with teh whole, "do it for teh happiness of teh people" kind of theme in many Japanese story telling :tongue:
Ninja Theory's Tameen Antoniades on DmC and the pressure of making it
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!
Break it down for me Dormammu! "The power of- the power of- the power of- the power of- !!!"
Break it down for me Dormammu! "The power of- the power of- the power of- the power of- !!!"
Unfortunately, you're right. From what i've heard/read in an article about the status of Japanese games is that a lot of their producers like to stick to their own "style" of producing gameplay and story. A BIG number of them don't like international standards.. either, i dunno, they're too afraid of change, or maybe PRIDE is an issue.. or something else. Another similar article I've come across to mentioned, they're more for the "NOSTALGIC" feel in games. Now, im not totally against that but "SERIOUSLY??". I've had HUGE respect for Japanese games back then, but now.. "meh." BTW, I've also heard that Square Enix Japan might resort to small time franchises like Social games and dating sims. *still needs confirmation, though*
But, it may not be the fault of the companies. it could also well be the market. not a lot of Japanese play games anymore. they've lessened over the years. I only hear young teens and preteens play them. I've talked to some Japanese online since i tutor them English, most of them say dont have time for games and "it's only for children." wtf
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
It's pretty much this. Japan is huge on pride. It's such an intricate part of their society. Salarymen that get laid off from their jobs will leave work on their last day and just never come home, because they don't want to face their families in disgrace. They'd rather be f#cking homeless than come home to their loved ones.
It's not that Japan is afraid of change either. Look at Japan's history. The westernization of the country was embraced by so many because they wanted to keep up with how things were going in the rest of the modern world. Then, they got on top with electronics and all that, and now we've caught up, so they're scrambling to stay on top and either keep doing what they always did, or embrace westernization again in the form of asking western studios to help develop new takes on their games. And then they're getting it all wrong.
Japan became a country consumed not just by honor, but business, and they became so intrinsically linked that they effect each other so much. CEOs stand down when the company does poorly, axed salarymen choose homelessness, and in the case of the video game industry, they see all the profits being made by some western games and feel they need to somehow do things occidentally to succeed - completely forgetting that they had been succeeding the whole time.
Call of Duty ruined the video game industry. It makes such a huge profit that people try to chase that same rabbit, but it only works for Call of Duty because it's not a game for the hardcore gamer - it's for the gramers. Call of Duty promoted the idea of safe and easy development that is killing innovation and increasing the annualization of so many franchises. The worse, however, is how the Japanese side of the industry saw it; Namco Bandai was almost done localizing the Tales of series in the west because they believed all we cared about was shooters, and it made so many other developers think they just needed a western touch to their games to earn themselves some of that phat CoD coin.
Well...Call of Duty and Activision, because they keep buying up all the great studios, milking their franchises into irrelevance, and then killing said franchises off :/
RANT OVER! I'M OUT!
The POWER OF HOPEFULNESS AND LOVE AND MANY DRAMATIC STUFF.
*relax, we're trollin'. dont get offended fellow otakus. :tongue:
Man, I should've landed a job there in activision.. LOL. i kid.
I've only enjoyed a limited time on multiplayer and single player campaigns. The only thing i loved mostly in the series was experimenting and playing around with its toys... este, GUNZ and WAR VEHICLEZ!
"It's only for children," funny how in the United States, people constantly say games are just for kids and tons of people end up playing them. Perhaps the Streisand effect, which, by the way is a really old concept that somehow has a recent name. Basically, someone or something says don't do this like don't read "heretical material" and people all end up reading it out of curiosity. Some might find the material offending as it was deemed or others might find it inspiring or just not worth the trouble of condemning. Hell, DmC: Devil May Cry was subject to this effect. The whole fanbase freaking out just drew more attention to it and the rest of the series.
Anyway, Konami, Nintendo, and strangely, Capcom, come to mind on Japanese companies who branch off and explore different cultures, ideas, and styles instead of sticking to their own guns. Konami has Hideo Kojima who watches tons of films and is inspired by pretty much anything involving them, although he still sticks to conspiracy and war-based games. Metal Gear was inspired by the Terminator, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Escape from New York, and people like Lee Van Cleef who inspired parts of both Solid Snake and Revolver Ocelot. It also Japanese themes to it, I'm assuming things from like mecha films since Metal Gear involves giant, bipedal tanks, along with the sort of honor thing that cyborg ninjas like Gray Fox and Raiden have. Y'know, I'm starting to think that Para-Medic might be an author surrogate since she's constantly telling Naked Snake about films. Anyway, Metal Gear always seemed like the sort of game anyone from pretty much any nation could enjoy or not be confused. It's not too Eastern nor is it too Western. It's a mix of both.
Nintendo, believe it or not, are really flexible with games. It's just that they're limiting those games to their consoles. Also, most of their games are considered "kiddy" - I just find them fun, kiddy or not. Kid Icarus is based on Greek and Roman mythology while adding a sort of anime-flair to it - well, recently, since the past didn't have much humor aside from one ending and the Eggplant Wizards. Now, it's just a funky game that does not have a fourth wall nor does it takes itself seriously. Metroid was inspired by Alien. The main, 2D series were all made by the Eastern side of Nintendo. The Prime series were made by Retro Studios from the United States. Despite the differences in developers, none of the games are different from each other. They all feature a badass, bounty hunter named Samus Aran who braves treacherous planets and alien supremacists - yes, the Space Pirates believe that they're superior to all and native to all planets. That said, Other M is considered to be the most radical since they Nintendo wanted to dabble in more story-based games and voice-acting. It didn't work as well as Kid Icarus: Uprising. Then again, Uprising was more playful while Other M tried to be serious. Recently, Nintendo acquired Next Level Games, a Canadian developer, whose recent release was Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. Likewise, after Nintendo saw potential in Retro Studios, they immediately acquired them and put all their faith in a new studio with Metroid. Retro Studios ended up creating the Prime Trilogy and are now responsible for the Donkey Kong Country series. Next Level Games might end up taking Luigi's Mansion as their series. Still, that's a lot of trust Nintendo has on "outsiders".
Capcom kind of did this with Dragon's Dogma, Lost Planet, and DmC: Devil May Cry. Though Dragon's Dogma is something Hideaki Itsuno wanted to do for ages, it's still a departure from the usual Japanese games of being over-the-top, ridiculous, or strange. Usually, you don't see a lot of medieval games from Japan that are actually medieval. Final Fantasy does not count since it doesn't have that dark, dreary, grim moods that the medieval ages are associated with. Dragon's Dogma still stays over-the-top, but that's something Capcom is known for. deep down, however, seems to be taking that dark mood beyond Dragon's Dogma. Lost Planet despite being original at first for being more Western sci-fi-y, it became something akin to Monster Hunter, before becoming a generic copy of Western shooters. DmC was basically Capcom finding a Western developer and having them take a spin on their games. Guess what? It's really unique since it has both the Western and Eastern styles. It has Capcom's usual over-the-top style while incorporating the current Western trend of gritty, edgy media. The irony is that Ninja Theory is known for doing the opposite: taking Eastern stories, games, media, etc. and giving them a Western flair.
Speaking of Square Enix, the weird thing is that Square Enix always tries different styles but nowadays are getting ripped on by pretty much everyone. Instead, they're being pressured into making old-school games. Final Fantasy X introduced voice-acting to the series alongside having a much more Eastern-themed setting - X is supposedly a Final Fantasy of Polynesia. It's was well-received, but people either hated the voice acting or liked it. Still, put this into consideration though, this was the early days of voice acting; we didn't have Nolan North back then. Then came Final Fantasy XII, which to me seemed to be Rome, Egypt, and India combined when talking about the world. I love the world of XII; I love the voices and the style of speech. It felt so strange and mystical. Unfortunately, it suffers from having (old) MMO gameplay. The sort of gameplay that's so monotonous. It was a new take on the series, which each Final Fantasy does, but people just didn't like it and I think were vocal about it. So, Square Enix were taken aback. They didn't know what to do. Final Fantasy XIII tried to appeal to Western tastes and Eastern tastes. It didn't do well and as each entry into the XIII trilogy was made, it became more and more Eastern. Ironically, that made the games become more well-received, though sales were low. Type-0 at this point seems like a perfect mesh of Western and Eastern tastes. Gameplay-wise, it's pretty much Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII and Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep. Or Final Fantasy X but in real time. Setting and story are still in the realm of Final Fantasy mystery. Unfortunately, it was only released in Japan, some time after the Final Fantasy XIII reception which threw Square Enix into confusion. Final Fantasy XV is supposedly inspired by Shakespeare and the setting are inspired by cities all over such as Venice and a ghost town in the United States. Gameplay-wise, with what was presented, it seems to take stealth and cover shooter mechanics, Kingdom Heart's combat, and open-world gameplay popularized in the past generation. The hype on it though, might kill it like it did with Final Fantasy XIII. Anyway, Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light and the Bravely series ended being created with the old school style of games. They did great and fans from the West wanted Bravely Default to be made available everywhere. So, what the hell are Square Enix supposed to do? Continue what they always do and make each Final Fantasy something unique or listen to fans and make old school games? They want to do unique things, but when those unique things constantly get ripped on and other Japanese companies continue doing the same thing over and over and succeeding, Square Enix are in a dilemma. I'm willing to bet that when they made Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, they expected fans to say they weren't trying and just rehashing old games.
On topic: I would be scared, anxious, and maybe driven insane if I had the pressure of making another game from a beloved and popular series. Retro Studios were especially since every other game they were still developing were deemed inadequate by Nintendo and suddenly Nintendo says, "Make a Metroid game". I would pass out, I might even die from the shock of it. What if I screw up and be known as the guy who destroyed Metroid? What if I fail Nintendo? Sure, I'd get help from the original creators, but living up to their achievements would be horrible. I would rather be part of the development team and assist than directly make it. That way, I would at least have some experience working with it. Though, if that all pays off, I would be the happiest guy in the universe.
Now, let's add fans insulting you, death threats, and an overall negative perception on your game. Retro Studios had skeptics and that was directed to the whole of the studio. Ninja Theory had that too, but most of that was directed to one person. Every waking moment would be hell if I were in Tameem's shoes. Every step you make to try and prove you're making a good game and you have thousands of people screaming at your back to die, that you suck, or whatever would just kill any optimism you had stored to make it through one day. I have respect for him; I respect his ability to endure all of that and come out saying, "I made DmC: Devil May Cry and I'm proud of it". Does that make him the greatest developer of all time? No. Does that justify his moments of backlash? Sort of, hell, I would crack, too. Does that make DmC a great game? Hell no, whatever effort was put into a game shows its quality and attention to it, not how great it is. DmC could have ten years of development and it would not be the best game ever. No game would since there'll always be another game to top it. A game's greatness is based on its merits and what it accomplished, revolutionized, and innovated. Anyway, it just shows that Tameem is one tough cookie (with weird hair) and it shows human nature's way of never giving up or our stubbornness. Also, it shows that people really have to stop whining after a scraped knee or petty insults. I know everyone's different, but if he can survive thousands of people degrading him, you can survive ten or more. Then again, Tameem wasn't alone, he had his team and supporters.
Not true. From What I'm hearing Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, and such are doing pretty well in Japan.
cool story bro, :thumbsup: very insightful. On regards to Square, im kinda sad on how it's turning out, i mean the previous CEO stepping down, sales going down.. i would say i've only played VII and VIII and i found them to be the best.
On regards to Tameem, maybe we all need to learn from him. In a world where convenience digital convenience can be swiped on the tip of the finger, consumers can easily bash a product, particularly a game they hold so much expectations for... even to the point they're brutal beyond reason. Just remember, when we do things we love doing (productive things of course), we do them express not to impress. I worked on animation a bit and posted it on Youtube, first thing i got was some random turd saying it was sh!t. Did it discourage me? Hell yeah, it DID NOT!. :tongue:
MigsRZXAStylish
In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
There are some great Japanese games that have been released recently. The problem is that there are so many clones of FF released all over the place that people like to focus more on those than the really great games when talking about what comes out of Japan. But some of the upcoming releases look pretty promising. Can't wait for Dark Souls 2 and FFXV looks really interesting. Some of japanese media is starting to breakaway from it's tropes (Power of friendship). I have noticed that manga and anime that deal with its plot in a more real sense are becoming much more popular than they used to be. I don't see Japan getting rid of it's tropes anytime soon but at least were get more media that doesn't follow it.
I think I've found out which book this Tameem quote is from:
http://www.pixnlovepublishing.com/Books/Devil-May-Cry-Inferno-Edition/flypage.tpl.html
The book is to be released in English language soon, but it's already out in French. It's says on the front cover about a foreword from Tameem.
http://www.pixnlovepublishing.com/Books/Devil-May-Cry-Inferno-Edition/flypage.tpl.html
The book is to be released in English language soon, but it's already out in French. It's says on the front cover about a foreword from Tameem.
Several ears absence? Devil May Cry has been around for years. :bored:
Oh, it's already been released in English, last year in September, to be exact. I even have a copy. It's kinda like an encyclopedia for Devil May Cry.
2008-2013, so no game for ~5 years? I think that qualifies as "several years of absence" :tongue:
How did you get it so early? Both Amazon US and Amazon UK have it for a March release this year. If I'd known I could get it sooner, I would have.
Is the book any good? What is in it? Also does it have any special concept art that the other art books do not have?
Tameem Antiniades said:
Thanks, I've just lost all of my interest in trying the game out. Until I forget that he said it, that is.
Not sure if serious, with Nero as theiravatar, you do know that DMC4 was Capcom's idea of what a western hero is like, Dante being a cowboy and Nero being a bit more vulgar, younger teen trying to save the girl of his dreams.
You understand that Western =/= Hollywood? Both Dante and Nero character types have appeared long before Hollywood did. As for Hollywood movies, oftentimes movie quality is inversely proportional to its special effects budget. I watched more movies than I care to remember, and almost all Hollywood movies I can mention as being really good are either old enough to be black and white or starring John Wayne, Clint Eastwood or Harrison Ford.
And just FYI, thing that got me into DMC 4 was gameplay, not characterization and/or story, even though I don't think Nero is a bad character - far better than your typical Hollywood action hero at least.
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That's nothing but opinionated bullshit by movie snobs who hate anything new.
Just because a movie is made now, doesn't mean it will automatically be bad. And just because the movie's old doesn't make it better. I still can't be bothered to watch Back to the Future or Indiana Jones, because I think they're boring or not good enough to get my attention.
Yes, because angsty teenage wanna-be rebel with an anime heart of gold hasn't been seen loads of times in all shonen anime (Ichigo, Natsu, Sasuke, etc.)
I never really understand what people see in DMC4, and frankly I don't care. If they like it, more power to them.
And you know me enough to conclude that I hate "anything new"? I liked Lord of the Rings movies, Hidalgo, and some other new movies. But majority do not have quality of old movies, in good part because they are made very quickly and in large numbers.
No, but it makes it more likely to be that way. Compare Alfred Hitchkock's horror movies and majority of modern "horrors". Blood and gore don't make it horrific, yet many modern movie makers don't seem to realize it (watch "Event Horizon" for a very graphical display of that mentality.).
In anime yes, but not that much in video games. And btw, Nero is far from angsty, displaying emotions =/= angst, not all heroes have to be macho types and/or sociopaths. There are only two times you can say he acts angsty, both of these happen when it looks like he failed to save Kyrie despite everything he went through, so it's more than understandable even though second one is cliched to high Heaven. Granted, there is too much "Kyrieee!" thrown around, but a lot of it is from his memories with no context provided.
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