New gameplay and new weapon reveal

[TWOxACROSS]

I'm not saying it will not mean there is more variety later in the game. It's that they limit the moves so people feel there's more in the game than there is. DMC did this like I said and it made sense for the PS2 era, but if I start out with the same amount of moves in this game I will rage. And I don't see how starting out a game with plenty of moves or options will deter players from learning what the general combat concepts are. Dodge, attack, launch aren't that hard to learn off the bat Both GOW2 and GOW3 start you off with a complete move list for your blades and that didn't deter people from learning the combat (which you then lose). This isn't a strategy game where you need to be walked through every step, its an action game that seems pretty straight forward, especially when you don't have hard lock on style moves (and looks like directional moves don't exist either). This limited options start is an old development style that has been carried on to this generation (yeah!), and like DMC4 it shouldn't be repeated. But it will because its easier to take away moves than to add more moves. Its probably why I enjoy playing games like Civ4 that even at the start the variety feels overwhelming.

Thinking they did that just because "it was the PS2 era" is absurd. It makes little sense to blame start-game movesets on the era, because that doesn't explain how the endgame movesets fit in. How can the "era" be at all responsible for how many abilities a game starts you with?

"Limiting moves" isn't about giving the illusion of greater variety by the end, and it's not game-padding either. It's growth, it makes you feel as though you're actually working for something. Sure there's things like Kingdom Hearts that have a multitude of character growth elements, but it's not strictly something that's only done in RPGs. Mega Man is a perfect example, or more prominently, Mega Man X - it's all part of growing stronger, and Devil May Cry does this by purchasing new moves with Orbs, the acquisition of which is made easier the better you master the abilities you already have at your disposal.

Man, I'm really starting to think that so many people are completely blinded by the complete post-game world of DMC that they forget how it all starts :/

 

[ccutter]

Has this been posted before? Starts at around 2:40

New weapon.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/dmc/#weapon/aquila

Eccentric man, he is.

That new weapon remind me of the ones Blade uses from the anime. I'm not sure what they're called though.

 

[berto]

you can attack enemies within a dimension under control by Dante's inner power.

So does Dante create another pocket dimention of his own?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So does Dante create another pocket dimention of his own?

He's using his Devil Trigger magic to take control of Limbo, and make it work for him for a little bit. That's why when enemies are launched in the air, it's by spouts of concrete (like when Malice tears apart roads and makes platforms), and alters the gravity (like when Malice makes platforms and stuff float).

 

[Paexie]

Not wrong, you had close to a full move set FOR THE BLADES in GOW2 when you start off as the God of War. In GOW3 you start off with your BLADE's full moveset from the previous game. Both games you lose those after the "first chaper", but my point was that you can have a robust moveset for a game and still learn the basics in the beginning.

A lot of you seem to miss the point. I'm not arguing for you to have the full moveset in the beginning. I'm arguing for a good amount of moves in the beginning that doesnt make you feel cheated like in a lot of action games (like DMC4). GOW was probably the worst because you lost all the moves for your blades after being teased with them. Like they could have offered those moves + a ton of others (but nope), or allowed your blades to be upgraded to a completely different style later. Like I said most developers take out moves in the beginning (that you could easily have) so they don't have to up the ante in the total amount of moves in the game or the variety of moves offered.

But you are missing the one crucial thing for that to work: balancing. As for GOW, has a story related justification for it and it works because it makes you work for that ultimate goal.

If it offered more moves that would take more planning to actually give them function you know. I prefer quality over quantity.

You are sort of negating the fact that games need a learning curve for them to work properly in the long term. Developers don't take out, they place in what is appropriate for the player to experience in the first level of the game so you don't look like a dunce when you are thrown in a bigger level that requires you to act quickly with moves you needed to experiment with in the begging. To learn the functionality of every combo, weapon and skill.

If you are talking about variations on move sets that more or less have the same functions but with different inputs, than you are going to be very disappointed.

 

[crush]

So does Dante create another pocket dimention of his own?

It seems so. I don't know how but possibly malice is a sort of conduit.
When a stronger being channels their energy in it they are granted power over limbo.

 

[wallenb]

That whole beginning reminded me of Enslaved. With the limited move set but complete craziness all around you.

GOW3 took those moves away from you and started you out from GOW 2. BUT you still had to play the game to unlock Kratos full move set. Its like that in any game.

 

[chocolateghost79]

It seems so. I don't know how but possibly malice is a sort of conduit.
When a stronger being channels their energy in it they are granted power over limbo.

Probably explains how Mundus can control Limbo, it's because he's the most powerful demon in the realm.

 

[berto]

I want to see the damn thing in movement before making any judgement but as of now I don't really like the Aquila. It reminds me of GoW3 for some reason and not in a good way.

 

[Dominus]

But you are missing the one crucial thing for that to work: balancing. As for GOW, has a story related justification for it and it works because it makes you work for that ultimate goal.

If it offered more moves that would take more planning to actually give them function you know. I prefer quality over quantity.

You are sort of negating the fact that games need a learning curve for them to work properly in the long term. Developers don't take out, they place in what is appropriate for the player to experience in the first level of the game so you don't look like a dunce when you are thrown in a bigger level that requires you to act quickly with moves you needed to experiment with in the begging. To learn the functionality of every combo, weapon and skill.

If you are talking about variations on move sets that more or less have the same functions but with different inputs, than you are going to be very disappointed.

The story related justification was a lazy cop out so they don't have to work as hard at developing new move sets. I mean that is literally why in GOW3 you lost all your abilities (i recall one video review when a guy was like sigh because of this point).
I guess my point is that previous DMC games (and GOW games) were limited by the amount of vram on the PS2 and the lack of a hard drive. You could only store so many animations for a model to use, so if you gave too many moves early on people would feel there is no variety. Now with next gen we have a lot more hardware capabilities, so instead of you starting out with the same limited moveset give me more options! But everyone seems so inclined to defend what they are used to in games or the "standard". Come on........
I think God Hand actually found a good way to bypass this vram limitation and early moveset limitation by allowing you to customize your move lists. So the early game felt just as diverse and fresh as the later game. Its probably why i replayed it more than DMC3.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Did you ever think it has less to do with vram and "being a standard that we're used to" and more about not creating a bunch of useless extra moves?

Take a fighting game - they can have a multitude of different moves, but that doesn't mean that each of them is useful. DMC as a series is so great because of its "Easy to learn, tough to master style," and it exemplifies putting together the moves available to you to create attack strings. Disregarding the complete number of inputs that can be used with one weapon, how do you go about making more moves for something like Rebellion that aren't redundant in one way or another? Some of Red Queen's moveset gets ignored, and it only had such a large moveset to make up for Nero not getting any other melee weapons. Even Danse Macabre was borderline useless, because it was just an auto-combo that actually uses a bunch of animations from other attacks!

There's also the idea of not inundating the player's skillset with a bunch of stuff to learn, remember, and then try to use. More doesn't always mean better.

And DMC did the exact same thing as Godhand back in the day by limiting your moveset based on what weapons (and Style) you had equipped.

 

[Dominus]

Did you ever think it has less to do with vram and "being a standard that we're used to" and more about not creating a bunch of useless extra moves?

Take a fighting game - they can have a multitude of different moves, but that doesn't mean that each of them is useful. DMC as a series is so great because of its "Easy to learn, tough to master style," and it exemplifies putting together the moves available to you to create attack strings. Disregarding the complete number of inputs that can be used with one weapon, how do you go about making more moves for something like Rebellion that aren't redundant in one way or another? Some of Red Queen's moveset gets ignored, and it only had such a large moveset to make up for Nero not getting any other melee weapons. Even Danse Macabre was borderline useless, because it was just an auto-combo that actually uses a bunch of animations from other attacks!

There's also the idea of not inundating the player's skillset with a bunch of stuff to learn, remember, and then try to use. More doesn't always mean better.

Moves are only useless if you design them to be useless. Dance Macabre was designed to be a style move because DMC3 was about "stylish combat" to get those SS rank missions... I actually think they made it pretty useful in DMC4 in its altered form. Look at beowulf in DMC3 I used practically all those moves. Also I used most if not all of red queens moves in combat. The exceed system helped make certain situational moves more useful as well... but having variety of combos in DMC matters for building up your style meter which is a part of your mission rank.

And fighting games can have useless moves but fighting games aren't balanced specifically around an AI, and a lot of times previous "useless" moves may end up having use in the end meta game. Also fighting games have to be balance tons of moves for around 30 characters or more, so you will get useless moves just because you're balancing a 1000 moves. Dante in MvC3 had a decent amount of useless moves, but some people found uses for some of them later on... I'd say that's why I find Vergil in MvC3 more boring because he has less moves and pretty limited combo options (for the most optimal damage).

Easy to learn tough to master I see used so much its almost lost all meaning. People don't use this attitude towards a lot of strategy games or RPGs... Having complex combat systems sometimes require you to learn aspects of the game that don't come easy that are fundamental to playing and progressing through the game.. like God hand.. These type of games don't sell well to the average player though so they aren't made as much... I'd consider DMC3 not be easy to pickup, and that's why automatic easy mode is there for people....

And DMC did the exact same thing as Godhand back in the day by limiting your moveset based on what weapons (and Style) you had equipped.

Not necessarily.. An example I use is try playing a fresh DMC3 game on DMD mode and your move list is drastically small for the power and tools you need, but if you play a fresh start God Hand Kick me sign run, you have a lot of options in the beginning combat wise. Though DMC3 does pick up when you finally get a new melee weapon......

 

[KnightBatman]

Aquila reminds me of the saw blades from Van Helsing lol Nice little shots of the new weapons and feels GREAT to see that opening level. Looks like we're getting introduced to this new world and new Dante with INCREDIBLE STAIRISHU!

 

[ZeroLove]

Oooh, it looks like a weapon I will use alot. I love the design and the fact they look like two big shurikens. ^^
Also, at least it looks like there are SOME Asian people who like the game. ;D

Oh, and Dominus. It isn't unusual for games, even all new ones, to start out slow and build up when it comes to weapons and moves to use with your character. But it seems like you are just reaching for things to complain about.

 

[Sieghart]

Thank you very much!
he controls the entire realm!? That's insane! That explains why the environment changes during his DT.

That sounds cool and all but don't you think it's a bit overpowering? If he controls the entire demonic realm then he is like a god when he is at the devil trigger state lol

 

[Paexie]

That sounds cool and all but don't you think it's a bit overpowering? If he controls the entire demonic realm then he is like a god when he is at the devil trigger state lol

I think he has a limit to how much he could control (bosses aren't that effected by it), after all, he would be able to all demons easily if that was the case.

@Dominus: quality over quantity. I rather have few moves with tons of function than many with oddly specific functions that might not be all that useful (not even for the style ranking) at the end of the day. Neither your philosophy or mine is bad, but you saying that this is "holding back because it's easy not to make so many functional moves" is really really skewed. You need to take everything else into account! These aren't ps2 graphics anymore, these environments aren't standing still and how many enemies can you have before everything drops?

But like I said, that's just what you'd prefer and I'd really recommend you Hagane (if you like sidescrollers that kickass), you're really into "the many moves but no adequate learning curve". Unfortunately the game is super rare, but there are tons of emulators. It's also highly unforgiving. NO SAVE FEATURE YO. YOU DIE. THAT'S IT.

BUT IT'S FREAKING AWESOME.

 

[crush]

But like I said, that's just what you'd prefer and I'd really recommend you Hagane (if you like sidescrollers that kickass), you're really into "the many moves but no adequate learning curve". Unfortunately the game is super rare, but there are tons of emulators. It's also highly unforgiving. NO SAVE FEATURE YO. YOU DIE. THAT'S IT.

BUT IT'S FREAKING AWESOME.

WAIT! I played this game on Virgin Atlantic...my first trip to England!
I never got the chance to know the title of it! Geez...Thanks! I'm just so relieved! Out of my words!

 

[Alittleacorn]

I did, and it confirmed my thoughts about Rebellion only appearing within Limbo, it's also linked to his tattoo, which also owes to why the tattoo flashes every time Dante switches weapons.

I think it was mentioned briefly in an interview ages ago. Don't ask me to go find it though becaues that'd be a needle in haystack o_o

I like that idea that there's more explaination to how the Rebellion appears and how his weapons work. Interesting it's all link to his tattoo/birthmark. Wonder if it'll play into anything important in the plot o.o.

What about Ebony and Ivory though, are they demon/angel weapons, or just ordinary guns?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Oooh, it looks like a weapon I will use alot. I love the design and the fact they look like two big shurikens. ^^
Also, at least it looks like there are SOME Asian people who like the game. ;D

It'll still be Osiris for me. I love me some scythe action!

I think it was mentioned briefly in an interview ages ago. Don't ask me to go find it though becaues that'd be a needle in haystack o_o

I like that idea that there's more explaination to how the Rebellion appears and how his weapons work. Interesting it's all link to his tattoo/birthmark. Wonder if it'll play into anything important in the plot o.o.

What about Ebony and Ivory though, are they demon/angel weapons, or just ordinary guns?

I like how Rebellion really does morph into all the weapons, too, and you can see remnants of Rebellion's design on each of the weapons so far as well, like the pommel on the snaith of the scythe is Rebellion's, the whole pole of Arbiter is an elongated version of Rebellion's grip, and the Eryx's design on the forearm is the same spiral design on Rebellion, too.

If I remember correctly, E&I are also supposed to be a nephilim weapon, too, because those grips certainly don't look human >.< Although he places them at the small of his back, into his waistline, so they might be his only weapon available outside of Limbo. Actually, in that exchange taking place on the highway, Dante is holding his pistols at Lilith, but he's in the human world, so I'd imagine they are his only weaponry outside of Limbo - or, all his weapons are "stored" in his tattoo, and he doesn't want to draw attention to himself having a broadsword on his back. I'd imagine the former though.

 

[Tiran]

Doesn't explain why Vergil's weapon is always at hand no matter were he is.