If you could rule the humans

[Loopy]

If you could be like Mundus and rule/control the humans, how would you do it? Would you even want to control the humans?

As for me, I wouldn't want to control humans. It's too much work. It's like playing The Sims games or SimCity but not being able to turn the game off.
Plus I don't like the idea that I'm controlling people in secret.

 

[V]

They probably need ruling, because they're ruining the Earth they live on and they don't even have a plan for the future, but like you I couldn't be bothered.

 

[Rayl]

If i were in Vergil or Dante's position as nephilim? I'd opt to help humanity get their **** together after the merger of Earth and Limbo but ruling them? If it were necessary to get everybody to band together and put humanity on track to being self sufficient, likely a result of having the offer rejected no doubt, then yes.

But only until a time where humanity would be able to stand on their own, i doubt i'd want anything to do with it for any longer then that.

 

[LysseC]

I'd be nothing like Mundus! I'd respect my subjects, not enslave them!
After all, humans are frail, they are like children...they need protection!
^I remember someone saying something like this, but I don't remember who... :troll:

On a more serious note, I usually agree with what Rayl said... But then there are moments in which I see people acting in unbelievably stupid ways (the political situation in my country being one of them)... It's in those moments that I agree with Ieyasu, and I would really like to take the matter in my own hands... Then I remember I am not some Saviour with all the answers, but a fallible human being like the others, and go back to Rayl's post...

 

[Cabbage Detective]

if it was like sims then everyone would be dead :troll:

 

[Loopy]

if it was like sims then everyone would be dead :troll:

If it was like Sims, humans would start a fire and then just look at the fire until the house burned. :lol: Or if it was like Sims, babies would suddenly appear.

Maybe humans in DmC should just make a lot of fires to annoy Mundus.

I'd be nothing like Mundus! I'd respect my subjects, not enslave them!
After all, humans are frail, they are like children...they need protection!
^I remember someone saying something like this, but I don't remember who... :troll: I guess Vergil:troll:

On a more serious note, I usually agree with what Rayl said... But then there are moments in which I see people acting in unbelievably stupid ways (the political situation in my country being one of them)... It's in those moments that I agree with Ieyasu, and I would really like to take the matter in my own hands... Then I remember I am not some Saviour with all the answers, but a fallible human being like the others, and go back to Rayl's post...

Very true. There are times when humans are doing stupid things, but I wouldn't like to take charge and rule humans. Like you say, humans make mistakes, and ruling humans would give the chance to make more mistakes.

Plus there is the danger of thinking only your way is right and becoming like a dictator.

 

[LysseC]

I guess Vergil.

:w00t:
I would have never thought of him. :troll:

Very true. There are times when humans are doing stupid things, but I wouldn't like to take charge and rule humans. Like you say, humans make mistakes, and ruling humans would give the chance to make more mistakes.

Plus there is the danger of thinking only your way is right and becoming like a dictator.

That's exactly the problem: on the one hand, we have the problem of dictatorship, which is not only wrong because it endangers human rights, but also because every dictator, as much enlightened and inspired by good intention as he may be, is still a fallible human being.
On the other hand, this quote clearly stigmatizes the problem of democracy:
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter (when Onecrazymonkey suggested it, I immediately made it my favorite quote... Thanks dear!)
What it really is meant to say, is that democracy is a delicate structure, which can easily become prey of the errors of people with the wrong ideas (see what happened with Hitler... He obtained power by democratic means... <-- oh, with this I mean no disrespect to any German people. What I'm trying to say is that sometimes people in a democracy can make terrible errors, even if unwillingly.). Democracy is fragile, if people are not mature enough, not educated enough to it.

Oh, btw, since we are talking about dictatorships...

See? Rick agrees. :troll:

 

[Rayl]

I'd be nothing like Mundus! I'd respect my subjects, not enslave them!
After all, humans are frail, they are like children...they need protection!
^I remember someone saying something like this, but I don't remember who... :troll:

On a more serious note, I usually agree with what Rayl said... But then there are moments in which I see people acting in unbelievably stupid ways (the political situation in my country being one of them)... It's in those moments that I agree with Ieyasu, and I would really like to take the matter in my own hands... Then I remember I am not some Saviour with all the answers, but a fallible human being like the others, and go back to Rayl's post...

Honestly? If i were in the position of having the power to enslave the entire human race in the first place, i'd be likely be, after handing control over to the human race, making sure nobody ****s up big time.

But i know full somebody will call me out on being judge, jury and executioner on the human race, having power that would elevate me beyond anything humanity could manage is a Superman story that wouldn't work well in the DmC universe.

It's a phrase i'm sure everybody has heard at one point or another, some more then others if you read Spiderman or not. "With great power there must come great responsibility" but in a situation where you've used that power to guide an entire populace back to independency or forced them to do things your way and then taken it away, people will expect different responsibilities from you.

Essentially here's the problem: Limbo merges with Earth, what do you do? Regardless of your action, there are consequences.

You choose to rule humanity, you have a HUGE responsibility in front of you, regardless of how you choose to rule them, eventually somebody will rise up against you, humanity may be happy to have somebody rule them in secret but only because what they don't know doesn't hurt them. Unless you're going the same road as Mundus then of course, but then how do you manage to build up what Mundus has? It's alot of work and i don't think even Vergil planned on doing it that way.

You choose to guide them, they likely don't give a damn about your offer because you're some random guy that the news has been saying was a terrorist, for all they know: YOU DID THIS.

You choose to hold them hostage, force your guidance upon them until such a time where humanity is now an independent race again and can deal with whatever this new merged world has in store for them.

And if the final choice is true, what do you plan on doing after you believe they're ready? Do you simply disappear and try to lead your life? Do you plan on making sure the world has listened to you?

Regardless, people are probably gonna be pretty ****ed at you for one reason or another, either for your past actions when you were being labelled a terrorist, if you made sure they listened to you or if you try to enforce your lessons on whoever has decided you're full of ****.

You'll likely have people all over the world calling you a terrorist, a hero, a demon of the worst kind or a messiah depending on how far you go.

 

[MultiBro]

I would be in power but I wouldn't control the humans at all. If anything, I would give them everything they asked of me. I would be so damn nice.

Afterwards, things would go out of control for the humans and while the chaos is among them, I can sit on my throne and say with a big grin that I killed them with kindness.

Now that is true evil.

 

[LysseC]

Honestly? If i were in the position of having the power to enslave the entire human race in the first place, i'd be likely be, after handing control over to the human race, making sure nobody ***** up big time.

But i know full somebody will call me out on being judge, jury and executioner on the human race, having power that would elevate me beyond anything humanity could manage is a Superman story that wouldn't work well in the DmC universe.

It's a phrase i'm sure everybody has heard at one point or another, some more then others if you read Spiderman or not. "With great power there must come great responsibility" but in a situation where you've used that power to guide an entire populace back to independency or forced them to do things your way and then taken it away, people will expect different responsibilities from you.

Essentially here's the problem: Limbo merges with Earth, what do you do? Regardless of your action, there are consequences.

You choose to rule humanity, you have a HUGE responsibility in front of you, regardless of how you choose to rule them, eventually somebody will rise up against you, humanity may be happy to have somebody rule them in secret but only because what they don't know doesn't hurt them. Unless you're going the same road as Mundus then of course, but then how do you manage to build up what Mundus has? It's alot of work and i don't think even Vergil planned on doing it that way.

You choose to guide them, they likely don't give a damn about your offer because you're some random guy that the news has been saying was a terrorist, for all they know: YOU DID THIS.

You choose to hold them hostage, force your guidance upon them until such a time where humanity is now an independent race again and can deal with whatever this new merged world has in store for them.

And if the final choice is true, what do you plan on doing after you believe they're ready? Do you simply disappear and try to lead your life? Do you plan on making sure the world has listened to you?

Regardless, people are probably gonna be pretty ****ed at you for one reason or another, either for your past actions when you were being labelled a terrorist, if you made sure they listened to you or if you try to enforce your lessons on whoever has decided you're full of ****.

You'll likely have people all over the world calling you a terrorist, a hero, a demon of the worst kind or a messiah depending on how far you go.

Heh. I subscribe everything. Ruling comes with a terrible responsibility, and makes you face terribly difficult tasks. In a delicate situation such as the one in DmC, even if you arm yourself with your best intention and knowledge, you are probably going to make a wrong step at some point.

Edit:
I am a political philosopher student, and I am faced everyday with such dilemmas, to which it seems to me there's still no good solution at hand, even after decades of debate.

 

[Loopy]

Heh. I subscribe everything. Ruling comes with a terrible responsibility, and makes you face terribly difficult tasks. In a delicate situation such as the one in DmC, even if you arm yourself with your best intention and knowledge, you are probably going to make a wrong step at some point.

Or like when someone starts off with the best intentions, and then they like the power and they like telling people what to do. Sometimes people don't even know they are being like that. It's a slippery slope as the saying goes.

Also, even the best leader has enemies or people who do not agree. It would be impossible to do the right thing for every person and have every person like you as a leader.

 

[LysseC]

Also, even the best leader has enemies or people who do not agree. It would be impossible to do the right thing for every person and have every person like you as a leader.

That is true. But I think that if, at the end of your "mandate" you see that important shared values such as human rights and peace have been defended, for what you could do, then maybe you can be at peace with yourself, at least a bit...

Oh, and slippery slopes... One of the most diffused arguments in philosophy... I love them,they are so tricky to counter... *starts rambling, just ignore her*

 

[Loopy]

That is true. But I think that if, at the end of your "mandate" you see that important shared values such as human rights and peace have been defended, for what you could do, then maybe you can be at peace with yourself, at least a bit...
So, like a sense of 'if you tired your best to keep peace and rights' then you can be happy with yourself? You mean that?
Very true, that maybe it's best not to try and please all people, but do the best you can.
Oh, and slippery slopes... One of the most diffused arguments in philosophy... I love them,they are so tricky to counter... *starts rambling, just ignore her*

I don't mind rambling.^_^

 

[Rayl]

If you could honestly find a way to make sure everything you wanted to establish with humanity had been established, regardless of how people think of you going out, then that would probably be the ideal outcome if you had humanity's best in mind.

It would be so very easy to just dive down that slippery slope into Mundus territory and convince yourself it would be for the humanity's best interests regardless of what you end up doing.

 

[Loopy]

If you could honestly find a way to make sure everything you wanted to establish with humanity had been established, regardless of how people think of you going out, then that would probably be the ideal outcome if you had humanity's best in mind.

It would be so very easy to just dive down that slippery slope into Mundus territory and convince yourself it would be for the humanity's best interests regardless of what you end up doing.

Besides, what Mundus did was for his own gain. In the Vergil comic, it said he was using humans souls as power. So he was only helping himself.
What he said about humans and freedom is just his excuse to behave like that while only helping himself.

 

[Rayl]

Besides, what Mundus did was for his own gain. In the Vergil comic, it said he was using humans souls as power. So he was only helping himself.
What he said about humans and freedom is just his excuse to behave like that while only helping himself.

Ah but where does what you end up actually doing to help humanity end and helping yourself begins? What if something you need to do to help progress humanity along requires something a little more along Mundus's line of thinking? I mean, so what if that one human soul you used to help further your plans for humanity can't be restored, who'll miss him?

You'll never need to do it again though... right?

 

[LysseC]

Besides, what Mundus did was for his own gain. In the Vergil comic, it said he was using humans souls as power. So he was only helping himself.
What he said about humans and freedom is just his excuse to behave like that while only helping himself.

Exactly. On the other hand, Vergil seemed to have something different in mind. My impression was that he had good intentions,and really wanted to help humans even if it meant ruling them.
Then again, he too was at risk of going down the infamous slippery slope...

 

[meg5493]

Everyone would work for my benefit

Which wouldn't be a bad thing...

 

[LysseC]

Ah but where does what you end up actually doing to help humanity end and helping yourself begins? What if something you need to do to help progress humanity along requires something a little more along Mundus's line of thinking? I mean, so what if that one human soul you used to help further your plans for humanity can't be restored, who'll miss him?

You'll never need to do it again though... right?

Slippery slope *singsongs*
I think that in these cases, each situation must be dealt with once it presents itself, with regards to more general principles...
*starts political philosophy lesson...*
Seriously, it' COMPLICATED. It depends on a potentially infinite number of side factors one cannot foresee, but must be addressed once they actually present themselves.

 

[Loopy]

Ah but where does what you end up actually doing to help humanity end and helping yourself begins? What if something you need to do to help progress humanity along requires something a little more along Mundus's line of thinking? I mean, so what if that one human soul you used to help further your plans for humanity can't be restored, who'll miss him?

You'll never need to do it again though... right?

Good point! I'm not sure where helping others becomes helping yourself. I guess it's a case of 'needs of many are greater than needs of a few'. I've heard that being said to justify that situation.

As for doing it again. If it can be done once by justifying it with 'needs of many are greater than need of a few' then maybe they would do it again with the same reason?

And then it is back to being on a slippery slope

Exactly. On the other hand, Vergil seemed to have something different in mind. My impression was that he had good intentions,and really wanted to help humans even if it meant ruling them.
Then again, he too was at risk of going down the infamous slippery slope...

I think Vergil had good intentions, but what he said made him seem like he wanted to be a king or dictator. I think he used the wrong words, but honestly thought only he could help humans.

And then even more slippery slope>_<