Sales Figures--DmC--Worth the reboot?

[KtWtWiS43]

Someone in Silconera brought an interesting point about why it didn't sell so well in Japan. He said something like the game not attracting any girl gamers, and that could be the reason why DMC4 sold a lot in its premiere because of the "prett boys" Dante and Nero, less blood and gore, and Kobayashi was part of it, and I heard he attracts A LOT of gamers in Japan.

But the hell with them, right? At least DmC sold almost 500,000 copies in its premiere week.

Yeah Silconera mentions the game's conception being made to market to new fans. I find it interesting that while it's stirred controversy in existing fans, sales weren't strong enough to suggest new fans. Or it could be that enough old fans felt betrayed by Capcom and didn't throw in their money. Both are feasible. Either way, it seems Capcom might've miscalculated.

As for DMC4, DMC3's excellence probably didnt hurt expectations for DMC4, but Nero was made to appeal to a different fanbase. That was smart at least and didn't divide the fanbase as radically as the reboot has. Even though some would argue that Nero's appearance is simply pandering to a new fanbase, I would agree, I can't knock the decision too much because I do legitamately like Nero as a character. Kind of the Raiden to Dante's Solid Snake (For all you Metal Gear fans). What I don't like is Capcom changing the tone and the feel of DMC4 and cramping the level design to make a quick buck. So although Nero is a symptom of Capcom's greed, DmC may be Capcom's greed incarnate. Which is truly a loss because the reboot has some really excellent ideas.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Well, DmC wasn't made for the Japanese gamers, but to attract the western audience, right? So expecting sales to be high in Japan would be a wrong assumption. However, seeing as the game has still sold in Japan tells me that at least there are Japanese gamers who still find DmC worth the money. And that's a good thing. ^^

It was marketed towards a Western fanbase, but is it really a smart marketing move to alienate all the territories in which your game sold fantastically, in hopes of getting more of a Western fansbase? They've lost so much money compared to DMC4. DmC didn't even break the Top 20 for X-BOX, which NT admitted the game was designed for and looks/plays better on. Capcom should've thought this one through a little more. They listen to their money, we'll see what happens when total sales figures roll in.

 

[Zato-OW]

They seem to enjoy ignoring the fact that the global economy is in a different place than when DMC4 came out as well...

True but lets be honest, I think the video game industry is amazingly rich and not hurting at all. Just look back at the records being broken for certain titles. If I recall, Diablo 3 was the highest selling PC game in the history of PC games. This was just last year. Obviously COD is still selling massive amount of units. Even though DMC4 was about 5 years ago, I don't think that is economy being bad for the sells for this game, maybe a small dent but nothing major.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/28/dmc-l...ter-one-week-as-black-ops-ii-returns-3369615/

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Why do people keep saying DmC sells badly when compared to DMC4 though they could be saying that it has topped the UK and Japan sale lists? Even in my country DmC jumped instantly in the top ten lists after couple of days being on sale.

The most obvious reason is that it's only considered a success if it succeeds DMC4 on a monetary level as well. The top 10 doesn't mean much if each game sold 5 units and DmC sold 14 for example? Top Lists aren't usually a completely trustworthy indicator of sales.

 

[ZeroLove]

It was marketed towards a Western fanbase, but is it really a smart marketing move to alienate all the territories in which your game sold fantastically, in hopes of getting more of a Western fansbase? They've lost so much money compared to DMC4. DmC didn't even break the Top 20 for X-BOX, which NT admitted the game was designed for and looks/plays better on. Capcom should've thought this one through a little more. They listen to their money, we'll see what happens when total sales figures roll in.

Now, here's a question... If Capcom really just did this for the money, then they would probably tend more to the Japanese fanbase, don't you think? I mean, the bigger the crowd gets happy, the more money rolls in. Capcom knew from the start that DmC was a risky move, but they went through with it. Why go through all that trouble just for the money? As is shown, the sales aren't all that good. And because of that, I really don't think DmC was made for the sake of money.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

The simple fact is that the DMC4 and DmC sales numbers are not a fair comparison. 2008 and 2013 are two very different worlds economically, hell, 2008 and 2009 are radically different in terms of the global economy. DmC will never sell as many copies as DMC4 for several reasons. DMC4 rode on the hype of DMC3, being a the first next gen entry into the series, being the first multiplatform DMC game, Plenty of marketing from Capcom, and a sparse hack&slash gaming market. It had almost everything going for it.

DmC rides on a weak global economy and that alone guarantee's it wont sale as much as DMC4, tons of hate and controversy surrounding the game, next to no marketing, and a crowded field of new hack&slash games. Now this all has nothing to do with which is a better game but we do need to put this in perspective. Hack&slash games are already a niche market in the gaming community and we have more options in it then we did in 2008. At this point in the game world, only games like Call of Duty and Halo can rack up truly large numbers anymore. Even games that sale well over a million copies are considered wasted investments or just moderate successes or just outright failures now by many game publishers.

All things considered, DmC is actually doing rather well with the hand it was dealt, better than I expected

Monetary gains are actually calculated to scale for inflation, and DmC has had more than it's fair share of market capaigns, so it's not as if no one knew about it when considering "the lengthy development time, frequent changes in design for each development trailer, DmC Dante's inclusion in PlayStation All Stars," hell even trailers for the game played in movie theaters, etc. It is sad how FPS are the games that seem to make the most money, but as for DmC, it had plenty of marketing and Capcom threw everything behind it. All that's left now is for the game to preform well on its own merits.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Now, here's a question... If Capcom really just did this for the money, then they would probably tend more to the Japanese fanbase, don't you think? I mean, the bigger the crowd gets happy, the more money rolls in. Capcom knew from the start that DmC was a risky move, but they went through with it. Why go through all that trouble just for the money? As is shown, the sales aren't all that good. And because of that, I really don't think DmC was made for the sake of money.

Not at all actually. It's clear that the West are the leaders in terms of cinema and games like Halo and Call of Duty. DmC is the result of Capcom pandering to Western culture and Western ideas, and Western music that's popular like hard rock and dubstep. It's all Capcom trying to appeal to the Western market. Clearly, the idea for Capcom was to go where they think the money was instead of being true to themselves and making a game without the desire for money. Look at Resident Evil 6. Same thing happened. Even DMC4 suffered because of this. It was made to appeal to a Western audience and failed. People don't want games pandered to a geographical area.

 

[Zato-OW]

Now, here's a question... If Capcom really just did this for the money, then they would probably tend more to the Japanese fanbase, don't you think? I mean, the bigger the crowd gets happy, the more money rolls in. Capcom knew from the start that DmC was a risky move, but they went through with it. Why go through all that trouble just for the money? As is shown, the sales aren't all that good. And because of that, I really don't think DmC was made for the sake of money.

Because Capcom tried to cater to a wider audience. This is what they were going for hence why the game play was dumbed down compared to the last 2 DMC games. They did the same thing with the MvC series and any fighting series they have. The marketing team for Capcom is very very horrible. Look how they push simple DLC like skins for an example. Something could have easily been in the full retail game but they chose to put it aside to make people pay for it. I can understand projects that are not finished that will be released as side DLC later on but if you release a game and already have content that is finished and not include it into the game then that just goes to show what type of Company we are dealing with. Like I said, BP and the Vergil DLC(may not be done) so I can understand if they didn't put it in the retail game. But lets be honest here, do we really believe those DLC's are not finished at this very moment? Capcom lied before with the DLC in SFxTK until someone hacked the game to see that the characters were already on the disk. They just have complete idiots for their marketing team.

 

[Kishido]

I just hope that Capcom won't decide against a DmC 2... I just love the whole setting!
If they will say NO to it... than yeah "Antis" be sure DMC in general will be gone for a long long time or even will get the Megaman treatement, where people are waiting for years now...
Capcom won't magically pull out a DMC5 or some stuff... Nor I'm interested in Nero and the old setting anymore.

Personally only 1 and 3 were amazing in story AND combat. 2 should have never happened and 4 was just DMC3 with better graphic but way less game cuz of the backtracking + a really boring character named Nero, who was the first try of Capcom to change the series... And as we know, they weren't happy with it after all.
But that's off topic

What I find more funny... People are stilly screaming for Kamiya, who more or less just did DMC1, instead of Itsuno... the man who did DMC3 and DMC4 and even have overseen this game.
Of course there is stuff you can improve in the future, but some people don't give the game a chance to let it evolve with future games...
Seriously just look how much DMC3 was an improvement to 2... So just give this game a chance to live and don't compare it to a game who had 4 games and over 7 years to evolve with the time

 

[Kishido]

BTW from Siliconera as well

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/01/23/this-week-in-sales-dmc-devil-may-cry/

There are probably a couple of reasons for the difference in sales. For starters, Devil May Cry 4 had a PlayStation 3 hardware bundle, which DmC did not. Additionally, Devil May Cry 4 also had the luxury of being the first game in the series that was being developed for a new generation of consoles. Finally, DmC Devil May Cry is targeted at the western market, which likely played a role in the game’s Japanese sales as well.

Read more at ​

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Maybe DmC is attracting people in mighty fine; there is a possibility that DMC5 woudl've sold even less. Nowadays people buy games differently than in the past, and so on. Who knows.

If it was attracting a good amount, it'd probably be reflected in sales. Which is odd that it wouldn't be, considering the massive marketing campaign DmC got from Capcom. But all we can do at this point is speculate until they release the total sales information. In my opinion there's just too much bad blood between the pre-existing fans, and not enough that's starkly original about the reboot to draw in as many new players as they might've expected. Either side of the board, Capcom can't seem to please anybody with this game.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

Learning it is pretty easy, the principles and stuff. Executing it, following it, and pretty much everything else in real-world economics is freaking difficult. It's kind of funny, economics and politics. Looks so easy, but you place yourself in their places and try fixing everything. Well . . . Welcome to something worse than Hell.

So even though we can compare sales figures, comparing them with the differences in society back then is a bit more difficult.

Well it isn't as hard as you think. In the same way that sales for movie tickets (for example) are adjusted for inflation to determine the best selling movie of all time, one would have to adjust for inflation to determine gross profit in game sales as well. Although I don't think that in the space of the 5-ish years since DMC4's release that economic factors had a big influence on the videogame industry

 

[KtWtWiS43]

I just hope that Capcom won't decide against a DmC 2... I just love the whole setting!
If they will say NO to it... than yeah "Antis" be sure DMC in general will be gone for a long long time or even will get the Megaman treatement, where people are waiting for years now...
Capcom won't magically pull out a DMC5 or some stuff... Nor I'm interested in Nero and the old setting anymore.

Personally only 1 and 3 were amazing in story AND combat. 2 should have never happened and 4 was just DMC3 with better graphic but way less game cuz of the backtracking + a really boring character named Nero, who was the first try of Capcom to change the series... And as we know, they weren't happy with it after all.
But that's off topic

What I find more funny... People are stilly screaming for Kamiya, who more or less just did DMC1, instead of Itsuno... the man who did DMC3 and DMC4 and even have overseen this game.
Of course there is stuff you can improve in the future, but some people don't give the game a chance to let it evolve with future games...
Seriously just look how much DMC3 was an improvement to 2... So just give this game a chance to live and don't compare it to a game who had 4 games and over 7 years to evolve with the time

I agree with alot you're saying. 1 and 3 were incredible, and from two different teams no less! Alot of things that form the core of the series for me come from those two games. 2 was in fact directed by Itsuno, and we can see his first outing yielded the worst game in the series, which taught Capcom that straight to DVD games aren't going to please anybody. 4 suffers from Capcom lightening the tone, cramping level design and story, and introducing another protagonist. To amend that last bit, 4 does include playable Dante missions and arguably, it was a damn impressive feat to accomplish the creation of two different fighting styles and make them unique and fun in their own way, and yet make them accessible for the hardcore players to execute some of the most brilliant mayhem I've ever seen. In that way I have a hard time knocking Nero, even though I understand that he comes from the same place in Capcom which DMC2 and the DmC reboot came from.

That said, people "still scream for Kamiya" because he created not only the Devil May Cry series and it's best installment, let alone the hack n' slash genre for that matter, but his innovative ideas continue to breathe fresh life into every game he comes out with. Bayonetta, Okami, and Viewtiful Joe for example. At the end of the day, Itsuno is a great director, but he had his chance to "to let it evolve with future games," as you say. Let's not forget that DMC2, DMC3, and DMC4 were all made under his watch as director. Including the reboot as a supervisor. Kamiya, the beloved series creator never had a chance to evolve his series, as it was stolen from him by Capcom. And considering every other release Kamiya has done is basically gold (to the point where it's legitamately common to hear DmC compared competitively to Bayonetta) I think most gamers believe that Kamiya clearly knows what he's doing and should've gotten a chance to advance his own series in a natural way. Most of gamer's complaints about the old series being inconsistent stem from cutting out Kamiya anyway. Reboots aren't going to fix the series. Maybe it's time to look to Kamiya?

 

[Ether0]

That said, people "still scream for Kamiya" because he created not only the Devil May Cry series and it's best installment, let alone the hack n' slash genre for that matter, but his innovative ideas continue to breathe fresh life into every game he comes out with. Bayonetta, Okami, and Viewtiful Joe for example. At the end of the day, Itsuno is a great director, but he had his chance to "to let it evolve with future games," as you say. Let's not forget that DMC2, DMC3, and DMC4 were all made under his watch as director. Including the reboot as a supervisor. Kamiya, the beloved series creator never had a chance to evolve his series, as it was stolen from him by Capcom. And considering every other release Kamiya has done is basically gold (to the point where it's legitamately common to hear DmC compared competitively to Bayonetta) I think most gamers believe that Kamiya clearly knows what he's doing and should've gotten a chance to advance his own series in a natural way. Most of gamer's complaints about the old series being inconsistent stem from cutting out Kamiya anyway. Reboots aren't going to fix the series. Maybe it's time to look to Kamiya?

I would love for Kamiya to get another shot at the series he created, I doubt it will ever happen considering the bad blood between him and Capcom, and also the fact that a lot of his recent games have not been very big in the sales department. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff he has been a part of but it seems to only cater to a niche market. I don't see why Capcom would even look to him to make them a profitable game considering the Okami games, and Vewitiful Joe, all great games that did not sale to well. Even Bayonetta, one of the best hack&slash games of all time would be dead if Nintendo did pick it up and make it a console exclusive(a move I think is even more absurd considering the Wii U has an even smaller install base than PS3 and Xbox360 and will likely sale even fewer copies)

I think the clamor for Kamiya is a little like the thought that FFversus13 is going to restore that series. It's highly unlikely a game that has been in development for 7 years and has not seen the light of day in 2-3 will even be a good game and it's not likely Kamiya making a DMC game would automatically restore that series either. The other thing is that we know about all of this because we are super fans, the vast majority would not even care so his name being attached would only stimulate excitement from a small minority that would be meaningless in terms of sales compared to the big market of people who don't give two ****s.

 

[KtWtWiS43]

it's not likely Kamiya making a DMC game would automatically restore that series either. The other thing is that we know about all of this because we are super fans, the vast majority would not even care so his name being attached would only stimulate excitement from a small minority that would be meaningless in terms of sales compared to the big market of people who don't give two ****s.

Yeah I hear you there. My choice of Kamiya stems not only from the fact that I simply do not trust any other developer with the job, but because I feel like it's a step in the right direction. It's impossible to guess whether it'd be enough to save the entire series, or bring in loads of cash for Capcom, but I know it'd be a great game under Kamiya's watch. Of course who knows what's next for the series (probably a DmC2) but if I were to speculate, Kamiya's genius with Capcom's backing would be creative gold.

It's already clear that pandering can only compromise the overall product, as we've seen with DmC and Resident Evil 6. A good game is a good game no matter who makes it. Not to knock the reboot too badly, but I feel like the majority of the development was compromised because of NT trying to guess what the gamers wanted. No wonder DmC is such an amalgamation of random cultural facets. It's the result of a bunch of Europeans hired by a Japanese game company to synthesize what they think Americans think is cool about American culture, and throw it into a game. Why not stick to what you do know devs instead of starting a flame war among your fans? We don't care about all that nonsense, we just want to play something good!

No one cares who Kamiya is, but I gotta say I trust him more than anyone to get the job done. Even if the game isn't as profitable because it's a little different from the norm, or if a developer like Platinum doesn't have the monsterous power of Capcom to market their product. It's sad that they're barely scraping by and have to outsource to WiiU to make another Bayonetta for example, but that'll be one hell of a game, that's for sure. What makes Platinum Games so good is that they have no one telling them what to do and who to market to. Absolute creative freedom, most notably, founded by former Capcom developers. Maybe all this creativity needs is Capcom's financial backing.

Let's not forget that back in the day, Kamiya directed Resident Evil 2 (one of Capcom's biggest hits) and that his creation of Devil May Cry (an initial version of Resident Evil 4) ended up creating the hack n' slash genre. Even when Resident Evil 4 finally came out (introducing the 3rd person over-the-shoulder camera) directed by Shinji Mikami, it was a massive success. Both games have set the standard for modern videogaming by simultaneously introducing the now standard hack n' slash genre and over the shoulder camera and were met with massive critical acclaim. And where did these masters of Capcom's finanical success go? They formed Platinum Games after falling out with Capcom, and we've seen how both series have suffered in their absence. Isn't that the kind of unrestrained creativity that we should champion instead of the American cookie cutter FPS games, or games who try to be like them?

But yeah, I believe your main thesis was that Kamiya wouldn't be the most profitable solution, which I sadly would have to agree. Without the power to push his and his colleagues' collective creativity, their games aren't going to reach the market and get the kind of exposure they need to be as successful as whatever Capcom pushes. But at this point I think we can all agree that it would definitely be the best. Anyone have a WiiU yet? haha

 

[Ether0]

But yeah, I believe your main thesis was that Kamiya wouldn't be the most profitable solution, which I sadly would have to agree. Without the power to push his and his colleagues' collective creativity, their games aren't going to reach the market and get the kind of exposure they need to be as successful as whatever Capcom pushes. But at this point I think we can all agree that it would definitely be the best. Anyone have a WiiU yet? haha

Lol, I know one person who has a Wii U and Bayonetta 2 is not even on his radar since he hates hack&slash games and only plays games like Zelda and Mario. I am sure some will buy it but not enough, but maybe i'm just jealous because I never plan on getting a Wii U and now I can't play Bayonetta.

I agree with you though, Kamiya making another DMC game would likely be awesome and I would be just begging for Capcom to take my money because I trust him to give me a product I will personally love. I just can't see it happening anytime soon, he has too much on his plate at Platinum and finally has a great company that allows him to do exactly what he wants and make the games he wants to make. Why go back to Capcom at all?

I also see what your saying about the Japanese developer having a European developer cater to Americans. I would argue that in Japan's eyes it's the entire Western market they want to reach meaning both Europe and North America since that market is a bigger gaming market than Japan these days. I do find it very annoying though when developers, especially Japanese developers try to pander to American taste because it usually just comes off as goofy or offensive. Games like Persona 3 and 4 which are unabashedly Japanese are always better in my mind and I wish more Japanese developers followed their example.

When they don't we get stuff like Resident Evil 6, a poorly put together hodgepodge of the best western developed shooters and action games that fails to even stand on the same level as it's Western competitors mechanically or stuff like FF13, a game that thought ultra linear corridor gameplay like Call of Duty would somehow make it a big hit.

 

[Freecia]

It was a nice read on all of the replies. I am a casual gamer and nowadays I only play a handful of games that I have been following since my younger years. One of them being Devil May Cry. Personally, I liked the reboot. Or rather, I didn't mind the reboot. It didn't offend me and I certainly don't feel betrayed. I believe Capcom did what they thought was right to give the series a breath of fresh air. By DMC4 it was actually getting a little stale for me other than the cute Nero (and believe me when I say this, that using a pretty boy to draw players, especially female players, works! I'm a very visual person) I do feel that Capcom also made similar move with the Resident evil series. By the end of Resident evil 3 Nemesis/Code Veronica, the gameplay and the feel of the game was getting stale, more of the same. I certainly considered RE4 being a nice change and evolved game. Change is good. I do feel that there may be many players that are upset over just the fact that it's a "reboot." Without at least giving it a try to see the positives and the negatives of the game, they blindly hate on it just because.

There are easily several aspects of the reboot version that attract me. Characters are still amazingly well polished, unlike most European made games (We have Capcom, a Japanese company to thank for as I do personally feel like no one creates characters more beautiful than Japanese). The environment and ambiance of the game was amazing, where I felt like I was on an acid trip most of the time, especially the night club level. For the first time in the series the characters talk like how they would in real life, and that is to use vulgar language instead of keeping it PG-13. That to me are all great changes. My only gripe was the fact that the game was just way too short. I didn't remember any DMC games being this short before....

I'm very interested in finding out exactly how well the reboot is selling in America. I would hate for this series to get maybe another game and just go away completely....

 

[DankestDarkness]

There was no reason for the game to be rebooted the story line is garbage too many cutscenes and just the way it's told is a sad excuse sounds like a bunch of immature kids wrote the dialounge in the game this is the worst DmC game even part 2 is better in my opinion at least they didn't **** up the story like ninja theory and their "legendary" story telling they don't have the resume to even make a DMC game and they just proved it sales suck so if that's not proof enough that this game ain't great then I don't know what more proof ya need

 

[Nerofanheart]

There was no reason for the game to be rebooted the story line is garbage too many cutscenes and just the way it's told is a sad excuse sounds like a bunch of immature kids wrote the dialounge in the game this is the worst DmC game even part 2 is better in my opinion at least they didn't **** up the story like ninja theory and their "legendary" story telling they don't have the resume to even make a DMC game and they just proved it sales suck so if that's not proof enough that this game ain't great then I don't know what more proof ya need

the level design is good but the story and the dialogue must be the worst i have ever seen

 

[btmudd28]

There was no reason for the game to be rebooted the story line is garbage too many cutscenes and just the way it's told is a sad excuse sounds like a bunch of immature kids wrote the dialounge in the game this is the worst DmC game even part 2 is better in my opinion at least they didn't **** up the story like ninja theory and their "legendary" story telling they don't have the resume to even make a DMC game and they just proved it sales suck so if that's not proof enough that this game ain't great then I don't know what more proof ya need

This guy hates, hates, haaaaates periods.

Also, good argument, dude! The dialounge was pretty terrible, huh?









Ass.