I don't know why people are so upset that Dante swears in this....

[Dante Redgrave]

Kratos has that area covered thank you very much and HE manages to convey more emotion and that is saying something.

...When did anything beyond raging and Kratos blaming everyone else for his murder of his own family really get considered emotional? No, I'm serious, the biggest douchebag protagonist in modern gaming, and how is he really emotionally convaying anything other than raging on the world for his own f**k up?

 

[Rayl]

His meeting with Hephaestus is a good place to look, when he tries to appeal to Kratos as a father you can clearly see him at pause for a moment before he resumes, if Kratos was nothing but revenge then he wouldn't have even blinked an eye at that. Yes it's minor, yes it's only a moment but it conveyed a fact about Kratos. Hell the mere fact that he's THAT ****ed off about the death of his family speaks volumes about how much he loved them, regardless of whatever the status of their relationship may have been. You don't see much but you DO see it.

As a side note i'd actually like to mention that Kratos is actually conveying an emotion rather then merely trying to convey an emotion and then just devolving into more of the same then before.

 

[TerrorA]

I found the acting really good.

I actually felt for Mundus when he says "Why did you kill my child?" He doesn't sound angry, just broken, crushed that the only thing he cared about was dead.

I even teared up at "I loved you, brother." Vergil's voice, and his posture, just sound so....pained. He's lost his brother due to life just hating them. The one person who he thought he could trust more than anyone just....abandoned him.

 

[m100t8s]

I watched both the Japanese and English dub and in the English dub they took out I'd say half of them if not more if I remember correctly. I speak both English and Japanese fluently so I am not basing my myself off of subs that could be inaccurate. This happens in every anime that is English dubbed, they cut back on everything. Even so your point is still valid since he does still cuss a bit in both either way. People will respond to you by saying " the anime sucked anyways" or something stupid like that to avoid the actually point you are making though so >_< However I still loved it!

The anime was awesome, I didn't have any probs with the swearing or the short fight scenes, I was hoping we get a second season, But with DmC existence, I don't think so .
I liked that version of Dante a LOT. And yeah, They'll probably say that the anime sucks anyway.

Clearly not, or they would have seen that fat tubby f**k of a prison warden ansd Dante's comment on him. ~_^

He swears like 5 times in every episode. lol.
Oh god.. If they watched DMC Anime, They'll probably hate old Dante as much as they hate new Dante hahaha.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

This isn't a case of "Getting over it" anymore, heck for me it never WAS, it was never the point of him swearing being the problem, we aren't children or some asinine parental group here so please don't try and use that as an excuse to brush aside the real issue:

Whoever wrote Dante's dialogue isn't creative and did a lazy job of it, plain and simple, there are plenty of different ways to have your character express themselves but they made Dante "dark and edgy" which might have been interesting had somebody informed NT that dark and edgy doesn't mean "spiteful douchebag" Kratos has that area covered thank you very much and HE manages to convey more emotion and that is saying something.

I'd like some emotional variance, that's all i'm asking.

I have a difference on that.

NT weren't focused on making DmC dark and edgy just from saying they want to make it more serious. They wanted to make the story as important as gameplay, and actually take it seriously in what the series does with the story. And in terms of treating the player like an adult; it could mean that DMC has always been a game that's kind of a teenage shonen otaku lover's thing. (which is also me). Most people aren't in to that whole anime thing and wants something more serious and not anime centered. Thus, DmC.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

His meeting with Hephaestus is a good place to look, when he tries to appeal to Kratos as a father you can clearly see him at pause for a moment before he resumes, if Kratos was nothing but revenge then he wouldn't have even blinked an eye at that. Yes it's minor, yes it's only a moment but it conveyed a fact about Kratos. Hell the mere fact that he's THAT ****ed off about the death of his family speaks volumes about how much he loved them, regardless of whatever the status of their relationship may have been. You don't see much but you DO see it.

As a side note i'd actually like to mention that Kratos is actually conveying an emotion rather then merely trying to convey an emotion and then just devolving into more of the same then before.

So how's that any different from Dante who cusses and is angry because the sevarity of issues he goes through on a daily basis when it comes to the constant battling against demons who want him dead, and humans who want to see him die? A normal person would actually start to feel like he can't speak loud enough with kind words so cuss words were his language growing up on the mean demon streets. I've seen kids in the hood who grew up with no mom or dad, and let me tell you, it's hard for them. They grew up to be cussing fools and people and media turn them into bad guys with no sense and disrespect for anyone, when in actuality, those guys didn't choose to be that way at all. They were forced into that life, and had no means to really get out of it.

This is one of the reasons I like Dante's swearing in DmC. It shows that his character has been through so much negativity and so much hatred and anger, that cuss words were the only words he could use to make himself feel heard by those who turn away and destroy kindness.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

In the games the only curse wods Dante said was Damn and Hell. I dont care that Dante curses in the reboot i mean if your not used to cursing by now something is wrong with your. Also some things Dante said was funny, it also caught me off guard lol.

"its on bitch"

 

[Rayl]

Why does everybody insist on ignoring my main point? Oh that's right, you have no counter argument for it, so you nitpick instead. Here's the difference between Kratos and Dante, you're not MEANT to root for Kratos, there's little to sympathise with outside what he's lost, he'd likely to be the first to agree that he has done HORRIBLE things to get what he wants. Would you go to the extreme measures that Kratos goes to for revenge? Of course you wouldn't. If you said you would then you're a terrible person by extension.

Also i don't know where you're getting the idea from that i'm against swearing but that's stopping right now because i'm not making a case against swearing, i'm pretty damn sure i've stressed that but let me spell it out for yo

This is one of the reasons I like Dante's swearing in DmC. It shows that his character has been through so much negativity and so much hatred and anger, that cuss words were the only words he could use to make himself feel heard by those who turn away and destroy kindness.

Okay no. No. You aren't building a case for yourself here. At all. Just because that might be a thing that happens in "the hood" doesn't mean it's an endearing character trait. It's a thing that's already been explored and it was obnoxious then. For what is probably the tenth time i've said it in this thread, there are other ways of expressing oneself other then resorting to the easy way out, you're building a character here not a stone wall with a large button on the front that says "PUSH HERE TO HEAR ME CALL YOU A ****ING RETARD"

And on this point: When exactly was it stated that his life was THAT bad? Because i'm pretty damn sure that at least Mundus didn't know about him until the start of the game and it wasn't ever stated that there were humans who wanted him dead. I'll concede maybe to the fact that he's been fighting demons on and off but i HIGHLY doubt that the demons have been after him constantly, if he had then i'm pretty damn sure Mundus would have known about him a LOT sooner then just the opening of the game.

Again because i can't count on my main point actually getting through, since it seems that it's a point that people are skimming over when they read my posts:

Swearing in any form of media is not something i have a problem with, least of all here. This game isn't big enough in any fashion to ruffle my feathers with the language it uses, if it were a problem my head would have exploded within the first three seconds of Captain Swearwords Big ****in' Adventure. I just expect more then that.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

In the games the only curse wods Dante said was Damn and Hell. I dont care that Dante curses in the reboot i mean if your not used to cursing by now something is wrong with your. Also some things Dante said was funny, it also caught me off guard lol.

"its on bitch"

That was my favorite one. It so urban and insulting, I love it.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

In the games the only curse wods Dante said was Damn and Hell. I dont care that Dante curses in the reboot i mean if your not used to cursing by now something is wrong with your. Also some things Dante said was funny, it also caught me off guard lol.

"its on bitch"

"He can handle it. And if he can't, I'll just have to kick his ass."

DMC4, Dante to Trish regarding Nero

But yeah, in the games, Dante's pretty PG level on the sweating, it's in the anime, novels and manga he starts getting a filthy mouth.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Why does everybody insist on ignoring my main point? Oh that's right, you have no counter argument for it, so you nitpick instead. Here's the difference between Kratos and Dante, you're not MEANT to root for Kratos, there's little to sympathise with outside what he's lost, he'd likely to be the first to agree that he has done HORRIBLE things to get what he wants. Would you go to the extreme measures that Kratos goes to for revenge? Of course you wouldn't. If you said you would then you're a terrible person by extension.

The same can be said for Dante. You're not suppose to root for Dante in the beginning because in the beginning he starts off as an asshole. He knows he's done some regrettable things in the past like fighting, killing, drug gangs, homicide, arson here and there, but he's changed himself in the end to protect the humans and find meaning in his life.



Okay no. No. You aren't building a case for yourself here. At all. Just because that might be a thing that happens in "the hood" doesn't mean it's an endearing character trait. It's a thing that's already been explored and it was obnoxious then. For what is probably the tenth time i've said it in this thread, there are other ways of expressing oneself other then resorting to the easy way out, you're building a character here not a stone wall with a large button on the front that says "PUSH HERE TO HEAR ME CALL YOU A ******* RETARD"

That's how a lot of people usually grow when living in a terrible situation in life. Who's gonna help them express things in a different way if no one wants to help? Who's he gonna turn to? The guys on the streets who cuss a lot and are ruff. The only role models he's got.

And on this point: When exactly was it stated that his life was THAT bad? Because i'm pretty damn sure that at least Mundus didn't know about him until the start of the game and it wasn't ever stated that there were humans who wanted him dead. I'll concede maybe to the fact that he's been fighting demons on and off but i HIGHLY doubt that the demons have been after him constantly, if he had then i'm pretty damn sure Mundus would have known about him a LOT sooner then just the opening of the game.

Dante's been through foster homes, jail, and correction facilities his whole life. Everyday, he's had to fight a demon here and there whether physically or mentally. Humans want him dead because o fall he's done in the past with arson, homicides, and all that violence and death he's done to demons, but in the eyes of humans, they were other human beings.

And if you read the comic book, you'd know that

(Spoiler alert)

Dante was held in a demon prison and broke out, thus leaving Mundus's eye and giving him a few days of normality before they found him again by bringing the wrong hookers with him.

Again because i can't count on my main point actually getting through, since it seems that it's a point that people are skimming over when they read my posts:

Swearing in any form of media is not something i have a problem with, least of all here. This game isn't big enough in any fashion to ruffle my feathers with the language it uses, if it were a problem my head would have exploded within the first three seconds of . I just expect more then that.

Who's saying you do have a problem? I gave my opinions and you got mad.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

"He can handle it. And if he can't, I'll just have to kick his ass."

DMC4, Dante to Trish regarding Nero

But yeah, in the games, Dante's pretty PG level on the sweating, it's in the anime, novels and manga he starts getting a filthy mouth.

Yeah i see what you mean

 

[Rayl]

Firstly: Not established in his thoughts or actions outside of a douchebag attitude, if it's established in the comic that has no bearing because you can't expect everybody going into the game to have read it, i certainly didn't. If you can't establish these things outside of that small conversation he has, what?, halfway through the game then how is the gamer that can't get his hands on the comic supposed to know? A conversation may i add that only adds that he'd had a rough childhood, he says NOTHING about being imprisoned, a canonical error or simply unmentioned doesn't excuse the fact that nothing in the game even implies this.

When that happens, you go into the game not knowing, not seeing anything but a guy going out, getting wasted and then having sex with two girls on the way back to his caravan. A caravan may i add implies that he at least has SOME sort of finance, regardless of how little it may be and therefore can't be doing THAT bad in life. Unless he stole it, which again the game doesn't imply, doesn't matter if the comic says that, it doesn't mean a thing unless something in the game states it to be canon for me.

Essentially in the end, you can say whatever you like but at the end of the day nothing of which you describe is conveyed to the player without that comic book and it all loops around back to the point that if you want to flesh out your character to the player and want to do that comic book that gives us that then you should write your exposition in the game to reflect that, i shouldn't have to go buy a comic book just so i know your pre-game events.

Oh wait, how could i be so foolish, Capcom are involved afterall, this comic is just another bit of DLC i have to pay for.

 

[EllDawn]

Firstly: Not established in his thoughts or actions outside of a douchebag attitude, if it's established in the comic that has no bearing because you can't expect everybody going into the game to have read it, i certainly didn't. If you can't establish these things outside of that small conversation he has, what?, halfway through the game then how is the gamer that can't get his hands on the comic supposed to know? A conversation may i add that only adds that he'd had a rough childhood, he says NOTHING about being imprisoned, a canonical error or simply unmentioned doesn't excuse the fact that nothing in the game even implies this.

First of all, not every story is going to tell you the main character's full background right from the start. You find out gradually so you're not over-loaded with information and want to give up on it.

Second, there were images in the game pretty much showing you what Dante went through. He might not have said straight out, "Oh yeah, I was thrown in prison a few times for killing demons everyone thought was human." That would be handing information over without the player using their own imagination. Instead there's an image showing Dante fighting the police, the aftermath of him fighting his way out of an orphanage and various other images that showed you he's had to fight through so much of his life. These were in the game, which make it safe to say that he's had to deal with demons before the events in the game. Since he says at the beginning of the game that he's been in limbo before and found his own way out, that also tells you that he's been hunted before. He might have fallen under the radar long enough to get comfortable to an extent. So, if you paid attention to the images they showed you in-game, at the start of the Virility factory mission, it's not hard to assume that he's been on the run for most of his life, he's been caught by the police and imprisoned and had to do whatever it took in order to survive. The people he was likely around probably had worse language than him. He could have had such bad language even if his life hadn't been hard. In his case, I'd say it's from all the frustration of having so little control.

In other words, they gave hints in pictures. Pretty obvious hints. They just elaborated on it in the comics. I haven't read the comics, and am not sure I will because of the art. But there was plenty of information in the game to tell you what kind of life Dante had, so his language isn't without reason.

And sorry if this, at any point, didn't make sense. I'm kind of tired right now and can't entirely think straight.

 

[ninjaa93]

Honestly,i f you use common sense most would assume dante always lived this way id why now people are like "aw he had a tough life" well i would assume these things naturally. just because we didn't see this in the original series do people assume old dante was just sitting back eating pizza his whole childhood. Ninja theory just went in and filled in the only logical past for dante but its not like from looking at the novel that he was poor ran the streets and demons(before DmC) followed him and chanted "dante!!!" everywhere.

I actually thing if the novel was maybe rewritten it would be a better reboot hell even a movie of Devil may cry , it has flaws but revisioned i believe it shows more of a journey than DmC in the end....actually they share multiply similarities.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

There are retcons and update sto be sure, but the novel's information for the canon of classic DMC still really did establish Dante's origin as a demon hunter for that continuity, since he seemed to already be in the business in teh manga and DMC3.

 

[Rayl]

First of all, not every story is going to tell you the main character's full background right from the start. You find out gradually so you're not over-loaded with information and want to give up on it.

Second, there were images in the game pretty much showing you what Dante went through. He might not have said straight out, "Oh yeah, I was thrown in prison a few times for killing demons everyone thought was human." That would be handing information over without the player using their own imagination. Instead there's an image showing Dante fighting the police, the aftermath of him fighting his way out of an orphanage and various other images that showed you he's had to fight through so much of his life. These were in the game, which make it safe to say that he's had to deal with demons before the events in the game. Since he says at the beginning of the game that he's been in limbo before and found his own way out, that also tells you that he's been hunted before. He might have fallen under the radar long enough to get comfortable to an extent. So, if you paid attention to the images they showed you in-game, at the start of the Virility factory mission, it's not hard to assume that he's been on the run for most of his life, he's been caught by the police and imprisoned and had to do whatever it took in order to survive. The people he was likely around probably had worse language than him. He could have had such bad language even if his life hadn't been hard. In his case, I'd say it's from all the frustration of having so little control.

In other words, they gave hints in pictures. Pretty obvious hints. They just elaborated on it in the comics. I haven't read the comics, and am not sure I will because of the art. But there was plenty of information in the game to tell you what kind of life Dante had, so his language isn't without reason.

And sorry if this, at any point, didn't make sense. I'm kind of tired right now and can't entirely think straight.

I never said it had to do so, what i'm getting at is that the game doesn't fill in ALL of the blanks and the ones supposedly filled in by the comic aren't even hinted at in the game, if you can't tie your comic prologue to the game then there's a fault in the writing.

Now i do recall i mentioned that he has a conversation with Kat regarding his past and while it does mention things in passing it not only could have done it better but it also doesn't mention alot of other things this comic apparently addresses as well. Another point being why some of this information couldn't be in the game in some form, i've been looking for this comic since two posts ago and i've only just found it. I've not kept a full watch on the development of the game but i like to think i kept myself informed and today is the first time i've heard of this comic.

But all of this doesn't change the fact that my original point has been derailed, i feel that Dante doesn't express himself in as many ways as i feel he should do. Apparently some people feel that the way he does is fine but i feel more should be expected from a reboot of a fairly loved character.

 

[EllDawn]

I never said it had to do so, what i'm getting at is that the game doesn't fill in ALL of the blanks and the ones supposedly filled in by the comic aren't even hinted at in the game, if you can't tie your comic prologue to the game then there's a fault in the writing.

Now i do recall i mentioned that he has a conversation with Kat regarding his past and while it does mention things in passing it not only could have done it better but it also doesn't mention alot of other things this comic apparently addresses as well. Another point being why some of this information couldn't be in the game in some form, i've been looking for this comic since two posts ago and i've only just found it. I've not kept a full watch on the development of the game but i like to think i kept myself informed and today is the first time i've heard of this comic.

But all of this doesn't change the fact that my original point has been derailed, i feel that Dante doesn't express himself in as many ways as i feel he should do. Apparently some people feel that the way he does is fine but i feel more should be expected from a reboot of a fairly loved character.

You didn't specify it was a conversation with Kat. There was that, and what was said in the fight with Barbas which did explain that Dante had been in jail, killed Sister Lamia when he escaped from the orphanage and various other things. As for the comics, they weren't about Dante, but Vergil. Going by the mood in the game, it kind of takes on Dante's POV. I'm guessing the comics are through Vergil's. I'm used to this from the type of books I read, so I guess it's something that doesn't matter to me.

As for how Dante expresses himself, he said he has trust issues. People who don't trust anyone aren't as likely to be as expressive, but there were the little things he did that told you exactly how he felt. He actually reminds me of a guy I knew with how little he expressed himself. He'd laugh and smile, but he also wouldn't really talk about himself unless he was talking to someone he trusted and then he wouldn't tell much. If you knew what to look for, you could see how much he cared about someone in how he acted toward them. The difference was subtle, but it was there. That's how Dante is.

My opinion is they used reactions from real people. If you think Dante's way of expression was kind of flat, there's my theory on him being that way. It's all a part of his character. And since I get the feeling they were trying to make the game more from Dante's view, it tends to make more sense to me.

 

[Macabre]

I'll just leave this emotional storytelling with well constructed cinematography that doesn't need the 8-year-old name-calling right here.

As for the language, Cursing, like any element of story telling, can be effective and evocative if it's used correct. A character who uses profuse inarticulate cursing as opposed to spontanious wit illustrates who they are as a character and gives us insight on their background.

The cursing, much like the abortion scene, is an element that many players resort to when criticising the game because it's readily visible and saves on taking the time to adequately articulate what exactly is so wrong with DmC. It's just like how people complained that Anakin is "whiny" in the Star Wars prequel trilogy; it's a minor part in a much bigger miasma of problems that are much harder to put into words.

And if you read the comic book, you'd know that

An extended universe is not for explaining away plot holes inside the main body of a work , they're for developing on the background of elements already present in the story. If there's an explanation for why Dante is such an insufferable prick or Vergil is an incompetent moron then it should have been in the game, not in some extracurricular supplement I need to shell out ten pounds for. Hell, at least when FFXIII didn't bother explaining anything about it's asinine storyline it had a dictionary of terms built into the game rather than demanding more money and time from me. You can go right through Mass Effect and never touch the Encyclopaedia Exposita because the story is internally consistent and for the most part clearly defined within the narrative.

I've got my problems with Dead Space, but at least the supplemental novels have done nothing more than flesh out the universe rather than retconning in crucial plot details that should have been in the games in the first place.

Bottom line: If you think having a story make sense only when you've read the supplemental materials is acceptable then you are being cheated. You shouldn't have to stand for it!

just because we didn't see this in the original series do people assume old dante was just sitting back eating pizza his whole childhood. Ninja theory just went in and filled in the only logical past for dante but its not like from looking at the novel that he was poor ran the streets and demons(before DmC) followed him and chanted "dante!!!" everywhere.

Actually the original game did a much better job of conveying certain aspects of Dante's character. For example, we know how he can afford to live in a house: He has an income as a professional paranormal investigator. New Dante is...well he...he's a rebel maaaan.

He's meant to be a bum at the bottom rung of society, scraping to get by, yet we see no evidence that he is gainfully employed or has an income of his own, so we as mature players are disconnected from him seeing as we lack that common ground. He's supposed to be living in poverty, but we see him hitting up the most exclusive nightclub in town, hammering drinks and then sleeping with two women at a time. That's not how I envision a desperate upstart kicked to the ground by society and hatefully looking up at the opulence of the wealthy; he is living the same lifestyle as they are, without care for money and concerned only with self-gratification. He isn't humanised or made to be like us in any meaningful tragic way; and that's a massive problem for a character who isn't even human yet we are supposed to identify with him.

 

[TerrorA]

Macabre, I respect your ideas and opinions, but I disagree.

In God of War, Kratos never changes. It's just three games of "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! MURDER FRENZY! RAAAAAGE! GRAAAAAA!"

At least DmC Dante goes through the same journey as DMC3 Dante, going from a hedonistic assshole to a mature protector.