for their practice routines and how much time they play)

Calm down.

Well, you were lucky finding decent players. For the most part, I couldn't play a session without getting at least 5 hate messages insulting me because I killed them and foiled their invasion plot. I'm the a$$hole because I didn't let them grief me. Nice logic Souls players.

You're breaking this down like some kind of scientific analysis dude. Chill. Just because I don't really enjoy playing the games, you can believe me or not but, I'm skilled enough to hold my own in that game and I would be confident enough to face a player like you.

I can hang with the hardcore crowd. I just don't really go around with some kind of pride that I'm better than most people at video games because it doesn't matter to me. Elitist attitudes is what gets on my nerves. I hate the people who try to tell me that I'm not a person "worthy" to play Dark Souls just because some of my favorite games of all time are games like Banjo Kazooie.

Oh no, I enjoy a cartoony platformer about a bear and bird in a backpack battling an evil witch. I guess I'm not cool enough to hang. Oh well.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Calm down.

Well, you were lucky finding decent players. For the most part, I couldn't play a session without getting at least 5 hate messages insulting me because I killed them and foiled their invasion plot. I'm the a$$hole because I didn't let them grief me. Nice logic Souls players.

You're breaking this down like some kind of scientific analysis dude. Chill. Just because I don't really enjoy playing the games, you can believe me or not but, I'm skilled enough to hold my own in that game and I would be confident enough to face a player like you.

I can hang with the hardcore crowd. I just don't really go around with some kind of pride that I'm better than most people at video games because it doesn't matter to me. Elitist attitudes is what gets on my nerves. I hate the people who try to tell me that I'm not a person "worthy" to play Dark Souls just because some of my favorite games of all time are games like Banjo Kazooie.

Oh no, I enjoy a cartoony platformer about a bear and bird in a backpack battling an evil witch. I guess I'm not cool enough to hang. Oh well.

But i'm not upset, man. I'm just adressing your statements.

Oh... the hatemails, haha. I got some of them too, mainly on SSFIV, but it's not a thing of some specific community. Go play some casual games like Battlefield or Call of Duty and i'm sure that you will still be gifted with some of those, it's not particulary from the "Souls community" or the "hardcore community". It's more off a side-effect from multiplayer and online games.

Their attempts to offend you and the casuals as a whole are just as pathetic as your attempts to negatively stereotype they, i mean, there's no really need to offend people who plays videogames just to have 30 minutes of fun or the players that really digs down to the core of the games and try to have more knowledge and practice with them. Yet, i understand your disappointement and knows one guy or another who acts like this, but be cool on how you see an entire community because of some jerks.

I'm not questioning your skills, but i'm always up for a challenge! When my friend returns DeS and DkS to me i can contact you for this challenge (mainly in DeS, in DkS i still have to farm some stones and humanitys to make my builds, and i'll have to start another characters to fit with the community Soul Levels right now).

And just adding something to thread: i don't know any reviewers that actually have a deep understandment of what they're talking about, most of them just throw out their opinions and that's it, nor from Brazil neither from any country that talks english (which is the only language that i can understand well besides portuguese). I prefer to play a game (rent, pirate or just borrow from a friend that buyed) and see if i like it or not. I really encourage people to go and play the game before taking on some conclusions, but when it's some funny review like Chancey pointed out it's good to watch, even a parody or someone being extreme with the flaws or some aspects of a game like Angry Videogame Nerd does with Ninja Gaiden and other titles like Castlevania 2.

EDIT:

You're breaking this down like some kind of scientific analysis dude.

I have some inclination to approach things like this, don't mind me. I think that's the best method to gather knowledge about something.

 

[Chancey289]

But i'm not upset, man. I'm just adressing your statements.

Oh... the hatemails, haha. I got some of them too, mainly on SSFIV, but it's not a thing of some specific community. Go play some casual games like Battlefield or Call of Duty and i'm sure that you will still be gifted with some of those, it's not particulary from the "Souls community" or the "hardcore community". It's more off a side-effect from multiplayer and online games.

Their attempts to offend you and the casuals as a whole are just as pathetic as your attempts to negatively stereotype they, i mean, there's no really need to offend people who plays videogames just to have 30 minutes of fun or the players that really digs down to the core of the games and try to have more knowledge and practice with them. Yet, i understand your disappointement and knows one guy or another who acts like this, but be cool on how you see an entire community because of some jerks.

I'm not questioning your skills, but i'm always up for a challenge! When my friend returns DeS and DkS to me i can contact you for this challenge (mainly in DeS, in DkS i still have to farm some stones and humanitys to make my builds, and i'll have to start another characters to fit with the community Soul Levels right now).

And just adding something to thread: i don't know any reviewers that actually have a deep understandment of what they're talking about, most of them just throw out their opinions and that's it, nor from Brazil neither from any country that talks english (which is the only language that i can understand well besides portuguese). I prefer to play a game (rent, pirate or just borrow from a friend that buyed) and see if i like it or not. I really encourage people to go and play the game before taking on some conclusions, but when it's some funny review like Chancey pointed out it's good to watch, even a parody or someone being extreme with the flaws or some aspects of a game like Angry Videogame Nerd does with Ninja Gaiden and other titles like Castlevania 2.

EDIT:


I have some inclination to approach things like this, don't mind me. I think that's the best method to gather knowledge about something.

I don't play terrible army games. I'm not really a shooter fan. I hate those CoD and other army games with a passion.

I'm more of an old school gamer in general though. I play NES, SNES, and other old school stuff more than anything this day and age. I just find Dark Souls boring. Not bad just personally for me, boring. I see why people are addicted to it. I see why it's such a big deal to those people and recognize it for what it is and acknowledge what it represents. The developers are people I can respect because they have an attitude more gaming developers should have. Making games for the people who want to play them.

I would just rather play some old school MegaMan, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, etc. etc. Those can be challenging and in the fun way for me because I love retro games.

I'm not really so much in to the online multiplayer scene anyway too much. I'm one of the few who likes single player games and when I play multiplayer it's usually locally with some friends or private games with them.

to me local multiplayer> online multiplayer

I still ring up my buddies to get together for some Goldeneye on the N64 every now and then. Old school still rules.

 

[VineBigBoss]

I don't play terrible army games. I'm not really a shooter fan. I hate those CoD and other army games with a passion.

I'm more of an old school gamer in general though. I play NES, SNES, and other old school stuff more than anything this day and age. I just find Dark Souls boring. Not bad just personally for me, boring. I see why people are addicted to it. I see why it's such a big deal to those people and recognize it for what it is and acknowledge what it represents. The developers are people I can respect because they have an attitude more gaming developers should have. Making games for the people who want to play them.

I would just rather play some old school MegaMan, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, etc. etc. Those can be challenging and in the fun way for me because I love retro games.

I'm not really so much in to the online multiplayer scene anyway too much. I'm one of the few who likes single player games and when I play multiplayer it's usually locally with some friends or private games with them.

to me local multiplayer> online multiplayer

I still ring up my buddies to get together for some Goldeneye on the N64 every now and then. Old school still rules.

Although i don't hate this modern FPSs, i still prefer games more "unrealistic" like Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem, Unreal Tournament or Counter-Strike 1.6 and this new CS:GO are the kinds of FPS that i like to play, still the only one that i played alot was Counter-Strike.

Local multiplayer will always be cooler than online play and in that i agree with you, it's a shame that it's kinda dying, when i was a child my entire neighborhood would hang in the arcades to play SF or MK (we call the arcades "fliperamas" here). I prefer to play fighting games offline both for the stability and the fun of making joke of a friend of your, that's why i prefer to practice with less skilled players but offline, than with high skilled players online. I'm kinda teaching some friends on how to play SSFIV in a competitive way, and one of these friends are teaching me UMvC3 (i don't want to compete in this game, but it's still fun to play).

I like these games you mentioned, but i just play them occasionaly, i would say i make a run through Megaman X at least one time per year and that's it, my nostalgia feelings are gone at the end. Sometimes i replay Castlevania: SOTN or Aria of Sorrow but just for the sake of nostalgia too, i had a good time in the past with all these games.

 

[Macabre]

I really encourage people to go and play the game before taking on some conclusions, but when it's some funny review like Chancey pointed out it's good to watch, even a parody or someone being extreme with the flaws or some aspects of a game like Angry Videogame Nerd does with Ninja Gaiden and other titles like Castlevania 2.

The problem lies with taking too seriously the reviewers who, by their own admission, intend their work to be entertainment more than an actual review. I still hold Yahtzee accountable in part for The Witcher's lack of success; he had just risen to popularity when he reviewed that game, and many gamers passed over it because he decided it was a MMORPG because of reasons. It took me years to give it a look after his review, and I realised how tragic it was that so many had missed out on such a great RPG.

In fact one of his primary criticisms of The Witcher was that it was too complicated, which most players will attest simply isn't the case. Look to his DMC4 review and he has next to nothing to say about the combat, while he lauds God Of War because it allows him to kill enemies outright by simply tapping the circle button.

This isn't a problem exclusive to Yahtzee per say, but he's definitely one of the more well known reviewers who has this problem of exaggerating minor flaws in games while glossing over major ones. Hell, if I was churning out a review a week, a column, and running a bar all at once I might do the same.

So for many reviewers they pick up DmC and say "Yep, the enemies let me kill them, these cutscenes look expensive and the platforming basically plays itself. That'll be worth $60 to John Q Public."

I do think it should be mandatory that a if a published journo reviews a game, he should at least have a rounded understanding of it's predecessors.

 

[Chancey289]

Although i don't hate this modern FPSs, i still prefer games more "unrealistic" like Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem, Unreal Tournament or Counter-Strike 1.6 and this new CS:GO are the kinds of FPS that i like to play, still the only one that i played alot was Counter-Strike.

Local multiplayer will always be cooler than online play and in that i agree with you, it's a shame that it's kinda dying, when i was a child my entire neighborhood would hang in the arcades to play SF or MK (we call the arcades "fliperamas" here). I prefer to play fighting games offline both for the stability and the fun of making joke of a friend of your, that's why i prefer to practice with less skilled players but offline, than with high skilled players online. I'm kinda teaching some friends on how to play SSFIV in a competitive way, and one of these friends are teaching me UMvC3 (i don't want to compete in this game, but it's still fun to play).

I like these games you mentioned, but i just play them occasionaly, i would say i make a run through Megaman X at least one time per year and that's it, my nostalgia feelings are gone at the end. Sometimes i replay Castlevania: SOTN or Aria of Sorrow but just for the sake of nostalgia too, i had a good time in the past with all these games.

Feel the same way about shooters. I don't hate the genre but really hate more so what it's become. I loved playing games like Doom, Unreal, Half-Life, Quake, and of course Counter Strike back in the day. Now, it's all the same crap.

The only shooter I had fun with in recent memory was Far Cry 3. That game was pretty fun and I mainly just liked to live out my Rambo fantasy in that game. Gotham City Imposters was some fun too.

 

[Macabre]

Feel the same way about shooters. I don't hate the genre but really hate more so what it's become. I loved playing games like Doom, Unreal, Half-Life, Quake, and of course Counter Strike back in the day. Now, it's all the same crap.

The only shooter I had fun with in recent memory was Far Cry 3. That game was pretty fun and I mainly just liked to live out my Rambo fantasy in that game. Gotham City Imposters was some fun too.

Try Blood Dragon, it's pretty damned good, if a little too easy by design.

Plus we have Rise of the Triad to look forward to.

 

[Chancey289]

The problem lies with taking too seriously the reviewers who, by their own admission, intend their work to be entertainment more than an actual review. I still hold Yahtzee accountable in part for The Witcher's lack of success; he had just risen to popularity when he reviewed that game, and many gamers passed over it because he decided it was a MMORPG because of reasons. It took me years to give it a look after his review, and I realised how tragic it was that so many had missed out on such a great RPG.

In fact one of his primary criticisms of The Witcher was that it was too complicated, which most players will attest simply isn't the case. Look to his DMC4 review and he has next to nothing to say about the combat, while he lauds God Of War because it allows him to kill enemies outright by simply tapping the circle button.

This isn't a problem exclusive to Yahtzee per say, but he's definitely one of the more well known reviewers who has this problem of exaggerating minor flaws in games while glossing over major ones. Hell, if I was churning out a review a week, a column, and running a bar all at once I might do the same.

So for many reviewers they pick up DmC and say "Yep, the enemies let me kill them, these cutscenes look expensive and the platforming basically plays itself. That'll be worth $60 to John Q Public."

I do think it should be mandatory that a if a published journo reviews a game, he should at least have a rounded understanding of it's predecessors.

Yahtzee says DMC 4's combat is fun but, the rest of the package is what really brings that game down and it's true. You can't say DMC 4 is worth $60. The choices made in the development for DMC 4 is downright pathetic. That game literally spits in your face as a consumer and a fan. I'm not going to shrug off this crap and act like it's ok.

 

[Chancey289]

Try Blood Dragon, it's pretty damned good, if a little too easy by design.

Plus we have Rise of the Triad to look forward to.

Of course I'm getting Blood Dragon. Blood Dragon just sounds like a lot of fun. To me, it's what Duke Nukem Forever should have been.

 

[Chancey289]

That Rise of The Triad reminds me of Wolfenstein.

You know what would be really awesome, a Jurassic Park game that's kind of like Far Cry 3. That sounds like a recipe for success and good times. I heard someone is working on a mod like that.