The DT Runes in DMC1

[berto]

A while back, years, really, Moseslmpg posted his research into the Devil Trigger Runes in DMC1. Well, my computer crashed and I didn't back them up so does anyone have them? I tried contacting him here but he hasn't responded and the original links are long dead.

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PS: Trying to figuere them out myself I found that they might be from the Siddham alphabet, known in Japan as Bonji, which are part of an ancient Indian alphabet, Sanskrit, used to create wards and talismans in esoteric Buddhism. In this case I'd guess these characters would be used to imply exorcism but really Moe would know more than I.

Another game that has similar use of Bonji was the Fatal Frame series where they are inscribed into the camera (camera obscura) to trap ghosts.

 

[berto]

No one? Did no one save that little jewel?

 

[Gel]

Did you already checked this thread? ( I bet you already did, but...)
Anyway there it is:

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[Dante's Stalker]

I miss moseslmpg. And vampi. Gosh those two were like an Event. If you guys are reading this, COME BACK!!!!! D: You're my only true friends! ....no not really, but y'know, I love you guys big time <3
...
and yes that is all I can contribute, sorry. I could try catch them on Skype and see if he's willing to share a current link to all of his work? I mean...that is, if I can reach them on Skype. Ever since MSN merged....it's all gone to ****.

-edit-
Hang on: here ya go:

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and also

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He posted links to where you can find his work in those threads as he's removed them from here given some.....past incidents.

Strolling through the fanfiction board - when did it get to 35 pages? I'm sure last time I went for a wander it was only something like 28 pages?
Oh. Man. I was such a spammer in that board. Shameful. If only I could go back in time and slap myself silly.

 

[berto]

Did you already checked this thread? ( I bet you already did, but...)
Anyway there it is:

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Very first place I looked. All the links are megaupload and therefore gone.

-edit-
Hang on: here ya go:

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and also

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He posted links to where you can find his work in those threads as he's removed them from here given some.....past incidents.

Hang on. Is this where I can reach him or where I can find his research, 'cause one link if for DL and the other is for FF.net and DL is gone and FF is just stories.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

Hang on. Is this where I can reach him or where I can find his research, 'cause one link if for DL and the other is for FF.net and DL is gone and FF is just stories.

I dunno, you can try PM him on FFN. If you don't hear anything back from him give me a shout, otherwise I'll see if I can get in touch with him.

-edit-
I do believe I run the risk of making myself look like a total idiot by doing so. I can't remember his email.

 

[berto]

I'll do that tomorrow. I'd have to create an account and I really don't think hell see it there since the last activity there is from 2010, the year we made contact.

 

[Gel]

See more of this:

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[berto]

Alrighty, Moe just got back to me and he's ganna pass the documents to me when he finds them. Thank for you're help.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

Alrighty, Moe just got back to me and he's ganna pass the documents to me when he finds them. Thank for you're help.

Lucky fish, why's he ignoring me?

 

[berto]

Couldn't say, but it took him a while to get back t me so maybe he doesn't frequent this place that much anymore.

Anyway, I'll share what I found, too, but according to Moe they are random characters, he confirmed it with Kamiya.

Anyway, this is what I found:

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The first, and last, character is Shia-Jia. It is, if I understand the rules of the language, a mix of two characters.

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6th is 's':

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The 7th character is 'Ph':

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The fifth is 'm':

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The 9th is 'ḹ':

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I think the 3rd one is a blend of two that are ya(

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) and u(

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) so it'd be 'ya'u'. I thought that maybe it was 'ko' or 'mu' but my money is on 'ya'u'


I can't find the rest.


Edit:
Alright, so Moe got back to me with some basic info on the matter. and the most relevant part of that conversation was this:

Also, keep in mid that Bonji is an abugida, like Thai, so each basic character represents a consonant and the default vowel "A." So, none of the characters in the DT runes are just bare consonants like Kh or B. Also, if you see a character that mixes, for instance, Sha and Ka, the end character would be Shka not Shaka. Likewise, the third character is not Yau but Yu. It is a little confusing if you are new to it, but Jayarava explains it well enough I think.

Lastly, if you don't mind me spoiling the fun for you, I'll just lay out what each character is:

Kha Sa Yu O A S'a Pha Sa Lii Kha


Note: S'a means the S has an accent mark over it, making it pronounced as sha in English. I used Lii to write the L with a dot under it and macron/dash over it.

Moe theorizes that in the DMC universe the bonji we see is a demon language, which kinda makes sense since Mudus uses it as well as a re occurring motif.

I wish I still had photoshop so I could edit some images and make a more interesting presentation but for now I'll leave it like this.

 

[Railazel]

Okay, I'm trying to translate the phrase and here's what I'm getting:

Kha means sky

Sa means he/she

Yu means to bind

and... that's it. Once I get to the "O" part, things get hazy. So, from what I can tell, the first part of the phrase would be something like: "Binding him with the sky..."

 

[berto]

Okay, I'm trying to translate the phrase and here's what I'm getting:

Kha means sky

Sa means he/she

Yu means to bind

and... that's it. Once I get to the "O" part, things get hazy. So, from what I can tell, the first part of the phrase would be something like: "Binding him with the sky..."

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Edit:
There should be a note that, according to Moe, our resident occult expert, when he looked in to this he found out that the Siddham actually meant nothing. This was also verefied by the director, Kamiya, himself. If it turns out that you can't figure out what any of it means than don't feel bad.

With that been said, it should be noted that when you get the DT you gain the ability to fly so it might not mean "bind him with the sky..." but rather the last part of that sentence might be about not been bound to the ground anymore.

 

[Gel]

Yeah, I talk with Moses about the meaning of the items we can get during DMC1 and he said not to put too much hope on their meaning, since Kamiya only used them because they were cool.The same way Kamiya loves uses references, call backs about characters and other games, when in true they mean nothing at all, just "the rule of cool".
A bit of me died inside...

 

[berto]

OK, so here is Moe's research and some notes on it.

Alright berto, here you go:

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It isn't the most up to date one, as far as I know, and it certainly isn't definitive, but it is a blast from the past, both good and bad. I know you can't use fonts, but if you pass it on to anyone else, they will need to install the font included in the zip file for stuff to make a little sense.

A lot of what is in there is confusing, even to me, but since it turned out that all the bonji was nonsense, that isn't too much of a surprise.

Another small note: I see that I originally interpreted the first and last characters as Gva rather than Kha. That's because the orthography is a bit off. I'm not sure where they got the bonji from, but whoever did it bent the rules a little.

Anyway, I'll send the other rune files probably over the weekend.

Moses

 

[berto]

Ok. So here is the most up to date on the research Moe did.

OK, I got around to the other rune documents. Keep in mind that these are not the most up to date ones, but like I said, I can't seem to find those, alas.

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All these files are no fonts required, as I, in my infinite wisdom back in the day, thought to take pictures instead of using actual characters and whatnot.

Of note: The Ugaritic document is completely bare of explanation and other examples of the script n DMC3, although I'm sure at one point that I had a more updated version of the document. I don't know if that is my imagination or not though. I may be thinking of my trivia thread on DL.

Also, the Air Hike mandala translation is completely incorrect, although only in this old version of the document. I actually do know the proper translation, meaning, and provenance of the characters in the Air Hike mandala, but I think I will leave it a mystery for now, to give industrious people something to work on. I'll just say, it isn't MShK, it is MShKN (reading left to right). That should be enough of a clue.

Happy hunting, and enjoy,


Moses

So once we get ourselves a talking dog we should really be set to go.


Edit: Moe suggested I posted the link to the site I got the runes from on my first post so here you go:

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You'll find all 3 on the gallery under preparations.

And keep an eye out for Super Devil Bros.

 

[Railazel]

Edit:
There should be a note that, according to Moe, our resident occult expert, when he looked in to this he found out that the Siddham actually meant nothing. This was also verefied by the director, Kamiya, himself. If it turns out that you can't figure out what any of it means than don't feel bad.

With that been said, it should be noted that when you get the DT you gain the ability to fly so it might not mean "bind him with the sky..." but rather the last part of that sentence might be about not been bound to the ground anymore.

Well Kamiya must have a blessing from the Gods of Coincidence because the more interpret the phrase, the more it seems like some sort of prayer for being a part of the sky.

This is a really, really basic translation but it goes something like: "Bind him to the sky, Amen. He absorbs and clings to the sky."

I doubt this was intentional but it is pretty awesome if my translation is anything near correct. Anywho, this has gotten me intrigued.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

And at first, I thought they were Japanese Kanji...

 

[berto]

And at first, I thought they were Japanese Kanji...

At first I thought it was Tibetan.


Here is another example of it in Fatal Frame.

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You can find many more examples of this in other Japanese media like film and manga. There are quite a few instances of it's use all over the place. It seems like it holds mystic value for certain parts of Asia, not just Japan.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

I will see to that, berto!