So you admit that the serie is incoherent. But then why are you trying so hard to make Doppelganger look like a well introduced ability when it's clearly not the case ?
Vergil getting DmC vergils moves
- Thread starter devil_inside123
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Because i think it make sense that vergil eating thr fruit to gain doppelganger
That's all, still you are justifying every thing but still didn't answer my question on dante having style in dmc 3 onward while he dosent have it in dmc 1 and 2 that are set after dmc 3? This make more sense to you than vergil acquiring a doppelganger after eating the fruit and reuniting his body?
I love dmc too but actually I don't give a **** about an ability if the games is good, and the doppelganger gives vergil fight more depth and it was also thd hardest part of the fight especially on hell and hell mode...
Simply i don't complain about this little detail in a game or else because they don't take anything aways from the game, like i don't care about dante having style in dmc 3 onward and not in dmc 1 and 2, because thr gameplay simply evolved and style is the coolest things they could have ever implemented into a dmc game, still the doppelganger explanation make more sense than dante using styles out of nowhere if you are really going for the explanation root which is useless in my opinion in a game that it's not real ... as I say it's a game simply enjoy it, don't go looking bad things in every corner when it's unnecessary
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That's because I love the DMC serie and see a lot of potential that I'm "nitpicking". And that always amaze me to see people brush the obvious enormous flaw of the serie because "it's DMC, it never got a good story". DMC 3 had a good story with not much incoherence. DMC 4 too, despite the story being cut out due to Capcom cutting in half the development time, had a story that wasn't that much incoherent. But DMC 5 just throw in things from the reboot without trying to fit them in, and play way too much on fanservice and looking backward without making the serie move forward. It's like the scenarist doesn't care at all about the serie and just quickly pulled a story without any regards on how the characters works, what have been established in previous games, etc.
And yet, we got people brushing it off like it's nothing or sometime desperately trying to make sense out of incoherent things. That kind of behavior will just show Capcom that people don't care about it, and Capcom will then keep cheesing the serie until it's dried out.
And for the style thing, they are as the title suggest, fighting style. There aren't magical power coming from Dante, the exception being the Dreadnought from DMC 4's Royal Guard. But for the rest, it's just Dante using his speed and his weapons and we know where it's coming from. That's why it is drastically different from Vergil's Doppelganger, which is coming straight from Vergil and no one know when he learn to do that. Nelo Angelo wasn't doing it, the fruit only give power, so where does it come from ? As I said earlier, if Urizen was using even a prototype of the Doppelganger after eating the fruit, it would have make more sense because we would know it is coming from the fruit. But because it doesn't, why wasn't Urizen using the Doppelganger ?
An easier way to explain it would be Vergil fighting another Doppelganger demon and getting the style as a reward.
I don't mind as Vergil does anything better than DmC!Vergil, so it's no skin off my bones. I tried playing DmC!Vergil recently and he is so boring to use. I quit. All I have to say is that I am glad that bothered doing completing the Vergil's Downfall campaign on all difficulties. I won't be revising it again outside of watch on YouTube.
Sometimes i love how wild the theories get until a person like you just comes and slices it all down using occam's razor lmfao. We already know that demons are in no way unique besides demon kings like mundus or agrosax. So it makes sense even a dying vergil at this point could take one down if Dante quite handily killed one in 3. Not to mention it was almost presented as dantes inner demons in 3. So maybe vergil didnt even fight his dopple ganger but accepted it and thus driving him even further down his dark path. Never defeating those demons
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Doesn't bother me.
If anything it makes Vergil a tiny bit more interesting to play as.
Dante has the mega Devil Trigger, Vergil has the doppelganger. Also, why are we acting like the only added this for the DLC. He had doppelganger in the boss fight too guys.
Like many others, my only problem is the lack of variety with moves and other Devil Arms. Just playing with Yamato isn't that fun to me. DmC: Vergil's Downfall did a better job with that in giving me different moves through Angel and Demon mode. Here, it just feels like playing through DMC4:SE with only Yamato.
If anything it makes Vergil a tiny bit more interesting to play as.
Dante has the mega Devil Trigger, Vergil has the doppelganger. Also, why are we acting like the only added this for the DLC. He had doppelganger in the boss fight too guys.
Like many others, my only problem is the lack of variety with moves and other Devil Arms. Just playing with Yamato isn't that fun to me. DmC: Vergil's Downfall did a better job with that in giving me different moves through Angel and Demon mode. Here, it just feels like playing through DMC4:SE with only Yamato.
The one thing DMC Vergil inherited from DmC that actually bothers me functionally, as in gameplay wise, is the teleport mechanic. I hope this time around they decided not to tie it with Summoned Swords and went back to the DMC3 formula. If the PC mod is anything to go by, might very well be the case (I also like that they brought back the DMC3 effect for Judgment Cut). Fingers crossed.
Vergil teleport normally like in dmc 3 when you fight him in DMC5, but for gameplay purpose is better having summoned sword and here's why
Is better having the summoned sword for teleporting because during gameplay yo marks the enemies where you can teleport to by putting a summon sword in they're head , you can mark more than one enemy whit summoned sword and teleport between them by simply press circle button whitout the need to lock the enemy you want to teleport to, it's very useful, you can also decided to not use summon sword and do a jump teleport to dodge enemy, so summon sword are more practical and useful than the normal teleport from dmc 3... I'm very glad they put that in dmc 4, hope it will be in 5
I couldn't disagree more. It's clunky because it creates a delay between the shooting of the sword and when you're actually allowed to teleport, when it lands, making it feel unresponsive. On top of that, sometimes embedding swords get stuck in geometry, or into the wrong enemy when two of them are really close together. Just no thanks. I wanna be able to tp at any time without it having to depend on SS.
The drawbacks heavily outweigh the benefits for me. Especially since the benefit you brought up can be easily achieved by just allowing the tp direction to be controlled by the left stick like Dante's dashes. Wanna teleport to the enemy on your right? Ok, tilt the stick to the right and press B.
You don't need the sword embed mechanic to tp between enemies, all you need is for the direction to be freely controllable by the stick. Keep it in the bin and never bring it back again, I say.
Mmmm that's also true would have been more easy to just use the direction where you want to teleport maybe like dante dash
But i like the ss method too
If we're talking cannon, then, yeah, it's all absolute BS. Vergil having Dplgngr is just as bad as suddenly having Yamato open portals. It's not how that works and it's clear that they only added because it was in DmC. If the thing could open gates to hell, which is apparently the case since that's what happened in the prequel novel, then DMC3 would've been a very different situation, or, as I usually put it, why DMC3 at all? Gameplay wise we'll have to see but I honestly think the DmC moves are very unimpressive to look at, even when DMCVergil is pulling them off, which isn't usually the case. DmCVerg looks like someone copying moves. Just look at the way he does Upper Slash compaired to DMCVerg (2:00).
The issue, though, is that I saw how Vergil fought at the end of 5, during the credits, and his animations look much more like the ones in DmC. As it is the moves are not particularly interesting to look at so I'm not a fan, but when they look just as unimpressive in 5 as they do in DmC I kinda become disillusioned.
The issue, though, is that I saw how Vergil fought at the end of 5, during the credits, and his animations look much more like the ones in DmC. As it is the moves are not particularly interesting to look at so I'm not a fan, but when they look just as unimpressive in 5 as they do in DmC I kinda become disillusioned.
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Even dmc 1 and dmc 2 would have gone very differently if dante would have used his style or is double jump lol
In the beginning of the game for example dante and Trish arrive at the island and Trish say: the castle is a is above this cliff came on
And she jump on tol of the cliff, but dante is unable to reach her despite him doing higher jump in dmc 3, isn't this stupid and inconsistent as well?
Dante should not use style in dmc 4 and 5 because it's not coerent whit dmc 1 and 2, yet they make style available because dmc 3 introduced it, but they completely came out of nowhere lol
Everyone talk about vergil, but what about dante and all his inconsistent power that completely came out of his ass? I guess that's OK because dmc 3 cannot be touched lol i think people just love to hate dmc reboot and they completely forget about all the **** done in the previous main game
Even vergil himself should not have been present in dmc 3, since according to dante and Trish, dante never saw vergil again after mundus killed her mother, because mundus took his brother after that incident and already transformed him into his Sergent but dmc 3 Retconned this for the better in my opinion
It's useless to think about all this stuff because dmc as always been inconsistent, game always expand on power and mitology, if we are going to think and try explain every single detail or every single **** about this saga, the dmc castle will crumble upon itself
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Dmc3 had a different director and they were able to push ps2 hardware further
Dmc1 was made at a different time and styles hadn't been thought of yet
That's down to gameplay decisions, not some story loophole
If you go by that logic, why couldn't dante wall run and do all the flips and the upside down shooting and multi directional shooting in DMC1
I agree with foxtrot, vergil had doppleganger shoehorned in as a nod to DmC
And eating the fruit gave him raw power and strength, why would it give him one new ability like doppleganger
And not dozens
If it was able to give new abilities
Dmc1 was made at a different time and styles hadn't been thought of yet
That's down to gameplay decisions, not some story loophole
If you go by that logic, why couldn't dante wall run and do all the flips and the upside down shooting and multi directional shooting in DMC1
I agree with foxtrot, vergil had doppleganger shoehorned in as a nod to DmC
And eating the fruit gave him raw power and strength, why would it give him one new ability like doppleganger
And not dozens
If it was able to give new abilities
I think it's poor to justify this by saying dmc 3 was made later and it's ok for dante having all that stuff when he didn't in dmc 1... Put style if you want, it's ok, it's gameplay stuff, but don't make dante do super jump in cutscene if he couldn't do that in dmc 1, be coerent
If we are going by this logic of explanation vergil acquired doppelganger after eating the fruit just like he acquired sin devil trigger... Acquiring more power meins doing more stuff, if you have more power you can make more things, pretty simple
It's seems that all you guys don't understand this fact of gaining more power... Gaining power dosent mean you get more stronger lol dosent mean you can give more powerful punch or kick to your opponent but it means acquiring more power that anable you to do more things and ability, that a why vergil want force edge because that power give him more ability, it's pretty simple lol it's just like when dante acquire new weapon he didn't only increase his strength, but he gain new ability
Just like arkham did in dmc 3, he acquire new power and he can do new stuff
Even urizen acquired new ability when eating the fruit, and even mundus used that fruit to become thr king of underworld
I don't understand why it's so hard to understand that eating the most powerful fruit in the dmc universe gives you new ability and enanche your own, thosr explaining doppelganger, also don't forget that vergil was urizen and that he sucked blood from qliphoth for one month to become even more powerful, and he can do ability as urizen that are never seen before by vergil
If dante, nero, Trish or arkham would have eaten the fruit maybe they would have gained new ability like shooting fire from they're mouth or from they're ass
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Lol you say gaining power doesnt mean you can kick or punch harder
So how do you explain dante going from being nearly killed by Mundus
To using sparda sword and then smacking him around
Also the unique abilities dante gained in that form, he couldn't use those when not wielding it
As he didn't absorb them
Just like vergil didn't have any of urizens abilities when you fight him at the end of DMC5
Gaining more raw power means amplified strength in dmc
Otherwise they would still be at the level they were in DMC3, and have no growth
Regardless, vergil and dante have their own unique abilities they had since birth due to their heritage
And their weapons
But anything not devil arm related they have, like doppleganger and quicksilver and the stuff nero learned in 4
Comes through absorbing demon souls
The fruit feeds off human blood, so unless it happens to find a human with doppleganger abilities
How would it have doppleganger abilities in it?
So how do you explain dante going from being nearly killed by Mundus
To using sparda sword and then smacking him around
Also the unique abilities dante gained in that form, he couldn't use those when not wielding it
As he didn't absorb them
Just like vergil didn't have any of urizens abilities when you fight him at the end of DMC5
Gaining more raw power means amplified strength in dmc
Otherwise they would still be at the level they were in DMC3, and have no growth
Regardless, vergil and dante have their own unique abilities they had since birth due to their heritage
And their weapons
But anything not devil arm related they have, like doppleganger and quicksilver and the stuff nero learned in 4
Comes through absorbing demon souls
The fruit feeds off human blood, so unless it happens to find a human with doppleganger abilities
How would it have doppleganger abilities in it?
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Okay but in this I agree with Foxtrot
In DMC4 I hated how that teleportation system was implemented because it made it so that I couldn't teleport the way I wanted to. Like I couldn't teleport back as oppose to DMC3.
Because he acquired sparda power who granted him new ability like flying, tossing fire from his hand and making a huge fire dragon lol and also gaining more strength, but he did gain new ability too
Yes, but he didnt keep those abilities as he didnt absorb them
Hence the point I made above
I respect your opinion and belief, I simply believe different
Based on the history of, all new abilities they have acquired outside of their normal ones they had since being young
Were got from absorbing defeated demons souls
Or artifacts in Nero's case via the devil bringer
Otherwise, dante would just be able to pull new skills out of nowhere for no reason
Because inconsistencies
If we go by your logic
Yet he has had the same moves each game, which only change when he is using a different devil arm
And dante absorbed blood from the qliphoth for a month too
Why didn't he gain a new ability from that?
Hence the point I made above
I respect your opinion and belief, I simply believe different
Based on the history of, all new abilities they have acquired outside of their normal ones they had since being young
Were got from absorbing defeated demons souls
Or artifacts in Nero's case via the devil bringer
Otherwise, dante would just be able to pull new skills out of nowhere for no reason
Because inconsistencies
If we go by your logic
Yet he has had the same moves each game, which only change when he is using a different devil arm
And dante absorbed blood from the qliphoth for a month too
Why didn't he gain a new ability from that?
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Based on the comments, it feels less like "Vergil shouldn't be able to teleport and use clones based on plot" and more like "I don't like that classic!Vergil uses moves that are associated with new!Vergil because I just don't like new!Vergil."
Which I can understand, but that's to be expected. Every new Devil May Cry game always takes ques from the last one. DMC2 inspired DMC3's style system, just as DmC inspired DMC5's tonal shift and focus on more hyper realistic, Western designs of the characters. We shouldn't be surprised in classic Vergil using DmC abilities because that was the current Vergil besides DMC3, so there wasn't much reference to work from. I personally don't mind it since I liked Vergil in DmC anyway. But I can understand why some aren't fond of it.
I always said that DMC5 was what Capcom wanted DmC to be, but just couldn't become.
Which I can understand, but that's to be expected. Every new Devil May Cry game always takes ques from the last one. DMC2 inspired DMC3's style system, just as DmC inspired DMC5's tonal shift and focus on more hyper realistic, Western designs of the characters. We shouldn't be surprised in classic Vergil using DmC abilities because that was the current Vergil besides DMC3, so there wasn't much reference to work from. I personally don't mind it since I liked Vergil in DmC anyway. But I can understand why some aren't fond of it.
I always said that DMC5 was what Capcom wanted DmC to be, but just couldn't become.