ReRave
smug jerk
You're really not as funny as you think.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was getting sick of every word being turned around.
Ninja Theory: designing games purely for fans "will kill a series"
- Thread starter Tiran
- Start date
no I was talking abuot the part were she was trying to use a trap to catch them
Xeroxis
Space Detective
Allright, look ReRave, we both have very different opinions, and that makes us either both right, or both wrong.
I've really had it rough lately, and Im just trying to find some way to let off all this.... sorrow, I guess......
Look Im not against NT, and Im not against DmC, and Im certainly not against you, I was just trying to give my opinion, and yell at somethig at the same time. Im sorry if I offended you.
But here's the thing: I can tell your a very straight up person, and you seem to not really care about what people think about you, but I cant help but feel like your bashing me for what I like and dont like. So, could you please just ease up just a little? I dont want you to be my enemy....
KenKen
Gorram Browncoat
XD that sounds sort of funny.
Real talk though.
If you used your school newspaper to land an interview with NT, I'd probably worship you.
And the internet hates it when NT says anything about their games, so you would have done well
What everyone has said so far is all well and good except you're all forgetting one teeny, wittle item:
There is a difference between doing something the way you think is good and actually doing something right.
In video games, the only way to go is the right way, not your's. Sure, you may think an idea is great, and it probably is, but that doesn't make it the right idea. NT and DmC is a good example of this. DmC may turn out to be a great game, but its not needed nor is it right for DMC's revival. So those of you who see DmC as a good thing, remember that it's not the right thing. Not that it's the wrong thing, but the fact that it's being created and the circumstances surrounding its creation only show that our beloved franchise has been handled in an incompetent manner and that the people who were running it can't seem to just do what they did in DMC3 and stick to the standards given in the first game. Instead, they just give the franchise to another developer, placing that developer in the heat of much hate, and kill off what was an already good idea under the belief that the game wasn't "free" or "let loose" enough. In reality, the franchise just needed some loose ends tied up and a consistent story, nothing that a few retcons and a game full of explanantions can't fix.
So, even though DmC will turn out to be a great game, don't let that blind you from the fact that it's very existence deems DMC as a bad franchise as a whole. What makes things worse is that if you like at what we know so far, you'll find things that the developers at Capcom could've said to fix alot of things and even add to some points of the story. Dante was raised in an orphanage ran by demons? There goes our Nero explanation. Limbo City is controlled by demons? There goes our Sparda storyline. See what I mean? It's almost ironic, if you think about it.
Anyways, sure, there are times where a developer doesn't have to listen to the fans, but this is one of those cases where the fans know more than the developer. We, the fans, know DMC more than NT and probably more than the Capcom Developers. We know who Dante is, we know the Legend of Sparda like the back of our hand, but more importantly, we know what makes DMC what it is and what makes it successful as a franchise. The guys at Capcom struck it right when they made DMC3, but only if they knew that the main reason why we liked it in the first place was because it not only stuck to DMC1 and it surpassed it, gave it more depth and feel than what anyone would've guessed. They have clearly shown they can make a good story, so why not just try again and make another DMC? It's either they are too focused on something else or DMC3 was just a stroke of luck. Either way it goes, if they want to make a DMC game that appeals to the western world or has more of a western flavor, they don't have to look any further than at the fans. We've asked countless times for a sequel to DMC2, why not? All they have to do is just make a better story and keep adding to the gameplay. Why not a game about Sparda? That has so much potential, one drools when thinking of what kind of epic story it might've been. If anything, this isn't the time for the Capcom developers to say "Hey, we want to do things right this time, so we'll just give it to these guys over here" rather they should say "We fell off a little with DMC4, but we'll do better with DMC5! We'll make sure everyone's pleased."
So, while I appluad NT for having such persistence and hope in their project that they ignore our many rants and pleads, I still must shake my head. Sure, DmC will bring the franchise into a fantastic new direction, but it's quite the disappointing way to go. Simply put, Capcom could've done better, whether they want to listen to the fans or not, they just didn't make the best choice.
There is a difference between doing something the way you think is good and actually doing something right.
In video games, the only way to go is the right way, not your's. Sure, you may think an idea is great, and it probably is, but that doesn't make it the right idea. NT and DmC is a good example of this. DmC may turn out to be a great game, but its not needed nor is it right for DMC's revival. So those of you who see DmC as a good thing, remember that it's not the right thing. Not that it's the wrong thing, but the fact that it's being created and the circumstances surrounding its creation only show that our beloved franchise has been handled in an incompetent manner and that the people who were running it can't seem to just do what they did in DMC3 and stick to the standards given in the first game. Instead, they just give the franchise to another developer, placing that developer in the heat of much hate, and kill off what was an already good idea under the belief that the game wasn't "free" or "let loose" enough. In reality, the franchise just needed some loose ends tied up and a consistent story, nothing that a few retcons and a game full of explanantions can't fix.
So, even though DmC will turn out to be a great game, don't let that blind you from the fact that it's very existence deems DMC as a bad franchise as a whole. What makes things worse is that if you like at what we know so far, you'll find things that the developers at Capcom could've said to fix alot of things and even add to some points of the story. Dante was raised in an orphanage ran by demons? There goes our Nero explanation. Limbo City is controlled by demons? There goes our Sparda storyline. See what I mean? It's almost ironic, if you think about it.
Anyways, sure, there are times where a developer doesn't have to listen to the fans, but this is one of those cases where the fans know more than the developer. We, the fans, know DMC more than NT and probably more than the Capcom Developers. We know who Dante is, we know the Legend of Sparda like the back of our hand, but more importantly, we know what makes DMC what it is and what makes it successful as a franchise. The guys at Capcom struck it right when they made DMC3, but only if they knew that the main reason why we liked it in the first place was because it not only stuck to DMC1 and it surpassed it, gave it more depth and feel than what anyone would've guessed. They have clearly shown they can make a good story, so why not just try again and make another DMC? It's either they are too focused on something else or DMC3 was just a stroke of luck. Either way it goes, if they want to make a DMC game that appeals to the western world or has more of a western flavor, they don't have to look any further than at the fans. We've asked countless times for a sequel to DMC2, why not? All they have to do is just make a better story and keep adding to the gameplay. Why not a game about Sparda? That has so much potential, one drools when thinking of what kind of epic story it might've been. If anything, this isn't the time for the Capcom developers to say "Hey, we want to do things right this time, so we'll just give it to these guys over here" rather they should say "We fell off a little with DMC4, but we'll do better with DMC5! We'll make sure everyone's pleased."
So, while I appluad NT for having such persistence and hope in their project that they ignore our many rants and pleads, I still must shake my head. Sure, DmC will bring the franchise into a fantastic new direction, but it's quite the disappointing way to go. Simply put, Capcom could've done better, whether they want to listen to the fans or not, they just didn't make the best choice.
I disagree with the lot of this. In the videogame world there's no such thing as "the right way" to make a game. If there was, ALL games would be all the same. Videogames are about entertainment, experimenting and innovation. The companies try to add something new to each game to keep the games interesting. The thing with the new Devil May Cry is that Ninja Theory didn't just add a little something new, they changed alot of the aesthetics and design which struck alot of the fanbase in a negative way. That doesn't mean the game will turn out bad or "wrong", because there is no recipe for making a videogame the "right" way.
berto
I Saw the Devil
What do mean? How so?
Not ignore, but to build on his creation and further expand it.
Ladies and gentlemen, a metaphor is underway: The telephone! It was created by a certain Mr. Bell and after many years the telephone is now almost completely different than the original. The morale, kids, is this: Just because it is the original doesn't mean it is the best. That's right, hipsters, I said it.
Hideki Kamiya created something great. But today that creation is outdated.
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
I guess you're right then.I could always go on how DMC 3 was superior to DMC 1 or DMC 4.
However,Hideki kamiya's bayonetta made god of war,ninja gaiden and devil may cry 4 inferior in gameplay.His games are great but really underrated.
Makes me wonder what will happen if hideki kamiya was the one who make this reboot.
However,Hideki kamiya's bayonetta made god of war,ninja gaiden and devil may cry 4 inferior in gameplay.His games are great but really underrated.
Makes me wonder what will happen if hideki kamiya was the one who make this reboot.
I think Hideki Kamiya should move on with his life and put his past where it belongs. Behind him. And then create more awesome games like Bayonetta!
darkslayer13
Enma Katana no Kami
Yes, he is not involved in Devil May Cry anymore so his opinion is no more important than anyone else who does not work for Capcom. (Do you expect Capcom to ask someone who works for Platinum games for permission to make decisions about Capcom's series)
You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that there is some proper method or technique that all game developers must adhere to, I'm saying that when you're creating a game, any game, there is a right or wrong way of doing it that defines the game as what it is, not what new innovations it brings. So while DmC is an innovative game for the franchise, it's still a series killer and a testament to the kind of strifes some franchises have to go through just to stay alive in the market. I'm not at all saying that developers should cut their creative edges for the sake of the fans, by no means not that, I'd prefer if they continue adding their ideas, makes things more enjoyable on my part. However, that does not make some notions or ideas right, that's just how society works. Great ideas are shut down simply because they are not right, either by being insignificant, impractical, unnecessary, or it's just not the right time to utilize them. It just comes down to playing the waiting game and doing what's necessary for the moment. NT is in charge of changing a game, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just the overall unnecessity of DmC and how it is wrong for NT to say that pleasing the fans would be bad for game development and that developers should focus on making something that they are proud of. By that logic, there is no such thing as a bad game because all developers do their best to make good games, but then what makes a game good then? And what about the personal feelings of the fans? Sure, I'll enjoy the game but that still won't stop me from the disappointment of never having to experiencing the old DMC ever again. That shouldn't happen. I don't want to feel disappointment, I don't want feel saddened. It should be NT's job, now they that they are DMC's new developer, to please me as much as it is to bring something new to the table, something that I'll enjoy. But I shouldn't be given something bittersweet. That's the intricate relationship between consumer and producer. I, the consumer, don't give two craps about what you give me as long as it's good, but if I'm not going to totally enjoy it, I'm not going to waste my time on it. Why should I? Just because you make a few promises that it'll be worth my while? Oh please, if you haven't got the nerve (yes, the nerve) to give me that full enjoyment, that feeling a person gets when they play a remake or reboot of a franchise and love the changes as much as the nostalgia, then what you are giving me isn't really worth it. This is why developers, no matter who they are, must take fans into account and wrap their games around some (not all) of their criticisms. Otherwise, you are betting on your ability alone and that is a sink-or-swim deal. At this point, now that the some of the hate is dying down and people are beginning to guess upon a certain time frame of release, they should play it safe. Make some fan- pleasing changes here and there (looser pants would be nice), they've added enough of their own touch that DmC stands alone as its own individual game, they could at least do somethings that will bring it a little closer to original franchise. Don't get me wrong, I love what DmC is becoming, those slight tidbits that I know will give me those little slivers of nostalgia, but what makes a remake or a reboot great isn't the changes neither those little slivers, but the complete fusion of old and new. That's what made Sonic Generations good, Super Mario Bros. Wii and DS. If DmC wants to be as good a reboot as these games were remakes, then it needs to blend both new and old perfectly, this is what I mean by the "right" way. Otherwise, it'll be praised for its advancements and nothing else, making it a failure as a reboot and only a success in terms of it being its own game.
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
Well yep he have move on from it when he created bayonetta.However,the fact he said that "We would handle ninja theory's reboot,capcom only needs to ask"
You can still see that he still loves DMC.I also agree with you.He needs to create a game that would surpass devil may cry.
Bayonetta still haven't done that in my opinion.
Meg
Well-known Member
It's like in writing when the author has a fantastic idea, but it's not the right point in the story or series. A writer can't throw in every good idea they have just because it's a good idea. Hell, the idea could be downright brilliant, but if it doesn't work then it isn't the right idea. I've had to cut some epic plot points from many of my stories because they just wouldn't work right. The point is to hold onto those ideas for a later story.
mrrandomlulz
Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
berto
I Saw the Devil
I think I've mentioned this before but in the Platinum games forum we've discused Kamiya's possition on the subject. The moderator, JP, who was the english writer of Bayonetta and friend of Kamiya told us that Kamiya didn't realy care about the change because to him it's all very old news since he felt the same way we feel about the design of the reboot back on DMC2.
Back on subject. Look, I don't like Tameen that much, he comes off rather arogant on every interview I've ever read regarding DMC, but that doesn't mean his always wrong, even though I'd like him to be. In this case, while it's true that letting the fans dictate how the game should be made you shouldn't just ignore them ether, specially in the cosmetic deparment. The whole argument is missplaced since the driving aspect of the game is supposidly it's superior gameplay (which is yet to be seen) and not the design, which is the ponly thing fans have been constantly tearing at.
This is debatable but I belive that this game wouldn't be very high on anyones radar if it wasn't called Devil May Cry. All this talk about how the game will prosper for all it's changes really falls on deaf ears on me since I belive that this cosmetic change is a waste of time and a poor choise of direction on Capcoms part.
Back on subject. Look, I don't like Tameen that much, he comes off rather arogant on every interview I've ever read regarding DMC, but that doesn't mean his always wrong, even though I'd like him to be. In this case, while it's true that letting the fans dictate how the game should be made you shouldn't just ignore them ether, specially in the cosmetic deparment. The whole argument is missplaced since the driving aspect of the game is supposidly it's superior gameplay (which is yet to be seen) and not the design, which is the ponly thing fans have been constantly tearing at.
This is debatable but I belive that this game wouldn't be very high on anyones radar if it wasn't called Devil May Cry. All this talk about how the game will prosper for all it's changes really falls on deaf ears on me since I belive that this cosmetic change is a waste of time and a poor choise of direction on Capcoms part.
Tiran
The great pretender.
It would be another under-appreciated Japanese game with over-the-top style and tight responsive controls. The truth is he'd make just another Devil May Cry with awesome game play. It wouldn't change the world, it wouldn't sell any more than any other Kamiya game would. It wouldn't expand on the brand in any area it had not previously done so. It wouldn't be able to gain a place in the best sellers list that western games now dominate. It'd be a cult favorite of a one dimensional fan-base.