New Interview (08/05)

[McdD]

True, they are paid to do so, but it also means putting heart into it. Yes, I do think CAPCOM not listening to fans was a bad move (or a **** move) I think it was a move that somehow works. However, just cause CAPCOM didn't listen to fans, doesn't mean Ninja Theory also didn't. I mean look at Captivate, there are now moves from the original DMC in there along with new moves too. It's the best of both worlds, but fans can't really see that, cause they're still angry for the large changes. While I feel bad for NT, cause CAPCOM put the baggage of angry fans on them, I'm sure they'll be fine. And judging by what's been seen, they'll make it.

Also, welcome new guy/girl. Hope you like it here^_^

I really don't believe NT is putting their hearts into DmC project for right reasons. As stated they are being paid for it, so a certain level of achievement must be shown by NT. They must show to Gaming industry "We can make a game". They could make a game with good graphics but very crap gameplay, and do that to get out of the project fast and get the money. But then potential employers will take notice and think "No, NT is not good at making games, if we hire them for a project we will be risking huge loss". So as a employee there is a pressure on NT to do well if they plan to accept more jobs in future to earn money for their studio.

Fans do not get angry for no reason. There are always a cause of it.

And i get back to what i said: Tameem contradicts himself. E3 DmC Dante is no longer present. There is no signs of DmC Dante smoking no more, and his character design has been changed plus white hair and red jacket included as DT. So what happened to "Making a game for yourself and not for a fanbase"?

And thanks.

 

[Dante47]

I really don't believe NT is putting their hearts into DmC project for right reasons. As stated they are being paid for it, so a certain level of achievement must be shown by NT. They must show to Gaming industry "We can make a game". They could make a game with good graphics but very crap gameplay, and do that to get out of the project fast and get the money. But then potential employers will take notice and think "No, NT is not good at making games, if we hire them for a project we will be risking huge loss". So as a employee there is a pressure on NT to do well if they plan to accept more jobs in future to earn money for their studio.

Fans do not get angry for no reason. There are always a cause of it.

And i get back to what i said: Tameem contradicts himself. E3 DmC Dante is no longer present. There is no signs of DmC Dante smoking no more, and his character design has been changed plus white hair and red jacket included as DT. So what happened to "Making a game for yourself and not for a fanbase"?

And thanks.

As NT has said, they aren't making the game for you. So whether or not you agree, its not going to change anything this far into development.
In 2010, the game wasn't in full development yet. The trailer was a concept, a unfinished idea.
By 2011, it was slightly farther in development, but still not complete.
2012, they are now almost done.
They didn't "contradict" themselves. By getting rid of the white in his hair, they changed it even more from old Dante. So saying they willed it to a DMC fans pleasure is incorrect.
NT also very, very clearly states they don't care how much it sells. They care about making a game they enjoy.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I really don't believe NT is putting their hearts into DmC project for right reasons. As stated they are being paid for it, so a certain level of achievement must be shown by NT. They must show to Gaming industry "We can make a game". They could make a game with good graphics but very crap gameplay, and do that to get out of the project fast and get the money. But then potential employers will take notice and think "No, NT is not good at making games, if we hire them for a project we will be risking huge loss". So as a employee there is a pressure on NT to do well if they plan to accept more jobs in future to earn money for their studio.

Fans do not get angry for no reason. There are always a cause of it.

And i get back to what i said: Tameem contradicts himself. E3 DmC Dante is no longer present. There is no signs of DmC Dante smoking no more, and his character design has been changed plus white hair and red jacket included as DT. So what happened to "Making a game for yourself and not for a fanbase"?

And thanks.

To be honest, I hated the idea of the devil trigger. Yeah, it's suposse to freeze time to make you look cool but I honestly think it's just a way to pull old fans back in. Other then that, you do have a point on that. Still, even if Tameen didn't mean it, it's still pretty good words to follow if you're going to be a video game developer or an artist, or even a writer.

Who knows, maybe he liked the color scheme of the classic Dante, not to be confused with the clothes old Dante wore, which Tameen said were "not cool anymore."

 

[Jane Sweetbee]

As NT has said, they aren't making the game for you. So whether or not you agree, its not going to change anything this far into development.
In 2010, the game wasn't in full development yet. The trailer was a concept, a unfinished idea.
By 2011, it was slightly farther in development, but still not complete.
2012, they are now almost done.
They didn't "contradict" themselves. By getting rid of the white in his hair, they changed it even more from old Dante. So saying they willed it to a DMC fans pleasure is incorrect.
NT also very, very clearly states they don't care how much it sells. They care about making a game they enjoy.

I think NT has scratched back their concept in 2010 and now we get this DMC3 wannabe DmC. They are not doing what they said.

 

[Dante47]

I think NT has scratched back their concept in 2010 and now we get this DMC3 wannabe DmC. They are not doing what they said.

DMC3 "wannabe" Dante? Sorry. A violent, politically correct, sexual deviant and not only that, a terrorist, in my opinion, is nothing like DMC3 Dante.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I think NT has scratched back their concept in 2010 and now we get this DMC3 wannabe DmC. They are not doing what they said.

For the hundreth time Jane, They never said Dante would lose his witty attitude. The trailer we saw was a small tibit of the actual game that wasn't comeplete yet.

In fact that 2010 trailer was something to keep Devil May Cry known. It was never promised to be how he'd really be the entire game.

 

[McdD]

As NT has said, they aren't making the game for you. So whether or not you agree, its not going to change anything this far into development.
In 2010, the game wasn't in full development yet. The trailer was a concept, a unfinished idea.
By 2011, it was slightly farther in development, but still not complete.
2012, they are now almost done.
They didn't "contradict" themselves. By getting rid of the white in his hair, they changed it even more from old Dante. So saying they willed it to a DMC fans pleasure is incorrect.
NT also very, very clearly states they don't care how much it sells. They care about making a game they enjoy.

You realize DT of DmC Dante is white hair and red jacket? And considering Enslaved selling little and NT loving their game (Enslaved), why would Tameem not hope for good sales? I guess as long NT gets paid they can enjoy the game they made...

And it's weird we got to see concept of DmC in 2010 but we never got to see the concept drawings!

To be honest, I hated the idea of the devil trigger. Yeah, it's suposse to freeze time to make you look cool but I honestly think it's just a way to pull old fans back in. Other then that, you do have a point on that. Still, even if Tameen didn't mean it, it's still pretty good words to follow if you're going to be a video game developer or an artist, or even a writer.

Who knows, maybe he liked the color scheme of the classic Dante, not to be confused with the clothes old Dante wore, which Tameen said were "not cool anymore."

I don't think people with hopes want to become game designers/developers because they want to become greedy money makers like Capcom. So Tameem's "advice" is pretty weird. He or his company are in no position to do as they want with DmC project. It's not their game. So the talk about making a game you will be happy about is just bs i'd say. Especially with Capcom ordering them around.

 

[Sieghart]

I'll let you guys know NT's dante whole personality when the game is released
and yes i'm being sarcastic.

 

[Dante47]

You realize DT of DmC Dante is white hair and red jacket? And considering Enslaved selling little and NT loving their game (Enslaved), why would Tameem not hope for good sales? I guess as long NT gets paid they can enjoy the game they made...

So Dante having the same color scheme (in a certain mode that only last for a couple of seconds) as the old means that his advice of making a game you like is misleading? The DT is such a small part of the game, and Dante having a similar color scheme as the old is more of a homage to the old series rather than a blatant change to the game.
They probably don't care about sales for the reason you listed. I thought they were pretty honest about that part. But they also say they like it not because they get paid, but because its a game that if they were a consumer, they would play. They enjoy game making. Why should they not? To please people who nag at them? To please a man or woman they don't know?

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I don't think people with hopes want to become game designers/developers because they want to become greedy money makers like Capcom. So Tameem's "advice" is pretty weird. He or his company are in no position to do as they want with DmC project. It's not their game. So the talk about making a game you will be happy about is just bs i'd say. Especially with Capcom ordering them around.

It's not like they stole it. CAPCOM said to do it so NT did so with the entention of making something fun.

 

[Nelo_Vergil]

I'll let you guys know NT's dante whole personality when the game is released
and yes i'm being sarcastic.

not bad, you deserve a meme in your honor.

 

[Nelo_Vergil]

I'll let you guys know NT's dante whole personality when the game is released
and yes i'm being sarcastic.

View attachment 140

 

[McdD]

So Dante having the same color scheme (in a certain mode that only last for a couple of seconds) as the old means that his advice of making a game you like is misleading? The DT is such a small part of the game, and Dante having a similar color scheme as the old is more of a homage to the old series rather than a blatant change to the game.
They probably don't care about sales for the reason you listed. I thought they were pretty honest about that part. But they also say they like it not because they get paid, but because its a game that if they were a consumer, they would play. They enjoy game making. Why should they not? To please people who nag at ,them? To please a man or woman they don't know?

As i pointed out earlier in this thread: what makes the core of a game is the gameplay. Story makes the game greater but it does not make the game.

With that let's take a look NT's work:
- 50% gameplay
- 100% story and graphics

On top of that NT has orders from Capcom on how Gameplay, story and character should be like.

So NT is respnsible for around 50% of gameplay. And even story and character design is controlled by Capcom.
And the gameplay and character of DmC is MOSTLY a copy of DMC 1, 2, 3 and 4. Even the story has ideas from DMC.

So with all that: How does Tameem find the freedom to make a game he will be happy with? If i'm not wrong (sarcasm), but DmC Dante was picked by Capcom and previous designs were rejected by Capcom.

And it's not a advice Tameem is giving. He is just defending himself and his companies actions in light of the critism they have received.
As i said NT is in no situation to make a game for themself. Let's see: DmC is a hack and slash, has rebellion, Sparda, Mundus, Dante...and loads of DMC moves. So did Tameem come up with all of these things for DmC because he thought "That's what i would love for DmC!".
No, he followed orders.

The way of thinking "Make a game you will be happy with" applies only in a situation where your not hired by a producer to make game. And if you make a good game, then decide to make a sequel you should be grateful for support from fans and listen to their feedback and not be so egoistic.

Step 1: Make sure your not hired by a producer to make X game.
Step 2: Run wild and make a game for yourself and your team and hope other people will like it.
Step 3: The game was successful.
Step 4: Make a sequel, and also show respect to fans by listening to their constructive feedback.

DmC is a business project and NT is getting paid. The "Make a game you will be happy about" is biggest bs.
Fun = is subjective.
If NT made DmC into a copy of pacman (Not that they would as Capcom is holding their lease), would you still say "Well Tameem is correct you should make a game you yourself find fun and not care about fans"?.

No, you wouldn't. And that proves my point that NT is not in a situation where they have right to think that way, and there is loads of proof that Capcom are right behind their neck with a gun.

Dante in DmC having white hair and red jacket is more of a sales scheme than a tribute to DMC. This is what you should conclude after Capcom wanting to sell 5m units.

Your making DmC project sound like a independt project NT is doing. They are being paid....paid. And the man and woman they don't know are ones ensuring they still got a job as game designers by buying games.

 

[Razyel]

As i pointed out earlier in this thread: what makes the core of a game is the gameplay. Story makes the game greater but it does not make the game.

With that let's take a look NT's work:
- 50% gameplay
- 100% story and graphics

On top of that NT has orders from Capcom on how Gameplay, story and character should be like.

So NT is respnsible for around 50% of gameplay. And even story and character design is controlled by Capcom.
And the gameplay and character of DmC is MOSTLY a copy of DMC 1, 2, 3 and 4. Even the story has ideas from DMC.

So with all that: How does Tameem find the freedom to make a game he will be happy with? If i'm not wrong (sarcasm), but DmC Dante was picked by Capcom and previous designs were rejected by Capcom.

And it's not a advice Tameem is giving. He is just defending himself and his companies actions in light of the critism they have received.
As i said NT is in no situation to make a game for themself. Let's see: DmC is a hack and slash, has rebellion, Sparda, Mundus, Dante...and loads of DMC moves. So did Tameem come up with all of these things for DmC because he thought "That's what i would love for DmC!".
No, he followed orders.

The way of thinking "Make a game you will be happy with" applies only in a situation where your not hired by a producer to make game. And if you make a good game, then decide to make a sequel you should be grateful for support from fans and listen to their feedback and not be so egoistic.

Step 1: Make sure your not hired by a producer to make X game.
Step 2: Run wild and make a game for yourself and your team and hope other people will like it.
Step 3: The game was successful.
Step 4: Make a sequel, and also show respect to fans by listening to their constructive feedback.

DmC is a business project and NT is getting paid. The "Make a game you will be happy about" is biggest bs.
Fun = is subjective.
If NT made DmC into a copy of pacman (Not that they would as Capcom is holding their lease), would you still say "Well Tameem is correct you should make a game you yourself find fun and not care about fans"?.

No, you wouldn't. And that proves my point that NT is not in a situation where they have right to think that way, and there is loads of proof that Capcom are right behind their neck with a gun.

Dante in DmC having white hair and red jacket is more of a sales scheme than a tribute to DMC. This is what you should conclude after Capcom wanting to sell 5m units.

Your making DmC project sound like a independt project NT is doing. They are being paid....paid. And the man and woman they don't know are ones ensuring they still got a job as game designers by buying games.

Then why would Capcom hire NT if they were the ones pulling the strings, you sound like you know what kind of a business deal Capcom has made with NT...

Anyways there would be no point in hiring NT, Capcom could have just made the next DMC by themselves. Besides what the hell would they make if not something that they would enjoy themselves, enjoyable and fun games together with right marketing will always sell...

Capcom is only supervising the "DMC-DNA" so that it can still be recognized as a DMC game. The sales expectations is just Capcom and NT believing in their product, otherwise it would be like saying "This game is **** and we don't expect it to sell anything..."

 

[McdD]

Then why would Capcom hire NT if they were the ones pulling the strings, you sound like you know what kind of a business deal Capcom has made with NT...

Anyways there would be no point in hiring NT, Capcom could have just made the next DMC by themselves. Besides what the hell would they make if not something that they would enjoy themselves, enjoyable and fun games together with right marketing will always sell...

Capcom is only supervising the "DMC-DNA" so that it can still be recognized as a DMC game. The sales expectations is just Capcom and NT believing in their product, otherwise it would be like saying "This game is **** and we don't expect it to sell anything..."

Capcom said they want 5M sales. And DmC is Capcom's product.

DmC gameplay is mostly the same as seen from DMC games. The only things NT brings to the DmC project is the western art, and story. Because Inafune said Japanese market is doomed, and Capcom has listened to him and decided they need to go for western games.

Capcom could have made the next DMC by themself but as i said they want good sales so therefor they have decided to hire western studio NT because of what Inafune said. And also because they realize the have neglected story in DMC games for to long.

As i said fun is subjective and there is already proof showing how Capcom is behind NT with a gun to remind them not to miss the target of DmC project.
Capcom isn't ONLY supervising DMC DNA, they are collaborating with NT on gameplay. And also helping them with frame rates.

TRY TO UNDERSTAND:
If a group of people who wants to become game designers decide to try to make a nice game they should make a game they are happy with. Because that's the right attitude. But such group is not being paid to make the game.

In this case: Capcom, a business, is paying a developer studio to make a game for them. Money is involved. And there is already STRICT lines which NT must draw from.
Gameplay, character, items, story, etc. And the game is made to attract customers.
Is that really so hard to take notice of?

 

[Razyel]

Yes fun in certain terms is subjective but you are saying that for example people who bought GTA IV didn't enjoy it, it just HAPPENED to sell that much because it was created to sell?

If 90/100 people would enjoy a certain game would you say that enjoying is in general subjective, the reasons why you like something can be unique, yet we are all humans, there isn't a one golden rule in game development that says "by doing this kind of game you will sell 5+ million units" so the only logical option is to make something you would enjoy.

 

[McdD]

Yes fun in certain terms is subjective but you are saying that for example people who bought GTA IV didn't enjoy it, it just HAPPENED to sell that much because it was created to sell?

If 90/100 people would enjoy a certain game would you say that enjoying is in general subjective, the reasons why you like something can be unique, yet we are all humans, there isn't a one golden rule in game development that says "by doing this kind of game you will sell 5+ million units" so the only logical option is to make something you would enjoy.

Your missing my point. I agree game designers should make a game they themself want to play, and not care much about input from gamers. But it's appropriate to think that way:

1) When you've been hired by a game producer to make a completely NEW game.
2) If the game studio makes a indie game.

Of course when Heavenly sword 2 and Enslaved 2 is released Ninja theory should make sure they catch some of the constructive feedbacks from fans so that they can apply it to the sequals. But it's game designers themself who should decide how the sequals will be for most parts.

But DmC project is not a new game, and neither have Capcom told NT to make a completely new game. If Capcom said "Make a completely new game but we want it to be a hack and slash", then i would say "Tameem's statement is very good". But that's not the case, Capcom is supervising DmC project carefully.

The gameplay is mostly the same as DMC gameplay, the character is a copy with a non-supernatural character look, and the story has taken ideas from DMC. Mundus for example.

So Tameem's statement about "Make a game you'd want to play yourself" is really "off topic" because his company is in no position to freely change DmC. Furthermore in interviews and from statements by Capcom shows that DmC is catering to the west the most, and the whitehair-redjacket is a way to attract DMC fans. Because Capcom wants 5M units sold, and whatever means necessary to reach that will be made.

In E3 we saw DmC Dante smoke. In newest videos you see nothing of that. A clear proof Ninja theory is making changes, and probably on orders from Capcom.

 

[Xeroxis]

Whoa! I've never seen a flame war like this! No violence or bashing! :O anyway, did anyone check out Game informers interview with NT? They claim one reason for the reboot was not to copy the japanese style DMC franchise, simply because they are not Japanese. (which does make sense). Maybe everyone already knew this, but I thought I'd just put that out there....

 

[Razyel]

Your missing my point. I agree game designers should make a game they themself want to play, and not care much about input from gamers. But it's appropriate to think that way:

1) When you've been hired by a game producer to make a completely NEW game.
2) If the game studio makes a indie game.

Of course when Heavenly sword 2 and Enslaved 2 is released Ninja theory should make sure they catch some of the constructive feedbacks from fans so that they can apply it to the sequals. But it's game designers themself who should decide how the sequals will be for most parts.

But DmC project is not a new game, and neither have Capcom told NT to make a completely new game. If Capcom said "Make a completely new game but we want it to be a hack and slash", then i would say "Tameem's statement is very good". But that's not the case, Capcom is supervising DmC project carefully.

The gameplay is mostly the same as DMC gameplay, the character is a copy with a non-supernatural character look, and the story has taken ideas from DMC. Mundus for example.

So Tameem's statement about "Make a game you'd want to play yourself" is really "off topic" because his company is in no position to freely change DmC. Furthermore in interviews and from statements by Capcom shows that DmC is catering to the west the most, and the whitehair-redjacket is a way to attract DMC fans. Because Capcom wants 5M units sold, and whatever means necessary to reach that will be made.

Of course it has taken things from previous DMCs it's a reboot after all... But making a game sell as much as possible and at the same time making it your "own" shouldn't be that hard, and we have no idea how deeply Capcom is involved in the development, from what I have seen I couldn't believe that Capcom could have pulled this of by themselves. IMO it's just like Burton's batman and Nolan's batman, same character - two different worlds/universes - and DC comics making sure that it still feels like batman.

Dante's red jacket won't make me buy the game, I look at the general reviews or play a demo. And the money they get from Cap doesn't go to NT's pockets, it goes to the development of the game, their true salary comes from the sales.

Of course he means that in general, it's not just one persons opinion it's NT's and Capcom's general opinion but Tam is the director so he speaks for all of them.

Capcom supervising the combat is only logical because it is their strongest point, with games like Street Fighter and Marvel vs Capcom they know how to make good combat. But as far as story and environment is involved it's all NT, that was the reason why they were hired, to give DMC series better story with lesser plotholes and more sense.

If Capcom started to order NT in story development, they would be shooting themselves to their own feet 'cause they screwed up the storyline in the original series, they know they can't afford to be cocky this time...

Anyways this debate isn't going anywhere, so let's just say that we both have our own opinions wich are not easy to change and welcome to the boards McdD

 

[wallenb]

I guess in a way NT doesn't have much freedom beyond story and combat. But visually its completely new as well as stage design. The combat was never going to change much because that would of been the worst mistake NT could have done and thats where Capcom is mostly involved. Its not like the combat is exactly like previous dmc games, NT put in an effort to make it more user friendly but still reward players for their efforts to achieve SSS ranking. Unlike DMC4.

As for the Story, DMC had plenty of loose ends and was filled with random ideas that were only skin deep (demon wall hands) And NT took it a lot further, eventually expanding the world and evolving the plot. And since then, there has been plenty of original NT input to the story and in the combat.
It might not be an original game but NT took what was given to them and to me it looks like a NT game.