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Revise Mundus Boss Fight; My Thoughts.

Macabre said:
Due to the way that the plot and cinematics were developed separately from the gameplay and mechanics by an entirely different team, you can see why the gameplay does such a poor job of complementing the narrative and telling the story concurrently. The way a good game works is that it establishes it's mechanics and then goes about introducing set-pieces and scenarios that require the player to use the skills they've learned in a new context and adapt. The easy way to do this is to keep adding new enemies with unique abilities and behaviours, but then you get the interesting scenarios like in Uncharted 2 where you had to run from Zoran like a frightened kitten after the entire game has had you basically dominate every enemy you encounter, or when DMC3 had Vergil fight alongside you against SpardArkham.

In DmC you never run from any of the bosses in gameplay, so you never feel intimidated or that Dante is the underdog, which is the whole premise of his character. You never play as or fight alongside Vergil, so you never get an impression of how their relationship is strengthening or that Vergil is a powerful warrior to be respected and feared. Without fully using the interactive medium to tell the story NT has neglected the responsibility of every game designer; to advance the medium and push back it's boundaries.

The thing that's especially bizarre is that NT have used the interactive medium to tell their story in the past. In Heaven Sword the very first scene is Nariko fighting an entire army and being hopelessly overwhelmed, and her strength gradually fails her while you play, going from an unstoppable powerhouse into a frail weakling all within the span of the gameplay. It illustrated her power and vulnerability quite artfully.
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I agree it's another missed opportunity by NT, for me it does not detract too dramatically from the game but I can see your point. I would like to know why they made the decision to not have more of what you were talking about as far as bosses and stuff pertaining to Vergil in the game. I highly doubt it was not ever discussed or brainstormed in all the time they spent developing the game. I enjoy the story in the game but can really see it has it's share of issues and could have been better especially when it comes to Vergil which we have discussed before on this forum.

I like this Vergil and for me at least he is not that different in terms of boss battle mechanics than the DMC3 Vergil, but the reason the old Vergil still remains my favorite DMC boss is because they built up the plot around Dante and Vergil's rivalry. Nothing really new but it was effective and I think this game could have spent more time creating that dynamic or even better just making Date and Vergil more of a close brotherly relationship and that would have made that final fight much more epic and dramatic.
 
I'm genuinely happy for you if you got some enjoyment out of the game Ether0, and I'm even more glad that you can see where there are flaws in it. My worry is that those who professionally inform the public of a game's flaws and virtues don't seem to see where this game fell short, and that by being surrounded by yes men NT won't have any reason to change or improve upon what they have already done.

Ruisu said:
Thanks for the video. I can see clearly now, this is no power of dante, you got it wrong. This is in fact the Limbo shockwave that mundus was sending from his tower. You see, the hell gate has the power to manipulate the border between the real world and limbo, so mundus in this scene sends this shockwave that makes an entire section of the city completely merge with limbo. That effect makes objects and scenery as a whole suffer from a "slowmotion", just like during the stages where everything breaks around you but still some debri float in the air. We also know that things in limbo happens at the same time that in the real world and the same works the other way around, so that slowdown effect could not be Dante phasing into limbo.
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...that still doesn't explain why Dante is effected by it and not Vergil (I'm genuinely unsure which way around that should be). Vergil remains in Reality within the car on the cusp of certain death, while Dante gets to run around Limbo freely and avert their imminent destruction. For no reason at all.

It wouldn't have taken much to write them out of this plot hole. They could have had Phineas guide Dante to an artifact hidden inside Bob's prison which would give him a limited capacity to escape Mundas's reality warping powers. They could have even called it The Bangle Of Time as a bit of a callback too, and then have had it dramatically shatter when Mundas strikes Dante at the beginning of their final battle just to make the player crap themselves.
 
Macabre said:
I'm genuinely happy for you if you got some enjoyment out of the game Ether0, and I'm even more glad that you can see where there are flaws in it. My worry is that those who professionally inform the public of a game's flaws and virtues don't seem to see where this game fell short, and that by being surrounded by yes men NT won't have any reason to change or improve upon what they have already done.
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I can actually see that being an issue because most reviews have not mentioned any of the plot issues that bug me personally just the problems with the gameplay. I am hoping that they would get as much fan feedback as possible in preparation for a sequel. This game does have an odd case of having an overwhelming amount of pointless, blind fan hate surrounding it so it would be a little more difficult to decipher the plain old hatred and legitimate critiques of the game. Difficult but not impossible and very much needed.

Hopefully A DmC2 would be more like Uncharted 2 or Assassin's Creed 2 and not a DMC2 or Dragon Age 2, as those two games had solid first outings but the developers worked extremely hard on the sequels and polished nearly every sour point in the game and took tons of feedback from critics and fans alike to make them phenomenal games.
 
I just don't see how so many journalists could miss this many flaws. You don't need to be an obsessive to notice that Ophion juggling is completely overpowered...
 
Macabre said:
I'm genuinely happy for you if you got some enjoyment out of the game
...that still doesn't explain why Dante is effected by it and not Vergil (I'm genuinely unsure which way around that should be). Vergil remains in Reality within the car on the cusp of certain death, while Dante gets to run around Limbo freely and avert their imminent destruction. For no reason at all.

It wouldn't have taken much to write them out of this plot hole. They could have had Phineas guide Dante to an artifact hidden inside Bob's prison which would give him a limited capacity to escape Mundas's reality warping powers. They could have even called it The Bangle Of Time as a bit of a callback too, and then have had it dramatically shatter when Mundas strikes Dante at the beginning of their final battle just to make the player crap themselves.
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Yeah, is still a plot hole. Just a different kind :P
 
Macabre said:
And that this should have been the Game Over sequence:

mundaslapu_zps8c3d1e08.gif
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If THAT was the Game Over Sequence I would sell the game immediately..
 
Macabre said:
The platforming was a massive improvement over the fiddly unintuitive bollocks we've had to put up with in the series so far, but you have to admit that it basically plays itself. There aren't any hazards to evade or use to harm enemies, you just use Ophion whenever the colour-coded blobs appear over bits of scenery and proceed to the next area. It might look nicer than Enslaved, but it's just as easy.

Do you remember after the Trade, when Etnad randomly gained the power to shift to-and-from Limbo whenever he wanted? They could have taken that concept and used it as a late-game mechanic, where you can shift between the two dimensions at will ala Soul Reaver. You could have had a final battle where you had to stop flying debris to use as platforms, then pull down buildings on Mundas's head to stun him.
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Yeah, I enjoyed that getaway sequence where I had to move stuff out of the cars way but it felt random and made little sense as to why time was slowing down at certain points. Even if not a new game mechanic, it could have been executed better. For example, Dante's DT could have caused it like a quicksilver effect or sup'm like that.
 
Ruisu said:
Yeah, is still a plot hole. Just a different kind :P
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Ruisu said:
Thanks for the video. I can see clearly now, this is no power of dante, you got it wrong.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NewPowersAsThePlotDemands

Loopy said:
And I would be laughing and puking at the grossness at the same time. :lol: Those two scenes were asking to be put together.:troll:
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I really bothered me with how vanilla Mundas's sex life is. Dude's a goddamned demon god, an icon of debauchery and depravity. He should get off by peeling off his lover's skin, growing billions of unspeakable appendages and violating orofises without name. I understand he's got a human form to think about, but really? Doggy over the desk? Slugs get kinkier than that.
 
Macabre said:
The hands were my favourite detail. The crawling, chaotic form, that was pure Nylarthotep. Despite being orange.

nyarlathotep.jpg


Sorry but I'm short on linkage at the moment. I'll browse for it later.
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You wanted Mundus to turn into a moe school girl?
images
, well she would make a better boss than mundus
 
I believe they made Mundus to easy his boss fight was lame he's a demon king and all he can do is shoot some garbage balls shoot fire and slam is fist I thought he would do so much more and they should have used the human Mundus as a second fight inside the big Mundus that would have been better
 
DankestDarkness said:
I believe they made Mundus to easy his boss fight was lame he's a demon king and all he can do is shoot some garbage balls shoot fire and slam is fist I thought he would do so much more and they should have used the human Mundus as a second fight inside the big Mundus that would have been better
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In case I got that right, a demon's power stems from hell. He does not have his actual powers in the real world - Mundus tried to bypass this by opening his own hell gate, which was closed by Vergil right before that boss fight. Therefore, it seems logical that he can't do all the fancy stuff one would think he could do.
But then again, the boss fight being so lame is probably only due to the lack of time put into it by the developers. Mundus really should have had some more attacks and, from my point of view, there's no denying that this fight was uncreative to an extent that isn't even funny.

Personally, I'd be delighted if NT were to improve the battle against Mundus in a future patch.
However, I doubt NT would do something like this...
 
Well even still three attacks is so little to do if you a demon king I understand he don't got the hell gate but you have to have more power than that they really should have made you fight the human Mundus inside so it could last longer and feel more like a demon king fight
 
Well, it really was a disappointment when that cutscene appeared where Vergil just sliced Mundus in half with Yamato.
To me, from mission 18 onwards everything feels somewhat rushed in this game. Still enjoyed playing through those missions but they seemed to lack some depth.
 
DankestDarkness said:
They made alot of the characters kinda weak compared to Vergil and Dante
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And even then Vergil is pretty inept compared to Dante. The game is meant to make the player powerful, and it does this at the expense of making everyone in the universe except for Dante seem kind of pathetic.

In NT's defence though Classic Mundas didn't have very diverse attacks either if I recall. He fired lasers with his face, smashed platforms with his fists, summoned Orbs to fire mini-lasers at you and summoned a massive dragon made of magma to incinerate you, created shockwaves, summoned homing orb turrets to attack at close range, several different types of plasma attacks AND dropping huge meteors on you, and all this was just one of his three forms. And he did all this while standing in the caldera of a volcano and the only way of hitting him at close range was by leaping over magma onto the fragile, constantly moving platforms.

...Okay nevermind.
 
Macabre said:
And even then Vergil is pretty inept compared to Dante. The game is meant to make the player powerful, and it does this at the expense of making everyone in the universe except for Dante seem kind of pathetic.

In NT's defence though Classic Mundas didn't have very diverse attacks either if I recall. He fired lasers with his face, smashed platforms with his fists, summoned Orbs to fire mini-lasers at you and summoned a massive dragon made of magma to incinerate you, created shockwaves, summoned homing orb turrets to attack at close range, several different types of plasma attacks AND dropping huge meteors on you, and all this was just one of his three forms. And he did all this while standing in the caldera of a volcano and the only way of hitting him at close range was by leaping over magma onto the fragile, constantly moving platforms.

...Okay nevermind.
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No the dragon attack was yours (once DT was full), Mundus main attack was the massive white beam he shot from his eyes which was kinda...epic lol especially how the demon symbols appeared in front of him in a circle, as if summoning said great attack :)
 
SuperDante007 said:
No the dragon attack was yours (once DT was full), Mundus main attack was the massive white beam he shot from his eyes which was kinda...epic lol especially how the demon symbols appeared in front of him in a circle, as if summoning said great attack :)
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Although Dante can summon the dragon to attack Mundas during the shoot'emup section, while he's standing in the volcano Mundas summons the same dragon to attack Dante. No I have no idea how that works.
 
Hmm, well to me, from my most honest review regarding about the Mundus fight in this REBOOT version, is kinda of...sucks but I had really fun fighting with him because it was just too easy for me. And kind of disappointed, of course. Before I fought with Mundus, I thought it was gonna be one hell of an epic boss battle but after I defeated him, I came to realize that the Mundus from the original DMC series, is a far away more BETTER & EPIC final boss battle I've ever played in DMC series. I just got an idea, it would be more epic if Dante and Vergil merged together into one fine ultimate form of Devil Trigger which portray the appearance of Sparda's Devil Trigger and fight with Mundus for 3-4 times just like how we fought Mundus in the original DMC series. Even you fight with Mundus in the orignal DMC series, Dante transform himself into his Daddy's Devil Trigger and even fight with Mundus for freaking 3 times! EPIC! Once again, I would like to say that this Mundus in DmC REBOOT version, is a way too easy for me to defeat him. If Mundus from the original series would meeting up and fighting with Mundus from the REBOOT version, Mundus from the original series would just crush Mundus from the REBOOT version just a few seconds. That's how easy it is when I fought with him. No offense. Lol :P
 
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