Ninja Theory's Tameen Antoniades on DmC and the pressure of making it

[DragonMaster2010]

And you know me enough to conclude that I hate "anything new"? I liked Lord of the Rings movies, Hidalgo, and some other new movies. But majority do not have quality of old movies, in good part because they are made very quickly and in large numbers.

I never said you. I mean in general. And I don't praise all old movies as the best. Old movies had a lot of mess ups and problems and campiness and sometimes they can look even more ridiculous with time. In the end, it's all subjective as to which generation is better.

No, but it makes it more likely to be that way. Compare Alfred Hitchkock's horror movies and majority of modern "horrors". Blood and gore don't make it horrific, yet many modern movie makers don't seem to realize it (watch "Event Horizon" for a very graphical display of that mentality.).

Again, subjective opinion. just because you don't like the new gen movies of horror doesn't mean everyone else will say so as well. For me, most older horror movies are more laughable now a days then current horror movies.

In anime yes, but not that much in video games. And btw, Nero is far from angsty, displaying emotions =/= angst, not all heroes have to be macho types and/or sociopaths. There are only two times you can say he acts angsty, both of these happen when it looks like he failed to save Kyrie despite everything he went through, so it's more than understandable even though second one is cliched to high Heaven. Granted, there is too much "Kyrieee!" thrown around, but a lot of it is from his memories with no context provided.

True, but there's showing emotions, and being a little bitch. Nero's crying doesn't warrant to me because Kyrie hasn't shown a very interesting character for me to give a single damn about her, and thus I don't see why Nero would even cry for her. Not only that, but there's not even enough character development for her and him to get me to actually believe that his tears weren't anything short but needy.

And trust me; there is a lot of angst like Nero in anime styled video games. Games in Japan just love teen anime angst and will get any chance to use it.

 

[OppressedWriter]

And just FYI, thing that got me into DMC 4 was gameplay, not characterization and/or story, even though I don't think Nero is a bad character - far better than your typical Hollywood action hero at least.

So, that's why you stated in that you won't give DmC a chance, because of harmless promotional interview where a developer said Hollywood sensibilities to describe some part of the narrative feel of the game. DMC has never been some low key, low budget art flick, it has always had hollywood or big budget sensibilities, I bet you'd be surprisesd to learn that DMC4 may have cost more than DmC due to the amount of money capcom wasted on the cutscenes.

Anyway, I'm probably wrong to lecture you since you totally only care about gameplay, but won't play a game due to some harmless quote. Don't care for Nero, but have him as your avatar when he isn't even the character that defines DMC at all.

 

[Picard]

Anyway, I'm probably wrong to lecture you since you totally only care about gameplay, but won't play a game due to some harmless quote.

I decided not to play DmC primarly because I still haven't finished DMC 4. As for his "harmless quote", he basically said that game is brainless - up to and including gameplay (if I cared about story that much, I would have never played any DMC game). So sooner you let me forget it, the better.

 

[xMobilemux]

I decided not to play DmC primarly because I still haven't finished DMC 4. As for his "harmless quote", he basically said that game is brainless - up to and including gameplay (if I cared about story that much, I would have never played any DMC game). So sooner you let me forget it, the better.

If you play DMC4, 3 and 1 for their gameplay(I do too ) before you play DmC, you're gonna easily notice how lacking DmCs gameplay is to the past 3 good games, because the core of DMC1, 3 & 4 is their awesome gameplay(as it should be for every video game), but the core of DmC is it's graphics, story and character development, all of which are garbage and the gameplay is dumbed down for newbies and feels like crap when you want something as fast and stylish as 3 & 4, DMC1 isn't as fast as 3 & 4 but far more entertaining than DmC.
So yeah don't play DmC straight after DMC4, get a console, grab the HD collection and complete the other 2 good games before going into DmC.

Btw what difficulty are you playing DMC4 on?

 

[Sunaka Marién]

How did you get it so early? Both Amazon US and Amazon UK have it for a March release this year. If I'd known I could get it sooner, I would have.
Is the book any good? What is in it? Also does it have any special concept art that the other art books do not have?

Hey there, sorry for not responding earlier; so, about that A Divine Comedy book.
I felt like it read a little like a 'All you need to know about Devil May Cry' type of thing; it basically details the history of the games, how it started out as a RE game, to why we had two protagonists in DMC2, why they decided for Nero to be the new protagonist and why they rebooted the series. It's also got a bit on cultural influences in DMC, like the preception of hell in different religions or the Gothic influences found in the games. Of course, there are also small character and weapon descriptions. There aren't exactly interviews in it, but they threw in some quotes here and there. Not too sure about the conceptart, I think for the most part we already know everything; maybe some of the DMC2 stuff is new, and I'm pretty sure that that one picture of 'Dante and the Angels'-conceptart/promotional art is a version we haven't seen yet; I should probably also mention that they don't have any specific pages only showing concept art; it's more used as a decorative thing.
All in all, I found it quite interesting, there was quite a bit of stuff I didn't know yet, but that really depends on how much you know about the series in general, I guess. It sure is nice to have everything combined in one book, though.
I got my copy directly from Pix'n'Love, from the same page you linked in the thread - there should be a 'Change Currency' button to the right, and an 'Add to Cart' button at the end of the book's description. Before you can pay, they'll ask you to create an account for their page, but it's all explained, so that shouldn't be a problem.

To everyone else: Sorry for crashing the thread! (>.<)

 

[TWOxACROSS]

If you play DMC4, 3 and 1 for their gameplay(I do too ) before you play DmC, you're gonna easily notice how lacking DmCs gameplay is to the past 3 good games, because the core of DMC1, 3 & 4 is their awesome gameplay(as it should be for every video game), but the core of DmC is it's graphics, story and character development, all of which are garbage and the gameplay is dumbed down for newbies and feels like crap when you want something as fast and stylish as 3 & 4, DMC1 isn't as fast as 3 & 4 but far more entertaining than DmC.
So yeah don't play DmC straight after DMC4, get a console, grab the HD collection and complete the other 2 good games before going into DmC.

I'd say this is all extremely subjective. Especially to say that DMC1 is a game that holds a candle to DMC3 and DMC4. DMC1 was the platforum that the franchise is built upon but it extremely lacking in its combat gameplay, and especially to say it's better than DmC when DmC was built off of DMC3 and DMC4.

Seriously...the greatest thing you can do in DMC1 is Clay Pigeon and that makes it better than all the sh!t you can do in DmC...?

 

[Picard]

If you play DMC4, 3 and 1 for their gameplay(I do too ) before you play DmC, you're gonna easily notice how lacking DmCs gameplay is to the past 3 good games, because the core of DMC1, 3 & 4 is their awesome gameplay(as it should be for every video game), but the core of DmC is it's graphics, story and character development, all of which are garbage and the gameplay is dumbed down for newbies and feels like crap when you want something as fast and stylish as 3 & 4, DMC1 isn't as fast as 3 & 4 but far more entertaining than DmC.
So yeah don't play DmC straight after DMC4, get a console, grab the HD collection and complete the other 2 good games before going into DmC.

Regarding DmC, I've just installed it and started playing the first level (I didn't plan to do it right now originally, but I didn't feel like continuing DMC 4s campaign immediately and I got bored of the Bloody Palace so I decided to check it out), and I have already noticed problems: introduction apparently can't be skipped, camera feels jittery (EDIT: this particular problem apparently had to do with game setting graphics quality too high for my pc or the fact that I'm playing while browsin) and combat seems more sluggish than that of DMC 3 (and DMC 3's combat got me bored). EDIT 2: Started using guns, and Dante locks on to an enemy so far away so as to be incapable of harming me instead of enemies that are only 2-5 meters away? And apparently you can't switch targets manually. WTF? EDIT3: Dante acts like a jackass. "I didn't ask for your help." What, too hard to say "thanks"? I mean, even Nero of all people would say "thank you". EDIT4: This review really makes it justice.

And PC games exist for gameplay, story and character development are there simply to help players immerse into game, they are extremely valuable if done right but are not a must. Graphics are simply a luxury, it is nice if game looks well but I never played a game for its graphics (my favorite FPS games are Halo: Combat Evolved and Call of Duty 2; neither can be said to have stellar graphics compared to modern games but are far more fun than most modern games; Halo especially so, since unlike many modern FPSs it uses medpacks instead of automatically replenishing health - just imagine the fun of running around in a Flood-infested facility with only one bar of health remaining below the shields).

Btw what difficulty are you playing DMC4 on?

Dante Must Die right now, and aside from campaign I spend a lot of time in the Bloody Palace - I managed to get to the level 21 before running out of time once, but usually I use it simply for exercise and stashing up on red orbs.

True, but there's showing emotions, and being a little bitch. Nero's crying doesn't warrant to me because Kyrie hasn't shown a very interesting character for me to give a single damn about her, and thus I don't see why Nero would even cry for her. Not only that, but there's not even enough character development for her and him to get me to actually believe that his tears weren't anything short but needy.

True, Kyrie is rather lacking in development, but game does focus on Nero and Dante so it is questionable that they could have developed here more. Especially since the game was rushed.

And trust me; there is a lot of angst like Nero in anime styled video games. Games in Japan just love teen anime angst and will get any chance to use it.

I didn't play any Japanese games before - except for, funnily enough, Resident Evil 4. I'm mostly familiar with Western games - Call of Duty 2, 4 and MW2, Doom 3 and RoE, Prototype as far as action-oriented games go.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

If you play DMC4, 3 and 1 for their gameplay(I do too ) before you play DmC, you're gonna easily notice how lacking DmCs gameplay is to the past 3 good games, because the core of DMC1, 3 & 4 is their awesome gameplay(as it should be for every video game), but the core of DmC is it's graphics, story and character development, all of which are garbage and the gameplay is dumbed down for newbies and feels like crap when you want something as fast and stylish as 3 & 4, DMC1 isn't as fast as 3 & 4 but far more entertaining than DmC.
So yeah don't play DmC straight after DMC4, get a console, grab the HD collection and complete the other 2 good games before going into DmC.

Btw what difficulty are you playing DMC4 on?

This coming from the dude who praises Duke Nukem as the best action game ever made. -_-

 

[Bazilican]

If you play DMC4, 3 and 1 for their gameplay(I do too ) before you play DmC, you're gonna easily notice how lacking DmCs gameplay is to the past 3 good games, because the core of DMC1, 3 & 4 is their awesome gameplay(as it should be for every video game), but the core of DmC is it's graphics, story and character development, all of which are garbage and the gameplay is dumbed down for newbies and feels like crap when you want something as fast and stylish as 3 & 4, DMC1 isn't as fast as 3 & 4 but far more entertaining than DmC.
So yeah don't play DmC straight after DMC4, get a console, grab the HD collection and complete the other 2 good games before going into DmC.

Btw what difficulty are you playing DMC4 on?

That's a load of horse sh!t.
DMC1 may be loved by you fans as the best, but I will never say it's better then the others. DMC1's mechanics are choppy, dated, and way behind on stylish. DMC3 was better, and DMC4 was utter crap with a lot of useless buttons put on to the controller.

DmC isn't winning any points in gameplay, but it's definitely better then DMC1's slow as snail gameplay and DMC4's garbage slow weapon switching.

The HD collection was pure sh!t no mistake about that. Lol, HD? Bitch please, it didn't even look like HD. You wanna see a real HD collection?

THIS is an HD collection you moronic noob.

No one likes a dude being a punk just because "DEVIL MAY CRY IS DEAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT CAMPY ANYMOAR!! I HATE IT!! I HATE THE SERIES!!"

 

[Sunaka Marién]

and DMC 3's combat got me bored

O___________________O D-Did I read that right? I think this is the first time every I've heard anybody say that DMC3 got them bored.

I didn't play any Japanese games before - except for, funnily enough, Resident Evil 4. I'm mostly familiar with Western games - Call of Duty 2, 4 and MW2, Doom 3 and RoE, Prototype as far as action-oriented games go.

Uh-hun, maybe that's why. Prototype is a fantastic action game, and can probably be considered hack'n'slash too? but it's still completely different from Devil May Cry games, if you ask me. So maybe it doesn't quite work for you, since you're approching it like a western game?

 

[OppressedWriter]

I decided not to play DmC primarly because I still haven't finished DMC 4. As for his "harmless quote", he basically said that game is brainless - up to and including gameplay (if I cared about story that much, I would have never played any DMC game). So sooner you let me forget it, the better.

"We Focused all of our energy on our work as we tried to avoid other distractions. The result was a hit among critics and one of Capcom's most highly rated games in recent years. For us, as artists, it delivered what we set out to create: an original interpretation of an amazing game series very dear to our hearts."
Tameem Antoniades

Yeah, sure sounds like he said their work was brainless.

stuff

You can indeed skip the intro, its called the select, back, or backspace button, but pirating the game you probably wouldn't know that. As someone who claims to care about gameplay, story, and presentation your opinion on dmc seems disingenuous, because the game is exceptional if you actually have the PC to run it and actually know what makes a good action game. Also, saying DMC3 combat bored you is just sacrilegious, eew. Yeah, I don't think you get DmC or DMC3 at all if you prefer first person shooters and action games like prototype, which are more about splash damage and giant explosions rather than an intricate free flow combat system. I see now why you like Nero, its probably cuz he has so Scripted super moves that you can activate at a press of a button, sorry DmC expects you to use the combat engine to create spectacular enemy finishes - no qtes here, thank god.

Also, try to play through the story before forming opinions about the story. It's called character development, Dante starts out like he doesn't care and slowly changes over the course of the game. So, why would he say "I didn't ask for your help," because thats his character at that point of the story. He's been alone all his life and he doesn't really give a **** about anyone, including himself, he just kills demons and tries to go on by. The story of DmC is him coming to realization that he does indeed have some purpose, and that is to slay demons and protect mankind.

About lock on, please play DmC on a controller, its on the left stick, and much better than ever before for dynamic target switching during battle. And before you say, I like playing on keyboard. No one plays fighting games on keyboard if they're serious same thing goes for an action game like DmC. I recommend an xbox controller or a ps controller that is emulating an xbox controller, you absolutely need the pressure sensitivity on the triggers to actually understand how good the weapon switching system is.

Also, **** that review. You should be ashamed to link that review and call it objective, good to know you're not someone worth taking seriously, just stay in the dmc4 board. That is the most biased bullshit review I've ever seen and that guy is a douche.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Started using guns, and Dante locks on to an enemy so far away so as to be incapable of harming me instead of enemies that are only 2-5 meters away? And apparently you can't switch targets manually. WTF? EDIT3: Dante acts like a jackass. "I didn't ask for your help." What, too hard to say "thanks"? I mean, even Nero of all people would say "thank you". EDIT4: This review really makes it justice.

There's quite a bit wrong with you're saying here...because you're just sorta complaining about things without actually bothering to learn or understand them.

You can very much switch targets, and your overall aim is modified by who you tilt the Left Stick (if you're using a controller) at. If you're using a specific Lock type from DMC4, this should be very familiar.

Dante being a jackass? Sure, that's the point, he doesn't stay like that. You just started the game and are meeting the character at his most anti-social.

Aaaaand that review is heavily-biased bullsh!t, which just about every two-bit internet video game reviewer has done because they want more people to like their videos, so they cater to the loud and popular opinion. That review had a lot of talking, but nothing of value was actually said.

 

[xMobilemux]

This coming from the dude who praises Duke Nukem as the best action game ever made. -_-

Where in the f**k did I say it was the best action game ever made? Please quote me on where I said it was the best action game ever!

That's a load of horse sh!t.
DMC1 may be loved by you fans as the best, but I will never say it's better then the others. DMC1's mechanics are choppy, dated, and way behind on stylish. DMC3 was better, and DMC4 was utter crap with a lot of useless buttons put on to the controller.

DmC isn't winning any points in gameplay, but it's definitely better then DMC1's slow as snail gameplay and DMC4's garbage slow weapon switching.

The HD collection was pure sh!t no mistake about that. Lol, HD? Bitch please, it didn't even look like HD. You wanna see a real HD collection?

THIS is an HD collection you moronic noob.

No one likes a dude being a punk just because "DEVIL MAY CRY IS DEAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT CAMPY ANYMOAR!! I HATE IT!! I HATE THE SERIES!!"

Haha, You guys gave off the very oversensitive butthurt fanboy reaction I anticipated.
Thanks guys, You just won me a $20 worth of GoG games bet, FROM A DmC fan :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:. You oversensitive DmC wimps are too f**king easy.

This review really makes it justice.

That review is all you need to hear, sure the fanboys will bash it and call him a douche but that's because they can't take it, look how they reacted to me.
Just stick to DMC4 because it's gameplay curb stomps DmC any day.

Dante Must Die right now, and aside from campaign I spend a lot of time in the Bloody Palace - I managed to get to the level 21 before running out of time once, but usually I use it simply for exercise and stashing up on red orbs.

If you decide to continue DmC(waste of time IMO), restart it on the hardest possible default difficulty if you haven't already, it'll still be easier than DMC4 on Automatic Easy mode, but at least it'll be a little less insulting.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Haha, You guys gave off the very oversensitive butthurt fanboy reaction I anticipated.
Thanks guys, You just won me a $20 worth of GoG games bet, FROM A DmC fan :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:. You oversensitive DmC wimps are too f**king easy.

Bazillican isn't a DmC fanboy...like...at all.

 

[xMobilemux]

Bazillican isn't a DmC fanboy...like...at all.

Well I was more or less talking about DragonMasters cheap reply there, but that combined with the epic butthurt surrounding the HD collections and name calling was more than enough to win the bet :laugh:.

I own the MGS HD Collection and love it as well as the DMC one :wink:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The DMC HD Collection is really damn subpar. I like that they redid the controls for DMC1, but the lack of widescreen menus and the horribly rendered cutscenes are just really disappointing, and makes it seem very half-assed compared to HD collections like ICO+Shadow of the Colossus and Metal Gear Solid :/

 

[xMobilemux]

The DMC HD Collection is really damn subpar. I like that they redid the controls for DMC1, but the lack of widescreen menus and the horribly rendered cutscenes are just really disappointing, and makes it seem very half-assed compared to HD collections like ICO+Shadow of the Colossus and Metal Gear Solid :/

The DMC HD Collection is nothing special, but it's got the 2 great games on it to play on PS3 at slightly better resolution and I don't have to find and plug in my PS2 every time I want to play.
The MGS HD Collection is badass.

 

[Picard]

You can very much switch targets, and your overall aim is modified by who you tilt the Left Stick (if you're using a controller) at. If you're using a specific Lock type from DMC4, this should be very familiar.

Nice, except I don't have controller. And sword combat is not a problem, but using guns never gave me desired results because Dante would almost never lock at a target I wanted him to - instead of targeting a weaker enemy that is almost, but not quite, within sword striking distance, he targets a more powerful enemy that is too far away to be of an immediate concern.

Aaaaand that review is heavily-biased bullsh!t, which just about every two-bit internet video game reviewer has done because they want more people to like their videos, so they cater to the loud and popular opinion. That review had a lot of talking, but nothing of value was actually said.

Any review is heavily biased simply because different people have different preferences. It doesn't mean it's bullshit.

As someone who claims to care about gameplay, story, and presentation

Gameplay > everything else, and they severely f***ed up the gameplay in the game.

Yeah, I don't think you get DmC or DMC3 at all if you prefer first person shooters and action games like prototype, which are more about splash damage and giant explosions rather than an intricate free flow combat system.

I never said I prefer them, I like different types of games (my favorite game is Homeworld 2, which is an RTS), but HALO: Combat Evolved is head and shoulders above any new FPS. As for DMC 3, I found combat uncomfortably slow, but I understand that it is older game than DMC 4 so I was willing to simply pass over it. DmC has no such excuse.

I see now why you like Nero

You see what you want to see but not what reality is, I like Nero because if you play him right you play him fast, I don't want to die of boredom while playing an action game. And what super moves you're talking about? He's got Buster moves, but I don't use them very often - Snatch is a different story, though.

Also, **** that review. You should be ashamed to link that review and call it objective,

Oh, yes, "I don't like it so I'll call it ****" fanboyism.

 

[xMobilemux]

Gameplay > everything else

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Nice, except I don't have controller. And sword combat is not a problem, but using guns never gave me desired results because Dante would almost never lock at a target I wanted him to - instead of targeting a weaker enemy that is almost, but not quite, within sword striking distance, he targets a more powerful enemy that is too far away to be of an immediate concern.

Hrm...I'm not quite sure how you can rectify that bar getting a controller. I mean, I'd imagine you should be able to use the directional movement keys for the same effect, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be nearly as precise. You'll have to look at the config screen to see what key Target Switch is set to.

Any review is heavily biased simply because different people have different preferences. It doesn't mean it's bullshit.

Not quite, because that "review" was more complaining about how it isn't this or that more than actually talking about the game's merits, whilst taking jabs at the game's expense, which is just rather bad form. It's difficult to get an objective review of the game when watching a video like that.

I'm sort of sick of a lot of the upstart YouTube "I can totally make game review" types because they think that reviewing something is simply talking about it. There's a reason why schools of journalism exist, because people tend not to like listening to news from people who can't stay objectionable (eg people who hate FOX News), and those schools teach people how to actually stay objectionable.

Gameplay > everything else, and they severely f***ed up the gameplay in the game.

Are you really in a position to say such a thing when you can't even get half of the game to control the way it should...? I'd also disagree simply because nothing about how the game plays is f#cked up in the slightest, it's all working just as they intended.

Whether you like it or not is totally your bag, but that doesn't make it a "bad game".