The Legend

[Devil Bane]

Someone else has the DMC3 mangas.YEAH.

 

[Sparda™]

1. - I meant in reality, not in the game, when priests exorcise demons, they do it in Latin because the demons always spurt out Latin. And, we're discussing Sparda and Eva here - this whole thread is going to be overflowing with speculation, because there are no hard facts to answer my silly questions.

That's Christianity's view on demons. It differs per religion and culture. Demons don't speak Latin just because the priests of the Catholic church say so.

Even though it is speculation, I'm aiming for more reasonable approaches.

2. - I didn't say Eva tries to fight/kill Sparda. On the contrary, I'd think she would steer clear of him at all costs, which would slim down the chance that they'd meet, and completely eliminate the possibility of them falling in love.

That wouldn't make sense. You see, the Vie de Marli in DMC2 were a sect of half-breed demons who were all devil hunters. Eva had all the reasons of the world to fall in love with Sparda.

3. - I agree with that whole concept, since that's the conclusion one would come to via the manga. I'm still not budging for the devil hunter idea though. It just doesn't fit, imo.

I see Eva just like Trish is - playful, in self-denial for her own life and a sweet woman. This also changed when she and Sparda settled for a family. Although I have my doubts she knew what destiny would have for her If she'd love him.

That's a big sacrifice she's done.

4. - Sparda lived among humans in peace for 2000 or so years. That's all I know from the games. Was it ever stipulated, word by word, how he died? And what do you mean he disappeared 1st century and returned 20th century? How would that play into the DMC timeline? Dante and Vergil were already born in the 20th century, so how did he knock up Eva if he pulled a Houdini?

It is never stated he lived in peace during these 2000 years. In the 18th century, he fought alongside the Vie de Marli to defeat Argosax. He went to hell and came back again.

Basically, Sparda's 2000 years in Earth are shrouded in legends as there's nothing about what he did during these years and why did he surface in the 20th century, when he met Eva, fell in love with her and fathered Dante and Vergil.

And no, Sparda's alive. There's a big chance we might see him in some Devil May Cry game.

They never actually say that he died. They just say that he sealed away his power, and that his "blood" was used as part of the seal to the demon world in DMC3. But as we saw...you can get blood without dying. Actually looking back, they do say "until his death" in DMC intro. However its a human telling his legend. Legends become distorted, and by sealing himself away its possible humanity considered him to have "died".

I also saw a question about there being more powerful demons than Sparda and Mundus (not from you, it actually may have been another thread but it fits here as it's about his past) and why Mundus would be in charge if Sparda/others were more powerful.

Most of the enemies in the game...are unintelligent. There are strong enemies with weak intellect. So they don't have what it takes to take over and rule. Others probably didn't have the ambition. As we see in DMC3 a lot of the demons have human traits. Some of the bosses say they will "help" Dante by lending their power. They aren't really "evil" and their personalities show how Sparda could have made a switch, because good/evil is not set in stone, even for Demons.

The reason other demons DONT change, is that, they have no reason to. Just like people in real life, if you're born into something and love it...why would you change it? Most likely Sparda was moved by someone/something, and that is what triggered his betrayal of the other demons. I'm 100% sure it's not because they are completely incapable.

As to how they met...we can only speculate. He had been living in the human world a LONG time by that point, and we don't know what he was doing there other than "maintaining peace", or how he was living/where.

Actually, this is very well put.

There are more powerful demons than Sparda, Mundus, Dante, Vergil and Nero all put together. It all remains to will we see these demons put to the test the skills of our heroes.

One final note from me at the closed Luce and Ombra : Strangelly what Spardatm says about the guns,is true.There is the same engraving there too.Whether this was an error in DMC1 and became popullar,or Tony Redgrave being Sparda's human name and Dante adopted it,is unknown.I say popullar error though.

To me, it is put intentionally, not an error. If It would have been an error, they would have erased that engraving from Luce & Ombra in DMC4. When Trish wields them, there's a close up of the guns and the engravings are there.

 

[Devil Bane]

In DMC 2 it's strangelly also present.And in the DMC3...artwork[CG,i don't know how to call it exactly] of the Legendary Dark Knight costume,there is the very same engraving.Even though they are still reffered to as Ebony and Ivory!

But still...isn't it merelly SAID that Sparda wielded them once?I just don't remember any solid evidence saying : "Yes,he DID wield them."All i hear is legends[about Sparda from the games that is].If there is some evidence,can someone please remind me?

On the stronger demons topic : Wasn't it said that there are perhaps stronger demons than Mundus and Argosax.From what i remember there must be...7 different demon lords,in revelence to Dante Alligheri's 7 hells.We know the 2 : Mundus and Argosax.Correct?[Sorry i haven't played 2 that much.]

But still...is Sparda really alive?

 

[Sparda™]

In DMC 2 it's strangelly also present.And in the DMC3...artwork[CG,i don't know how to call it exactly] of the Legendary Dark Knight costume,there is the very same engraving.Even though they are still reffered to as Ebony and Ivory!

But still...isn't it merelly SAID that Sparda wielded them once?I just don't remember any solid evidence saying : "Yes,he DID wield them."All i hear is legends[about Sparda from the games that is].If there is some evidence,can someone please remind me?

You see? They kept the engraving, which means Sparda probably went by the nickname Tony Redgrave. The guns Luce & Ombra were Sparda's guns, confirmed in DMC1, at the weapons descriptions.

Devil May Cry, Guns — Luce & Ombra: "Sparda's hand-made guns."

The word handmade hints at probably being Neil Goldstein from the first DMC Novel, which named her works .45 Art Warks - which is seen in Ebony & Ivory too.

On the stronger demons topic : Wasn't it said that there are perhaps stronger demons than Mundus and Argosax.From what i remember there must be...7 different demon lords,in revelence to Dante Alligheri's 7 hells.We know the 2 : Mundus and Argosax.Correct?[Sorry i haven't played 2 that much.]

But still...is Sparda really alive?

Who knows how many powerful demons lie out there?

About Sparda, I think he's alive. There's no proof as to prove him dead, only speculation.

 

[Devil Bane]

Whoo.Thanks.Also i believe Sparda using that nickname would be logical[among others during the ages].I mean :

Weapon Shop owner : Yeah,what can i do for you sir?
Sparda : Two automatic pistols,custom-made.
WSO : riiight.Name and order please
S : I'm Sparda,Saviour and Legendary Dark Knight of Humanity!
WSO : 0__o !WTF SIR?

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Ummm? Sorry to seem a tad thick...
On the subject of L&O...
When Sparda defeated Mundus did he wield L&O? Because, as i remember, the Order of the Sword didn't like Nero using a gun because Sparda only used a sword (something like that... today... I'z a bit delerious)
I thought Sparda and Dante made their own guns? (I know about the whole Nell Goldstein thing). Is Nell Goldstein really old enough to have made L&O? (I know Dante called her old lady...)

Devil Bane: I have got DMC3: Code 1 Dante... I will hopefully be getting code2 soon... but it could take up to three months to order from somewhere else...

 

[Sparda™]

Ummm? Sorry to seem a tad thick...
On the subject of L&O...
When Sparda defeated Mundus did he wield L&O? Because, as i remember, the Order of the Sword didn't like Nero using a gun because Sparda only used a sword (something like that... today... I'z a bit delerious)
I thought Sparda and Dante made their own guns? (I know about the whole Nell Goldstein thing). Is Nell Goldstein really old enough to have made L&O? (I know Dante called her old lady...)

Luce & Ombra and Ebony & Ivory are M1911 Colt handguns. As the name suggests, they're guns of 1911. Sparda went with his nickname, Tony Redgrave back then, met Neil, and had his guns customized and handmade by her.

Guns weren't invented on the 1st century, so Sparda was using a sword till the 20th century.

 

[Devil Bane]

I don't think he used them on Mundus.I believe they were made[and that includes Ebony and Ivory]in recent times.i also don't think any of us knows the exact date of Sparda hurling Mundus' demonic @$$ back to the demon realm really happened.Culd be 2000 years ago,could be just before the twins birth...But the whole Saviour idolizing thing came from ancient times as far as the Order is concerned.After all Sparda "was around"[excactly] for 2000 years.

About the DMC mangas : Better get it,it's the last volume after all.Don't be fooled by the whole "See you in DMC3 : Code 3 Lady".The series was cancelled and we assume what happened between code 3 and the game.

 

[Sparda™]

I don't think he used them on Mundus.I believe they were made[and that includes Ebony and Ivory]in recent times.i also don't think any of us knows the exact date of Sparda hurling Mundus' demonic @$$ back to the demon realm really happened.Culd be 2000 years ago,could be just before the twins birth...But the whole Saviour idolizing thing came from ancient times as far as the Order is concerned.After all Sparda "was around"[excactly] for 2000 years.

I explained above why It is impossible the guns were used 2000 years ago.

It happened 2000 years ago, the defeat of Mundus' and his army by Sparda. That time he also sealed the Temen-ni-gru and the True Hell Gate in Fortuna.

The Savior was created by Sparda to protect Fortuna from demonic threats. During all those 2000 years, the Savior was collecting demonic material to strengthen itself. When Sanctus became Vicar of Sparda, he used the Savior for his own demonic plans.

 

[Devil Bane]

^Sorry i started my post before you,but several...things happened inbetween and finished nearly 20 minutes later,unaware.

As for the Saviour,it's a misunderstanding.I reffered to Sparda with Saviour being his title,not necceserilly the other Saviour.

 

[Sparda™]

As for the Saviour,it's a misunderstanding.I reffered to Sparda with Saviour being his title,not necceserilly the other Saviour.

That's because his title was the Savior, the name of the giant demon made after Sparda's image by the LDK himself.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

1. -Even though it is speculation, I'm aiming for more reasonable approaches.

2. -That wouldn't make sense. You see, the Vie de Marli in DMC2 were a sect of half-breed demons who were all devil hunters. Eva had all the reasons of the world to fall in love with Sparda.

3. -It is never stated he lived in peace during these 2000 years.

1. - Same here, which is why I'm not budging for Eva being anything more than a simple human being. I'd have to say I'm in agreement with VB about this one. I don't believe Eva was a hunter or a sorceress.

2. - I didn't actually play DMC2 so I don't really know the details pertaining to it, but what does the half-breed sect to do with Eva and Sparda falling in love?

3. - I thought he did. I mean he kept the peace in the human world for that period of time, it could mean he himself had a peaceful life...or maybe not, now I think of it >_<

About Sparda, I think he's alive. There's no proof as to prove him dead, only speculation.

There's no proof to prove he's alive either.

VB: Hope you feel better soon!

 

[DanteMustNotDie]

This isn't proof, but if you takethe DMC2 storyline as part of the series (even though Capcom has said they don't like it very much as a game compared to the others) theres more things that might lead you to think Sparda isnt dead.

At the end, when Dante talks to Lucia, she tells him he might never be able to come back. Yada yada. She asks him about wanting to know the story of his father...and Dante replies "I know, he did the same thing I'm about to do" or something of that nature.

To me that implies that no-one on Earth would be able to tell whether Sparda died or not, because he went back into the demon world. Though in DMC3 Vergil definitely does assume that Sparda is dead. He uses the past tense at the end of the game "I'm staying here, this WAS our fathers home" but that doesnt mean he is dead for sure. Just assumed.

EDIT: Bleh I just realized that the scene after, Lucia says "But Sparda came back" so nevermind all this lol

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Perhaps Sparda went back into the demon world and sealed it away at some point so he was trapped there... again.. it's my speculation theory.
Perhaps some ppl go home to die? *shrugs*

Thanks clairavance

 

[Sparda™]

This isn't proof, but if you takethe DMC2 storyline as part of the series (even though Capcom has said they don't like it very much as a game compared to the others) theres more things that might lead you to think Sparda isnt dead.

Devil May Cry 2 is canonical to the series, so it's one big damn proof.

At the end, when Dante talks to Lucia, she tells him he might never be able to come back. Yada yada. She asks him about wanting to know the story of his father...and Dante replies "I know, he did the same thing I'm about to do" or something of that nature.

Yeah, and...?

To me that implies that no-one on Earth would be able to tell whether Sparda died or not, because he went back into the demon world. Though in DMC3 Vergil definitely does assume that Sparda is dead. He uses the past tense at the end of the game "I'm staying here, this WAS our fathers home" but that doesnt mean he is dead for sure. Just assumed.

THIS WAS OUR FATHER'S HOME - he referred to Sparda's past home, not to Sparda being dead. Two complete different things.

1. - Same here, which is why I'm not budging for Eva being anything more than a simple human being. I'd have to say I'm in agreement with VB about this one. I don't believe Eva was a hunter or a sorceress.

When It's all speculation, It comes down to personal preferences. However, I backed up my arguments to support my theory.

2. - I didn't actually play DMC2 so I don't really know the details pertaining to it, but what does the half-breed sect to do with Eva and Sparda falling in love?

Half-breeds don't tell your anything? Humans mating with demons in the 18th century don't tell you anything at all?

3. - I thought he did. I mean he kept the peace in the human world for that period of time, it could mean he himself had a peaceful life...or maybe not, now I think of it

That's quite questionable as 2000 years are quite a long time, and wars were quite common. The only years he found peace were those 7-8 years he raised his sons and then disappeared.

Even though It's true there's no proof of Sparda being alive, the fact that there's no actual proof telling he's dead, means he's MIA.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

- When It's all speculation, It comes down to personal preferences. However, I backed up my arguments to support my theory.

- Half-breeds don't tell your anything? Humans mating with demons in the 18th century don't tell you anything at all?

- That's quite questionable as 2000 years are quite a long time, and wars were quite common. The only years he found peace were those 7-8 years he raised his sons and then disappeared.

- Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'll back up my theory going on Nero x Kyrie - Nero being half-demon, Kyrie totally human. Kinda like history repeating itself maybe? I'm just guessing.

- I had an oooh shiny moment. Didn't we trail off the topic with this bit? We were discussing why Eva and Sparda would hook up if she was a devil hunter, weren't we? How'd we get to DMC2's half-breed sect? LOL, never mind.

- Wars were common but not between humans and demons. Going on the anime, which is canon to the series as far as I know, half the people who encounter demons kinda go 'whoa, is it halloween already?' because demons aren't exactly running the show, seeing as Dante takes care of them when the odd one rears its ugly head. And that's just with Dante. When Sparda was around, demons had to be very rare and far between to bump into, because it's SPARDA. He HAD to be way better than the twins put together. I think the human world was nearly demon free when Sparda lived there, because he made easy work of the ones that did pitch up.

 

[Sparda™]

- Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'll back up my theory going on Nero x Kyrie - Nero being half-demon, Kyrie totally human. Kinda like history repeating itself maybe? I'm just guessing.

Nero could be a full demon. There are many hints at that in the novel and a little one in the game, Plus, Nero is 19. Sparda could have been 10.000 years old when he fell in love with Eva. Nero's and Kyrie's relationship hasn't been explored yet, but signs show Nero is the next Sparda.

- I had an oooh shiny moment. Didn't we trail off the topic with this bit? We were discussing why Eva and Sparda would hook up if she was a devil hunter, weren't we? How'd we get to DMC2's half-breed sect? LOL, never mind.

Blond moment? :lol:

My point was that Eva's status as a devil hunter wouldn't be a hassle at all. That's why I put that DMC2 sect in the spotlight. Humans mated with demons in the 18th century. I believe we're done with this.

- Wars were common but not between humans and demons. Going on the anime, which is canon to the series as far as I know, half the people who encounter demons kinda go 'whoa, is it halloween already?' because demons aren't exactly running the show, seeing as Dante takes care of them when the odd one rears its ugly head. And that's just with Dante. When Sparda was around, demons had to be very rare and far between to bump into, because it's SPARDA. He HAD to be way better than the twins put together. I think the human world was nearly demon free when Sparda lived there, because he made easy work of the ones that did pitch up.

Where humans had wars between each other, demons were the ones taking advantage of the situation. That's where Sparda interfered to put an end to their plans, earning reputation and lots of names - Savior, Legendary Dark Knight and whatnot.

The world was not demon free, but Sparda did what he could during his wandering in the human world for 2 millennia.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I think Nero's a full demon. His human form seems to be a shell that houses his demonic form.

On the topic of Vie Du Marli, I wonder what kind of demons... You know... "did it". For all we know, they were just seeking a thrill ride...

As for wars, this is the way I see it. Human fight humans, and demons fight demons. When the demons start getting tired of tribal wars, they attack humans. Then, when the demonic leaders amass enough troops, they rally them to attack humans. Makes sense, no?

 

[Sparda™]

I think Nero's a full demon. His human form seems to be a shell that houses his demonic form.

Something I've been saying for countless threads about Nero's origins.

For all we know, they were just seeking a thrill ride...

That's nonsense.

As for wars, this is the way I see it. Human fight humans, and demons fight demons. When the demons start getting tired of tribal wars, they attack humans. Then, when the demonic leaders amass enough troops, they rally them to attack humans. Makes sense, no?

The human world and the demon world were once one.

Demons think the human world is rightfully theirs, and humans are weak and don't deserve having It.

But there are also humans who want to unite both worlds and rule over them - Arkham.

Sparda's power has been the target of demons and humans alike. In Devil May Cry 2, It was Argosax the target of Arius - awakening a powerful demon and absorbing all of its power - even though he was already a sorcerer.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

I think Nero's a full demon. His human form seems to be a shell that houses his demonic form.

On the topic of Vie Du Marli, I wonder what kind of demons... You know... "did it". For all we know, they were just seeking a thrill ride...

As for wars, this is the way I see it. Human fight humans, and demons fight demons. When the demons start getting tired of tribal wars, they attack humans. Then, when the demonic leaders amass enough troops, they rally them to attack humans. Makes sense, no?

First statement - meh. I don't think he's a full demon, but that's just me.

Second - I now have a burning desire to actually go watch the DMC2 cutscenes and hopefully get a peek at this sect and try figure out what breed of demons 'did it', just for amusement sake. With that said, we are digressing from the thread topic with gibberish talk. Let's try keep it on track, 'kay?

Third - if that was the case, it would have to be low intellect demons. If demonic leaders were able to line up an army for attack, wouldn't they rather unleash that fury on Sparda himself than on the humans? With him being such a terrible traitor and all, I'm pretty sure just about every demon out there was gunning to shed his blood. Okay, maybe not EVERY demon, but you get what I mean. He wasn't exactly loved by his own kind for messing up their chance at reigning over humans.

Not that this is about Dante (I don't want this thread to turn into a 'lets dissect Dante and Vergil and see who's best' massacre, so I'm trying to steer clear of the mention of the twins much) but where do you recon he got his appetite and love for pizza and strawberry sundaes from? Unless that information was already made public in a novel or something. Is it heriditary eg. did he inherit his appetite from Sparda? Pizza isn't exactly a rich and sophisticated choice for a meal.

Which leads me to wonder why Dante decided takeaway junk food is better suited to his tastebuds than culinary cuisine, like tofu and hors'de vours (or however it's spelled), which is something you'd imagine Vergil would rather eat, being all noble and haughty. They grew up together to a certain age, right? They were subjected to the same meals, one would assume. What circumstances did they grow up in? If Sparda was an aristocrat, he must have had the power to afford only the best for his children.

Okay, food aside, point I'm trying to get to is(I have a short attention span so you'll see my posts bouncing from one subject to another): when Sparda disappeared, did he just not show up at home one day? Did he explain to Eva that he was going to have to leave? Which brings me to the question, what sort of relationship did he have with Eva? Because Dante states that 1. he's got a dysfunctional family, 2. he has no father, and 3. he simply doesn't like Vergil, without needing a reason to explain his hate. All that screams out negativity, and children learn to interact with others by emulating the interaction between mom and dad. If the parents are able to settle their differences in a civilised way, the children will learn to do the same with one another, even if they hate each other's guts. And we all know Vergil and Dante's interaction is anything BUT civilised. The standard of family life is set through the relationship between the parents. Dante clearly does not come from a happy home, so Eva and Sparda couldn't have been a perfect match. What do you guys think?