Is Vergil good or evil in DMC3? And Why?

[Pale Rider]

Are you saying a human life is insignificant as a cock-roach?????:lol:

No!! I actually meant that as much as I'm disgusted by cockroaches and tend to squish them even if I'm in somebody's elses house, Vergil is disgusted more or less in the same manner by the humans. Afterall, he is shown loathing his human side.

Atleast, by the eco-system, Humans are a bit more significant than a cock-roach.

Even the teeniest tiniest micro-organisms are equally important.

By that logic, Non-vegetarians are murderers.:lol:

But they are! xD

 

[EnJ]

...
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Oh jesus, it's language barier or something. How many time I try to rpove that you wrong in you thoughts? I try to convince you that DMC3 enviroment is the best, or DMC3 music is the best or at least something like this. I was aruing once about Vergil behavior because of theme of thread and thats all. So why did you think that i'm hurt so much frome your criticize of DMC3. You use my "telepathy powers"? In this forum a lot of people who criticize DMC3\4 you not hte only one. But you only one who think that your opinion is only correct. And ffs it's not a objective opinion. Why it's so hard to understand =( Or you believe in placebo effect?

 

[ROCKMAN X]

?

This guy sums it up pretty well >

Dude, let's end this. I guess you completely understand that this is off-topic and going in circles. 3 people have tried to tell the same thing, one is "stupid butthurt fanboy", one is "bipolar", and you have yet to start an "objective argument"l.

 

[Lionheart]

And you stop dismissing the entire argument by calling it "Your opinion" you have yet to actually start an objective argument from your side instead of just going "You're wrong"

You might as well just say "I'm just not objective/open-minded enough to participate in this argument so i disagree"

Well i can also say that you have to prove them wrong in a completely objective argument not a fanboy prattle like this.

Sure, you can argue that the most important thing about DMC level design is that it has 'a good, strong atmosphere'. If you think atmosphere is the most important thing for DMC games to have, fine, but don't call it a fact that DMC1 had better level design. What if I think it's important for the DMC games to have easily traversable fighting arenas? Or a lot of different height levels (stories, I mean)? Am I, according to you, wrong for feeling that way? And even if DMC1 has better level/stage design, why would that make DMC1 a better game overall? I think DMC games are about more than just the fighting stages, important though they may be.

And so you see, we all have different criteria on which to base our opinions. Some reviewers even find story more important than gameplay, and will count it twice in their scoring of games, while gameplay is counted once. Would you say they are 'wrong'? It's an opinion, and opinions should never be called facts. I agree that if DMC1 has more atmospheric stages, that's a fact. But that doesn't make those stages 'better' by default. Seriously, it's Chancey all over again. DMC4 wasn't to his liking, and DMC4 Dante wasn't either, but that doesn't mean the game was bad. It just means he didn't like it, and thus puts less emotional value on it. However, the objective value of the game remains the same.

If you don't want to acknowledge all that, and only reply by saying we're fanboys, go ahead, but it doesn't help your cause. You said you don't care about anyone's opinions, and yet, opinions are what you've put forth. So why should I care about your opinions if you don't care about others'?

''Hmm yeah that's your argument here right ?? "You are WRONG! STOP BELITTLING MY FAV GAME!" IT IS THE MOST PERFECT GAME IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING AND SHOULD NOT BE CRITIQUED BY ANYONE ! If someone does... that guy better be joking''. Yeah, I don't believe he said anything to make you think he wants to defend DMC3 from any and all criticism. These are your thoughts, not his. From these thoughts, I can gather that you can't see him in a normal light. You have contempt for him, so how can you have an unbiased argument if you're biased towards him and thus invested in proving him wrong no matter what?

''For example the point about "all DMC3 environment looks like a fightings arenas, so they bad". Want some similar point of view? "all DmC environment looks like chaotic flying rocks, so they bad." Yeahho, i proved that DmC design sucks, now i only need to type word Fact in brackets, bold it and Ok.'' EnJ has a good point here, actually. A lot of stages in DmC do seem like these floating pieces of rock. Does that make it terrible? No. It depends on your taste, I guess.

To end with a quote from you, to illustrate these are mostly opinions, not facts:
''IMO i think the crticim is legit DMC hasn't been artistically consistent DMC 2 was overly dark&bland and DMC 3 was overly flashy unlike DMC 1 which was a perfect blend of old resident evil's atmosphere and gothic art.''
The criticism was regarding DMC3's look. People didn't like the anime style, which is understandable. I know DMC hasn't been artistically consistent, which is a shame, but that doesn't say anything about the value of DMC3's graphics, art style and characters. If you think DMC needs to have a perfect blend of resi atmosphere and gothic art, that's your opinion. Some people may feel that DMC should be anime-like, so that doesn't make them wrong; it's just a matter of preference. DMC3 is not an inferior game 'because the art style doesn't match that of DMC1'. No offense, but it's very easy to mistake your quote for discrimination against DMC3 because it doesn't look a lot like DMC1.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Way too off-Topickk/fanboy drivel

Quote of the day: DanTe_InCoGniTo said:↑

Dude, let's end this. I guess you completely understand that this is off-topic and going in circles. 3 people have tried to tell the same thing, one is "stupid butthurt fanboy", one is "bipolar", and you have yet to start an "objective argument"l.

thanks @dante_incongnito i owe you one ;D

 

[MephistoCarnival]

I don't care actually as long as he makes some legit points if he gets to Mephisto's bipolar level then i'll simply ignore him.

Bipolar? Since when I became bipolar?
I have yet to witness this prejudice.
It's weird because I don't identify myself as such.
At least I'm not the person to call people 'butthurt' 'fanboys' 'bipolar' just because they happen to have a different point of view without me insulting your preferences.

Anyway,putting this aside.

I think Vergil is neither good nor evil. He's extremely selfish. I find him to be just like myself in a situation when my house is infested by roaches and I call pest control to kill every last one of them. For us humans, that is far from evil but if roaches could could speak, I'd be the evil-est of the evil.

Fair comparison.
I do find him selfish and arrogant, and he doesn't even have that sense of honour he believes he has,it's a matter of perspective,from his point of view,he believes what he does is considered honourable,but his actions prove otherwise.I think he's honourable only when it comes to fighting.

It's a villain thing.What they consider right and fair, for us it's bad and evil.For a half-demon like him,his actions are normal,his hunger for power is normal,getting rid of the weaks is normal and so on.
But for Dante,who's more fond of his human side,Lady etc,it's a matter of winning against the evil side.

Oh,and poor cockroaches,I feel bad for them but I can't have them infesting my house.
The logic is the same for the game.

PS: I think you quoted the wrong person in your previous post.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

Quote of the day: DanTe_InCoGniTo said:↑ thanks @dante_incongnito i owe you one ;D

I think you were the one who called me bipolar and the other ones fanboys and butthurt.
Not to add that there were 3 of us who told you the same thing and nobody to tell him anything.

I think DanTe_InCoGniTo quoted the wrong person.

 

[Lionheart]

Quote of the day: DanTe_InCoGniTo said:↑ thanks @dante_incongnito i owe you one ;D

That's a disappointing response. Come on, you can do better than that. I'm not defending DMC3 at all, I don't think DMC3 is necessarily better than DMC1. I did tell you, however, that this is all subjective. If you think DMC should have a mix of gothic and RE-style graphics, good for you, but that doesn't make DMC3's style any less valuable. In your eyes it does, in my eyes it doesn't. If you feel DMC1's stages were more atmospheric, sure, I could see that's a fact. What's not a fact, however, is that that makes DMC1's stages better by default.

Look, if you don't want to read my post, don't. Just say so. But at the very least don't respond by calling what I said 'drivel' without giving any arguments as to why that is. DMC3 is not a worse game than DMC1 just because you feel it should've looked more like DMC1. By that logic, not a single hack and slash game would be good enough for you.

Anyway, Vergil is evil. Sure, he's selfish. I admitted he is. But killing people just because they're in your way? Killing members of your own species (kind of, not considering he's part demon)? Not being part of society but rather endangering it? Probably putting people in danger by releasing demons on a city when he erected the Temen Ni Gru, not really caring what happens to them? Yeah, it's selfish, but it's also immoral. Selfishness does not cancel out evilness, in my opinion. I don't see Vergil as insane - I think he may have reasons for doing what he does, as he tells Dante ''without strength, you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself''. Whether he was talking about Dante or himself (or both) is not clear. I can see him wanting to preserve Sparda's legacy by having a child. Dante... I don't know, he's more like the eternal bachelor, in my eyes.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

.

Don't worry,he's the one who tells you you're off-topic,yet he's the one who's always bringing into question DMC1 art direction.

And calls us 'fanboys'

*sigh* What a sad world we live in.
Not to mention I'm not even a guy.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

That's a disappointing response. Come on, you can do better than that.

Sorry i'm bored of you guys just like @Dante_incognito said i'm not interested in an argument which is going basically in circles.

however, that this is all subjective.

I get this a lot and listen this well it isn't... only your personal tastes are subjective however everything else outside that isn't the problem comes when your personal taste gets attached to something which is generally objective... like technical level designing,Screenwriting quality,Acting etc etc

What you're saying is basically subjectivity fallacy or as i would like to call it fanboy fallacy i think everything in the game completely objective and you're pretty much hellbent on claiming that it isn't if that was even tiny-weeny bit of true professional critics won't exist because everything is "Bad" of "Good" only from that person "subjective" POV.

But at the very least don't respond by calling what I said 'drivel' without giving any arguments as to why that is

Ha ha deja vu ?? that's what i said to everyone here.

DMC3 is not a worse game than DMC1

I never claimed it was and again i'm only interested in having objective arguments i care less about anyone's personal preferences and when people bring that up in argument it annoys me because what you prefer is completely SUBJECTIVE.

By that logic, not a single hack and slash game would be good enough for you.

Nothing is perfect,everything is flawed.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Could we perhaps get back to the topic at hand?

 

[EnJ]

... something which is generally objective... like technical level designing,Screenwriting quality,Acting etc etc

It's can be objective for professionals in this sphere. Because they know how it's done and they have something to compare with. The fact that you play a lot of games didn't make you professional.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Because they know how it's done and they have something to compare with. The fact that you play a lot of games didn't make you professional.

No not really they just normal gamers just like us and we're just as capable of finding out Pros&Cons of anything.

I said professional because they actually are the ones who get paid for their opinions.

 

[Lionheart]

Sorry i'm bored of you guys just like @Dante_incognito said i'm not interested in an argument which is going basically in circles.I get this a lot and listen this well it isn't... only your personal tastes are subjective however everything else outside that isn't the problem comes when your personal taste gets attcehed to something which is generally objective... like technical level designing,writing quality etc etc

Did you read what I said? I said DMC1 no doubt has more atmospheric stages. However, that doesn't mean those stages are designed better. I feel that DMC3 allows you to move around well and fight demons very well by allowing you to perform sophisticated combos. These are two separate things, and what I'm saying is that one is not worth more than the other. Not objectively, anyway. Subjectively, maybe.

What you're saying is basically subjectivity fallacy or as i would like to call it fanboy fallacy i think everything in the game completely objective and you're pretty much hellbent on claiming it isn't if that was even tiny-weeny bit of true video game critics won't exist because everything is "Bad" of "Good" only from that person "subjective" POV.Ha ha deja vu ?? that's what i said to everyone here.I never claimed it was and again i'm only interested in having an objective arguments i care less about anyone's personal preferences and when people bring that up in argument it annoys me because what you prefer is completely SUBJECTIVE.Nothing is perfect,everything is flawed.

Tiny-weeny is not a word. Teeny-weeny, perhaps? My point is that so many critics exist because a lot of these things are subjective. If everything were objective and had the same value regardless of opinions, why would Splinter Cell Blacklist get a 9.2 from IGN and a 6/10 from another website? If the game is objectively good in every area, how the heck can it get a 6/10? I think a lot of things are objective, but definitely not everything. The soundtrack, for instance. You can't objectively say Noisia is worse or better than rock soundtracks in DMC1 to DMC3.

Objectively, you could say DMC3 has more efficient battle stages. What you can't say is that DMC1's stages have a stronger atmosphere, and are therefore 'absolutely better than DMC3's stages in every way'. You're talking about atmosphere, after all, and atmosphere is not the only thing that makes or breaks game design.
So, do you understand now that although objectively, you are correct that DMC's atmosphere is better than DMC3's, that doesn't mean that everything about those stages is better? And that it doesn't mean that DMC3 is worse than DMC1 in every way? We place different values on atmosphere. You think it's extremely important, while I think it's important, but doesn't make or break the game. I never said I think everything is subjective; I said I think some things are objective and some things are subjective. And that's the end of it. If you still don't understand, it's out of my hands now.

 

[EnJ]

I'm talking not about jurnalists or rewievrs.
For example, only professional screenwriter can be really objective in scenario question, because he know the "rules" how those should be done, the basics, main elements etc.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

For example, only professional screenwriter can be really objective in scenario question, because he know the "rules" how those should be done, the basics, main elements etc.

Just like how only geologists can put a rational estimate on how old earth is.

But here we're talking about general entertainment everyone knows about it and therefore everyone can have an objective view on that simple as that.

 

[EnJ]

And once again. Music also is general entertainment, can you tell me who is technically better: Megadeath or metallica?

 

[Lionheart]

Just like how only geologists can put a rational estimate on how old earth is.

But here we're talking about general entertainment everyone knows about it and therefore everyone can have an objective view on that simple as that.

I do have to agree on that one. I mean, I'd like to think a lifetime of playing video games has given me an understanding of what's good and what's bad. What works and what doesn't. I mean, I'm pretty sure the reviewers from Gamespot or whichever site don't have a degree in drama either, but they can still review the characters and the plot. I don't need to slap open a book that says ''you can't do this, but this thing here is really good''. Education is usually most handy as a substitute for experience, and as a supplement to it, but not as a way to deprecate experience.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

Education is usually most handy as a substitute for experience, not as a way to deprecate experience.

Too sad that the education system doesn't prove as efficient as it wants to seem like when it comes to improving the school/college life and teaching pupils more basic and helpful stuff that will help them later in life.

And once again. Music also is general entertainment, can you tell me who is technically better: Megadeath or metallica?

Who is better is an objective thing,who you prefer is something exclusively subjective.
For example I prefer Metallica over Megadeth,but I can't say for sure who is better since I haven't listened to Megadeth.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

And once again. Music also is general entertainment, can you tell me who is technically better: Megadeath or metallica?

That topic needs another thread.... this thread is already getting out of hand >_> both are generally very great bands its just really hard to come to a conclusion just like that.

Its like saying if you like Snoop Dogg or Eminem both have their artistic merits and its really hard to compare them on a technical level when it comes to that.