Is it only me or someone else...?
- Thread starter Gel
- Start date
MigsRZXAStylish
In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
I'm kinda interested in what Gel has to say because she may have some valid reasons why...
And you said that DmC Dante isn't the original Dante from the old games? A lot of fans keep saying that over and over again. So that's like saying DMC2 to DMC4 "Dante"s aren't from Kamiya-san, so they are not "Dante" at all. DMC1 purists keep saying that...
And back to topic:
I think Gel is trying to point out DMC Dante's flaws, but she is referring to DMC4 and DMC Anime "Dante"s as what you said DS.
P.S.
Just to let you know DS, the only "Dante" I like the most is from DMC1, but my most fav DMC game is DMC3.
The Dino acronym has already been overused for over three years now. DMC2 to DMC4 "Dantes" are different iterations anyway, even more so from DMC1 Dante. "Dino" is no exception. So there are fans who got tired of people using that acronym over and over... like me...
And you said that DmC Dante isn't the original Dante from the old games? A lot of fans keep saying that over and over again. So that's like saying DMC2 to DMC4 "Dante"s aren't from Kamiya-san, so they are not "Dante" at all. DMC1 purists keep saying that...
And back to topic:
I think Gel is trying to point out DMC Dante's flaws, but she is referring to DMC4 and DMC Anime "Dante"s as what you said DS.
P.S.
Just to let you know DS, the only "Dante" I like the most is from DMC1, but my most fav DMC game is DMC3.
Gel
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Okay, let's go...
Rockman X , what annoyed me most was the fact you assumed immediately I was trolling or I'm being just a b*tch because I dislike Dante( or what he became). It's not because you like something,that the others are forbidding of dislike that same thing.Yes, they could be trivial things for you, but they aren't for me.The inverse is true too, what is important to you could be absolutely trivial or nonsense to me.Opinions, you know?
The fact of most of the faults I appointed were product of DMC4 and Anime is true.I know some of you separate Dante's character per game and I understand, since they are like oil and water, they just don't mix.But I see the four Dantes as a compendium of one virtual person, a character and not cheap imitations from one another.
When the reboot come to light for the first time, everybody was up arms with it.I was too.But it allowed me to look back to Dante as character, now less passionate about him and with rose tinted glasses.I searched for all official and unofficial material in search of Dante's nucleus, what kind of person he really was.And I met a guy completely different from what fanbase projects( even today) of him. That guy that I met was wonderful in his mistakes, humanity and the way he dealt with people, but the version, or better, the guy called "Dante" fans admire today is more of a joke.
"Fanbase" describes Dante from a Beejesus or saint to the great Casanova ever exist, as the most intelligent guy on the face of Earth to the assh*lish, so yes, Dante is now only a "urban legend" than a well constructed character he was once.
Ex:
Dante never uses profanity. This is true in Kamiya's version.In DMC1 novel Gilver made fun of Dante, since his greatest insult was " bandage boy".But latter, in English dub of Anime, he can't stop swearing( in japanese version he doesn't), so are the badly informed "fanbase" morally right when they protest against swearing, when most of them the only thing they know is that version of Anime?
Dante was to have a mindset of a child , whose blood of those who he killed tinted his hands, even if that hurts him.Now Dante balances between a retard and a pervert.Any of you imagine Kamiya's Dante doing the Lucifer's scene? Most of you don't because it doesn't fit the character, but it's DMC4( a corrupted version of a younger and somewhat naive DMC3 Dante) that reigns supreme as the ultimate, the true and only Dante.Ironically, this version is the fan favorite, not Kamiya's son Dante, not the Dante Mikami had "spread his wings" over.
Was Kobayashi guilt of this heresy?Yes, but is greatest sin ( Capcom too) was to satisfy fans, since it was fanbase who asked him to insert Trish an Lady( even if nobody didn't know how to use them), to put sexual themes( Gloria, sex can't go wrong), a bunch of characters that were good for nothing( Do I need to mention?), and a new protagonist, while potentially good, all he cares about is his friend/mother/ sister or whatever, even ignoring his "father" Credo, probably the man who most loved him in his life( Could someone please teach Capcom how human relationships work?).
That Dante, that man he became, that man I once " fell for", I hate now.It's trivial, but it is what I feel.
Rockman X , what annoyed me most was the fact you assumed immediately I was trolling or I'm being just a b*tch because I dislike Dante( or what he became). It's not because you like something,that the others are forbidding of dislike that same thing.Yes, they could be trivial things for you, but they aren't for me.The inverse is true too, what is important to you could be absolutely trivial or nonsense to me.Opinions, you know?
The fact of most of the faults I appointed were product of DMC4 and Anime is true.I know some of you separate Dante's character per game and I understand, since they are like oil and water, they just don't mix.But I see the four Dantes as a compendium of one virtual person, a character and not cheap imitations from one another.
When the reboot come to light for the first time, everybody was up arms with it.I was too.But it allowed me to look back to Dante as character, now less passionate about him and with rose tinted glasses.I searched for all official and unofficial material in search of Dante's nucleus, what kind of person he really was.And I met a guy completely different from what fanbase projects( even today) of him. That guy that I met was wonderful in his mistakes, humanity and the way he dealt with people, but the version, or better, the guy called "Dante" fans admire today is more of a joke.
"Fanbase" describes Dante from a Beejesus or saint to the great Casanova ever exist, as the most intelligent guy on the face of Earth to the assh*lish, so yes, Dante is now only a "urban legend" than a well constructed character he was once.
Ex:
Dante never uses profanity. This is true in Kamiya's version.In DMC1 novel Gilver made fun of Dante, since his greatest insult was " bandage boy".But latter, in English dub of Anime, he can't stop swearing( in japanese version he doesn't), so are the badly informed "fanbase" morally right when they protest against swearing, when most of them the only thing they know is that version of Anime?
Dante was to have a mindset of a child , whose blood of those who he killed tinted his hands, even if that hurts him.Now Dante balances between a retard and a pervert.Any of you imagine Kamiya's Dante doing the Lucifer's scene? Most of you don't because it doesn't fit the character, but it's DMC4( a corrupted version of a younger and somewhat naive DMC3 Dante) that reigns supreme as the ultimate, the true and only Dante.Ironically, this version is the fan favorite, not Kamiya's son Dante, not the Dante Mikami had "spread his wings" over.
Was Kobayashi guilt of this heresy?Yes, but is greatest sin ( Capcom too) was to satisfy fans, since it was fanbase who asked him to insert Trish an Lady( even if nobody didn't know how to use them), to put sexual themes( Gloria, sex can't go wrong), a bunch of characters that were good for nothing( Do I need to mention?), and a new protagonist, while potentially good, all he cares about is his friend/mother/ sister or whatever, even ignoring his "father" Credo, probably the man who most loved him in his life( Could someone please teach Capcom how human relationships work?).
That Dante, that man he became, that man I once " fell for", I hate now.It's trivial, but it is what I feel.
ROCKMAN X
Keyser Söze
That's clearly a case of character inconsistency.
Secondly DMC was NEVER a story centric game except for maybe DMC 1 so i don't really see any reason to look this deep into a simple game with simple characters you're implying as if Dante is a deeply dynamic game character which demands for more in-depth analysis.
Its pretty understandable that after DMC 1's original team disbanded and director left capcom dante's character gone thorough drastic personalty and cosmetic changes.
>what kind of person he really was.
He's not a real person.. DMC 3/4 dantes are the worst but that doesn't mean i hate dante as a whole i just hate how badly they wrote his character in DMC 3/4 simple.
>Dante never uses profanity. This is true in Kamiya's version.In DMC1
Or as i'd like to call it "THE ORIGINAL DANTE" and i really really hate it when people think that all dante ever was is just a joker.
>Dante was to have a mindset of a child
This is true but what can we do about bad writing ? the whole reason why i came to accept the reboot is because DMC 4's dante was out of character and obnoxious and there was seemingly no return of the older Kamiya's dante in any form of media.
>that reigns supreme as the ultimate, the true and only Dante.
Not true at all... DMC 1 is the only "True" dante in the original DMC series.
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Gel
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
I agree with you that he is not a real person, but sometimes these characters are so well made or their creator put so much love on them, that they become "real".
They were to be deep, if you believe on the media that was created surrounding DMC1. All that has gone with wind time ago.
DMC1 Dante is the "true " Dante for a few of us, maybe our mates in this forum. Most of fanbase dislike him, or ignore him or even call him boring.It's a matter of opinion and my biggest fear about the possibility of a DMC5 is having a Dante even more psychopatic and obnoxious than what we already have.
It's just ..sad.
They were to be deep, if you believe on the media that was created surrounding DMC1. All that has gone with wind time ago.
DMC1 Dante is the "true " Dante for a few of us, maybe our mates in this forum. Most of fanbase dislike him, or ignore him or even call him boring.It's a matter of opinion and my biggest fear about the possibility of a DMC5 is having a Dante even more psychopatic and obnoxious than what we already have.
It's just ..sad.
MephistoCarnival
Enigma
Towards Dante,now that you mentioned these,I see where you're going.I never considered him the ideal type of man or being,he does have some annoying traits that doesn't make you like him,but I guess that's the idea,I don't think Dante was ever designed to be liked for his morals and values,but for the image he has and maybe for some likeable characteristics.
(With the Credo issue : I believe Dante did that to him because he found his faithfulness to be ridiculous,to put yourself in danger for anyone else to the point of being killed,makes him dislike Credo.Dante was always an independent guy who worked alone,so these 'protect-with-your-own-life' ideals are silly.Anyway I'm reluctant in looking into this too much since DMC4 was a major 'what the hell is going on here?'.)
I never liked Dante that much,yet I don't really hate him...He has a place in between because I find him cool but obnoxious at the same time.
(With the Credo issue : I believe Dante did that to him because he found his faithfulness to be ridiculous,to put yourself in danger for anyone else to the point of being killed,makes him dislike Credo.Dante was always an independent guy who worked alone,so these 'protect-with-your-own-life' ideals are silly.Anyway I'm reluctant in looking into this too much since DMC4 was a major 'what the hell is going on here?'.)
I never liked Dante that much,yet I don't really hate him...He has a place in between because I find him cool but obnoxious at the same time.
Let's not be that pessimistic,hope for the better. :ermm:
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
I am sick of Dante because of way his character has been going.
Otherwise, i think he is one of gaming industry's important characters.
Otherwise, i think he is one of gaming industry's important characters.
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
Nope, nope, nope. Anime Dante IS boss. My favourite above all the others, by far.
@Gel, I know where you're coming from and where you're going with this. I hate Dante, too. He's one of those characters that I hate to love and love to hate. It's a fickle relationship, never mind lol.
I see Dante throughout all the games/novels/manga and whatnot as the same Dante. Only each different installment focuses on a different aspect of his personality. DMC1 he was gloomy and serious, DMC2 he was kinda stuck-up, DMC3 he was a loud-mouthed teenager, DMC4 he was being an annoying git, in the manga he was serious, in the anime we got to see the minor jobs he took on and how he interacts with people outside of his comfort zone, etc.
I mean if you consider the timeline, a game represented a day in his life (unless there are games that went from night to day during the course, but whatever) so even though you may be playing a game for a long period of time, it still accounts for one day in 'his world'. So maybe he's having an off day. Maybe he's actually suffering from a hangover in DMC4. Who knows? Different situations call for different reactions, as shown in the anime. I much rather prefer the variety than having him continuously stagnant and drone-like (ala DmC)
Whether he was created to be lickable or not is besides the point. It comes down to perspective and preference from the fans. Some like him better in this and that, some don't, and that's okay.
I don't think the momma excuse is used all that much in the franchise itself, it's more the fans who keep bringing it up and using it as a point. I think he's an a-hole because he's a devil, not because he lost his mum.
Just like I think Vergil is after absolute power, not because of his mum but because that's what the mindset/goal of most devils are. We saw it in DMC4 where Sanctus declared 'all that is needed is absolute power' (someone debated me on this in another thread, I can't remember which thread or who you were, but, IN YER FACE!!!), we saw it in the DMC2 novel where Chen's main goal was obtaining Sparda's power (which, if you consider Sanctus and Vergil were both after Sparda's power - absolute power = Sparda's power), and we saw it in the anime where ....B...er...whatshisface...Modius' brother wanted to battle Dante, because he was the next best thing to Sparda himself. You guys know what happens when you defeat a devil, they become a devil arm and YOU WIN.
Although I doubt Dante would have turned into a devil arm if he had been defeated as this is a trait only seen in the games, but you get the gist, right? He wanted to dominate Dante so he could have that 'power'.
I dunno. This is just how I view his character, keeping all things in context and all factors in mind. The rawest version of him, to me anyway, is the anime version of him. He plays hard-ass but he's really a softy. It sheds a lot more light on his relations to Lady and Trish, as well, rather than the games that just kind of leave you to interpret and pair them off as one would wish.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Have you played Project X Zone, Dante behaved more like his DMC1 or anime self and the only aspect of Dante's character that Gel mentioned was only in Project X Zone was him preaching about how revenge is wrong and the whole revenge aspect of Dante's character was only mentioned in DMC1 (DMC3 and DMC4 or the anime mentioned jack crap about revenge). Dante in Project X Zone was between DMC3 an DMC1 and was more focused on DMC1 Dante than DMC3 and DMC4 and the writers made it very clear which Dante was in PxZ. So when Dante was preaching about how revenge is bad despite in DMC1 he was all crazy about revenge is the writers of PxZ own fop-ah not Capcom's. If the Dante in PxZ was after DMC1 maybe DMC4 Dante, Dante preaching about revenge being wrong would make more sense since he went through it and can learn from experience that revenge is not a nice reason for living for he endured it.
Plus DMC1 Dante, was far underdeveloped and by that we only seen Dante under few circumstances in DMC1 which was despair and revenge. We never saw Dante in how he act when he is with friends, doing a regular job, happy, or any other situation. DMC1 Dante only endured 3 character aspects (revenge, hatred, and sadness). DMC1 was Dante's more darkest aspects of his life (killing his enslaved brother, avenging his mother, and Mundus generally pi$$ing him off as well as Trish reminding him of his dead mother). We've mainly seen Dante in DMC1 when angered and upset and when not upset cocky and ready to fight and story didn't do much to bring out the other aspects of Dante's character to make a full assessment of his character. Now that Dante got his revenge and dealt with his hatred and has his partner with him so how will he act if Kamiya continued DMC..........play/watch Viewtiful Joe for a more proper assessment of Dante's character when not angry.
Now with DMC3, Dante is far more developed as we seen in interact in various situations, we seen happy go lucky, we see him cocky and full of himself, a not so friendly but enjoyable sibling rivalry, we seen him upset, we seen him angered, we seen him sad, and we seen serious and it played well with the "youth" aspect of his DMC3 character. The only aspect left out of his DMC3 development was his revenge aspect (which was mentioned in the DMC3 prequel manga) and being around friends and other people/humans (DMC anime dealt with that).
Not only that most of his issues with Dante ties with other materials such as the DMC1 and DMC2 novels which was written by someone else who doesn't even work for Capcom (Shinya Goekida). So the DMC novels was Shinya's own interpretation of Dante, not Kamiya's (even if he said Shinya's image of Dante was similar to his own) or Itsuno's Dante (DMC2 included), and Shinya's version of Dante was more extreme and dark out of the many interpretations of Dante In which the novels depicts Dante slaying even humans (in the DMC1 novel for more petty reasons and the DMC2 novel for more reasonable reasons but still looked down by Chen for doing so) despite in DMC4 how Dante preaches the importance of humanity, which hello is a reference to DMC1 Dante where he discusses how "tears is human's best gift" and even preached about the importance of humanity (he was just never clear about it like in DMC4) and how else was the term "Devil's Never Cry" coined (upon which only DMC3 actually put an effort to mention the significance of the term "Devil's May Cry"). So if anything the novels even contradicted aspects of DMC1 Dante's character although DMC3 and the DMC3 manga literally retconned the first DMC novel (the DMC2 novel is still sort of canon but still no one cares about that one). Not only that Kamiya even gave the first novel an A-OK despite it having elements contradicting his own game (such as Gilver/Vergil who is a dirty, cruel fighter who uses cheap tricks and dirty tactics to get his way versus Nelo Angelo/Vergil who Dante considers an honorable man with guts and honor who shouldn't be working for Mundus. So a scumbag like Gilver somehow became more honorable and fair after being corrupted by Mundus, the king of scumbags. Vergil from DMC3 was a far more fitting prequel character to Nelo Angelo than Gilver to at least Vergil fights fair and doesn't resort to cheap tactics and at the end of DMC3 he seemed to have...almost...recognized the error of his ways and even submitted defeat by going to the Underworld and face Mundus head on with his own power. Sure he was prideful and cruel to his own allies but that translates better to Nelo Angelo than Gilver, who is 10x cruel, dirty, and larger scumbag than DMC3 Vergil) meaning Kamiya didn't read much of the DMC1/2 novel or wasn't fully clear about his own character. Dante was screwed from the beginning.
The problem with Dante over the years isn't the fact they altered him a lot or degraded his character (only misinformed fans who don't look much into the details will just come to that) but they added aspects to his character (some good and some bad it depends on you) that seem to contradict each other and when YOU have like 5 different interpretations of Dante written among different forms of media (Kamiya's interpretation, Itsuno's interpretation, Shinya's interpretation, ATLUS Nocturne interpretation, Project X Zone, and various other cameos) it just becomes a compilation or jumblef*ck of various ideas and character traits about Dante.
Its when you must sort through the materials and accept what is canon and what isn't (in your eyes) rather than go by a series of jumbled up ideas from various sources (some not even from Capcom).
To me the only canon DMC material are:
DMC3 manga-DMC3-DMC1-DMC anime-DMC4 (as well as the DMC4 manga)-DMC2.
The DMC1 novel was retconned to all hell by DMC3 and the DMC3 manga.
Cameos are removed since that is what they're cameos. They hold zero significance to the overall original series and just portrays the character however they want or its best use to highlight certain aspects of the CANON material.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I'm kinda glad people still call him Dino or Donte.
As long as this;
Has no relation to this ugly little thing;
I'm all fine with calling him Dino.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Do you like Ninja Theory?
Their first game was a little too "God of War" for my taste. But when Enslaved came out in '10, I think they really came into their own.
Maybe not commercially, but artistically at the very least.
The whole game has a clear, crisp direction, that really gives the emotional impact of the characters a big boost.
It's been compared to Prince of Persia 2008, but I think NT has far more bitter, cynical outlook on fantasy.
----------------------------------------
In '13, NT released this, DmC, their most accomplished game. I think their undisputed masterpiece is Vergil's Downfall, a portion so visually dynamic, that people probably don't pay attention to Vergil's thoughts.
But they should, because it's not just about certain interpretations on the afterlife and constantly fighting demons, it's also a personal statement about the studio itself...
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Be that as it may, it's not like they have to like DmC because of that. Like people tell me "DMC3 has such great scenery, and magnificent story that has a deeper aspect to it." But no matter what, I still give it a 6/10.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Really? There's a game out there with better combat mechanics than DMC3?
Wait, don't include anything from platinum. Just humor me here. Is Darksiders II considered better? If not, then perhaps an example that isn't from P*.
(I say this because I tried both Bayonetta and MGR, and I didn't like them as much as DMC3)
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Sorry, I should have included this picture.
I would have included the vid, but it would've been too obvious...
So... do you like Ninja Theory, Dragonmaster??
Their first game was a little too "God of War" for my taste...
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I prefer Prototype 2 over DMC3. Not only for gameplay, but the freedom to do what I want. Plus the story's way better.
EDIT:
So... do you like Ninja Theory, Dragonmaster??
Their first game was a little too "God of War" for my taste...
Until they made DmC, I had no idea who they were. But I did know what HS was and thought that looked cool. But I appreciate the work they did for DmC and now I'm interested in seeing them grow as a development team. I'm anticipating their new game as we speak.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Good answer.
*puts axe away*
Their next game looks great. I just hope it plays good, too.
