Stan Lee defends Marvel making "Another White Spider-Man"

[Stylish Nero]

Doesn't matter fail or not, readers for decades are simply asking for an attempt at not phoning in diversity or female equality & Marvel/DC taking it a little more seriously & not just half handed effort of shoehorning it to appear diverse.

People aren't fully understanding the issue.
It's not this If a black Spiderman bothers you, if changing a superheroes race/gender bothers you

It's this if multiple versions of the same character bothers you when those in the industry call it innovative, creative, revolutionary, a huge step forward in diversity when it's done merely to offset any awkward debates.

When at it's core, fact of the matter is it's nothing but These are the same guys who will reboot an entire universe and retell the same stories but with some alterations.

And for awhile now there people who are getting tired of 50shades of Hulk & just want something new.

@Stylish Nero
Forget how well it sells, forget how much it's pushed by Marvel or DC.
What's so wrong about people wanting entirely new characters of diversity instead of another quick fix rebooted Spiderman etc turned a different race/gender done merely to offset any awkward debates?

You're the one not getting my point.

I'm not arguing against you or even for Marvel and DC. If anything I'm in your favor and against modern day Marvel/DC.

There is nothing wrong about asking people for new stuff. You're just asking it from the wrong people (Marvel/DC). These 2 have establish a system that has been heavily ingrained in the mainstreams western comic book culture and its been that way for decades. Its practically a tradition for these guys. Its too safe and it makes them money because their fans will buy almost anything they push out....then they complain about it..and then they try to fix it and then even more people complain about the changes.

If you want new stuff just look to other comic books from around the world whether it be the US, various European comics, Japanese manga, Korean mahwa, and more. You'll find even better, meaningful, original, and more worthwhile stories than that modern Marvel/DC will ever deliver in the see able future. There are diversity in comic books a lot more than people give it credit (even in the superhero genre). These Tumblr bitches and people who is begging for diversity, change, and new **** just aren't looking and is begging Marvel/DC because they're the biggest companies in the market. Its THEIR fault for going to these bigger companies and more bigger series who crank out the same crap, same retelling, same reboot, same hero but with a vagina now or a darker skin tone, than supporting the smaller and more independent artists, writers, and studios who do deliver the new material and diversity they've been asking for.

As for an example, if black people want better representations of black people in comics look to and support black comic artists (yes they exist and there are quite a bit of them more than you think) and/or comics/series starring black protagonists like say Saga, Spawn, Afro Samurai, Boondocks, etc. This also applies to other races and social groups (women, asians, arabs, etc) or comics that just promotes more diversity like say Walking Dead. Then these series will become really popular and other people like Marvel, DC, and more will see "Hey new original stories starring non-white protagonists do sell. We should get on that then."

And it can work like The Boondocks is very critically acclaimed and liked by all types of people. It even got its own animated TV series that was created by a South Korean and in later seasons with help of a Japanese animation studio and they worked real close with Aaron and the American writers and voices to produce a high quality animated TV series that can rival some of the best anime in terms of animation and action. Not only that it is rather popular in Japan.

 

[Morgan]

So, okay, I've read the replies on here, and I've read the article. The article is poorly written and refers to Miles Morales for most of it when the issue is not that, so here goes,

are people upset because there's Another White Spider Man as in "Why is Peter Parker white"? or are people upset because Another White Spider Man is "We're tired of the focus on Peter Parker who happens to be white, why don't we get Miles Morales or some other Spider-Man who happens to not be white"?

Stan Lee's defense works for the former, although with race relations in the US currently it would be interesting to explore "Peter Parker, the [black] straight-A student whose [black] uncle is shot by a robber, and the police don't try hard enough to find the murderer responsible. Peter then becomes a vigilante, earning the ire of the media because he works outside of the law and is characterized as a thug and a criminal just because he's not a cop or doing things by the book". Stan's defense doesn't make sense for the latter, because the latter has to do with Miles Morales and Miles also reflects a reality in race relations in that white kids today are still telling their non-white friends that they cant be certain heroes during pretendy funtimes because that superhero isn't the kid's color, and if it isn't kids reinforcing it, it's adults. (See: a three year old black girl was ridiculed for cosplaying Elsa; the woman scolding her said something along the lines of 'Queen Elsa isn't black' and 'black is ugly'.)

Keeping the focus on Peter, though, we've had Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield do Peter Parker and now this Tom Holland guy is Peter too? That's too much Peter in one decade, in my opinion. Seeing the same general guy in every iteration as if there aren't any other versions of the character in existence is kind of boring, especially when the superhero is more of a mantle/legacy title than necessarily needing to be a specific person.

Using DC properties as an example, there are multiple Flashes, Wally West is the mixed-race one (as of New52). There are multiple Green Lanterns, John Stewart is the black one. There are multiple Supermen, John Henry Irons is the 'Steel' iteration of him. But if every comic movie or show focuses on just Barry Allen, on just Hal Jordan, on just Kal-El (while I'm here, Kal comes from a planet of aliens who gain superpowers under a yellow sun, does he have to look like a white man even if he does land in Kansas? Is Kansas that homogenously white? Can't he land someplace else like he did in Red Son?) it's an admission from them that "sorry, we blew our creative loads on rebooting these guys eleventy billion times instead of giving other characters the limelight or (in case of the trite argument of "but the other characters are boring") making them interesting to watch and buy comics for"

I side-eye that the same way I side-eye the yaoi fangirls who can break canon to ship two guys together when the two are mortal enemies or only looked at each other for two seconds, but couldn't support the female characters in the show because "they're too boring/bland". Make them interesting. You're a writer. That's what you should be doing!

[as an aside: Also I can't help but note that the whole "make new characters!" argument only pops up when there's a different ethnicity or sex coming to take the mantle of an established hero. "Falcon is Captain America!? Those damn SJWs! Why not just leave him as his own character?" "A woman is now Thor? Damn feminists! Why not just make a new character?" It sounds like something is being stolen from the characters when comics work on a rolling timeline and nothing about Captain America really necessitates he be white, only that he represent America, and a black person is no less qualified to represent America. Nothing about Thor's powers necessitate that whoever wields it be a man, only that they be worthy. A woman is no less worthy of wielding Thor's power (or lifting Mjolnir) just because they're not a man. Even a HORSE used to be Thor!]

 

[Lain]

I agree that we've had enough Peter Parker for one decade.
I would totally be up Miles Morales or someone else to take up the mask. Hell, they could even have Peter Parker in the origin story pass the title on to ease non-comic book fans in.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I agree that we've had enough Peter Parker for one decade.
I would totally be up Miles Morales or someone else to take up the mask. Hell, they could even have Peter Parker in the origin story pass the title on to ease non-comic book fans in.

I have nothing against Miles being the next Spiderman its how they went about it that I freaking hate.

So, okay, I've read the replies on here, and I've read the article. The article is poorly written and refers to Miles Morales for most of it when the issue is not that, so here goes,

are people upset because there's Another White Spider Man as in "Why is Peter Parker white"? or are people upset because Another White Spider Man is "We're tired of the focus on Peter Parker who happens to be white, why don't we get Miles Morales or some other Spider-Man who happens to not be white"?

Stan Lee's defense works for the former, although with race relations in the US currently it would be interesting to explore "Peter Parker, the [black] straight-A student whose [black] uncle is shot by a robber, and the police don't try hard enough to find the murderer responsible. Peter then becomes a vigilante, earning the ire of the media because he works outside of the law and is characterized as a thug and a criminal just because he's not a cop or doing things by the book". Stan's defense doesn't make sense for the latter, because the latter has to do with Miles Morales and Miles also reflects a reality in race relations in that white kids today are still telling their non-white friends that they cant be certain heroes during pretendy funtimes because that superhero isn't the kid's color, and if it isn't kids reinforcing it, it's adults. (See: a three year old black girl was ridiculed for cosplaying Elsa; the woman scolding her said something along the lines of 'Queen Elsa isn't black' and 'black is ugly'.)

Keeping the focus on Peter, though, we've had Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield do Peter Parker and now this Tom Holland guy is Peter too? That's too much Peter in one decade, in my opinion. Seeing the same general guy in every iteration as if there aren't any other versions of the character in existence is kind of boring, especially when the superhero is more of a mantle/legacy title than necessarily needing to be a specific person.

Using DC properties as an example, there are multiple Flashes, Wally West is the mixed-race one (as of New52). There are multiple Green Lanterns, John Stewart is the black one. There are multiple Supermen, John Henry Irons is the 'Steel' iteration of him. But if every comic movie or show focuses on just Barry Allen, on just Hal Jordan, on just Kal-El (while I'm here, Kal comes from a planet of aliens who gain superpowers under a yellow sun, does he have to look like a white man even if he does land in Kansas? Is Kansas that homogenously white? Can't he land someplace else like he did in Red Son?) it's an admission from them that "sorry, we blew our creative loads on rebooting these guys eleventy billion times instead of giving other characters the limelight or (in case of the trite argument of "but the other characters are boring") making them interesting to watch and buy comics for"

I side-eye that the same way I side-eye the yaoi fangirls who can break canon to ship two guys together when the two are mortal enemies or only looked at each other for two seconds, but couldn't support the female characters in the show because "they're too boring/bland". Make them interesting. You're a writer. That's what you should be doing!

[as an aside: Also I can't help but note that the whole "make new characters!" argument only pops up when there's a different ethnicity or sex coming to take the mantle of an established hero. "Falcon is Captain America!? Those damn SJWs! Why not just leave him as his own character?" "A woman is now Thor? Damn feminists! Why not just make a new character?" It sounds like something is being stolen from the characters when comics work on a rolling timeline and nothing about Captain America really necessitates he be white, only that he represent America, and a black person is no less qualified to represent America. Nothing about Thor's powers necessitate that whoever wields it be a man, only that they be worthy. A woman is no less worthy of wielding Thor's power (or lifting Mjolnir) just because they're not a man. Even a HORSE used to be Thor!]

As for Tom being Peter/Spiderman well its because Spiderman will appear in the upcoming Captain America: Civil War movie which is based off of the Civil War arc in the comics and Miles wasn't a thing at that point. On the bright side....

Spoiler: Captain America's Fate

Captain America dies in the Civil War arc and is replaced by Falcon/Sam Wilson as the new Captain America and the fact that this movie is Chris Evans final Marvel movie too. So in phase 4(???) Anthony Mackie might get to play Captain America.

 

[Chancey289]

I just want Peter Parker because I'm a Peter Parker fan. Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time and I grew up with Peter. Miles Morales is actually not a bad character whatsoever, it's just when it comes to the one true Spider-Man, that is and always will be Peter. The geeky high school kid who got bit by a radioactive spider and became the greatest superhero ever.

I saw someone mention Green Lantern and you know, John Stewart is best Green Lantern. Like, seriously. Eff Hal Jordan. John Stewart all day err day.

Spoiler: Captain America's Fate

Captain America dies in the Civil War arc and is replaced by Falcon/Sam Wilson as the new Captain America and the fact that this movie is Chris Evans final Marvel movie too. So in phase 4(???) Anthony Mackie might get to play Captain America.

Bucky became Captain America after Civil War. Sam Wilson didn't get his shot until later, and I'll be totally fine with that if they decide to get Anthony Mackie because for one, he made Falcon cool, and I prefer Bucky to do his Winter Soldier thing. Falcon as Cap is fine. You'd be pretty hard pressed to find anyone better than Sam.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Chancey289: Spider-Man is my favourite superhero also. So I can see why you might feel strongly about Peter Parker being Spider-Man, for you.

The more that I think about it though, from what others have said - I honestly wouldn't mind if they made a movie with a different character behind the Spidey mask that wasn't Peter Parker.

I see no reasons as to why it couldn't be done in film.

 

[Chancey289]

@Chancey289: Spider-Man is my favourite superhero also. So I can see why you might feel strongly about Peter Parker being Spider-Man, for you.

The more that I think about it though, from what others have said - I honestly wouldn't mind if they made a movie with a different character behind the Spidey mask that wasn't Peter Parker.

I see no reasons as to why it couldn't be done in film.

Miles Morales getting his shot eventually, sure. Just Spidey is finally coming to the MCU, I want that to be Peter Parker and it looks like it will be because Tom Holland has been cast. Not sure who that guy is but I trust Marvel's judgement.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Chancey289: I completely see where you're coming from. I was just getting at the point that they could just go with both at the same time, Parker and Morales. I'm sure that pleases both sides.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I just want Peter Parker because I'm a Peter Parker fan. Spider-Man is my favorite superhero of all time and I grew up with Peter. Miles Morales is actually not a bad character whatsoever, it's just when it comes to the one true Spider-Man, that is and always will be Peter. The geeky high school kid who got bit by a radioactive spider and became the greatest superhero ever.

I saw someone mention Green Lantern and you know, John Stewart is best Green Lantern. Like, seriously. Eff Hal Jordan. John Stewart all day err day.


Bucky became Captain America after Civil War. Sam Wilson didn't get his shot until later, and I'll be totally fine with that if they decide to get Anthony Mackie because for one, he made Falcon cool, and I prefer Bucky to do his Winter Soldier thing. Falcon as Cap is fine. You'd be pretty hard pressed to find anyone better than Sam.

Same here about Peter. He is not my favorite superhero of all time (that spot goes to either Static Shock, Iron Man, or Blade) but he is in my top 5 along side Captain America or Red Hood.

As for who will play Captain after Chris Evans I will say having Sam (Anthony) makes more sense in the current MCU story since Bucky is pretty much rogue at this point and I doubt America and SHIELD will just allow someone who not so long ago aided Hydra in taking over the world even if he was brainwashed, Roger's close friend or not. Plus its America, having a black guy play Captain AMERICA, the hero that is literally supposed to represent America, will allow America to dangle their overly self progressive cock over the countries in an attempt to hide the fact that America is still one of the more racists countries out there and racism, corruption, and prejudice is a still rampant problem in the USA. But hey if they choose Bucky and have it make sense then I'm game. I do prefer Bucky/Winter Soldier more over Falcon.

Now as for the Green Lantern. Yeah **** Hal! The man sucked all degrees of ass. John and the other guy were much better heroes and characters than that walking turd. Its a shame DC has only been pushing Hal over the others especially John as of late. I would rather have a new Green Lantern than see Hal's bitchass face again.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

This isn't a race issue, it's an artistic freedom issue.

I honestly just believe the racism whistle-blowers are so tired of idols in the media being white, they'll try to change it any way they can. It's true, Spider-Man and the others are from an age when racism was real both socially and in industry. Thing is, it's different now. Go on, bark at me about how race rights aren't 100% fixed, I don't care. I'd bet quit a lot of money Marvel hires in accordance with equal-opportunity laws. Enough bullshit. If the creator of Spider-Man, be it because he's racist or not, made Spider-Man white, then Spider-Man is forever white unless the artist changes their mind. We as consumers love these characters and stories, and sometimes we mistake the fact that we support their success to mean we get a say in how its made. At the end of the day, we shouldn't. A big part of why it was so great in the first place to us is because it was so apart from our lives and way of thinking.

The day consumers get to decide what an artist does is the day art dies. Whoever it was that said to support different artists if you don't like it hit the nail on the head.

I'd also like to add I found the article very subjective and unprofessional. If it were subject to press laws, the writer would have been dragged to court and slapped with 50 shades of libel lawsuits. Absolutely disgraceful.

 

[V's patron]

I rather just have Marvel push some minority characters forward in the films and keeping Spidey on a standby basis; he's the Call of Duty/AC of Marvel comics, you can afford to keep him on the backburner as he'll sell regardless so you could take a chance on someone else.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I rather just have Marvel push some minority characters forward in the films and keeping Spidey on a standby basis; he's the Call of Duty/AC of Marvel comics, you can afford to keep him on the backburner as he'll sell regardless so you could take a chance on someone else.

I wish DC could follow suit with Batman but as far as movies goes DC/Marvel need Bruce/Peter for the cinematic universes they're trying to build.

Marvel and DC actually do have a ton of diversity in their comics already even if 30% are gender/racial bend versions of white heroes. Movies...not so much or as much but since as of now since the movies are in the early phases and are focusing on the key characters (Marvel Phase 3 will be fixing that with the Captain Marvel and Black Panther movie as well as DC's WonderWoman, Cyborg, and maybe Green Lantern movie if Edris can convince them to use him).

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@VampireWicked: I see what you mean. But don't the comic books do that also? By that I mean create these alternate universes with different versions of the same hero? Why in your opinion would it not work for film? And this is just me wanting your opinion, not starting an argument or anything.

 

[berto]

I don't know, man. This whole 'no more white superheroes' thing that's going on seems to me like it's pushing on racist towards white men. I know that they were the prominent image of the superhero for a while to the point that no one else was one and this is a backlash of that extraneously long era but it's gotten to the point where if your superhero is a white dude people want to change it because he's a racist depiction now. What kind of sence does that make?

 

[Demi-fiend]

None.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

None.

lol That was a very blunt, straightforward answer.

 

[V's patron]

I wish DC could follow suit with Batman but as far as movies goes DC/Marvel need Bruce/Peter for the cinematic universes they're trying to build.

Marvel and DC actually do have a ton of diversity in their comics already even if 30% are gender/racial bend versions of white heroes. Movies...not so much or as much but since as of now since the movies are in the early phases and are focusing on the key characters (Marvel Phase 3 will be fixing that with the Captain Marvel and Black Panther movie as well as DC's WonderWoman, Cyborg, and maybe Green Lantern movie if Edris can convince them to use him).

To me, its less a question of ''need" and more a question of "want" because we have seen stories that do buck the trends as we've had cartoons where Batman doesn't fight the joker with robin at his side and the JL cartoons we're had Wally West rub elbows with John Stewart plus we have Cyborg as a JLeaguer (at the expense of his TT history ) as well as Smallville had Green Arrow as Supes's best bud instead of Bats (more due to rights)

Hell for 15 odd years we've had different characters uphold the mantles of Flash, GL, Green Arrow and even in the movies the mantles of Antman/Wasp are held by successors rather than the original Avengers so the fact that we have Bruce/Pete comes down to more the characters they want to use rather than characters they need/have to use.

EDIT- Im not saying they shouldn't use them or there aren't stories to tell with them. I like them as much as other fans, i just would like people to acknowledge marvel/DC has the options to push forward female/ethnic/LGBTQA leads, just they haven't chosen to yet.

So i think people don't necessarily want Marvel to race-bend Spiderman, just for them to not wait till they exhaust every single american white straight lead before moving on to the others.

Just signals get crossed and the loudest voices in any fan-base arent necesarily the kindest or the logical.