The Writing (and Artistic) Ranting Thread

[V]

I don't think the exact situation would apply to you writers, unless there are people out there who do think they can publish books and not deliver royalties. But I've had publishers screw me around before too though - as an artist and not a writer (I didn't think they'd dare upset the writer of that particular book I was working for them on, he was one of their regular big sellers, but they sure didn't mind asking the impossible of me, and then changed the contract and payment mid-way). So even if publishers don't treat their writers like crap some of them still do the artists that work for them, lol. Artists = bottom of the pile.

That said that was some years ago. No way I'd be taken for that ride these days.

Exposure is pretty much essential for artists and writers in the sense if nobody sees the work nobody will sell it. I've seen writers offer free chapters and stuff as incentives, maybe that's kind of the same thing, but if they are managing that themselves then they're not being exploited.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

So even if publishers don't treat their writers like crap some of them still do the artists that work for them, lol. Artists = bottom of the pile.

I'll keep that in mind in future.

Writers can and do get taken for a ride from time to time, though. I've heard horror stories of agents expressing interest but first this and this and this need to be done before they'll accept it for publication - and then, after the writer makes the necessary changes, the agent either says 'nope, sorry, lost interest', or as the usual case is, the agent left the company, no one there knows who you are, and no one else is taken by your work. Apparently agents in publication = frequent staff turnover.
Basically, unless conditions have been printed in black and white and all the necessary signatures are obtained, they can really mess with you.
Samples of your writing... yeah, you kind of have to send in a sample of your book when you're pitching it. But there are laws and copyright and that jazz that keep you safe.
As far as getting exposure in return for your work, specifically writing, goes. Sounds like a total scam. Exposure for a writer only comes after the deal is signed and you've been paid an advance, in the forms of interviews, book panels, book signings, guest appearances at writing workshops, and if you've got the money and mind for it, TV/radio advertising.

 

[Shadow]

Writers can, in fact, get tricked into writing for exposure. I was propositioned for work by this internet magazine a couple years back. It sounded like a good deal: you sign a contract and you can write for them for x-amount of years. But then I started looking closer and discovered that there was no pay involved--anything you sent in was for exposure only and they didn't seem to be open to negotiations even though you had to pay for a subscription to the magazine--and then there were a bunch of other weird rules. For instance, you had to write by whatever genre they assigned you and then anything you wrote would be copyrighted to them and not yourself. It was...I dunno, it seemed like a scam. Lesson learned, though: always investigate before you accept a contract.

 

[V]

I've got another example, I've attended a few universities before and they actually own your thesis if you submit one. They keep it and have a copyright on it. Your name is on it ofc, but you can't control what they do with it once submitted, they own all the rights to use, distribute, etc. because you studied at their institution. While I think it's fair they retain it and other students get the use of it, seems a bit unfair that they own it outright. So if I was studying English (I currently am) and I had to do a creative work for a thesis, I suppose that means they would own the work and if I wanted to publish it I'd have to submit some heavily revised version to a publisher. I'm not doing creative English but my SO is, and I don't know the small print for that but it seems like the uni does get to "own" your submission for free. I doubt they can profit from it but I'm not sure the student/creator would easily be able to either.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

It's clear to me that these writing competitions are less, "winning through talent" and more, "winning because of how many friends you have voting for you...even if they haven't read a single sentence of the story".

And for the record, no, I don't think I ought to win. There are plenty of stories--far better written than my own--that deserve to be amongst the top three contenders.

Sadly, so far as I've seen, a lot of the ones getting the most votes (not necessarily of the top three) really aren't all that impressive.

It just goes to show that you can't trust in these things to mean that the ones getting the most votes are actually deserving of their popularity. Unfortunately, I bet quite a few of the authors of these stories think they are just it. Suffice it to say they are in for a very rude awakening if/when they look into publishing.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

With the advent of the internet, that's pretty much what any publicly voted contest has become, sadly :/

 

[Meg]

Artistic rant threads are very important. Sticked.

Also, since I started writing weekly articles, I haven't had time to work on any other writery thing. Sadness. D:

 

[Dante's Stalker]

H: "You never really fail. It's more like you learn what doesn't work and you try again."
Me: "Oh, right. That makes sense."
H: "So I know you've got a few completed books. Which one is the closest to being sent to an agent?"
Me: "Erm..." *thinks about the work needed for all my first/second drafts* "None of them are close to ready."
H: "Oh, COME ON, which one is closest?"
Me: *FFS non-writers just don't bloody get it!* "I don't know, babe! I've got a couple that I'm rewriting and editing at the moment, and the one that WAS ready now has to undergo another rewrite because it's part of a series and I'm writing it out of sequence so there's a lot of stuff happening in the first book that I'll need to go ad and change in the sec-"
H: "Okay. So just take the one that's finished and send it to an agent. Even if it's just the first draft or whatever. Take the leap. Go big."
Me: "Or go home?"
H: "You're always home already."
Me: "Right. I'll sleep on it."

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS CONVERSATION ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
Send in a first draft?
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW?!?!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

I'm either failing Gwen miserably as a writer, or people need to understand not only that:

1) She is not fully developed by Chapter Eight because it's only a third of the way through the first story, and

2) That the context of said chapter involves her fading in and out of consciousness, so of course she's not going to be exciting at this point. I mean seriously--when was the last time you got your arm almost gnawed off by a monster and remained the life of the party?

I've literally hit the point where I can't be bothered to take advice from more than a select handful of people. Somewhere between people who talk down to you (in spite of being no closer to success than you are and giving the wrong kind of advice) and people who mean well but aren't nearly as seasoned as the handful of people you trust to give you honest input (and yet, they still try to tell you what you're "doing wrong" anyway)...yeah.

I'm not even angry. I think I've just hit the "I don't give a ****" phase.

 

[Shadow]

^ The "I don't give a f" stage is the best stage, imo. >_>

--

Slowly developing a pet peeve of writers using waaaaaaaay too many exclamation points. I mean, seriously! How does it look when every sentence ends up like this! I look like I'm yelling! Right?! And adding "suddenly" in a million times only adds to that! Yeeeaaah, I'll stop now. Anyway. I've been seeing this a lot lately when people are trying to convey a lot of action in a story. The thing is, exclamation points don't have much of a use outside of dialogue. Unless you're trying to make the reader think you're screaming at them. It also kinda takes away the urgency of the mark. If everything gets punctuated with an "!", then it eventually gets ignored and is as effective as a "." By which point, you've officially lost me.

Also, what is it with people wanting to constantly use the "parents walking in and ruining everything" in romance fics? I mean, okay. Sometimes it's genuinely something that would cause drama. Like...if your characters are hooking up in one of their bedrooms and they live in their parent's house. But when they're hooking up in a random building across the city and they're an adult? Uuuuuuuum, no. The likelihood of that is...astronomically small. :facepalm: Just...just...where are all my smart writers?

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

@Shadow Oh gods, those people. I get the slip-up with suddenly. I've come across a few that made me cringe in WoN, and I was like, "Oh ****, how'd that get there?" Same with unnecessary "then"s. ^^; But the exclamation points? Good grief. O_O

Psst...you're definitely among my select few people I trust for writerly advice.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Shadow: You know, if the same people attempted to make whichever dialogue or story element appear more dramatic, then they wouldn't have to rely on the exclamation mark. Then again, what do I know anyway?!

Suddenly I feel as if the reason these writers are using the 'parents walk in on the lovers' angle is either because they are young/ish themselves or because they couldn't think outside of the box. A demonic warlord on an epic search for an almighty spatula would've worked just as efficiently, I think you'll find (!)

 

[Shadow]

@Shadow Oh gods, those people. I get the slip-up with suddenly. I've come across a few that made me cringe in WoN, and I was like, "Oh ****, how'd that get there?" Same with unnecessary "then"s. ^^; But the exclamation points? Good grief. O_O

Psst...you're definitely among my select few people I trust for writerly advice.

I agree about the "suddenly" thing. I use it a lot, as well (same with "then" and "and"), when I'm trying to build up some excitement...which is probably why I don't really mind it unless it's in every sentence (technically, everything in life is pretty sudden, I guess, but that rules out the need to use "suddenly" for everything happening...right?). But the exclamation points kill me. x_x Maybe it's cuz I don't use them all that often myself, but still. So painful. -has the urge to ask writers if they need a beta reader when they do stuff like that-

Aww, thankies, Rebel. =3 The same for me in regards to you. ^^ -really likes your advice and appreciates it-

@Shadow: You know, if the same people attempted to make whichever dialogue or story element appear more dramatic, then they wouldn't have to rely on the exclamation mark. Then again, what do I know anyway?!

Suddenly I feel as if the reason these writers are using the 'parents walk in on the lovers' angle is either because they are young/ish themselves or because they couldn't think outside of the box. A demonic warlord on an epic search for an almighty spatula would've worked just as efficiently, I think you'll find (!)

I agree on all counts. I think, for the most part, the ones doing it are inexperienced and either don't know any better or no one's bothered to try and explain how to make their writing flow more naturally (so drama can build itself up instead of having to be manufactured). And then, of course, there are those writers who are set in their ways and really don't care to learn. ^^;

I think you're right. :S LOL! XD That would definitely work better than the parents. And I, personally, don't think I know anyone who wouldn't drop everything they were doing (no pun intended :facepalm and have a good freak out if a demon warlord popped up beside them because they couldn't find their spatula. Or if cookies were involved. -would be gone-


Oh! Btw, @Meg thank you for the sticky. ^^

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I mean seriously--when was the last time you got your arm almost gnawed off by a monster and remained the life of the party?

Last...Tuesday I think it was, but, I'm an outlier

I've literally hit the point where I can't be bothered to take advice from more than a select handful of people. Somewhere between people who talk down to you (in spite of being no closer to success than you are and giving the wrong kind of advice) and people who mean well but aren't nearly as seasoned as the handful of people you trust to give you honest input (and yet, they still try to tell you what you're "doing wrong" anyway)...yeah.

I'm not even angry. I think I've just hit the "I don't give a ****" phase.

Apologies I haven't been available to halp :c

Just...just...where are all my smart writers?

 

[EA9Sol]

*sigh* I want to write a short story (I really do) but I can't seem to think of anything to write of without changing my mind half way through. I'm so finicky. I also want to write a blog about writing and all things literary, but I'm not sure where to go...I was thinking Tumbler, however; I've been hearing to many 'princesses' are on there. I might do it for the lulz and try to get my DA account some luvs too. (๑♡3♡๑)

Also anything that has been on my mind. Ever since I've been reading Fifty Shade of Gray I wonder why? I may not be the best at my craft, I've tired to improve and I know I gotten better since my teenage years. I still remember that horrible bully who flamed me for it. Flamed for being bad writer... I do have to wonder: why do people like crap like: Twilight and Fifty Shades of Gray? It's not well written, the characters are unlikable and there is not plot...beside the 'insert yourself' fantasy they give, why? ( ¬_¬) After all the drama I've been put through and making that vow to get better, seeing this just leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

It really has me thinking: 'Why do I care?' So, for the most part I'm going to be writing for my self. If anyone likes it? Bully for me. If you don't? Then move along. I don't need an essay telling me why I suck. I write for me and for the sheer fun of it. When people can write whatever they like and have it be in the New York Times Best Sellers, I've pretty sure I'm being trolled by the universe. Once upon a time that meant something, but now? I don't even bother with it. Nothing good comes from glorified crap. So, I'm off to write something...right?

Muse: Uh, yeah?

( ¬_¬)

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

Last...Tuesday I think it was, but, I'm an outlier

:laugh: Wise ass.

Apologies I haven't been available to halp :c

Aww, it's alright. But should you ever find time...

 

[V]

Maybe don't show too much of your manuscripts as you write them. Feedback is a good thing, but sometimes detrimental when it changes your perception of where to go and what to do while in the middle of something. I know some of you show your stuff a lot and often in other circles... but if it gets to the point where the feedback is becoming irritating, depressing, malicious or dumb then it's time to work on it alone for a while, without the distraction of what everyone else is thinking.

 

[V's patron]

While waiting for an interview i wrote and completed a poem about waiting (dealing with the ny sun) before it.

its a first step.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

Not entirely a rant but writing related: So, I'm sure a lot of writers agree that upon hearing the word "synopsis", you experience a powerful migraine.

Unfortunately, much like the summary, these are things we eventually have to write (particularly if publishing is involved in our list of goals).

I'll stop beating around the bush, now: any of you particularly good at and/or knowledgeable about the steps involved in writing a synopsis? I had a bitch of a time coming up with my summary as is--and I'm still not sure it's compelling enough--so if anyone's got any pointers, I'd lavish you with gratitude. ^^;

(Basically I'm wondering how much information should be put into the synopsis to intrigue potential readers, without giving too much away). Should I make a list of the key plot points, and build my synopsis from there? Or should I be a bit more subtle?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

any of you particularly good at and/or knowledgeable about the steps involved in writing a synopsis?

It's rather tricky because nowadays the words summary and synopsis are interchangeable, but while one means to quickly give a brief description of the entirety of the story, one is simply a brief hook. I gather you're trying to get the "brief hook" yeah? It's essentially just mentioning all of the details that a person can easily understand as things they should care about when they start reading the book. It's almost like a small primer of the main thrust of the story's plot, I can use Blast Back as an example, actually...

A dungeonpunk world is beset by a tremendous blast at the hands of an immortal sorcerer. However, the Blast doesn’t decimate the world, and instead throws anything caught in the chaos hurtling through time and space. Dylock was a warrior tasked with preventing the cataclysmic event, but after getting caught in the Blast himself, he is dropped a hundred years into the future, where the world has been under the control of the sorcerer and his minions! With all of his friends aged, dead, or lost in time; and trapped in a hostile, futuristic land, Dylock must decide whether or not to continue his mission to set things right, and quite possibly revert the timeline.

It's essentially what you get a guy doing trailer voice overs to say, right? This tells us what we have to look forward to, but without spoiling anything that we don't really learn early on. Might help to build a list of the key plot points, then cut it off at the point where the main character(s) come to a decision of what to do, noticing what is ahead of them. Then of course, cut out some of the plot points that aren't quite as necessary if needed.