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New Devil May Cry will teach casuals the "magic" of pro gaming

ChaserTech

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
I just recently saw this being discussed on GameFAQs not too long ago.
But honestly I have extremely mixed feelings about this.

I'm alright with having new players within the series but if the bar is set to so low for achieving "pro" gameplay, then does this make us seem a bit lazy? As well as unmotivated to gain skill?

Like I said, I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. But feel free to discus the link below.



http://www.oxm.co.uk/48901/new-devi...he-magic-of-pro-gaming-entry-bar-is-very-low/
 
Guess that means I've still got a chance to become good at DmC :troll:
Seriously though, I've been thinking about that from time to time, and while I myself am basically a noob when it comes to doing all those crazy-awesome combos (despite playing for 5 years now (-_-);;), I kinda don't like it either :/
I really don't get why it was needed to be done "commerciallly". It's not like it was required to be able to pull off pro moves to play and enjoy DMC. If anything they could say like, "'k, DMC3 regular edition was just really hard and probably chased away some players, so we should consider making it easier!" but, well, they already kinda did that with DMC3 SE and DMC4. But making combos easier? I mean, I didn't even know of all that stuff you can do in a DMC game until recently, so why would that drive anybody away form playing?
But on overall, I guess that there are still enough things only really really good players will be able to do. Like, JCing didn't become easier with such moves as Helmbreaker (at least not for me :P) and things like Stinger or Rainstorm are now more difficult to do (I still don't fully undertand how to do Rainstorm in this game ._.). So I guess it'll kinda outweight itself?
 
I love the new combat. In previous DMC's I found myself getting screwed over when focusing on multiple enemies... sometimes I would do a small combo, and plan to follow up with the guns... but instead Dante would spin around and lock on to a different enemy and I'd be like "What the hell".
The auto-lock hasn't failed me yet as far as swords and guns go. The angel pull fails me quite a bit though.
 
Sunaka Marién said:
But on overall, I guess that there are still enough things only really really good players will be able to do. Like, JCing didn't become easier with such moves as Helmbreaker (at least not for me :P)
Click to expand...

Well you could never JC Helm Breaker consistently unless you were on the ground in DMC4. And it still required timing and precision. (a LOT more than DmC). Especially if you wanted it to look perfect.

In DmC, whenever you JC Helm Breaker multiple times, you could do it as soon as you hit the enemy until you hit the ground.

However in DMC4 if you wanted to JC Helm Breaker in midair ,as well as hitting the enemy with it, you needed to be at a certain height above the enemy. You could only do it at a specific point and if you missed, you plummeted.
Even if Helm Breaker is hard to JC, that doesn't mean every other move that Dante uses is also harder than the previous games. It's a lot easier to JC now since the enemies are stunned longer than DMC4/DMC3. (Which I should have compared in my comparison video about DmC vs DMC4) As well as this, the range for you to JC is increased tenfold.


Sunaka Marién said:
and things like Stinger or Rainstorm are now more difficult to do (I still don't fully undertand how to do Rainstorm in this game ._.). So I guess it'll kinda outweight itself?
Click to expand...

Rainstorm is done by pressing Square and X (PS3) or A and X (Xbox 360)
I wouldn't consider Stinger being harder to execute though. Just more awkward imo.

And I don't think a few "difficult" executions over-weigh the past DMCs in terms of combat skill. Not by a long shot.
 
Gbraga said:
It's alright to want to lower the entry bar to have more people in, as long as they don't lower the ceiling.
Click to expand...
The thing is, I'm all for making games easier for people to get into, usually with a smooth learning curve. However, in DmC the skill ceiling have been lowered sadly enough.
 
MultiBro said:
The thing is, I'm all for making games easier for people to get into, usually with a smooth learning curve. However, in DmC the skill ceiling have been lowered sadly enough.
Click to expand...
From what I've played and seen, I agree. But being a long time Ninja Theory fan, I can't help but still feel like they did a very good job, just compare Heavenly Sword's and Enslaved's combat to DmC's, it's a huge step forward, even though it's still far from the top tier level we're used to. That's why I still remain optmistic about the game.

If I could make a suggestion that could change DmC 2 completely and make it just as good as the previous (aside from changing that 30fps engine) it would be hiring tragic from Vigil to be their combat designer, his work with Darksiders II and skills with fighting games speak for themselves.
 
I like how Gbraga put it, and technically, with access to all the classics so easily, the ceiling isn't really lowered. DmC is supposed to be that lowered entry point and pull more people in. If DmC's ceiling is only several bottom floors on the DMC Skillz skyscraper (so to speak) they'll be supporting the rest of the franchise when they grab the classics, after hearing there's more fun, and more challenge to be had in the rest of the series.

But...no...we get everyone saying to just forget DmC, but the whole point of DmC was to get more people into the groove of what type of game the DMC franchise is. The spirit is all there: multi-form combos, juggles, cancels, and DmC just allows that entry point. Then, when they've conquered DmC, they can snag the classics and hit the ground running.
 
Gbraga said:
From what I've played and seen, I agree. But being a long time Ninja Theory fan, I can't help but still feel like they did a very good job, just compare Heavenly Sword's and Enslaved's combat to DmC's, it's a huge step forward, even though it's still far from the top tier level we're used to. That's why I still remain optmistic about the game.

If I could make a suggestion that could change DmC 2 completely and make it just as good as the previous (aside from changing that 30fps engine) it would be hiring tragic from Vigil to be their combat designer, his work with Darksiders II and skills with fighting games speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
True enough, when compared to NTs previous games, DmCs combat is immensly better.

>Tragic
>DmC2

If they get rid of the angsty Donte in DmC2 (If they ever make one), I wouldn't say no to that. Darksiders 2 combat had some crazy potential.
 
Sunaka Marién said:
Like, JCing didn't become easier with such moves as Helmbreaker (at least not for me :P) and things like Stinger or Rainstorm are now more difficult to do (I still don't fully undertand how to do Rainstorm in this game ._.). So I guess it'll kinda outweight itself?
Click to expand...

I actually just turned Gun Special into a key of its own, makes it easier. Right now, my (PS3) control scheme is...

X = Jump
Square = Shoot
Triangle = Melee Attack
Circle = Special Attack
L1 = Angel Mode
R1 = Demon Mode
L2 = Gun Special
R2 = Evade
L3 = Target Switch
R3 = Camera Snap
D-Pad Down = Devil Trigger

If you don't use Demon Evade all that much, replacing an Evade button with the Gun Special is easier. Heck, I still Demon Evade, and I work fine with that set-up :p I'z gotz teh tricky fingaz
 
TWOxACROSS said:
Then, when they've conquered DmC, they can snag the classics and hit the ground running.
Click to expand...

But I thought Alex Jones stated that DmC's combat would be more evolved, as well as adding more depth, than the previous games? By that statement, shouldn't DmC's combat be better than the previous games?
 
MultiBro said:
If they get rid of the angsty Donte in DmC2 (If they ever make one), I wouldn't say no to that. Darksiders 2 combat had some crazy potential.
Click to expand...

Seriously man...don't say crap like that..."angst" doesn't even apply to what you're trying to say :/
 
ChaserTech said:
But I thought Alex Jones stated that DmC's combat would be more evolved, as well as adding more depth, than the previous games? By that statement, shouldn't DmC's combat be better than the previous games?
Click to expand...

I'd rather the games speak for themselves. Nothing against Alex Jones, but I listen to what the devs have to say, but I take the game's presentation itself to heart. I think this combat is "evolved" in the way some controls are handled, and in someways, it works, some it doesn't >.< The lock-on would be awesome, no doubt, but some of the ways they built the combat without having to require it was cool. I feel a little less restricted not having to lock myself into focus on one target sometimes.

I think after this, the best thing they could do is actually knock heads together with the respectful pros of DmC and DMC, and hash out the best things from both versions. If you were to give me a bit of time, I could hash out a control system combining the two. If you guys are curious, I'll give it a try, but it'll be a bit of a read, giving reasons for it all.
 
ChaserTech said:
But I thought Alex Jones stated that DmC's combat would be more evolved, as well as adding more depth, than the previous games? By that statement, shouldn't DmC's combat be better than the previous games?
Click to expand...
You would not expect them to say that the game is worse than the previous entries, right? PR is normally full of bull anyway. I'll judge a game after I play it.
 
MultiBro said:
Sorry, I just don't like Dantes new personality. :/
Click to expand...

Just try to hold off for now. I know he's a dick, we all know :p but there's more to him than the "in your face" stuff they keep advertising. I think Dante in this starts off more "sardonic" than anything. He's certainly not emo or angsty :)
 
CheeseKao said:
You would not expect them to say that the game is worse than the previous entries, right? PR is normally full of bull anyway. I'll judge a game after I play it.
Click to expand...

TWOxACROSS said:
I'd rather the games speak for themselves. Nothing against Alex Jones, but I listen to what the devs have to say, but I take the game's presentation itself to heart. I think this combat is "evolved" in the way some controls are handled, and in someways, it works, some it doesn't >_< The lock-on would be awesome, no doubt, but some of the ways they built the combat without having to require it was cool. I feel a little less restricted not having to lock myself into focus on one target sometimes.

I think after this, the best thing they could do is actually knock heads together with the respectful pros of DmC and DMC, and hash out the best things from both versions. If you were to give me a bit of time, I could hash out a control system combining the two. If you guys are curious, I'll give it a try, but it'll be a bit of a read, giving reasons for it all.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, it's just whenever I hear someone who works for a game compares it to previous game titles, I take their word fairly seriously. But then again, you guys maybe right.

I'll just sit back and wait to see some high level DmC gameplay.
 
MultiBro said:
True enough, when compared to NTs previous games, DmCs combat is immensly better.

>Tragic
>DmC2

If they get rid of the angsty Donte in DmC2 (If they ever make one), I wouldn't say no to that. Darksiders 2 combat had some crazy potential.
Click to expand...
And he actually stated that they restrained themselves because it wasn't a hack'n'slash game (!!!!!!), imagine what tragic would do with a Devil May Cry game, it would be INSANE.
 
Gbraga said:
And he actually stated that they restrained themselves because it wasn't a hack'n'slash game (!!!!!!), imagine what tragic would do with a Devil May Cry game, it would be INSANE.
Click to expand...

I had to be a cave dweller, but what does Tragic deals with?
I don't find myself playing many new games since I'm a college student and I'm broke.
 
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